Mechanimal Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Keep the exp. I'm at a great level and I dont want anymore radiated zeds. Keep all that junk. I can get it all faster elsewhere without spending 500 rounds. I've been watching this debate for pages, whilst comparing it to my own experience with all of the huge T5 POIs. What I think it boils down to, the way it is in A17 anyway, is that they are supposed to be high level challenges but lack an appropriate high level reward. I have only done the Shotgun Messiah factory on my own, I stealth killed the vast majority, but still had plenty of loud ammo draining moments, especially at the end. The other ones, like the Hospital in Diersville, I did with a group of people in MP. It felt more appropriate, like those POIs were built with that more in mind than someone taking it on alone. And it was way more fun too, albeit with a mere fraction of the loot. I always came out with far less than I entered with, but I don't care, to me it was worth it. That is however not how it should be, I agree. I think there is just something missing, and it's not ammo. How to make up for this, to give those high tier POIs a real purpose other than the experience alone? It needs something rare or uniquely powerful at the end. Not more ammo, sure some of that would be nice, but I see that as a valid cost to get there, it feels off because you get neither the ammo replaced nor anything particularly special as a reward. They do have a decent tool they could use now, the books, have a box full of them at the end. I would take on any damn T5 POI by my lonesome for that reward alone. But there is another they could implement: legendary weapons. Mods now are ok, but also inconsistant, sometimes you get jack ♥♥♥♥, and nothing feels worse when opening boxes at the end of a run like that and getting junk loot. Even adding a stack of dukes, or a vehicle, or a solar bank(since I never, ever, not once, found one in A17, at any trader, ever, even late game, this is ♥♥♥♥ed imho, fix or make another source for these, please), there are things now that would make it better. What those lack is something special in the end, I do think they need that, and maybe up the ammo a bit for Kage regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Tea, I get the following isn't at all what you meant, and I don't play MP, so it really is 'just a thought'... What if along with Group shared XP they also shared the death penalty? Could be "minor" like the dy-eee (heh) gets hit by entire numeric loss, but then, if her friends don't abondon her, the group gives up an additional percentage of their xp to the deader. So it would slow the I-didn't-die-Group down a bit, allowing the poor thing to catch up. Or maybe, "ouch! dangit Kenny!!!" where -all- the Group takes the full xp hit even if just one member dies. .... not saying this is a good idea, but ya know... some folks have advocated for harsh death penalties ---Edit: forgot to say, "Thanks MM for the reply about the bridges! " --- & err, sry in advance Roland if the above results in any mayhem Yeah I don't know if I would team with anyone if their death costs me my own XP. On the flip side XP gain is so good from teaming that yeah it will negate the death penalty anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSlayerGM Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Dude stop. There is a big difference when I haven't touched the software for a year and a half and I'm talking recording vs playing a legit game, and I've been in the trenches 5-8 hours a day for a few months. I am the 2nd fastest leveler on the team and it takes me nearly an hour to level. Who is the fastest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Kage. Can you tell us how you feel about ammo in A17, especially regarding higher tier quests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Keep the exp. I'm at a great level and I dont want anymore radiated zeds. Keep all that junk. I can get it all faster elsewhere without spending 500 rounds. The rewards don't match the trouble. I'd have it so the trader has high tier rewards for completing a t5. Like a cache of ammo, high end mods, mutated seeds, top tier weapons and armor, high end schematics and blueprints, and t5 quest only rewards. This would not only make doing t5's worthwhile it would also make them a sought after endgame activity. That's just how I see it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 I don't like death penalties in general. For me it's like kicking someone who's already on the ground. But some obviously want to be kicked and this punishment is something I can live with. I'll probably just go to the mine after a death. So I not only get the XP but also get resources at the same time. I think it is the best system so far. Before people would suicide just to teleport or get rid of infection or broken leg or low hunger. Now, they might think twice at least, or pay for it in a tangible meaningful way, and it doesn't weaken them further, so this is the best design. The A17 system encouraged doing unsafe activities or going AFK, the A16 wellness system weakened you and took too long to restore and promoted death loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 You explained the meaning already, but in my mind I still read it "mother ♥♥♥♥ing bugs" all the time Its more fun that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 16k sounds nice. Holding out for that. We are currently hand craft maps so the usable areas are attractive enough. It's just always such a hassle to reset a server on a regular basis, so we like to stretch it out as much as possible. The main reason is that many players,specially new ones, won't join any server that has 100+ days on the clock, so they become deserted and not fun to play anymore, since most or our regulars love to help new players. And since hosting is super expensive, if you want performance, most servers require donations to be kept up, which in turn needs long term players willing to invest in them. It's mostly economical really. Isn't hosting only 15 bucks a month? How is that super expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 I sure hope it does! My bases tend to always be an odd number of blocks wide, due to the door only being 1 block and I get annoyed when it's not symmetrical (habit from the minecraft days) - and the bridge always forced me to favor a side, since it could never line up with the door; because it's only 4 wide instead of 5, haha. I think most do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorMunchy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I think most do. god i cannot wait for symmetry Q.Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 My maths is perfectly fine, thank you. If each time I die I lose 25% of the xp needed to gain in level, then to gain a level I have to be able to re-gain at least that 25% xp before dying again. If I can't manage that, then I'll never increase in level again. The maths is simple and straightforward. With other forms of death penalty I can at least slowly crawl up to getting to higher level and therefore being able to buy perks that will help keep me alive, but with a cumulative direct xp loss I can't unless I can gain xp faster than I lose it. Even if the penalty was "you only gain a tenth of the normal xp for the next hour" at least you'd still be gaining it slowly and it might take you ten times as long to go up levels but you wouldn't be able to get stuck in a vicious circle of losing it quicker than you re-gain it. If you are dying that much you need to turn down the difficulty. Its not hard to stay alive, 95% of deaths only occurs when you don't properly prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 ...until you reach the stage where you die at least once per day and never make progress again. Death penalties should slow progress, but they should never completely block it or reverse it (not in this type of game, anyway). It doesn't halt anything unless you are OCD about gaining new perks like clockwork. It blocks zombies from getting any harder, and in facts makes them easier for a while. The whole world is waiting for you to get stronger before it gets stronger. If it takes 1 hour to level, you only lose 15 minutes of progress. You would need to die 4x a day every day to be stuck, and as I said in my earlier post you are not preparing properly or you need to turn down the difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 I always avoid large-scale multiplayer for another reason. I don't like being effectively "punished" for not being on 24/7, and the world advances while I'm not there, asleep or otherwise. I personally have never been a fan of logging off on day 10 and, 24 hours later, logging back in to discover that people have been playing while I was off, and it is now day 52. Day is irrelevant, did you quit playing 2 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 @faatal needs a unique avatar too! For people like me, who casually browse through this thread in search of dev responses. I added a picture months ago, but I don't think it liked it, since I've never seen it on my posts and I gather you can't see it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I added a picture months ago, but I don't think it liked it, since I've never seen it on my posts and I gather you can't see it either. You added it to the profile picture but not the avatar. Click on your profile, and we see your baby blue's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 @ Faatal: Not to add another bug to slow down the hype train and release, but Jawoodle on youtube found another easy ai exploit that needs fixing. Zombies won't walk on arrow slits if they are on the ground! He placed a floor of them, and literally had a working forcefield and could just pick them all off one by one with a sledge, even on a day 40 horde night. Obviously spitters would still create a hazard, but this is way too easy to allow in a18. That boy can sniff out an exploit a mile away. He needs to be on the early release streamer list. I added to my todo list. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 in our current build, I just tried with arrow slit blocks in ALL rotations on ground and in ground to make flush... my zombies took no issues to hop on, walk across or destroy these blocks. Nice, so maybe was fixed by other code changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 That sounds awesome! I think my issue was only doing t5 towers. I figured these were end game and I should only do them. I heard somewhere you were going to allow us to do all tiered quests once we unlock the higher ones. Like even if I'm I'm on t5 quests I can still pick t1 quests. Is that true? - - - Updated - - - Wow lol. Is this 1999? This feels alot like Everquest 1 😀 I did the hospital last night and only used about 100 rounds I think, but I used spiked knuckles on most of the zeds, it only got nasty on the roof spaces where vultures came and in 2 other spots and then the end room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Nice, so maybe was fixed by other code changes. How dare u tell me how to play MY game. If I want zombies to get stuck on arrow slits then let me do it. If you dont wanna do it then dont! Lmao... did i use this stupid argument correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I agree. That's one thing that's missing from A17: the exploration fun factor. When driving on your minibike in previous alphas, nothing compared to finding a brand new town. In A17, I and no one else I know feel the same emotions. It's just "okay". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 How dare u tell me how to play MY game. If I want zombies to get stuck on arrow slits then let me do it. If you dont wanna do it then dont! Lmao... did i use this stupid argument correctly? no doggy bone... back to your corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorMunchy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 don't know if this every got answered but is the bug with the vehicles being silent at top speed fixed? They also dont rotate the wheels either. This is all from a perspective of the passenger or a civ walking by/someone driving by. Don't think a 4x4 should be quieter than sledge hammer hitting dirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 don't know if this every got answered but is the bug with the vehicles being silent at top speed fixed? It didn't get answered, but if you see any bug fix that says something about "latency improved" or "client/server sync" then that'll probably be it, and other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Is the 25% penalty the only punishment for dying now? Other than bag runs I mean? I believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 You added it to the profile picture but not the avatar. Click on your profile, and we see your baby blue's. Thanks, I found the avatar section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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