Laz Man Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Yes INT will be my next play through, they are fun. I take them on dig quests to watch my back because some wandering horde always comes when I'm doing a simple dig quest. Omg....I never considered this use case. Junk turrets will help prevent ever getting sneaked on by a wandering horde of wolves when gathering/mining. Yesssssssssssss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I just looked at the steam reviews and there's a staggering amount of people who negatively reviewed the game only because of the now removed LBD system. I don't understand, I get that people might not want to kill zombies for xp all the time--but isn't that the whole point of this game at the end of the day? No one seems to give the perk system further analysis than "now i kill zombie to learn to cook grrr" Maybe my bias is showing because I much prefer perks and skill trees to grinding away, but I seriously don't get it. Maybe A17's perks were just that poorly implemented? I am going to be flabbergasted if there are still a significant portion complaining about no LBD on A18's released. Side note, there's a debate on the 7DTD forums about the LBD system, everyone's calling the perk system grindy... Right after giving anecdotes about how they sprinted around in their base and hit stuff for no reason to level up their skills in A16... What??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 According tho this rough overview, we require at least 200 new items and 7 unique workstations for a tire: Sounds good. A solid design is very important. Maybe my bias is showing because I much prefer perks and skill trees to grinding away, but I seriously don't get it. Maybe A17's perks were just that poorly implemented? I am going to be flabbergasted if there are still a significant portion complaining about no LBD on A18's released. There are a lot who greatly prefer the game telling them exactly what to do over doing what they want and developing their character the way they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 That is the best design pitch I've seen from any forum guy before, bravo. Wow no kidding. Kudos on the video editing and narration. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Louden Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I just looked at the steam reviews and there's a staggering amount of people who negatively reviewed the game only because of the now removed LBD system. I don't understand, I get that people might not want to kill zombies for xp all the time--but isn't that the whole point of this game at the end of the day? No one seems to give the perk system further analysis than "now i kill zombie to learn to cook grrr" Maybe my bias is showing because I much prefer perks and skill trees to grinding away, but I seriously don't get it. Maybe A17's perks were just that poorly implemented? I am going to be flabbergasted if there are still a significant portion complaining about no LBD on A18's released. I actually miss the LBD (i was originally ok with it changing) so i use mods that add it back in (Darkness Falls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I don't understand, I get that people might not want to kill zombies for xp all the time--but isn't that the whole point of this game at the end of the day? No, it's survival and crafting. Killing zombies should only be a (small) subset of the survival aspect, and unfortunately it dominates it. Not what I signed on for, but hopefully I can mod it to my liking later on. -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Sounds good. A solid design is very important. There are a lot who greatly prefer the game telling them exactly what to do over doing what they want and developing their character the way they want. The game didn't tell you what to do. It just rewarded you based off what you did with something specific tied to what you did. You are really dismissive of other people play styles at times. TFP has decided LBD isn't the way they want their game to play? Fine. I like games with it and I like some games without it. But there is no reason to be so consistently condescending about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 ok this is my last public response here lol. I'm impressed by the wisdom you have shown in ever statement you just made (shocked). I salute you, its very rare that one sees this kind of well articulated response on the internet these days. I have really injoyed reading your thoughts, opinions and ideas on verious subject matters that you, along with a few others in this section of the forums have shared. Bravo for reading every single post my dude, that is not easy. I've been doing it for what, last 2 months or so I have been active and its not easy. I find myself having to every day make an effort not to just explode at some of the stupid, idiotic, unfounded and combative posts I see =). This is why I prefer "lurkin" on the forums. Not including the bug reporting threads, i'll always post there when needed, that are created with every update. Just reading posts is a lot easier than being part of the talk and exercising self restraint. #Lurkin' #ForumStealthMode 7000 hours damn, I'm only at maybe 3000. Did not actually start devoting 80-100 hours a week playing until about A15. The game is still kinda feels new for me since I had a late start. I agree with your entire post, it was perfectly stated. *fist bump* I wonder if the majority of those who are knowledgeable and speak with wisdom, we know who they are, here on this forum all have thousands of hours clocked. EDIT: *strokes beard while thinking* It would be fascinating to see the results of a statistical analsis. *dips out for good now* lol He'll be back...😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I just looked at the steam reviews and there's a staggering amount of people who negatively reviewed the game only because of the now removed LBD system. I don't understand, I get that people might not want to kill zombies for xp all the time--but isn't that the whole point of this game at the end of the day? No one seems to give the perk system further analysis than "now i kill zombie to learn to cook grrr" Maybe my bias is showing because I much prefer perks and skill trees to grinding away, but I seriously don't get it. Maybe A17's perks were just that poorly implemented? I am going to be flabbergasted if there are still a significant portion complaining about no LBD on A18's released. Side note, there's a debate on the 7DTD forums about the LBD system, everyone's calling the perk system grindy... Right after giving anecdotes about how they sprinted around in their base and hit stuff for no reason to level up their skills in A16... What??? The issue was that you could in the past, craft 1000 stone axes and then buy perks that would open up making concrete. It was incorrectly labeled "level by doing", and although the REAL issue (being able to buy perks to make concrete because you spammed stone axes) was never really addressed, they found it easier to scrap "lbd" entirely. ...which is why a lot of us poke fun that they'd rather remove a system than fix it. The irony is that now it's "kill 1000 zombies and unlock concrete". . /History lesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaranth Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I just looked at the steam reviews and there's a staggering amount of people who negatively reviewed the game only because of the now removed LBD system. I don't understand, I get that people might not want to kill zombies for xp all the time--but isn't that the whole point of this game at the end of the day? No one seems to give the perk system further analysis than "now i kill zombie to learn to cook grrr" Maybe my bias is showing because I much prefer perks and skill trees to grinding away, but I seriously don't get it. Maybe A17's perks were just that poorly implemented? I am going to be flabbergasted if there are still a significant portion complaining about no LBD on A18's released. Side note, there's a debate on the 7DTD forums about the LBD system, everyone's calling the perk system grindy... Right after giving anecdotes about how they sprinted around in their base and hit stuff for no reason to level up their skills in A16... What??? I liked LBD and I miss it, felt good to see you rank up when you've been running or mining etc. But at the same time, A18 looks like it is improving the A17 skill system and will be creating unique builds and play styles, so I may ultimately end up preferring the A18 system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unlike them Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 For A18 I'm gonna try Roland's 0xp mod. Zombies should not be hunted for xp, they should be an obstacle, a threat. Roland's idea seems good on paper, I hope it plays great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 What? Hell no! Why would I ruin people streams like that? =P You are royalty now. MM said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadPlayer Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Yes polymer is a very generic material, we spent hours deciding on the proper words so we an abstract as many recipes as we can from it. People who keep asking about paper, the better shells are now crafted from polymers. So, there are 2 different shotgun shells? What about the slugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 According tho this rough overview, we require at least 200 new items and 7 unique workstations for a tire: [ATTACH=CONFIG]29219[/ATTACH] Yep, realism fails in most design debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 Yeah yeah, I work with the dude, so I know more than most how he can be. Just ask him sometime about accounting and vehicle travel expenses as they relate to profit margin... BTW my offer in your PM still stands. I want to talk lifting programs with you sometime... -A Oh I'll see if I can find it lol. I don't read PMs and usally its chock full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 We're recording some temp unprofessional stuff for her, so don't judge too harsh. Pokket for Trader Jen! Pokket for Trader Jen! Pokket for Trader Jen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Yep, realism fails in most design debates. Yes, good thing no one was advocating for realism in any recent discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 The game didn't tell you what to do. It just rewarded you based off what you did with something specific tied to what you did. You are really dismissive of other people play styles at times. TFP has decided LBD isn't the way they want their game to play? Fine. I like games with it and I like some games without it. But there is no reason to be so consistently condescending about it. You're taking this way too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 will the random encounter feature in A18 activate even if i stay at my base? sometimes i dont feel like going to the next big town to loot 3 houses and then be forced to come back cause lack of space (i know we have the 4x4 but motorbike is more versatile) but i would love it if those ♥♥♥♥ers and their moms come and challenge me big time now and then Random encounter system isn't in A18... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynq Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 One problem I have seen on this thread is that 99.99% of posters have already purchased the game and played it though multiple alphas, with 16 and 17 bringing about huge game changes. Players who have played a certain alpha for hundreds of hours will obviously feel attached to certain mechanics present in that alpha, such as learn by doing. Well, LBD stinks, and I am glad it's gone. For instance, in A16, I set up a rotation of forges with large excesses of clay in each, along with just enough iron to craft anvils. I would rotate between each forge just as the anvil finished crafting so that I could get the exp while simultaneously smelting the anvils back into the forges. I used this trick to gain huge amounts of total levels and skill points that I spent on perks, or whatever. My character was getting stronger in a very unrealistic and stupid way. In short, I am glad that this exploitable feature has been banished forever, and that madmole/TFP realize that the game should not cater to older players just because they liked certain old features. (Plus they already have your money?) Speaking of which, I have always enjoyed playing the new updates just to see what was new. I paid for the game once, but I feel as though I have gotten multiple different games worth of playtime. Every single new alpha, I play to the endgame and test out all of the new features. On occasion, I do 2-3 playthroughs a few weeks/months apart. Part of the reason why I only did a few playthroughs per alpha is because back in those older alphas, there really was no diversity in the progression, besides A17 which allowed you to choose a different subset of guns to spend your points on. I have always been a min-maxer, so I can't stomach playing in a totally inefficient way just to play. With talk of A18 having multiple balanced paths to progress your character, I am excited to see what kind of mileage I can get out of it. Finally, with all of the dissenting opinions I have seen on this thread, I feel like I should send out my vote of confidence for the vision and direction of the game. Specifically, killing zombies for experience and progression. 7DTD is a world filled with zombies, and they control most of the map and loot. As a survivor, you can either crawl around and shamefully pick up the little scraps of loot when no zombies are looking (lame), or you can go in there and beat the hell out of every zombie you see and TAKE everything you want from the apocalypse, getting revenge on the zeds that ruined your peaceful life. As long as I can support the core mechanics and vision of the game, every other minor little problem I have can be ignored. For example, crafting recipes that might not be 100% realistic, or unpolished areas of the game which will almost definitely be polished at some point. And the game has been improving by more and more with each passing alpha. From everything I have seen so far, Alpha 18 is the greatest version of the game. Now the only question is, 10/4 or 10/7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 According tho this rough overview, we require at least 200 new items and 7 unique workstations for a tire: [ATTACH=CONFIG]29219[/ATTACH] I used to watch that show "How its made" and yeah its pretty amazing some of the stuff that goes into making even the simplest things. - - - Updated - - - Omg....I never considered this use case. Junk turrets will help prevent ever getting sneaked on by a wandering horde of wolves when gathering/mining. Yesssssssssssss! I'll stick a few outside the door of the poi I am looting myself, right smack in the zombies way so they have to dig around them or above them to get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 The concept of learn by doing is solid; your example of forge use to maximize xp just highlights one of the implementation flaws that needed to be fixed. The whole system didn't need to be scrapped. What's done is done; I doubt it's coming back except by modder magic. -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 It's new, just not widely used. Cooked that up with the lead programmer. My test case was a POI plopped into Navezgane in the most hamfisted way possible, halfway into a mountain. All air blocks inside it were the new terrainfiller so the "natural terrain" flowed around and through the POI, filling all spaces, resulting in a half-buried POI. The obvious use case are bridges where you can adapt to a riverbed that can be at just about any angle without leaving a square cut or gap. But that's only the tip of the dirt pile. A18 is all about polish and making features work better and smoother. There are tons of new features but most of them are small scale individually. Does that mean what I think it does? That you could go in and actually dig out the terrain around/within the existing prefab walls? That's awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarod_Silverstar Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Everywhere but wasteland, but in the future it might be just forest. Depends how harsh we want weather and other biomes to be. Ooohhhhh. A hint that weather may actually play a role in survival again one day. Nice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Yes, good thing no one was advocating for realism in any recent discussion. If the game did get too realistic i'd probally lose interest in it, like I tried project zomboid and refunded it because it was just to annoying with all the micro-management and all the small steps to do anything. Lets not get started about the mental health part of the game either as thats another whole can of worms back when I refunded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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