Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Tin]

Why not just use a flare-gun?

You get the quest.

Trader gives you (the initial person who accepted the quest) a flare-gun.

Tells you it is only good for 1 shot.

Tells you to fire it off in the marked area (painted circled 'X' on the ground), so they know you made it to the place.

Fire off the shot, it starts the quest.

[Dimpy]

There are no performance gains although you can limit the extra calculations to a certain extent.

 

The feature that this mechanic would allow is to run something like a sewer or cave under an office building without it collapsing upon spawn. It would also solve a lot of problems the earlier iterations of caves had where they would collapse as you walk over them.

 

So basically you want a column of vertically adjacent blocks to have more horizontal load than the sum of their parts? That would make deeply underground tunnels more stable, but it seems like it would be easier just to program the tunnels to generate only where they won't collapse.

[Mechanimal]

Why not just use a flare-gun?

You get the quest.

Trader gives you (the initial person who accepted the quest) a flare-gun.

Tells you it is only good for 1 shot.

Tells you to fire it off in the marked area (painted circled 'X' on the ground), so they know you made it to the place.

Fire off the shot, it starts the quest.

 

Also an idea worth considering, though I'm pretty sure we're getting into A19 talk now, soon anyway, but this will give TFP some good options to consider for when the time comes.

[Dunkurtin]

+ No Learn by Doing in A18

 

Cool. Guess I'll check back when A19 is on the horizon.

 

Considering A17 never managed to hit the same numbers as A16 maybe another subpar version will finally see a return to the better system.

[FileMachete]

I think Mechanimal is onto something on the 5 to 1 meat; an Icon and Name change.

 

Have the Icon look like a few hacked, smallish, pieces of meat and call them "Meat Pieces" or "Chunks of Meat".

Heck make it look like a few strips of bacon, I mean -nobody- wants to see _1_ piece of bacon on their plate

 

There are no performance gains although you can limit the extra calculations to a certain extent.

 

The feature that this mechanic would allow is to run something like a sewer or cave under an office building without it collapsing upon spawn. It would also solve a lot of problems the earlier iterations of caves had where they would collapse as you walk over them.

 

*Note: I'm not asking this question to ask for caves, I'm simply curious about how the SI works.

 

SI works from bedrock up, right? But I'm assuming SI only gets calculated in some left-righ, north-south grid, or on 'changes' or chunk loading, and only where there are blocks that need the SI calc'd.

 

So the scan finds a player placed block, only rarely is that block touching bedrock. So the SI calc, right now, drops down one square at a time to see if there's a load bearing block below, if yes, keep going down a block, repeat all the way to bedrock.

 

If there isn't a load-bearing block at any point then that stack is marked 'no vert support', and relies on side support.

(likely don't have that all correct, but enough for this to make sense)

 

So might it be possible for the SI 'scan down' bit to instead check if there were say 6 blocks of non-player placed 'rock', and call that fully supported?

[alchemi2]

Personally I don't mind the bouncing ! but it is a bit cheesy, Perhaps it could just be replaced with a simple NPC (like a trader model) who you just speak too to start the quest, surely that is just a simple model change and the easier solution.

[SrslyGTFO]

Cool. Guess I'll check back when A19 is on the horizon.

 

Considering A17 never managed to hit the same numbers as A16 maybe another subpar version will finally see a return to the better system.

 

Just back from the salt mines?

[archergod]

I suggest you inmediately cease testing so that the amount of MFs doesn't increase anymore.

Seems to be the only way to speed up

the KRAKEN

 

People are starving. MadMole is cooking a build almost every day, only to eat it alone!

You are soooo mean!

 

Unfortunately that is not how it works. the more they test and fix bugs is less we get irritated. Consider if they didn't find those 62 bugs, and you have to encounter them in your game? Will you love game ? They will find it and fix it. Forever .

[theFlu]

For the current quest - exclamation point discussion, I'll just quote the Mole from couple weeks back:

 

We might go with a faction flags for the quest marker, players are really stupid so we chose something super obvious for the first version.

 

Faction flag... or maybe a group of item-blocks being able to carry a "flag emblem" for factions, like..

- a dropped bag, or a jacket

- some weaponry (broken bat?)

- maybe even a chopped off limb, the clothing could have faction colours..

 

Could be tied to the quest level (harsher items, harder quest) or just thematic for the quest type (bags for fetches, weapons for clears) .. or just random.

 

Tin's idea of a flare gun sounds all right, although feels weird when you're not trying to get back-up with it.. maybe an "address note" in your bag - checking if you're in the right place just before risking your life?

[SrslyGTFO]

Personally I don't mind the bouncing ! but it is a bit cheesy, Perhaps it could just be replaced with a simple NPC (like a trader model) who you just speak too to start the quest, surely that is just a simple model change and the easier solution.

 

So, an NPC that is immune to zombies? That might be a bit strange.

 

I like the idea of simply standing within a radius around the POI starting a countdown to the reset. That way, you can leave the area to stop the timer, and if you have precious stuff in the POI, just cancel the quest. No POI with an active bedroll or LCB should be used for quests.

[Dunkurtin]

Just back from the salt mines?

 

This is the salt mine.

 

I left when it was clear the devs wouldn't listen because "we won't know for a while how the community feels".

8 months later, the stats are in. A17 is the first version that never exceeded the numbers of the previous version. Capping out at ~85% before rapidly dropping back to pre update numbers.

Now that i've come back, seen theyre still pursuing the direction of a simplified casual experience, left my feedback, I will be once again leaving the salt mines to the Yes men fanbois.

[MechanicalLens]

deleted

[MechanicalLens]

Are you talking about the quest itself activating, or the marker appearing? I assume the former (since the latter doesn't really solve what the other forum users are complaining about, which is the marker's design).

 

If so - I am against this, for one reason.

 

Often, you use POIs as houses or bases. Many POIs are not revealed as quest POIs until later game stages. So, if you've set up shop in one of these, and you've lived there for a while - suddenly your base for the past 40 ingame hours has been reset (i.e. replaced) and all your stuff is gone.

 

EDIT: It may be true that the quest system ignores POIs with either land claim blocks or bedrolls in them. Still, this can lead to a lot of stuff being lost - say, if you set up a chest outside the structure but within the POI boundary.

 

With the floating icon, you can at least reject the quest or get all your stuff out before starting it. You couldn't do that with your suggestion.

 

All you would have to do is look on the map and see where the quest is located. If the location is inconvenient to the player, then they could just remove it from their quest line. If the POI in question happens to be your base, then that's not bad game design, that's just a mistake on your part, in my opinion.

[MechanicalLens]

Disclaimer: This post is just me "shedding some thoughts", so don't take it seriously, nor will I state my position on this feature suggestion.

 

I find it somewhat odd that after failing a quest (or two, or three for some players...), that the traders are not in any way, shape, or form doubtful of your capabilities. For realism's sake, maybe their prices would increase after failing some sort of quest (maybe by a debuff of some kind?). But on a gameplay's perspective, this could confuse and frustrate new players. Therefore, although I suggest that this idea be left in the dust, I thought it was semi-relevant enough to bring up.

[RipClaw]

I think it should just activate when you get to within 50m of the location. That allows plenty of time for other players to join your party as the nearest quest destination I've seen is in the 200m range. It also means you won't be able to witness the change. By time it comes into view it is reset for the quest. It also means you won't be able to do the POI before manually activating a rally point to reset it for the quest.

 

Automatic activation at 50m is the ticket.

 

Will be interesting to see if players understand the quest system without the exclamation mark.

 

Even with an exclamation mark some players don't understand what the game wants from them. They ignore anything that is not right in front of them.

[Mechanimal]

I think Mechanimal is onto something on the 5 to 1 meat; an Icon and Name change.

 

Have the Icon look like a few hacked, smallish, pieces of meat and call them "Meat Pieces" or "Chunks of Meat".

Heck make it look like a few strips of bacon, I mean -nobody- wants to see _1_ piece of bacon on their plate

 

Ah, and you too are onto something, even a small name and/or visual tweak, like you mentioned, to what is there now would go a long way, def be less confusing for the noobs that way.

[Lemmers]

All you would have to do is look on the map and see where the quest is located. If the location is inconvenient to the player, then they could just remove it from their quest line. If the POI in question happens to be your base, then that's not bad game design, that's just a mistake on your part, in my opinion.

 

It's a much bigger problem when you play with other people. You might start turning a POI into a base before logging off for the day, only for your buddy to start playing a few hours later and unknowingly reset the POI for a quest. The more people who play on a server, the higher the odds of this happening. Experienced players will know to land-claim their base, but newbies won't until they learn the hard way.

 

I think to be safe, any player-made storage chests should also block POI resets. Hopefully with a mature quest system it will automatically detect invalid POIs, select an unclaimed one and immediately reset it if needed when accepting the quest which would solve a lot of these issues as well as increasing immersion.

[MechanicalLens]

Will be interesting to see if players understand the quest system without the exclamation mark.

 

Even with an exclamation mark some players don't understand what the game wants from them. They ignore anything that is not right in front of them.

 

Considering that 99.9% of the population are muppets (just being honest), I would not be the least bit surprised if the majority of the 7D2D playerbase wouldn't know what to do if even a great beacon that erupted blinding light into the sky was right in front of them. I honestly believe there is no helping them. Just my opinion, but the bouncing exclamation points are required.

[Aldranon]

Considering that 99.9% of the population are muppets (just being honest), I would not be the least bit surprised if the majority of the 7D2D playerbase wouldn't know what to do if even a great beacon that erupted blinding light into the sky was right in front of them. I honestly believe there is no helping them. Just my opinion, but the bouncing exclamation points are required.

 

The other 0.1% of the population are Lilliputians. Just being honest.

[Ornias]

The other 0.1% of the population are Lilliputians. Just being honest.

 

I was thinking Oompa Loompa's, but close enough.

[meganoth]

Personally I don't mind the bouncing ! but it is a bit cheesy, Perhaps it could just be replaced with a simple NPC (like a trader model) who you just speak too to start the quest, surely that is just a simple model change and the easier solution.

 

As someone else said, this perosn would have to be invulnerable, also regularly meeting people standing idly around would be just as bad as a jumping exclamation mark.

 

For me the best idea is still the mailbox. Fits almost any poi (except for caves), can be made shining if some obvious visual key is needed. Also in every quests description there would just be the sentence: "When you are there, look into the mailbox for further instructions". The mailbox then activates the quest and a note with "instructions" inside says:

 

"Don't ♥♥♥♥ this up!"

 

 

I think to be safe, any player-made storage chests should also block POI resets.

 

Which would allow jokers to make whole towns into quest-free areas. There is a perfectly workable solution with bedrolls and land-claim blocks (if we ignore bugs), if people can't handle that they should play minecraft.

[meganoth]

This is the salt mine.

 

If you don't have some silly reservation against mods you could play Darkness Falls. A very good mod even though I don't like LBD and sticks. I'm quite sure vanilla will stay a salt mine for you.

[The Gronk]

The other 0.1% of the population are Lilliputians. Just being honest.

 

I thought the other 0.1% would have been severely overworked puppeteers. Just being practical :-)

[Aldranon]

I thought the other 0.1% would have been severely overworked puppeteers. Just being practical :-)

 

Its the other 50% that are the puppeteers. Yes, that's 150%... but we are talking Muppets and Lilliputians, so it all fits rather nicely.

[FileMachete]

For a Quest starter marker how about a smoky campfire?

 

Think one of the 'issues' with the marker is that not all of the POI starting points are in the front, so kinda need something that stands out, and, ideally, would be noticable from any side of the POI.

 

For the burnt forest biome a slight bit of color could be added if needed.