Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Mechanimal]

The fact that a wood frame uses the same amount of wood it takes to make 4 arrows must really drive you crazy then

 

No, don't even notice, ffs it's wood, we get that it huge stacks, find it all over, use it all over, it is a very different resource to both use and acquire. The meat/food stuff is very different, far more rare and precious, so having even one useless piece when you are hungry is just super ridiculous and frustrating. I never get stuck with weird useless stacks of wood, it never gets low enough. Maybe I would not notice as much if I had not played earlier versions where 1 meat was 1 meat and it was simple and straight forward as it should be. But when I noticed many noobs joining into A17 it became clear that it wasn't just me, none of them thought it made any sense either, all I could tell them was that it was temporary(hopefully a prediction and not a lie.). Especially due to the fact that the icon for 1 meat looks the same as the icon for 1 cooked meat even thought it needed 5 to make it? Even a dang icon change to represent it visually would help if nothing else. Yes I am nitpicking, we are still in alpha phase, I mainly just hope something gets done to make better sense out of it by the time it goes gold.

[Tin]

Most likely scaling. Huntsman does not work well with 1 meat as a 20% increase cannot be done. With 5 meat per serving it becomes much simpler to balance and play with boosts like Huntsman.

 

I don't understand the hate for the larger numbers.

 

I'll just say "So?" about the "Huntsmen" perk.

How many animals would you think only drop 1 meat? Chicken, Rabbit, and Snake, you get what you get. So you need to invest 2 more points to get 2 meat from them.

 

What wrong with needing to invest more in the perk to get that result?

 

Ah, is a good point, for scaling with those bonuses, however, if a deer gave 5 meat then a 20% boost would simply yield 6 meat, so I think it is still possible. But before they changed it 1 meat was 1 meat, now I need 5 pieces to make 1 and aside from how irritating that is, especially since the icons in no way represent the difference, it also leaves me with awkward piles of useless meat. It is annoying to have 50 meat and think that sounds awesome until you cook it down to 10. Anyway, although that point is valid, I still think going back to simpler, more direct, amounts makes more sense. Is not a game breaker, just a QOL thing, feels like the system went back to an older less graceful method in A17. I'm gonna play the F out of A18 regardless, but it will still feel more like a step backward than forward if they leave it as is.

 

Edit* I do think it was worth experimenting with in A17, but I hated it, my son thought it was "really dumb", and in an MP game I played with some noobs a few weeks ago each and every one of them thought it was stupid. I told all of them this is Alpha, where these systems are played with and tweaked, and that I highly doubted it would stay this way. I could be wrong, maybe it will stick, if so my opinion as a designer is that the change is more of a devolution than a refinement. Was a solid B before, now I'd give it a D, maybe a C-, and hope for a refinement of some kind at some point. It's like they forgot about KISS in this situation, usually they go that way, for the better.

 

And at least for me it's not 'hate', its more of 'why?!'.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

The fact that a wood frame uses the same amount of wood it takes to make 4 arrows must really drive you crazy then

 

Yes! yes it does

[Dreyseth]

Most likely scaling. Huntsman does not work well with 1 meat as a 20% increase cannot be done. With 5 meat per serving it becomes much simpler to balance and play with boosts like Huntsman.

 

I don't understand the hate for the larger numbers.

 

It would quite easily be accomplished if an additional decimal place is maintained behind the scenes. A 20% bonus would mean that every 5th meat killed would be harvested as 2 meats.

 

This would allow more granular boosts of any percentage amount, as well as variability in base harvest amounts if desired

[PO_Man_3849]

I too am no fan of the bouncing holographic exclamation point, thought it was just a temporary placeholder, but no. Sure I get used to it, but it still sticks out way too much, like it does not belong.

 

My suggestion would be to make an existing object, or maybe something new, activate the quest, same as the exclamation does now. One great one would be the mailboxes out in front of most POIs, then just add one to POIs without them... I mean everyone, every building, does get mail, so it makes plenty of sense. Then if nothing else just make it stand out to the quest holder a bit more when active to help identify it, like a gentle throbbing glow or something, just enough, no holograms, this ain't the Matrix.

 

I think using the mailboxes is worth serious consideration the more I think about it, plus they're already there for the most part.

 

PS: please no food spoilage, just my opinion, but it is still the biggest reason I hated Ark, and Atlas, and other survival games that just annoyed me far more than challenged me. We have plenty to deal with, though I wouldn't mind the meat count going back to normal numbers again, like 1 meat is 1 meat, not 5 meat is 1 meat, who the F did that and why. Stop it, I can think of no good reason whatsoever for that serving any purpose other than confusion. Deer would be 4 or 5 meat, not 20 or 25 to make 4 or 5. Rabbits like 1 or 2, fine. Some fancy meals could require 2 meat, but most all others should be 1 to 1 ratio, I will never understand why that devolved.

 

I have faith that the bouncing exclamation point is a placeholder.

 

I'm hoping it will be replaced with an NPC, when you arrive to the quest location you converse with the NPC and it says... "are you here to take care of my zombie infestation?" (Or other scenarios) You could answer and have the option of making sure your teammates are grouped up before it starts.

 

Would definitely be more immersive than a cartoon exclamation point?

[Mechanimal]

I'll just say "So?" about the "Huntsmen" perk.

How many animals would you think only drop 1 meat? Chicken, Rabbit, and Snake, you get what you get. So you need to invest 2 more points to get 2 meat from them.

 

What wrong with needing to invest more in the perk to get that result?

It's not hate either, its more of why?!

 

 

 

 

And at least for me it's not 'hate', its more of 'why?!'.

 

Yeah, my "hate" is due to the "why" because it felt fine before. And I do not think it was necessary to allow room for hunting buffs, that can/should be done using the simpler system, imho. I do eventually get used to it, but it still nags at me while playing sometimes, then the noobs being bewildered by it too is what makes me feel like bringing it up again, it never needed explaining before, and that should matter to the devs, I'd think.

[Mechanimal]

I have faith that the bouncing exclamation point is a placeholder.

 

I'm hoping it will be replaced with an NPC, when you arrive to the quest location you converse with the NPC and it says... "are you here to take care of my zombie infestation?" (Or other scenarios) You could answer and have the option of making sure your teammates are grouped up before it starts.

 

Would definitely be more immersive than a cartoon exclamation point?

 

Yes I too think it is just a placeholder, albeit an immersion wrecking one, it's temporary, and that's ok for now, sure. I didn't even think of the NPC thing, good idea, although I am not sure how that would work if other players got there before the quest holder. Maybe they will end up with a small variety of in-world object/NPC options. So most of the Tier 1 to 3 house crawls and such could just use the mailbox, others could use an NPC, maybe larger buildings would have something like those large blue MAIL bins, etc. Anything but a bouncing hologram, but yeah, I don't think it was ever meant to be permanent, iirc from A17 dev forums.

[PO_Man_3849]

In that scenario, if a player not associated with that quest saw the NPC and tried to interact with it, it would just say "sorry I'm not interested in you, move along", or possibly the NPC would only be visible to the players in the group that have the quest?

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I too am no fan of the bouncing holographic exclamation point, thought it was just a temporary placeholder, but no.

 

When it was first introduced, I commented that I didn't like it and Roland gave me a sarcastic reply telling me it was just a temporary placeholder and that I shouldn't assume it will be in the finished game.

 

So I'm taking him at his word (he knows the devs' plans better than we do) and assuming it won't be in the finished game.

[Doombringer101]

I'll just say "So?" about the "Huntsmen" perk.

How many animals would you think only drop 1 meat? Chicken, Rabbit, and Snake, you get what you get. So you need to invest 2 more points to get 2 meat from them.

 

What wrong with needing to invest more in the perk to get that result?

 

 

 

And at least for me it's not 'hate', its more of 'why?!'.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Yes! yes it does

 

Haha I already knew it makes you crazy Tin

[Ti2xGr]

I have faith that the bouncing exclamation point is a placeholder.

 

I'm hoping it will be replaced with an NPC, when you arrive to the quest location you converse with the NPC and it says... "are you here to take care of my zombie infestation?" (Or other scenarios) You could answer and have the option of making sure your teammates are grouped up before it starts.

 

Would definitely be more immersive than a cartoon exclamation point?

 

I'd like to see a Gravestone marker with a glowing red crack that looks like a 7 on it.

[Beelzybub]

I'd like to see a Gravestone marker with a glowing red crack that looks like a 7 on it.

 

Much better, I agree.

[Guppycur]

When it was first introduced, I commented that I didn't like it and Roland gave me a sarcastic reply telling me it was just a temporary placeholder and that I shouldn't assume it will be in the finished game.

 

So I'm taking him at his word (he knows the devs' plans better than we do) and assuming it won't be in the finished game.

 

"Temporary placeholder" is tfp talk for "that's it" in a lot of cases.

[Callum123456789]

I know this is a random thing but who came up with the name the fun pimps? I have always wondered this

[Dimpy]

Has any thought been given to providing the SI system with the concept of an arch? Not the shape, the engineering principle. You can redirect a lot of force around an object or space with the correct use of arches. I know it'll make SI calculations a little slower but with a bit of forethought you can avoid a lot of the calculations where they're unneeded.

 

I mean, arches are already a thing you can do in the game and they significantly increase structural stability. Right now however, the most efficient shape is an exponential curve, while in real life I believe it's a parabola. This might be due to the fact that the SI system has no force redirection; force always travels in taxicab geometry. Maybe there would be a way to fudge it with weird math, but how exactly would could you leverage this for performance gains?

[The Gronk]

"Temporary placeholder" is tfp talk for "that's it" in a lot of cases.

 

To be fair, if the community kick up enough of a fuss things sometimes get replaced. In this case it's the replacement of a single mesh, possibly with a spinny animation, not exactly the most time consuming of jobs.

 

Can I interest anyone in a torch? Perhaps a pitchfork to go?

[The Gronk]

snipped for space

 

There are no performance gains although you can limit the extra calculations to a certain extent.

 

The feature that this mechanic would allow is to run something like a sewer or cave under an office building without it collapsing upon spawn. It would also solve a lot of problems the earlier iterations of caves had where they would collapse as you walk over them.

[Mechanimal]

To be fair, if the community kick up enough of a fuss things sometimes get replaced. In this case it's the replacement of a single mesh, possibly with a spinny animation, not exactly the most time consuming of jobs.

 

Can I interest anyone in a torch? Perhaps a pitchfork to go?

 

Well feature lock is in for A18. This may seem like a trivial change, but I doubt it at this stage, especially since they'd have to redo and test it on every single POI with a quest, sounds like a ton of time and testing to me. So I'm not expecting this part to change until A19+, although it would be nice in an A18 update down the road, who knows how complex this could get depending on what they want to do... which could trigger another MF explosion, and I imagine we all want to avoid that now that we're so close to Kraken. So we can spitball some ideas here, sure, but we probs won't dig too far into it until the A19 dev forum is up and moving. I can deal with another season using the placeholder.

[PO_Man_3849]

I'd like to see a Gravestone marker with a glowing red crack that looks like a 7 on it.

 

Just so I'm clear here, in place of the bouncing exclamation point, you would be OK with a gravestone in front of a house that serves what purpose?

 

"But it has a crack in it that looks like a 7, yippeee!"

 

I apologize for sounding harsh, I was not in a good mood away the time...

[Star69]

Somewhere in my feeble memories I remember mm saying they didn’t want anything cheesy. That’s why I mentioned 5 meter area though the npc idea is actually a cool idea. It would put the fix much further down the road but would fit with the additions of bandit npc’s.

[Ti2xGr]

Just so I'm clear here, in place of the bouncing exclamation point, you would be OK with a gravestone in front of a house that serves what purpose?

 

"But it has a crack in it that looks like a 7, yippeee!"

 

Yeah, I was thinking something a bit less Super Mario and a bit more dark but still serves the same purpose. Thankfully, I can just bask in your wisdom instead. Thanks for the glow of your wit. Sadly, It seems a bit dim.

[Roland]

I think it should just activate when you get to within 50m of the location. That allows plenty of time for other players to join your party as the nearest quest destination I've seen is in the 200m range. It also means you won't be able to witness the change. By time it comes into view it is reset for the quest. It also means you won't be able to do the POI before manually activating a rally point to reset it for the quest.

 

Automatic activation at 50m is the ticket.

[Guppycur]

I think it should just activate when you get to within 50m of the location. That allows plenty of time for other players to join your party as the nearest quest destination I've seen is in the 200m range. It also means you won't be able to witness the change. By time it comes into view it is reset for the quest. It also means you won't be able to do the POI before manually activating a rally point to reset it for the quest.

 

Automatic activation at 50m is the ticket.

 

Different chunk.

[Mechanimal]

I think it should just activate when you get to within 50m of the location. That allows plenty of time for other players to join your party as the nearest quest destination I've seen is in the 200m range. It also means you won't be able to witness the change. By time it comes into view it is reset for the quest. It also means you won't be able to do the POI before manually activating a rally point to reset it for the quest.

 

Automatic activation at 50m is the ticket.

 

Hmm, sounds worth a try, although I double-dip some of them now I am not super thrilled about it, kind of ruins the believability of the world as a real place, pullin a Matrix level reset like that. I mean I get it for the quest, but between that and the hologram marker it introduced 2 very "gamey" feeling aspects into A17 that weren't there before. Yes it bruised my precious precious "immersion", but I deal, just would prefer it snap back a bit where possible. Doing a POI twice just doesn't feel right, but I can't ignore that sweet loot. Tis conflicting.

 

So, one thing I think we'd need is for the system to check POIs before putting up a quest just in case someone has laid down a bedroll or LCB in the POI. Like, it should not show up as a quest at all, that would help avoid those kind of annoyances, and/or disaster if it just reset a POI regardless. I know this can get tricky in MP games, especially on servers, but I am very much a POI base adapter, what we have now is good enough, but having them trigger automatically once a player gets close enough needs to be addressed. I do love the new POIs, a ton, but making them off limits is ridiculous and I avoid any and all servers that prohibit it. Maybe there can be some server settings to help manage it, but that idea in general sounds interesting, let's see what MM thinks, I know I've seen this topic in the forums before, just been awhile...

[khzmusik]

I think it should just activate when you get to within 50m of the location. That allows plenty of time for other players to join your party as the nearest quest destination I've seen is in the 200m range. It also means you won't be able to witness the change. By time it comes into view it is reset for the quest. It also means you won't be able to do the POI before manually activating a rally point to reset it for the quest.

 

Automatic activation at 50m is the ticket.

 

Are you talking about the quest itself activating, or the marker appearing? I assume the former (since the latter doesn't really solve what the other forum users are complaining about, which is the marker's design).

 

If so - I am against this, for one reason.

 

Often, you use POIs as houses or bases. Many POIs are not revealed as quest POIs until later game stages. So, if you've set up shop in one of these, and you've lived there for a while - suddenly your base for the past 40 ingame hours has been reset (i.e. replaced) and all your stuff is gone.

 

EDIT: It may be true that the quest system ignores POIs with either land claim blocks or bedrolls in them. Still, this can lead to a lot of stuff being lost - say, if you set up a chest outside the structure but within the POI boundary.

 

With the floating icon, you can at least reject the quest or get all your stuff out before starting it. You couldn't do that with your suggestion.

[Mechanimal]

Are you talking about the quest itself activating, or the marker appearing? I assume the former (since the latter doesn't really solve what the other forum users are complaining about, which is the marker's design).

 

If so - I am against this, for one reason.

 

Often, you use POIs as houses or bases. Many POIs are not revealed as quest POIs until later game stages. So, if you've set up shop in one of these, and you've lived there for a while - suddenly your base for the past 40 ingame hours has been reset (i.e. replaced) and all your stuff is gone.

 

With the floating icon, you can at least reject the quest or get all your stuff out before starting it. You couldn't do that with your suggestion.

 

Yeah that is what I was getting at, and actually you CANNOT start the quest, even by choice, if a bedroll is present within it. It will not, cannot, reset or start, and it should stay that way.... iirc, and I am pretty sure. Once I had a bedroll across the street and it was still too close and would not allow me to start the quest without removing it first, so I believe it is a thing, for that reason. Def need a way to avoid resetting, I learned my lesson the hard way on first run of A17. I got to a house POI, set down a storage in the driveway and dumped all my stuff to clear my inventory for looting before starting the quest... and... POOF mothafuggaaaaa, gone. All my looty booty goodness vanished right in front of me. I got learnt, it hurt, but was effective and now I keep my loot drops in safe areas, usually across the street or in a nearby empty area.