Scyris Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 You're seriously underestimating firearms in this game. The SMG is so much better than the slow and stamina-draining pickaxe, it's no comparison. Only downsides are noise and ammo. I specifically keep firearms on my tool belt for surprise situations like these, where the DPS of melee and bows are simply insufficient. Same, I always keep a Smg, Shotgun or even a pistol on my bar for those Oh crap! moments. I also make sure I have some ammo first as well. In one game I am on day 8, and I have over 600 pistol rounds 250 7.62mm and like 100 shotgun shells, all looted, I did not buy a single round off the trader. Rememeber, in a17e the headshot multi's aren't absurdly high like in a16, 4-5 body shots with a pistol to a normal zombies chest is enough to put most of them down on nomad diffculty. Less if you aim for head shots. In a panic situation I just aim for the safer body shots in a17e. Each shot has a chance to put them into a pain animation which gives the player a second or 2 of breathing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Some are still trying to play this like an A16 power fantasy with infinite stamina where zombies cannot even hit you as you run right through them. I have watched several good players playing A17 on insane, killing zombies in melee or at range. What I would not see there is them charging in blindly without a way to run or without even bandages. If you want to see some A17 insane / always run / permadeath... check out this crazy woman. I love when streamers try to play a17e like a16, its funny when they get destroyed because playing like its a16 just doesn't work, its bascally a new game now, the old stuff just doesn't work well anymore. For example I find wood spikes useless now in a17e, I'd much prefer barbed wire fences, for 2 reasons: 1: they don't break by zombies walking on them only if the hit them, and 2: it slows them down a ton and makes it easy to kill them even with melee or a bow. On nomad it takes multiple wood spikes to kill even the weakest zombie. Unlike a16 where 1 wood spike could easly kill 2-3 with how high there damage was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 @OP You are right! You did purposely put yourself into situations that ended up penalizing you. We can't deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I dunno man, the fact the loot was just sitting there in the open kinda screams "There is a trap here!" to me, especally in a17e. There is a difference tho. Is there an inherent link between loot and hidden zombies? Cause I got two guns out of cars... with ammo... So while you might say "its obvious" It is not, as there is no inherent link between the two. What IS a link? Sound (like a jukebox), a kitchen with open meat... The dog salon having dogs inside them. But zombies at loot is "forced" difficulty. They have no ingame reason to be there, except that the devs want to make the game harder. This is bad and cheap gamedesign. Good examples(A17): Zombies behind locked/barricaded doors (they hide, but got infected, zombie) You banging on a safe 300 times with a stoneaxe luring a wandering horde. Hell even zombies in closets make a bit of sense (got infected, tried to hide, you made noise outside it woke up) But ask yourself: How did those zombies get up there? Maybe infected? Why are the floortiles so unstable? And why didn't they break earlier? Yes you could try and find some sort of weird excuse im not saying you aren't creative. But it isn't instinctive. If I go in a police station I expect cops, if I go in a hospital nurses and guests, if I go into some radom 2person poi unboarded and unbroken I dont expect 15 zombies, deadly traps and a sleeping bear in the bedroom. There should be a consistent world that is (mostly) predictable. But 5+ zombies in the walls or mines on top of cranes are not consistent with an apocalyptic world and is only there to fake difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaTot Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 mines on top of cranes are not consistent with an apocalyptic world and is only there to fake difficulty. I laughed so hard the first time I walked on one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I laughed so hard the first time I walked on one of those. Me too, I was like "well thats new", respawned and learned to pay more attention before I jump up on things, especally in the dungeon style poi's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwhit Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The one thing TFP did wrong is not have in game warning on how some POI are very advanced and should not be attempted in SP at early level. They mentioned it on forums here that this was case, but most people don't read forums as much I I or some others do, so might not of got that info. Might be a good little thing to add to the text somewhere on starter quest on how some places might have the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 well, partiallyroyal (the maker of the vid) isnt really known to be a skilled player. He thinks he is a pro and have a very loyal fanbase where OP obviously is a member. I used to check him out quite some time back, but totally stopped when he declared he was gomg to be top 10 pubg/fortnite player in the world. Not much happend there as expected. But still he has, a probably very young, loyal fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktr Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 There is a difference tho. Is there an inherent link between loot and hidden zombies? Cause I got two guns out of cars... with ammo... So while you might say "its obvious" It is not, as there is no inherent link between the two. What IS a link? Sound (like a jukebox), a kitchen with open meat... The dog salon having dogs inside them. But zombies at loot is "forced" difficulty. They have no ingame reason to be there, except that the devs want to make the game harder. This is bad and cheap gamedesign. This could just be my general playing style all together, but (with a few exceptions) I expect high value targets to have higher risks in almost any game. A stage full of Shotgun Messiah crates with no zombies around and no zombie gauntlet preceding it does kinda scream trap. Yes, you can pick up guns in other places, but I've yet to find an 'average' loot container give me the same quantity guns and ammo as a SM crate except for gun safes which are much more difficult to get into. If a player hasn't yet learned the markers of dungeon POIs, then they might not recognize it, but A17 in general doesn't promote run in and whack everything dead playstyle in the early stages either. As far as believability as to where the zombies/traps are, that, I think is up to the mind of the player. Perhaps, in that POI, the military tried to make a staging (haha) area and it got overrun/was in threat of being overrun. So, the few survivors left scrambled up ropes/debris, into the ceiling to hide, but one of them was already bitten. The ropes/debris were long since knocked over by them or some wandering zeds, but up above the now zombified survivors sleep until the meals on legs comes charging in, thinking they've found the motherload. That said, I do think spawns in POIs need tuning (I don't see why this POI should have more dangerous zombies than say, an actual SM store that has just about as many crates if not more). Maybe TFPs want to keep the dungeons as purely option challenges. If that's the case, then they probably need to be less frequent and more obvious. Despite all of that, the first time the player died might be an understandable surprise. The second time though, it definitely shouldn't have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Ktr: Yes. YOU as a player expect it, either because you have played this or similar games a lot or you are generally more cautious... But there is no in-game reason for loot to attract zombies. They are no predator! They should be where: They lived/died, there is food/smell, or on the move looking for pray. Remember that old poi, that one with the small barricaded settlement in it? That is the best poi (worldbuilding wise) in the entire game. There are loads of zombies (they tried to hide in there before getting infected) the loot is good, because they stached it and even the landmine makes sense. If you have played skyrim: You enter a dungeon where everything is blooming with life. Would you expect a bad creature (hargraven, necromancer...) or a lifegiving spriggan in there, even though they are easier to kill? Not everything has to be about challenging the player. Sometimes, consistent world building is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Depends on the player. Some will love the surprise deaths, others will hate them, and some will be ambivalent about it. IDK how much this particular person has played A17. Perhaps not much and so he's still relying on A16 'rules' in which bumrushing worked a lot better. Maybe that will work to A17's benefit with new players because they won't have old habits to unlearn. The guy in the video said he's been playing since pre-alpha. Either way I hope they can find a way to make it well-received for both new and HC players. TFP need to get paid for their work, and they won't get paid if new players are driven away, and if they don't get paid then we all stop getting updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Hey, if the devs cheese things, you go ahead a cheese away too! It can be as simple as 200% loot and daily airdrops (together, its actually a pretty big deal) -or- You can go so far as mod the xml files. In one game I turned my humble stone axe into Mjolnir. It was a fun game for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor3D Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Very little POI looting is needed that early in the game. He should have been looting the easy loot and working on his base while building up his character before going into the dungeon POIs. Play smarter not harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exxodous Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Those are sleeper positions which I feel should be moved, into a place where it makes sense. In closets I'm ok, maybe they are avoiding sunlight. But up in locations a zombie can't actually get to? That makes no sense How about this? After a brush with a zombie and unknowingly already infected, they took refuge in a nearby home, removed the false ceiling, crawled up there to hide and replaced the ceiling panel behind them. Maybe a stretch but still plausible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCrook1028 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 By D8 he should have learned that much of what the video shows is NOT going to work. 1. ALWAYS have the cheap bandages on your hotbar, they're practically free to make so no excuse not to. 2. ALWAYS carry food with you to heal, if you can't then you should be working on that problem and not out looting POIs. 3. When you have low stamina do not use a high stam use tool as a weapon. He had 3 guns he could have used when running out to not have the no stamina problem. 4. NEVER go thru a POI and leave unopened/uncleared areas behind you. Clear as you go so you have an exit. This is A17. You most likely WILL NEED an exit when looting most POIs. 5. Do not leave your base with NOTHING to go try and retrieve your bag. Have at least a good backup club and some bandages in a quick grab chest. He was just asking for a death spiral. 6. He admits in the video that he should have prepared with stamina drinks as soon as he saw and recognized that it was a Dungeon POI. So he KNEW going in it was going to be a hard one and did NONE of the simple things to prepare himself. (bandages on hotbar etc) 7. Reenters said POI after death with a half drained stam bar AND half drained HP bar. What did he expect to happen other than what did? This really all boils down to one simple thing. THIS IS NOT A16 where you can just yolo on in and expect to clean house. You have to play smart. Or die like an idiot time after time. We can see which he chose in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 How about this? After a brush with a zombie and unknowingly already infected, they took refuge in a nearby home, removed the false ceiling, crawled up there to hide and replaced the ceiling panel behind them. Maybe a stretch but still plausible? The Duke's men took five infected prisoners, slit their throats, and stashed them up there as a trap for unsuspecting survivors not part of their faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaTot Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The Duke's men took five infected prisoners, slit their throats, and stashed them up there as a trap for unsuspecting survivors not part of their faction. those sly devils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktr Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Ktr: Yes. YOU as a player expect it, either because you have played this or similar games a lot or you are generally more cautious... Probably a bit of all of the above. My first survival horror games were RE1 and RE2 where the character moved like a tank and you weren't allowed to see around corners without exposing yourself completely to whatever was right around the corner. That said, I was much less cautious in A16 because about the only thing that frustrated me were the irradiated cops. Everything else I could either outmaneuver and/or soak the damage (I meleed a lot in A16). I took a couple of hard knocks in A17 that shook me back to being cautious real fast. But there is no in-game reason for loot to attract zombies. They are no predator! They should be where: They lived/died, there is food/smell, or on the move looking for pray. Remember that old poi, that one with the small barricaded settlement in it? That is the best poi (worldbuilding wise) in the entire game. There are loads of zombies (they tried to hide in there before getting infected) the loot is good, because they stached it and even the landmine makes sense. The one with the Food Mart, the Med building with the large water tower in the center? I love that POI. It's still one of my favorites in the game for many of the reasons that you mention. JFR, I don't disagree with you on the general principle - at least not by much. This might just be a case where it doesn't throw me as much out of the world as it does for you. (If you think that summation of your position is a fair assessment.) If you have played skyrim: You enter a dungeon where everything is blooming with life. Would you expect a bad creature (hargraven, necromancer...) or a lifegiving spriggan in there, even though they are easier to kill? I probably have enough hours in Skyrim that I should hang my head in shame! It was my favorite for a long time. And I do get your point. I hope TFPs do noodle around and fine tune the world building more. But I am willing to forgive some dissonance for the fact that we do have a wide variety of POIs now that I think do lend a depth that the world was lacking. All the towns and cities felt exactly the same up through A16. My personal preference would have been less 'dungeons' and more the settlement style where the pathways aren't dictated by difficulty so much as 'what were these people trying to do to protect themselves'. I do see some of that in the POIs though. Rooms and doors barred, hasty escapes cobbled together to make one last failed stand in the attic (or basement) and other such details that I have very much enjoyed. Not everything has to be about challenging the player. Sometimes, consistent world building is more important. Mostly agreed. I love world building. It's my favorite part of video games, books, movies, and more. But, I'm also okay with adding in more challenges that may not fall in line with world building because there are people who really want that kind of push. I definitely don't want to see all POI efforts go into dungeon building either. There are some of the houses, for example, that I wish had just been made regular houses where the residents had lived and died instead of a weird maze twisting through the rooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grieferbastard Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 There's tons of dangers like this in various POIs. There's no magic barrier, just the sound you make triggers aggro like all sleepers. Get to the door, pop an arrow in one and back up. Kite them out and kill them. I died a few times early on as I learned to be really, really careful exploring new places. I lost all my stuff twice. It was frustrating but that's the nature of challenges. If I knew I was always going to win and it was designed to always be something I could easily handle I would get bored and play something else. Given that my AI is more adaptable than the games zombie AI the developers have to use dirty tricks, just like I do, to keep the risk there. Every player has a stck of dirty, bordering on exploitive tricks they use to kill zombies. That's totally okay. If th developers similarly use brutal tricks to get the player that's not okay? I learned to be super cautious and am eay less likely to get caught in spots like this. If you can't handle groups of tough zombies, at any day, you're playing the game wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktr Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The Duke's men took five infected prisoners, slit their throats, and stashed them up there as a trap for unsuspecting survivors not part of their faction. I like this variation. It was either a trap all along or a truly diabolical way of keeping supplies safe. Kind of like the Wolves or Whisperers in TWD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 The Dukes men could have easily used the teleport machine the player uses when they "die" and the zombies "eat their guts". The aliens obviously forgot to retreave their machine once they teleported the zombie virus into 51% of humanity. (The warranty had expired no doubt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Thanks krt. And yeah I totally understand if someone doesn't mind it that much. We all enjoy other things. But most people just say "oh its just not A16 get gud" and don't even care that I'm not arguing difficulty because I've played on insane since forever and felt its too easy. They think because they like it or don't mind it as much, that makes it good/acceptable. But I want this game to be great. And it had so much promise in A16 that they just threw away to make it a bit harder. THIS is why I try and argue with people, even though they don't want to listen. Because I know I could make this game OBJECTIVELY better. But oh whatever... I'm just a hater who can't adapt, even though I already played A17 on insane and survived my first hordenight without dying, no matter how broken spawning and zombie damage is. Hater out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I love how everyone is trying to find flaws in his playstyle. Well the OP kind of set himself up for it with his combative attitude. I agree there is still some balancing to be done still. TFP has already make some tweeks in the last updates we have and i'm sure more are coming. Still The OP's obsessive instance that his pick axe was the best weapon he had despite having some firearms leads me to believe he needs to adjust his playstyle and it's not so much the game. Hit for Hit a Pick might do more than a gun. In a tight situation a gun allows you to: Fire rapidly, possibly doing more dps than the pick over time. Allow you to dps at range avoiding hits. Not deplete your precious stamina. You can't run in all whack a mole and expect to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoppaTot Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 this thread is a great read while sitting at work lmao, guy comes in with his temper flaring, community say his friend play stupidly... I wish my work had popcorn haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugginator Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 All I saw out of the video was someone setting themselves up for failure. What's with all of these "This sucks and you CANT say anything different!" statements? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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