You can't say that this not purposefully punative.

[Rockspider]

Op bit knee jerk reaction

 

This video does show the problems experienced by new inexperienced players and players at low levels. Especially if you are not prepared but then how do you prepare if you can not loot at low level ?!? hmmm

 

I do not believe this is deliberately put in as a way to stop you getting your stuff back at all. lol

 

Needs a bit of balancing thats all

[Bhaaltazar]

Cmon CoolJ if the game is to much to handle for you than go play some Minecraft to calm your nerves.

 

Yes there are moments when you think it too much to handle, because you play the way it way played in 16 - which was only somewhat challenging for the 1st week and than you built an inpenetrable base and that was game over.

Thing is A17 is complete overhaul of the game, so to play it the same way as you did A16 or all the previous alphas will get you in trouble.

And to Partially Royals aren't exactly good players - they are there to record the vid and do a show, but their builds were very sub par in A16 - from those few vids that I watched.

 

I missed these from the ceiling scares - I actually wanted to suggest they redo the spider zombies who would be lurking down from the ceilings when you go on loot runs. A16 was very easy and the game needed some rebalancing for extra fun - and also this is experimental things will get rebalanced again and changed before stable build. If not I am having fun with this game and did't have that much of an issues with it.

Of course There are issues with spawning of sleepers right at your face sometimes in big POI's, and plenty other issues, but thats something TFP will fix down the line. Its Alpha not a finished product.

 

So before you start with undeserved criticism, maybe rather ask how other players are handling it, use different perks and approaches perhaps, use new behavioral dynamics of the zombies to your advantage.... etc.

or you can always just cheat in the dev. gun and 1 shot kill them all so you can feel godlike once again.

[CoolJ]

Actually, I think you're quite clearly demonstrating what unreasonable feedback looks like. If/when you're ready to seriously debate the changes you think are needed in A17, that would be well worth listening to. If you just want to rant and accuse TFP of engineering a giant conspiracy against the playerbase, well, don't expect much by way of engagement from TFP I suspect.

 

Come on now. What is unreasonable about expecting you to tell the truth when you made an error in judgement? Nothing.

 

It is not a bug to enter in a line of code with a number for damage that is less for a weapon than it is for a tool and to do it consistently throughout the entire game. That is intentional.

 

It is not a bug to deceive the player into thinking about stealth mechanics when the mob trigger is obviously an area or "volume" trigger designed to put the enemy between the player and the exit. That is also intentional.

 

There is no debate. Every time you say those things are a bug, you are lying. What that tells me is that I can expect no satisfactory resolution in any case because you aren't even able to admit the actual problem.

[Viktoriusiii]

I love how everyone is trying to find flaws in his playstyle.

While I don't play dead is dead (because bugs and silent dogs/bears are accountable for 15+ out of my ~20 deaths in 1k hours of play(always on insane), I would still consider myself above average. And yes he made some mistakes, but non that should cause multiple dearhs.

 

This is the same problem that I mentioned in A16:

No counterplay, harsh punishment.

In A16:

-mines in places that dont fit

- blocks breaking that have no reason to instantly break

-silent animal hordes

In A17:

Poi hidden feral zombies (not just one)

 

Even on day 35 in A16 that would be pretty harsh! Not to mention A17 day 9.

[Tantalus11]

It is not a bug to enter in a line of code with a number for damage that is less for a weapon than it is for a tool and to do it consistently throughout the entire game. That is intentional.

 

It is not a bug, it is lack of balancing. Balancing is something that happens during testing phase, like it happened with the death penalty.

 

It is not a bug to deceive the player into thinking about stealth mechanics when the mob trigger is obviously an area or "volume" trigger designed to put the enemy between the player and the exit. That is also intentional.

 

Maybe, but that only means the player has to take care about an alternative exit before entering a building. So it is part of game mechanics.

 

There is no debate. Every time you say those things are a bug, you are lying. What that tells me is that I can expect no satisfactory resolution in any case because you aren't even able to admit the actual problem.

 

If satisfactory resolution would mean that TFP will change the entire game the way you want, no, i think that will not happen.

 

Regards

Tantalus

[Kubikus]

Just watch this video and tell me you think this is a bug and not intentionally made this way. You can't because it's clear that the entire purpose of this player trap is to ensure that you die and that you can never retrieve your stuff.

 

Well, yes, it is intentional, but you gotta admit that he was not behaving particularly smart or skillful. Not having a bandage in your belt, for example, or using a heavy stamina draining tool when you only have 100 stamina. Knowing what's about to come, yet run into the room with only 73 health and 60 stamina left. After 8 ingame days you should've found out that you cannot just run for the loot and expect to live.

[Jedo]

Why does CoolJ keep accusing Oz of lying when Oz hasn't admitted to anything in this thread? Am I missing part of the conversation?

 

Anyway, this was the player's fault. Games are made to be hard, and the player wasn't forced to go in there.

[AlertPimpin]

Listen, I have like 30 hours in the game. I just bought it on Black Friday from the steam sale for $8.99. I walked into a POI and zombies dropped from the ceiling and surprised me.

 

I ran.

 

I did not swing a slow AF axe and stay in the room with multiple enemies. I kited through a choke point into an area where i had more space to maneuver and I knew that there was nothing behind me. I took control of the situation.

 

Another time, I was clearing a house... as i walked into the passage between the living room and the kitchen, the floor collapsed. I fell into the basement, triggered 8 sleepers and the house was filled with traps... I panicked, not seeing the barbed wire covering an exit and jumped right into it trying to clear the wooden spikes in front of it. I still was able to gather myself and kited the enemies up and out of the house to deal with them on the street where i had more control.

 

I don't have bad habits that I have to unlearn from previoius iterations of the game, but surely... a noob shouldn't have better strats than people who have played this game hundreds of hours. And from this point on, whenever i enter a room with vaulted ceilings, i check my corners and look up to see if there are any hidden enemies... i haven't been surprised since.

[Khulkhuum]

I had a similar situation (though not with ferals). In my new save i went through a big POI hotel and stealthily cleared room after room (had a few surprises here and there, but i managed). At one point though i was seriously surprised when after almost clearing a big room (one Z left on which i focused attention) suddenly i got mauled by like 4 from behind. Still in stealth.

 

"THEY SPAWNED FROM MID AIR!" my mind raced, just as my legs as i ran back into the POI and up to the floor where the room was. Carefully i checked the walls and the ceiling. Surprise surprise, a group of Zs just waiting to fall down where i died.

 

Lesson learned and i started looking up every time i entered a room. Saved me a few surprises when half of the next floor was "double" and there were worker zombies waiting to fall through the easily destroyable floor boards up there. Also, such surprises were already in A16, like in Laundromats i believe and some other POIs (and there were cops there, i remember people complaining that the cops respawned, when they blew up, not got killed).

 

So yeah, no new mechanic just different Zs and different POIs. If you didn't manage then, you will not now.

[CoolJ]

Why does CoolJ keep accusing Oz of lying when Oz hasn't admitted to anything in this thread? Am I missing part of the conversation?

 

Anyway, this was the player's fault. Games are made to be hard, and the player wasn't forced to go in there.

 

Just to be clear. I am not accusing Oz of lying at all though it might seem that way. The members of this forum and the players of the game have expressed concerns about several of these aspects and instead of acknowledgement and explanation, they are getting the old Jedi Mind Trick telling them that these things are just bugs that will get worked out. My beef is I know a lot of these things are design decisions and not bugs. Which means we have no idea if they intend to make changes to them or not. Which is incredibly rude and dismissive.

[Vedui]

I do agree that the game is hard. Which is nice to a degree.

 

I also feel that the POI designers have in some cases gone out of their way to make loose floorboards, zombies in the ceiling, drop-traps etc that are designed to kill/challenge the player. Sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's just illogical. While I don't know the POI the video was about, for instance the Live Bait at the lake is an example. There are what 4-6 zombies IN the rafters at the ceiling, where you can't actually get up as a player (without building). Why are the sleepers there? They can't climb up there. And they'd have no reason to. And it's not as if they died while up there. So it really doesn't make sense for them to be there, other than to wake and drop down as the player enters.

 

Those are sleeper positions which I feel should be moved, into a place where it makes sense. In closets I'm ok, maybe they are avoiding sunlight. But up in locations a zombie can't actually get to? That makes no sense

 

/V -

[Khulkhuum]

Just went through the part in the video where he first died with pickaxe in hand outside and in the building. Below are my concerns:

 

1. Backed into a corner you can't retreat. (the second death)

2. No bandages, pills (they give 40 health on using when you don't have the buff), no 1st aid kit, no nothing. He had them in inventory and struggled the first time using them.

3. Using beer doesn't grant you instant stamina regeneration like in A16 and doesn't give "free" stamina as it used to in A16.

4. Rushing in, without checking stealthily which zombies to kite or what he's against (later proving that even irradiated spawned). If he came back the Zs could have respawned at different spots and if you kill some (not all) then the rest will frequent random free spots.

5. Using pickaxe while still having many weapons on belt.

 

I would use anything else than a pickaxe, not when there are ferals and possibly irradiated ones. Even a mere wooden club would be better, because it swings fast (i prefer hunting knife or machete). The point i don't use iron fireaxe (even considering its high damage) as a weapon is because it hits too slow, just like the crossbow. Rarely do i use sledgehammer for the same reasons, unless i know my surroundings well and i'm not outnumbered or simply can bash away not caring about being hit.

 

Like seriously?! Don't get me wrong, seen a few youtubers/streamers that simply get devastated by the zombies, but it boils down to them playing A16 mindset. No matter how sorry i feel about it (and many other things that sometimes irritate me when watching people play), these are people mistakes. I make mistakes also and hopefully learn from them.

[Viktoriusiii]

Thank you verdui.

 

Difficulty is not the same as punishing.

It can be difficult without the need of forced difficulty via zombies dropping from above for no apparent reason.

He avoided the dog salon, because the risk was measurable. And while his playstyle isnt the most safe, that its his fault.

[JaxTeller718]

Come on now. What is unreasonable about expecting you to tell the truth when you made an error in judgement? Nothing.

 

It is not a bug to enter in a line of code with a number for damage that is less for a weapon than it is for a tool and to do it consistently throughout the entire game. That is intentional.

 

It is not a bug to deceive the player into thinking about stealth mechanics when the mob trigger is obviously an area or "volume" trigger designed to put the enemy between the player and the exit. That is also intentional.

 

There is no debate. Every time you say those things are a bug, you are lying. What that tells me is that I can expect no satisfactory resolution in any case because you aren't even able to admit the actual problem.

 

The fact that you are focusing solely on Entity Damage and ignoring Stamina Usage, Perks and Attacks Per Minute shows the problem is YOU and other players like you who refuse to think logically.

 

There's no bugfix for that.

[Wulf]

Bad decisions by the player in that video, just like some previous posters have already mentioned.

The fact that he might have 10k hours in the game doesn't matter. A17 is a different beast. I had to revise about 75% of ALL my strategies.

 

Also, different POI's have different difficulty levels. Maybe next time, he won't go in that building until he's better prepared.

[Feycat]

Come on now. What is unreasonable about expecting you to tell the truth when you made an error in judgement? Nothing.

 

It is not a bug to enter in a line of code with a number for damage that is less for a weapon than it is for a tool and to do it consistently throughout the entire game. That is intentional.

 

It is not a bug to deceive the player into thinking about stealth mechanics when the mob trigger is obviously an area or "volume" trigger designed to put the enemy between the player and the exit. That is also intentional.

 

There is no debate. Every time you say those things are a bug, you are lying. What that tells me is that I can expect no satisfactory resolution in any case because you aren't even able to admit the actual problem.

 

The problem with the damage you keep citing is that BASE entity damage isn't the ONLY consideration when choosing a weapon.

 

The steel pick does more base entity damage, yes, but it swings slower and it kills your stamina. You are better off battering the crap out of someone with a normal wooden club and being able to have a mobile fight (kiting is now the most important combat skill you will have) than using a pickaxe to swing slowly, stationary, and then not run.

 

It's not a bug. He - and you - are making an erroneous assumption that the base damage number > all and taking that completely out of context.

[Sergoros]

What I would recommend to any poi explorer is to forget jumps altogether. They trigger all zeds around ya. What I have been doing this alpha is carrying ~200 wood with me all the time. To make ramp frames and ladders. This way you can navigate the poi without waking most of the zombies. Even power attack axe on the door wont wake them up. But a small fall from the table to the floor would wake up whole house. Pickaxe does wake up zeds tho.

[Shillen]

I like the idea of the "traps" and "surprise! zombies" in POIs. But they definitely have gone a little overboard on it. When a feral wight and 7 other ferals come running at you on day 8 (or even day 30 for that matter) good freaking luck. The feral wight alone would be scary and difficult enough without the 7 other zombies. Definitely needs to be toned back.

[stupid]

It's pretty easy to criticize the player, but how is this game going to be received by new players? Personally I don't know, but this will give us an idea: https://steamcharts.com/app/251570#6m

[ktr]

It's pretty easy to criticize the player, but how is this game going to be received by new players? Personally I don't know, but this will give us an idea: https://steamcharts.com/app/251570#6m

 

Depends on the player. Some will love the surprise deaths, others will hate them, and some will be ambivalent about it.

 

IDK how much this particular person has played A17. Perhaps not much and so he's still relying on A16 'rules' in which bumrushing worked a lot better. Maybe that will work to A17's benefit with new players because they won't have old habits to unlearn.

[Scyris]

Did you even watch the video? Or are you just here for damage control? Talking down to your customers is super classy though bro. I guess I am the fool because you already got my money. GG.

 

 

 

Exactly what items did he even have to restore his health? He didnt have any food. Bandages do not heal you so are utterly pointless. Stealth wouldn't work at all since the zombies are clearly on a trigger that's why they didn't fall down when he ran around the room in circles. They only came down when he stepped on the stage. He went in completely unprepared because it is day 8! He can't make ammo. He has neither the weapons or stats available to him to kill what he encountered in that room. You trying to say you would have lived through that room because you are just smarter is a joke. That building would eat you alive on day 8 just like anyone. The best weapon he had was a steel pick. Even though there are several actual weapons on his toolbar. If you didn't notice that was a Glowing Zombie and Feral Soldier.

 

Yea man I would have gone in with a tank and the dug up body of Patton and owned that room boy.

 

I would have: gathered some cotton. made some cloth, you can do this the second you first spawn into the game, finding stones, feathers and wood for arrows is not hard, how does he have no food by day 8 is beyond me, by day 2 I usually have more food than I need and I never run out, same for water. Also i've taken out ferals in poi's on day 1, so yes, I would have lived thru it. They aren't that hard tbh. 1 or 2 anyway, 3 or more then we run into problems early game. If it was me, I'd have had them spawn then run like hell outside to get some distance, fighting 2 ferals in a room is not a smart move early game. Sleepers won't respawn in a17e unless you move over 30 blocks away from the poi. Been lots of times i've ran thru a poi to wake up all the zombies, then ran outside and let them come to me to clear it out all out once.

 

By day 8 he also should have been able to find a cooking pot, and with master chef rank 1, he could use those eggs from getting feathers and meat from animals to make bacon and eggs, which restore 36 or 38 max stam AND heal 18 health. I'm not a expert at 7dtd in anyway, but i'd never make the screw ups the one who made that video did. He just went in there way under prepared and paid for it. The game is not to blame for that, the player is.

 

Also radiated zombies, are no diffrent than normal ones stat wise, the only diff is they regen hp at a decent pace. At most they take 1 extra hit to kill for me. Depends on weapons avail at the time though. My go to is the fire axe or better a sledgehammer early game.

[Scyris]

What I have a problem with is the sheer obviousness of forced difficulty.

 

I wont go into the dog salon, because I can assess the risk it might bring.

 

With that bar he died in... HOW are you supposed to know that there will be ferals dropping from the ceiling on day 8???

 

It is not a "fair" difficulty.

 

And while the player could be more prepared, dropping zombies from above is not in any way to be expected.

 

Good gamedesign is for the game to show you (kinda like with vaccines) "look this can happen" early on and then casually raising the threat.

But this Alpha it is just a bad Rocky quote:

"If he dies, he dies!"

Which is never a good idea for exploration-rpgs.

 

I dunno man, the fact the loot was just sitting there in the open kinda screams "There is a trap here!" to me, especally in a17e.

[Scyris]

He brought that on himself. I've been in that very room... the difference between me and him is that I was prepared to fight anything or find an exit immediately. If you aren't a problem solver and jump to complain at any sort of difficulty, maybe video games aren't for you.

 

Exactly what I am saying, he went in completly unprepared thats his fault not the games fault. If I was that low on supplies i'd have stayed out of that kind of poi, as it'd probally be a death trap. Also, the better loot a poi has the more likely its going to be guarded by higher level zombies. The "Safest" Poi's to go into are old ones from a16, if its a new one from a17e, i'd prepare alot better before going in. If its a dungeon style poi you should expect some traps and such in them, you can usually tell if a poi is one of these before you even enter it.

[ktr]

I dunno man, the fact the loot was just sitting there in the open kinda screams "There is a trap here!" to me, especally in a17e.

 

Anytime I see good loot boxes just sitting around now, my first instinct is to go "okay where are they going to come from?".

[Reth]

I myself find PoIs in A17 a bit overdone. Zombies don't really make good stealth enemies. Empyrion has similar trap-filled structures, but hidden turrets and trap doors make much more sense in a SciFi setting. You also don't have an option of disassembling an entire PoI without clearing it first.