Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[archergod]

You also need to watch what foods you eat as some of them hydrate you and gain fullness. Meat stew for the win! I love finding that while I am looting.

 

For starter game boiled meat is perfect, it hydrate you and full your stomach as well, so you don't need to carry water and food both.

[The Gronk]

You also need to watch what foods you eat as some of them hydrate you and gain fullness. Meat stew for the win! I love finding that while I am looting.

 

Between the bird nest every five metres, the delicate deer, and the suicidally aggressive boars and dogs I've eaten nothing but bacon and eggs since day one.

 

There was talk of food and water being difficult to find in A17, I'm not really seeing it in practice though.

[LionsDen]

Has anyone else run into their minibike disappearing on them?

 

I was killed by a wandering horde of soldiers that a couple of ferals intruded upon and back at my base I grabbed my bicycle and could see my marker for the minibike. I put the bike down and rode for my stash and my minibike and got my stash but the icon for my minibike disappeared when I got close to it and it wasn't where I left it. The minibike had around 150 forged iron with 10 to 15 honey and many other assorted items including a sledge hammer and other tools that are now gone forever.

 

EDIT - I am running a half dozen modlets, but nothing that touches the vehicles.

 

Now the game has lost my replacement minibike and my brand new motorcycle! I had a lot of stuff in my motorcycle as well. It seems that I won't be able to use vehicles reliably during experimental because they keep disappearing on me.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Faatal; first let me post a thank you for the pointer regarding the Lights and the tracking ai. Since you all have made the code use a lot more flexible and open. Id like to know is there a way to change the Bloodmoon director start, end, from datetime,dusk dawn, to start timer 6000 ticks end?

[lumpoycustards]

I was thinking about how great it is that mines don't kill you outright any more. It's a QOL improvement.

However, I do think standing on a landmine should sprain your ankle.

Discuss.

[FileMachete]

Between the bird nest every five metres, the delicate deer, and the suicidally aggressive boars and dogs I've eaten nothing but bacon and eggs since day one.

 

There was talk of food and water being difficult to find in A17, I'm not really seeing it in practice though.

 

It was a little dicey first two days in Navezgane, didn't see any animals. Looted maybe a dozen eggs day 1? Eggs seem rarer in b208. Lucked into a working forge so could make a cooking pot & boiled a couple eggs. Forgot the gravel roads give sand so wound up eating a few raw eggs, instead of making more glass jars. No food poisioning thankfully. Evening of day 2 got a boar. After that hasn't been an issue really, other than egg shortage. But that could be chalked up to me staying near home.

 

Edit: I am guessing/expecting that there'll be a decrease in animals in stable, if a16 is anything to go by. Likely more in the exp patches so we can test them. Just a guess

[FileMachete]

I was thinking about how great it is that mines don't kill you outright any more. It's a QOL improvement.

However, I do think standing on a landmine should sprain your ankle.

Discuss.

 

Agree w both points. However the one mine I've -not- found by stepping on it I couldn't detonate w a bow. After a few shots, even a couple arrows sticking out of the mine, a kind zombie came over to investigate

 

So yes, so long as we can still remotely detonate them. Seems only fair

[vitamin]

On the subject of stamina, what's the point of increasing stamina if we also lose it faster with hunger?

[archergod]

Between the bird nest every five metres, the delicate deer, and the suicidally aggressive boars and dogs I've eaten nothing but bacon and eggs since day one.

 

There was talk of food and water being difficult to find in A17, I'm not really seeing it in practice though.

 

I agree to you, I was clearing this Paper Mill POI, and I found 1 dire wolf, 3 wolf waiting for me, when I clear this building, I got 100+ meat. If I found enough egg I make egg and bacon, or else I make Boiled Meat, I have 750 Meat spare with me right now, just waiting for enough Eggs. I I am farming just for fun of it and to grow Aloe Vera for banagage,

 

Beer last very little, coffee is not much fun in itself, so if I get clean water and meat, there is no issue of food. Food is lot in this game.

[Gazz]

On the subject of stamina, what's the point of increasing stamina if we also lose it faster with hunger?

Increasing stamina does not make you lose it faster.

 

 

& later on they'll add a white chicken bone or something when we're stuffed

That or an American flag.

[archergod]

I love the fact that Bicycle or minibike can break those small stone, but they get too much damage in process of doing so. I go little offroad in burnt biome and all I know that my cycle came down 1% on every burning wooden log, which is essentially every 5 second of bike travelling in game. If we are on road we are safe else we lose our vehicle too quickly. Can you reduce the damaage it take from such blocks? And increase the damage they make to zed? I mean hitting with bicycle should not damage zed much, but hitting with minibike or hog should kill them in not sooner than at least in 3 hits.

[FileMachete]

On the subject of stamina, what's the point of increasing stamina if we also lose it faster with hunger?

 

Way it's working right now is that if Food/Fullness, aka hunger, is less than 100% then the maximum Stamina you can have is also reduced.

 

Say you haven't bought into the Attribute that increases Stamina pool by 10 points each time. So your max Stamina = 100 , then as you get hungry, so below 100, your resting Stamina will only fill up to that number.

 

So a Fullness/Food of '75' means Stamina won't go above 75.

 

What the "oversaturation" allows is for you to eat so Food/Fullness is greater than 100. Max Stamina would still be 100, but since the over-eaten bit is being used up first (though hidden), your Stamina will keep refilling to 100 for a number of minutes; until the oversaturation has been consumed and Fullness drops below 100.

 

Edit: this bit in reddish is wrong: Additionally Water plays into max cap for Stamina. Think if your Water drops below 50 then stamina pool shrinks? Sry, not clear on the water part.

Edit: see about 8 posts down, #43915 for what really happens. Apologies!

 

But basically you want/need to keep Hunger/Food/Fullness pretty darn high all the time. Otherwise your stamina pool is smaller, so fewer melee swings before you're out of stamina and can't swing until it comes back, or shorter distance you can sprint before you're forced to walk.

 

To me Water & Food should be reversed in their effects on Stamina. But atm, Food has the main impact on Stamina.

 

Sry the explanation is such a mess. Partly due to my poor writing, also partly the system being a bit messy, imo.

 

That or an American flag.

 

Ha! I see what you did there! Pretty good/true one though

[unlike them]

No, I like bikes like they are now. Roads have use. Or take caution when riding offroad. Please don't nerf.

[LionsDen]

Additionally Water plays into max cap for Stamina. Think if your Water drops below 50 then stamina pool shrinks? Sry, not clear on the water part.

 

From what I have observed, the lower your water is, the slower your stamina replenishes. I have found to keep a good rate for stamina to refill, my water needs to be above 60 to 65%.

[Gnomaana]

WHy is the thirst and food bars so slow to raise now.....You drink a water and the counter climbs 1 digit at a time....why cant it climb up to a total after each glass of water, like it used to....just so we can over eat or drink and see the orange face....waste of resources if simplification was the goal. Dont like it at all

 

The orange face is from food poisoning isn't it? I've never gotten it from eating food with 0% chance.

[vitamin]

Increasing stamina does not make you lose it faster.

We sure do. 1% of 100 is 1 per 1% of fullness. 1% of 150 is 1.5 per 1% of fullness.

[Gnomaana]

Way it's working right now is that if Food/Fullness, aka hunger, is less than 100% then the maximum Stamina you can have is also reduced.

 

Say you haven't bought into the Attribute that increases Stamina pool by 10 points each time. So your max Stamina = 100 , then as you get hungry, so below 100, your resting Stamina will only fill up to that number.

 

So a Fullness/Food of '75' means Stamina won't go above 75.

 

What the "oversaturation" allows is for you to eat so Food/Fullness is greater than 100. Max Stamina would still be 100, but since the over-eaten bit is being used up first (though hidden), your Stamina will keep refilling to 100 for a number of minutes; until the oversaturation has been consumed and Fullness drops below 100.

 

Additionally Water plays into max cap for Stamina. Think if your Water drops below 50 then stamina pool shrinks? Sry, not clear on the water part.

 

But basically you want/need to keep Hunger/Food/Fullness pretty darn high all the time. Otherwise your stamina pool is smaller, so fewer melee swings before you're out of stamina and can't swing until it comes back, or shorter distance you can sprint before you're forced to walk.

 

To me Water & Food should be reversed in their effects on Stamina. But atm, Food has the main impact on Stamina.

 

Sry the explanation is such a mess. Partly due to my poor writing, also partly the system being a bit messy, imo.

 

 

 

Ha! I see what you did there! Pretty good/true one though

 

DOn't think water affects max stamina. Just rate of stamina regen.

[FileMachete]

WHy is the thirst and food bars so slow to raise now.....You drink a water and the counter climbs 1 digit at a time....why cant it climb up to a total after each glass of water, like it used to....just so we can over eat or drink and see the orange face....waste of resources if simplification was the goal. Dont like it at all

 

Just came to mind that it may be this way so _if_ you let Water go below Edit this stuff in reddish is inaccurate: '50' (where ever it starts shrinking the stamina pool) then there can be a kind of hidden 'debuff'. Small stamina pool means fewer swings, shorter sprint distance; overall 'weaker' until X seconds have past while you're absorbing the drink.

If I got that right then it kind of makes sense, and I can even agree with it; if it didn't start at 50%.

What actually happens is that as water gets lower, at some point (maybe when the Thirsty icon comes up? 65%?) it begins to reduce the stamina regen rate. Then when water hits ~25% you'll start to lose Health points. The much slower stamina regen rate at 25% resulted in only being able to swing a pick half the number of times before running out of stamina as when water was at 100%.

Apologies for confusion!

 

Honestly don't understand it but the Stamina/Food/Water system does seem geared towards penalties if not kept pretty full all the time.

 

Anyway, just a thought.

[FileMachete]

DOn't think water affects max stamina. Just rate of stamina regen.

 

hmm, you may be right Gnomaana, <snip>. I'll have to check it, certainly could have misunderstood how it works

 

Edit: sry LionsDen, that's not what you said in this context. You were saying water impacts stamina regen rate, period, stop.

 

Edit 2: tested & results in post below

[stallionsden]

Isnt the jail door creative only?

 

Yeh and lol. Should still hold out zs lol and me inside em lol. I have zs so they cant destroy blocks lol

[FileMachete]

Very interesting!

 

Console cmd " thirsty " works; drops you down to 25% Water.

 

At 25%, or maybe 24.99%, you start to lose _Health_. You're right Gnomaana, the Stamina pool stayed at 100. And LionsDen you're correct as well, 'really' low Water, like 25% -really- impacts regen rates.

 

So much so that at 25% Water I could only power-strike stone w iron pick 6 times before stamina was too low to allow another swing.

At Water 100% I could perform 12 power-strikes before gassed.

 

That's serious!

 

Good calls guys, appreciate you keeping me honest!

[Drithyl]

We sure do. 1% of 100 is 1 per 1% of fullness. 1% of 150 is 1.5 per 1% of fullness.

 

And who says that the stamina loss is a percentage, and not a flat value? Because if one of the developers himself tells you you don't lose it faster, you either provide solid proof of the opposite or anything you say is all assumptions on your part.

[Drithyl]

Actually there was a difference. In A16 the range of loot offered was different depending on where you looted it. Wall Safe > Gun Safe > Munitions Box > Shotgun Messiah Crate > Hidden Stash.

 

Now, I only need to loot one house and I have everything I need. Why not have the mod system with the parts system but still make it so you still find assembled guns as in A17? The best of both worlds if you will. That way people who like gun parts are happy and people who like full guns are happy. Combined with the mods of A17 and you have a broad range of involvement with your guns. I would also say lower the gun drops, right now you can be swimming in guns and ammo on day one.

 

The first part of your response has nothing to do with gun parts, yet it comes across as if you were using it as a reason to bring back gun parts. Loot tables can also be tweaked and rebalanced with mods so that there's still a need to go into bigger, more dangerous POIs. You can still have your chain of Wall Safe > Gun Safe > Munitions Box > Shotgun Messiah Crate > Hidden Stash, gun parts or no gun parts. Devs have said multiple times that a17 is far from done balance-wise.

 

Parts and mods is a bit redundant, because mods by themselves already improve the performance of guns, not only by the effect of the mod itself, but also because every mod adds to the damage outputs, so in practice, it's exactly like switching a lower quality part for a higher quality part. Not to mention that having both systems at the same time would require an interface overhaul (since mods go in the interface slots that parts used), and another rebalancing. In my opinion, all we need right now is simply tweaking of loot and mod effects, and a larger variety of mods, both of those that improve numbers, and of those that change behaviours. They could also add mods with several tiers of quality, so that you might find a mod that does +25% damage, but down the line you might find the same mod that's of better quality that does +50% damage instead.

[Viperel]

I love the fact that Bicycle or minibike can break those small stone, but they get too much damage in process of doing so. I go little offroad in burnt biome and all I know that my cycle came down 1% on every burning wooden log, which is essentially every 5 second of bike travelling in game. If we are on road we are safe else we lose our vehicle too quickly. Can you reduce the damaage it take from such blocks?

 

Avoiding obstacles might fix your issue...

[trielkee]

Please, leave the friendly Alot out of this! It is a gentle creature and would never reduce your XP.

 

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

 

Now I will picture that magical beast everytime I think of the word. Thanks alot.