Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[FileMachete]

Just a, 'how's it going' ramble, nothing to interesting.

Other than: how cool a boat with some small storage would be for Navezgane map.

 

Navezgane, nomad, 90-min days, morning of day 11, Lvl 25.

Spawned ~1.4km south of Trader on Raner Blvd near Docks in West side of map.

Only rng luck so far was a working forge (pot day 2!) in the old forge house SW of traders, on the lake w central island.

Haven't avoided z's except horde night. Only had 3-4 wandering hordes, 1 at night that I led a merry chase.

Been sticking near home, so only looted the docks & poi's around the lake. ALS Marina was suprisingly basic.

Completed one trader fetch/dig quest. Took me down south to within sight of Gravestown. Z-bear camping site. Took forever to lure him far enough away to dig up chest. Cheated and flew home.

Only other bit of rng love was a T5 machete at traders. Btw, try one. My new, 'in-hand' choice for clearing due to damn vultures.

Haven't found a pot or wrench & only one pair of pants. No MiningHel/wheels/acid, and other than another forge, no working stations.

Looted 4 schematics; one a Bunker Buster which uses a book for icon so no idea what it's for.

Doing ok on meat now, though eggs are lean on the ground. Have 300+ Arrows & 600+ Feathers, 7e Bacon&Egss, no eggs.

Plan is to start looting houses at Raner & 73 to the East. Was hoping to have a bike but no Workstation so hoofing it.

Don't know if smashing drops Mech Parts, so hopefully I can find a couple of wrenchs soon. (1 to make workstation for bike)

Done a fair bit of mining; 15,000+ stone in chest. Haven't been smelting it since forge house is flimsey and not really worth trying to protect from screamers.

So far in Navezgane playthroughs the best poi to set up on that I've found is the small Pass-N-Gas on northern edge of desert, almost due south of Diersville, beside Ansel Adam River. Tough little building. Hoping to find something similar in forest biome.

For day 14 horde I'm thinking of dropping a land claim on the poi that's killed/pissed me off the most, just for some revenge, heh

[Moldy Bread]

It's the same with weapon mods as it is with weapon parts, if you get bored with the game neither one will keep you interested. I just don't see what is so special with one and not the other.

 

Real game changer will be bandits and quests when they polish them some more.

 

Have to agree about the difficulty though, it seems things are repeating again and again regarding toning down mechanics and all around difficulty level.

 

Why can't we have both? I'm looting for everything however guns are more common than water. My issue with the gun system now is the only difference with a level 1 gun and level 6 gun is durability. If you got weapon repair kits then there really is no point in upgrading. With the parts system you worked hard to make your gun better (to make it your own) but now you get guns thrown at you.

 

I know what I am going to get in a Shotgun Messiah, plenty of guns. Before I felt excited to loot as I was not sure what I was going to get. Now it's just... Meh...

 

The mods aren't even that great. Like I said, why not combine both systems? The Starvation Mod did that a while back. I'm sorry I am going on about this a lot but this issue is pretty game destroying for me.

 

(update) yea, I know the higher the gun level the more mods you can put on it. But like I said the mods are kinda underwhelming and not really that much of a reason to go on a dangerous looting run.

[DaVegaNL]

What's the deal with this build freezing my pc completely up upon starting a new game, about 3 times in a row now.. the f.

[trielkee]

Why can't we have both? I'm looting for everything however guns are more common than water. My issue with the gun system now is the only difference with a level 1 gun and level 6 gun is durability. If you got weapon repair kits then there really is no point in upgrading. With the parts system you worked hard to make your gun better (to make it your own) but now you get guns thrown at you.

 

I know what I am going to get in a Shotgun Messiah, plenty of guns. Before I felt excited to loot as I was not sure what I was going to get. Now it's just... Meh...

 

The mods aren't even that great. Like I said, why not combine both systems? The Starvation Mod did that a while back. I'm sorry I am going on about this a lot but this issue is pretty game destroying for me.

 

(update) yea, I know the higher the gun level the more mods you can put on it. But like I said the mods are kinda underwhelming and not really that much of a reason to go on a dangerous looting run.

 

 

Well, I would also like them to keep both, the more complex the better. I just don't see the reasoning behind the mindset that there's nothing left to loot or risk your life for going into a tough POI, because there's plenty.

 

The whole damage per weapon level ordeal is apparently split in the middle in the community. Myself, I don't have a problem with it, a weapon is a weapon so it's logical two identical guns do the exact same damage regardless of their level. That's what different types of ammo are for.

 

All of this will probably change anyway so who knows.

[The Gronk]

Well, I would also like them to keep both, the more complex the better. I just don't see the reasoning behind the mindset that there's nothing left to loot or risk your life for going into a tough POI, because there's plenty.

 

The whole damage per weapon level ordeal is apparently split in the middle in the community. Myself, I don't have a problem with it, a weapon is a weapon so it's logical two identical guns do the exact same damage regardless of their level. That's what different types of ammo are for.

 

All of this will probably change anyway so who knows.

 

I see weapon level as a sort of reverse durability. The lower the level of the weapon the longer it has sat without maintenance and rusted. This would affect the speed and trajectory of the bullet as the barrel no longer provides a tight seal around the bullet and shaking of the frame (as seen in a real AK-47 firing) from worn parts would send the bullet off in a less than perfect direction.

 

How does age affect guns in real life? We don't get to play with many in this country and any I've fired have all been in just about pristine condition.

[FileMachete]

How does age affect guns in real life? We don't get to play with many in this country and any I've fired have all been in just about pristine condition.

 

Most likely impacts of poor maintenance/rough use would be;

 

Poor maintenance:

1) Jamming if auto/semi-auto, due to dried lube, corrosion. Also weak magazine springs could contribute if left fully loaded for years.

2) Only extreme rust would have a serious impact on 'accuracy' at the ranges we're dealing with. So extreme that the weapon would be unsafe to shoot at all. The minor rust you'd likely see after a weapon was stored for years w only light oiling prior to putting away wouldn't have much of an effect. Obviously oceanside vs. desert would make a big difference in rl.

 

Rough use:

1) Aim point shifted from Impact point. Sights knocked out of wack.

2) Sights damaged or loose. Result would be constantly shifting aim-point.

 

Even a WWI rifle that has been heavily used & abused, rifling obviously pitted & worn, can still likely manage 3-5 inch 50 meter groups; assuming sights aren't loose.

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

 

Cheers :-)

 

Always good to learn something new.

[Mechanimal]

Ranger Redd's Dead & Breakfast, Loot-N-Scoot, and other notes from a POI flipper.

 

Just a, 'how's it going' ramble, nothing to interesting.

Other than: how cool a boat with some small storage would be for Navezgane map.

 

Navezgane, nomad, 90-min days, morning of day 11, Lvl 25.

Spawned ~1.4km south of Trader on Raner Blvd near Docks in West side of map.

Only rng luck so far was a working forge (pot day 2!) in the old forge house SW of traders, on the lake w central island.

Haven't avoided z's except horde night. Only had 3-4 wandering hordes, 1 at night that I led a merry chase.

Been sticking near home, so only looted the docks & poi's around the lake. ALS Marina was suprisingly basic.

Completed one trader fetch/dig quest. Took me down south to within sight of Gravestown. Z-bear camping site. Took forever to lure him far enough away to dig up chest. Cheated and flew home.

Only other bit of rng love was a T5 machete at traders. Btw, try one. My new, 'in-hand' choice for clearing due to damn vultures.

Haven't found a pot or wrench & only one pair of pants. No MiningHel/wheels/acid, and other than another forge, no working stations.

Looted 4 schematics; one a Bunker Buster which uses a book for icon so no idea what it's for.

Doing ok on meat now, though eggs are lean on the ground. Have 300+ Arrows & 600+ Feathers, 7e Bacon&Egss, no eggs.

Plan is to start looting houses at Raner & 73 to the East. Was hoping to have a bike but no Workstation so hoofing it.

Don't know if smashing drops Mech Parts, so hopefully I can find a couple of wrenchs soon. (1 to make workstation for bike)

Done a fair bit of mining; 15,000+ stone in chest. Haven't been smelting it since forge house is flimsey and not really worth trying to protect from screamers.

So far in Navezgane playthroughs the best poi to set up on that I've found is the small Pass-N-Gas on northern edge of desert, almost due south of Diersville, beside Ansel Adam River. Tough little building. Hoping to find something similar in forest biome.

For day 14 horde I'm thinking of dropping a land claim on the poi that's killed/pissed me off the most, just for some revenge, heh

 

There is a nice Pass-N-Gas just East of Diersvill, that one is in the forest biome. I usually base up a house in Diersvill, although in in A17 that is 1,000% trickier to accomplish very early game. However if you manage to do so then you are surrounded by awesome POIs with equally awesome loot, and short trips home each time. In A16 I used the Hospital roof on horde nights, spike up and reinforced the lobby and rain down on them through the huge roof window, sparing my base. Do not try this in A17, just, don't, lol, trust me. I did eventually conquer the Hospital in an MP game with 3 others and discovered the lobby is now useless for my old method anyway. But overall Diersvill is a great spot to settle in, then branch out once I get a vehicle, though I've only managed to do so on bicycle so far because of the save wipe from my v197/199 game. About to make a motorcycle in a RWG world now, and although I am excited, I am also bummed that there are no Navezgane destinations to go explore with it.

 

I'm very much a builder, but I always overtake and "flip" a POI for my base, albeit dramatically so, then build BM towers, a full Trader-esque catwalk perimeter, other structures from scratch later in game. Building a base from scratch ruins the immersion for me, makes no sense with so many empty structures available, no one would actually do that. If I want to get really into a remodel and/or BM tower, and/or tunnel system, that's when I used to use the Hospital roof for BMs until they were ready, but again that is now a very, very, bad idea. I used one of the other local house roofs during my first BM in A17, the POI was so full of mines that it sounded like popcorn under my feet on horde night, but it survived, as did I.

 

Overall I love A17, the biggest gripe I had, being a builder, was now needing a tablesaw(it was bugged, fixed now) to make a ton of the blocks I usually use, as well as needing a mixer to make wet block shapes in. I've gotten used to it, just makes building a ton more tedious and keeps the best block shapes out of reach until mid-game, therefor I am very glad I was not a base-from-scratch builder or my annoyance would be 10 fold. But, it's adaptable, and the new POIs are worth it with my play style.

 

There's only one thing that ruins, and I mean just ruins, every base design I have ever made, even in A16: the 4 wide drawbridge. Like, wth, seriously TFP why would you DO that, it never, ever, fits, unless I have it in some obscure side of the house place, or on an entirely separate building I can customize it to. Only one time did I manage to use it in a way I liked, loved actually, and it was by using 2 of them. One of my favorite builds ever, "Ranger Redd's Loot-N-Scoot". If I make a sign you know I'm getting seriously into it. I also like converting those simple lone houses, the 2 story ones that often have the forge, into "Ranger Redd's Dead & Breakfast" in MP games and let noobs and new joins use it early game, especially once I move on, I don't like my main base so far from POI clusters.

 

Anyway, the drawbridges, I had 2 of them close together going sideways over pits right in front of one of those 3 story brick buildings, the ones with stores on the 1st floor and an apartment above it. It was where the "Loot-N-Scoot" name came from, that's how I used it, could enter from one side on minibike, drop my goodies, then go straight back out the other side, it worked awesomely, and lured many Z right into the pits where I wanted them. One other prob with drawbridges that it solved was visibility, instead of a huge wall blocking my view when it was up I now had 2 thin lines I could easily see around to cover my front from ground level, so that was a nice bonus, casually picked off many a screamer from inside thanks to it. Man did I love that base, was my first in-depth game in an RWG. Also my first time getting all into the electrical system, man did I get elaborate, wired the F out of that place. Inside turrets to cover my back when my dumb arse left the drawbridges down and the front door open, which I did repeatedly. Worked great as long as I was not standing in between the turret and it's target, ouch, but we don't talk about that. Had a well placed series of switches to turn on lights and turrets for each building side separately, only when needed to spare the ammo. I could resolve almost any problem without breaking a stride in my daily busy work of organizing, running forges, and crafting, without leaving my main room. Had 2 solar banks up in my roof garden running it all. I was living large in the Zompocalypse, and I am determined to do it again, though I will wait for stable before getting that into a build, and this time I want to do it somewhere in Navezgane. So I'm spending experimental scouting for locations more than anything, there are so many now, it's gleefully overwhelming, real estate christmas.

 

Just, PLEASE guys, pleeeeease fix or add a new drawbridge size. And that new garage door, it'd be great if we could actually make it, can only find in creative menu, and it's hard to determine which way it is facing until you've placed it and opened it. I can deal with all the other changes, in fact I prefer it all, you've seriously upped the game:) My late game bases are going to be beautiful, elaborate, luxurious middle fingers to the end of the world.

[Lonestarcanuck]

BUG or FEATURE?

 

STEEL Boots Level 5 - have 1 Mod slot

IRON Boots Level 3 - have 2 Mod slots

[jdizzy2010]

BUG or FEATURE?

 

STEEL Boots Level 5 - have 1 Mod slot

IRON Boots Level 3 - have 2 Mod slots

I think it is random. I made a bunch of stuff with different number of mod slots. Some blues have 1 and even zero.

[The Gronk]

BUG or FEATURE?

 

STEEL Boots Level 5 - have 1 Mod slot

IRON Boots Level 3 - have 2 Mod slots

 

Bug I think.

 

As far as I know mod-slots = level -1

[SnowDog1942]

Are you looting only for guns?

 

Apparently gun parts. With all this crying about gun parts.. I'm considering making a game where you do nothing but go around and collect gun parts. It will sell like hot-cakes.

 

Apparently there is a massive surge of adrenaline in people when they find that special rifle stock that's 587 instead of 582 -- knowing that THOSE 5 points on your stock has totally changed your character, playstyle, and survivability.

[The Gronk]

Apparently gun parts. With all this crying about gun parts.. I'm considering making a game where you do nothing but go around and collect gun parts. It will sell like hot-cakes.

 

Apparently there is a massive surge of adrenaline in people when they find that special rifle stock that's 587 instead of 582 -- knowing that THOSE 5 points on your stock has totally changed your character, playstyle, and survivability.

 

Have you played Borderlands? That happens :-)

[SnowDog1942]

Have you played Borderlands? That happens :-)

 

Yes, but for some odd reason after beating all 3 of them I've never found gun parts, just guns.

[DaVegaNL]

Apparently gun parts. With all this crying about gun parts.. I'm considering making a game where you do nothing but go around and collect gun parts. It will sell like hot-cakes.

 

Apparently there is a massive surge of adrenaline in people when they find that special rifle stock that's 587 instead of 582 -- knowing that THOSE 5 points on your stock has totally changed your character, playstyle, and survivability.

 

Lol yup. And if all the individual gun parts are not even numbers THE GAME IS RUINED!! RUINED I TELL YOU.

[Bifferd]

Hey MM I was wondering could you guys make it so that after you harvest your crop you need a hoe to gather the seed from the ground. I found it way to easy to accidentally gather my seed too while this is not a game breaker by any means it is a bit annoying. Thanks so much for the continued hard work I think A17e is very fun so far.

[SnowDog1942]

Hey MM I was wondering could you guys make it so that after you harvest your crop you need a hoe to gather the seed from the ground. I found it way to easy to accidentally gather my seed too while this is not a game breaker by any means it is a bit annoying. Thanks so much for the continued hard work I think A17e is very fun so far.

 

Hell my hoe is automatic -- right now in the kitchen makin me lunch.

[The Gronk]

Yes, but for some odd reason after beating all 3 of them I've never found gun parts, just guns.

 

The sarcasm is appreciated but you know what I mean. :-)

 

It's the collectors instinct, most visible in the Train-Spotting community (the activity, not the film) where what is being collected is nothing more than an engine number. This has been used to great effect in games, whether accidentally or intentionally, for decades from Borderlands to Candy Crush.

[SnowDog1942]

Lol yup. And if all the individual gun parts are not even numbers THE GAME IS RUINED!! RUINED I TELL YOU.

 

OMG I was wrong... I got back to A16.... and I just replaced my 457 long gun barrell with a 469... HOW EFFING COOL IS THAT?

[FileMachete]

@The Gronk,

 

To be clear your 1st paragraph, in a more game-centric sense isn't off base. Like the AK; it wasn't designed as a tack driver but was specifically designed to be cheap, durable, very reliable & easy to make w large parts from sheet metal, etc. The rl degradation from abuse/no maintenance of an AK vs. a precision bolt gun isn't at all similar. And our current AR platform, though 'mil-spec', isn't as 'tough' as an AK. Add in that a cheap 'anything that goes bang' is, in general, going to be less accurate. Likely of a less robust design, and won't hold up to abuse as well as more expensive make/model would.

 

Anyway. In general it would, to me, be more immersive/accurate to have more platforms to progress up through. Saturday night special 'junk' pistol, then maybe a 'cheap' pocket .380, then our current 9mm. Add a 1911 .45. Desert Eagle .357Mag. That kind of thing.

 

There is a nice Pass-N-Gas just East of Diersvill, that one is in the forest biome.<snip>

 

Nice post & good read Mechanimal

 

Couldn't agree more about drawbridge, sigh. Besides a 3-wide for minis/motos, not sure but think the 4x4 will fit too? I'd really like to see a 1-wide by 4-long one added for walk-in access.

 

I know which Pass-N-Gas you mean. It is good though quite a bit larger than the small one, so would be more work in SP to layer up defenses than I'm hoping for. But I haven't seen any 'perfect' candidates in middle of forest biome.

 

Hell my hoe is automatic -- right now in the kitchen makin me lunch.

 

Damn! <lol> somebodies sleeping on the sofa for a week! :D

[HungryZombie]

There isn't one. Some will say mods. But even without mods a level 5 sniper or smg is good enough to take on ferals provided you have bullets.

 

Without mods what difference is there between a level 1 and level 5 sniper rifle? Why is a level 5 one all you need? Is it the extra durability that makes the difference from a level 1 gun?

[FileMachete]

Without mods what difference is there between a level 1 and level 5 sniper rifle? Why is a level 5 one all you need? Is it the extra durability that makes the difference from a level 1 gun?

 

So far Durability & number of Mod slots seem to be the only differences.

 

And w firearms having multiple thousands of durability, that alone doesn't intice me to 'upgrade' unless I loot it.

 

Lower Durability but heavy use items like axe, pick, melee weapon; for those more durability is worth an upgrade as it comes. At least to me since it means I can likely save a backpack spot by not having to pack around repair mats.

[JaxTeller718]

All of these complaints on building and the forge has me cooking up an idea.

 

Why not unlock that forge on day one. Let them have it. They can make concrete on day one, cement mix etc. Lock the tools if need be.

 

BUT

 

consolidate the build path. Force the concrete builders to go through the wood path first then the scrap path into cobble and then concrete. Their only limitation then is how hard they work to get it done.

 

I've always felt wood should be sustainable for a few days. It's a survival game right? Wood shacks/shelters should be the first thing people try to make. Followed by upgrading it.

[FileMachete]

All of these complaints on building and the forge has me cooking up an idea.

 

Why not unlock that forge on day one. Let them have it. They can make concrete on day one, cement mix etc. Lock the tools if need be.

 

BUT

 

consolidate the build path. Force the concrete builders to go through the wood path first then the scrap path into cobble and then concrete. Their only limitation then is how hard they work to get it done.

 

I've always felt wood should be sustainable for a few days. It's a survival game right? Wood shacks/shelters should be the first thing people try to make. Followed by upgrading it.

 

Adding in the Scrap part would just be mean Iron is pretty darn scarce in early game. But somehow I think you know that Jax <ha!>

 

But I have always wondered why 'wood' was basically just for internals. I think if it were a viable very early game build then it would add to progression.

 

Personally I'd rather see additional Stations like you & WoW do. A Primitive Forge to cook Iron. Advanced Smelter for Steel. I'm okay with slower progession if there's still -progression-. Atm it feels like there's a fair number of 'bits' missing that would/could liven up early game while still having something to work for in middle & late game.

[DaVegaNL]

Hell my hoe is automatic -- right now in the kitchen makin me lunch.

 

On the edge mate, on the edge.

 

If you don't learn respect I'll let my pet granite loose on ya!