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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I thought the new zombie A.I. was supposed to reck poi's if you tried to hide on the roof during horde nights? From my playthrough and every content creator I've watched, I haven't seen this behavior reach a level where they are a real threat to taken down poi's.

 

You haven't watched Bacon Creepy yet and his demonstration of them destroying the base he had on top of the Navesgane hospital then. They went berserk and pretty much demolished it whilst he watched from the roof. On you tube recorded during the stream weekend.

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You still don't get it. Guns are common scrapables now. High level guns are more rare, and what you are looting for is the mods. I've got two mods on my compound bow now and its easily twice as effective, and I just found a mod for my axe that adds 50% more wood damage.

 

You are all about the common guns, BUT you should be all about the mods.

 

Mods are icing on a cake. What YOU should be all about are the perks. THAT is where your true power comes from, not mods.

 

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You haven't watched Bacon Creepy yet and his demonstration of them destroying the base he had on top of the Navesgane hospital then. They went berserk and pretty much demolished it whilst he watched from the roof. On you tube recorded during the stream weekend.

 

So you have to intentionally NOT build a horde base properly to get wrecked.

 

And this is supposed to be an example of how better that AI is? The fact remains its not difficult at ALL to combate a horde night. The only people who will struggle are the ones who hid on roofs.

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Regarding the blood moon horde night, is there a reason the horde is limited to a certain amount of zombies per night?

 

I know the amount of zombies is limited per player on the server, depending on the settings, but isn't it possible to make it so they keep spawning until 04:00?

 

In a few streams I watched A17 is the same as A16, they stop spawning after 01:00 if killed. Can't the game just keep spawning new zombies every hour or so? For example, there are 32 zombies (depending on settings) attacking, you kill 20 of them, and next hour 20 spawn in. So they keep spawning and filling the void until 04:00 when they stop spawning.

 

There are probably some good reasons for this, some limitations, but was just wondering.

 

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So, if I didn't take perk, the Blade trap won't do dismemberment too? or will they work irrespective of if I have perk or not.

 

That I don't know, have not tested it.

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Mods are icing on a cake. What YOU should be all about are the perks. THAT is where your true power comes from, not mods.

 

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So you have to intentionally NOT build a horde base properly to get wrecked.

 

And this is supposed to be an example of how better that AI is? The fact remains its not difficult at ALL to combate a horde night. The only people who will struggle are the ones who hid on roofs.

 

The OP question was regarding whether the zombies switched to destruct mode if they couldn't reach you through pathing. The answer is yes they do. Although, I must say there are a few bases being built that are using the pathing AI to game the zombies, Red Eagle for one. Nice work too, although must have taken him some time to build. Certainly not for first couple of horde nights anyway.

 

And you are correct, it's not difficult to combat a horde night, even easier for wandering hordes, even dogs and or fat woman, lol.

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I don't think you get it. What I am saying is why not have both systems?

 

You seriously think they are going to dig out the old code they replaced and rewrite it to fit it back in after a year and a half of developement to put it back in because you don't like the change?

 

I'd say just go back to a16 if you like it so much, because they have bigger fish to fry.. like the game crashing, server issues, connection issues, performance issues, balancing, and completing the weapon and tool mods that aren't even in yet because they aren't done.

 

Looking at the list of things they hope to complete before Christmas, I don't think they could even consider looking at a massive change like this till spring next year at the earliest, and they've already said this is what they are happy with and what they are moving forward with.

 

Maybe you just need to make a mod with everything you want put back in?

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Seeing as A17 has a ton of improvements I doubt he will go back to A16 just for the weapon parts, and I understand why it bothers him, noone likes to see a feature they like removed from the game, but I doubt they will ever consider bringing it back in, it just doesn't fit in anymore.

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I just saw in another thread that server/clients both need the prefab files now in A17 unlike A16 when additional prefabs are used.

 

Is this a known bug or do we need a report? Or is it working as intended with A17? (please tell me no)

 

I sure hope that's just a bug that will be fixed if it's true. That would ruin having CompoPack or any other non-vanilla prefabs on my server

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Exactly. I really don't see much of a change other than that I'l looking for something different than before. You could combine crap in the workbench before so there wasn't really ANY hunting for high level guns.. you just made them from all the low level stuff you found.

 

Now you have to work harder to find high quality mods which could add a whole different type on gunplay.

 

I think we have to set realistic expectations which requests for changes.

 

Kind of like melee... I see where they are going, and asked for enhancements to it like a near miss perk, or or partial damage with a off target swing as long as you are in proximity. Those sound like additions to the new system instead of cutting it and going back to out of date code.

 

Another perk might be a multiple hit perk, where a melee swing could hit mutiple zombies for damage so long as they are in proximinty of the swing. More perk variety isn't a bad thing at all.

 

One thing I am noticing though is level gating on perks is hampering diverse play styles... for instance, I found all the minibike parts in looting on day one. The minibike building perk is gated behind intellegence, level 6, which is gated behind level 40.

 

I haven't cared either way if level gating is in or not but in this example, e can see that the level and perk gating combined is hampering more diverse gameplay. I should have been able to just unlock the minibike building perk, and after finding a working workbench, just assemble it.

 

That would make for a different earlier game, having the minibike, but with little capability to find fuel or craft it.

 

The same thing I think could also happen finding the hog, 4x4, or gyrocopter parts.

 

I do think the zombies are too easy in this last update, but xp from them feels fine.. if they were tougher again, getting that xp from them would be slower and tougher. I could turn up difficulty higher than nomad, but then I'd be getting more of the later game ferals spitting cops, irradiated and such as well.

 

Maybe we need two game settings in the menu for zombie difficulty instead of just 5 difficulty levels?

 

One for zombie strength and durability, and another for gamestage level adjustment? That way we could have just tougher zombies like 199, or easier zombies with more later stage iterations.

 

I think what is making people say that the zombie xp needs to be nerfed is because the xp gain is based on them being tougher in 199. If they are made easier, then the xp probably also needs to be adjusted down for balance, and visa versa if they are made tougher, xp needs to be higher to make the struggle more worth it.

 

On day 15 I'm having no issues mining with a combo of perks and found mods, so I think the mining comments aren't warranted.

 

We are all still learning the new systems, and how they work together.

 

I did stumble across a easy horde defense strategy to survive a horde night on 14, and I'm hoping to try it out on 21 before the next update.

 

I went to the top of one of those crumbled high rises, and took out the top two stairs so thy couldn't get up. I placed two spiked fences at the top to prevent jumpers. (Spiders could probably leap over them.) I went back down and placed a ladder on the side to get back up, without the bottom two ladders, and nerd poled up to the ladder, taking the frames with me.

 

The horde would run up the stairs and then just fall back down again in a loop, and I could just stand at the top taking pot shots at them. In later game adding killing traps and building something like this at a base might be fun.

 

I DO hope that we start getting at least partial xp from trap kills because technically those are "our" kills from unlocking perks, scavenging resources, and crafting and maintaining traps. Maybe 1/4? That way we'd at least get something making building them more enriching, and encouraging us to build more defenses earn xp at the later game stages. And of course this should then extend to party members as well, so the builder doesn't earn while people doing other tasks are left out in the cold.

 

About shared xp: Do party members get 100% xp from other member kills, or a percentage? IMHO, they should get 50% or less than the full xp earned.... enough to make it worth staying in proximity, but not so much that party members power level, artificially inflating gamestage.

 

Again I'd like to see party xp sharing range increased with each additional party member, or maybe individual "lone wolf" perks to extend our personal party range?

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You can't make zombies tougher than they are now. Sure, you can make them take more hits but where's the fun in zombie sponges? No matter how hard zombies hit and how fast they come back up or if they got different speeds of movement, walkers will always be easy to deal with. They can always surround you when indoors, but that depends more on the POI design.

 

The only true threat are and always will be runners, but there's an option for that so everyone can enjoy what they like.

 

I'd add massive amount of zombies as a threat, but I don't see this happening in a voxel world.

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But having gun parts could be an added extra, improving the whole thing overall even if just slightly.

I don't think you get it. What I am saying is why not have both systems?

Parts can be a steady increase to get the most out of your gun whilst mods are the icing on the cake. Why not incorporate both? You still find assembled guns but the parts can be improved. It just adds a extra juicy layer to gun modding and function.

How? Increasing your quality increased all aspects of the gun, the mods are selective. Why not have both?

Now, I only need to loot one house and I have everything I need. Why not have the mod system with the parts system but still make it so you still find assembled guns as in A17?

Besides, why can't we have both a parts system and mods? Like I said in my OP, you will still find assembled guns.

I have, it's just not interesting to me. Making tokens is easy and getting parts is also easy. Once I got a gun... That's it, there's nothing more to it.

So my idea is why not add parts back in and find (mostly) assembled guns? This way you still get to find complete guns and still get to upgrade them in a more in-depth way.

The mods aren't even that great. Like I said, why not combine both systems?

I am hoping there can be a way to mod the parts system from A16 into A17, because right now there's not much reason to loot any of the big places.

A16 had the superior leveling system. I cannot see why that could not be brought over and enhanced. (along with gun parts...)

At least with the gun parts you had progression and could use those parts to repair your guns.

Have them fully assembled (maybe make parts too damaged to use and in need of repair) but still with parts?

Here's an idea, why not have the gun part system but you can still find fully assembled guns?

Still can't see why we can't have gun parts and mods.

There are a lot of good reasons to forget the gun parts and move on, but your obsessive emphasis is probably the first :smile-new:.

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Probably my biggest gripe in this current alpha patch is the way Stamina is handled, both expenditure and regeneration. Back in A16, at the high end, I could go practically non-stop with a steel pickaxe, but not in A17. More realistic, possibly, but also more annoying. Sitting around waiting for stamina to regen is a bore. In A16 there were both a regen perk and tool/weapon expenditure perks (I realize mods account for the latter in part but they are not unlimited in quantity).

 

On top of that, the only stamina regen perk at current is tied to sprinting. Sprinting, the thing you will only really do for the first 30 levels of the game, after which you get access to bicycles and begin the motorized transport path which makes running all-but obsolete as a primary means of travel. And because this is now tied to a Perk, rather than finding a blueprint by sheer luck, literally everyone will do this unless they are choosing to challenge themselves by not. Ergo, by the time this perk really starts to come into its own, it will largely stop mattering. (It's also a point that cardio workouts are about improving stamina during all physical activity, not just when running.) I've been modifying this manually with each new test build, but I worry about its application in MP if it's not a codified thing. (Regen when walking or idle, +10-50%; I'm at rank 3 in the current game and it still drains, if slowly.)

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There are a lot of good reasons to forget the gun parts and move on, but your obsessive emphasis is probably the first :smile-new:.

 

No, I have a strong opinion and I will continue to share it, I also know I am not alone in this. I just simply do not like this dumbed down system.

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On day 15 I'm having no issues mining with a combo of perks and found mods, so I think the mining comments aren't warranted.

Sounds like you like to start out with looting, exploring and killing zombies the two first weeks.

I personally like to find a POI, fortify it with resources that i find in near area, Finding water and food and when im settled down (usually after day 7) I start to explore and loot the nearest city. Which means that in ae17 I am at around lvl 10-12 first week and have no mods.

 

 

About shared xp: Do party members get 100% xp from other member kills, or a percentage? IMHO, they should get 50% or less than the full xp earned.... enough to make it worth staying in proximity, but not so much that party members power level, artificially inflating gamestage.

I think that is a good idea otherwise it will become the new auger power level.

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No, I have a strong opinion and I will continue to share it, I also know I am not alone in this. I just simply do not like this dumbed down system.

 

My own opinion here, but when I first started playing and encountered the "gun parts" system, I had an immediate and distinct reaction. "Oh. That's dumb."

 

I just didn't like it, and it wasn't immersive. Why did I just find 3 gun barrels and the several different kinds of shotgun stocks? Are people really leaving disassembled guns all over the place? Wow, 3 more short barrels, I guess I will start another chest for shotgun parts. I ended up stock piling them, assembling the best gun I could and constantly filled my bags with incomplete guns on the way to the trader, or trying to optimize my storage by partially assembling guns while looting places. It was awkward in my opinion.

 

I would agree that I might be finding "too many" guns now, depending on how RNG is feeling that day. In the first week I had 3-4 hunting rifles, and maybe a half dozen shot guns. I repaired them, got like 5k in my first trader run. Which may be fair, stuff is expensive.

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Regarding the blood moon horde night, is there a reason the horde is limited to a certain amount of zombies per night?

 

I think this is just a fast-and-easy solution until they have a real and balanced solution in place. At least it makes sure that you aren't punished for killing the zombies faster.

If zombies were endlessly replaced whenever they died (so that always 8 zombies are attacking per player) someone killing the zombies faster would have to kill a lot more zombies. Sure, that also means more xp at the moment, but then the best strategy would be to just slow down the zombies as much as possible and shoot only the better zombies until you have only lowest-level zombies alive and then (!!) keep those alive.

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No, I have a strong opinion and I will continue to share it, I also know I am not alone in this. I just simply do not like this dumbed down system.

 

Well, if everyone did this, the forum would be full with posters endlessly repeating their pet peeve. Gets old fast, even if only one person does it.

 

Doing the "I want this, I want this, I want this..." routine that childs are so good at doesn't scale well to a forum where hundreds of people have strong opinions about how the game should be changed. Do it too much and you get on the nerves of everyone and finally get ignored by everyone.

 

My personal opinion on this is that there is zero chance you get what you want in vanilla because TFP likes the current system and it is possible to mod the game so gun parts are in much like in A16. Wait for a mod if you can't mod yourself, eventually there will be one I'm sure.

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