Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[vitamin]

Sorry, instead of "assume 1" I should have said "use 1 as an example". I know that 1 is too much, but it showed the principle and made calculation easy.

 

I'm still not sure what numbers you are talking about. As I shown from the experiment, 1% of fullness is way more than 100 spent stamina. Unfortunately I can't find this relation anywhere in the XMLs.

[wolffblood]

the moment I'm rewatching neebsgaming and I keep saying to power attack x.x

[FileMachete]

Just my opinion but I think it would improve gameplay & feel more rational if Stamina behaved kind of like this;

 

No change to regen rate or Stamina pool size until Water or Food dropped to 50%.

 

Regen rate starts to slow down at Water = 50%, at Water = 25% regen rate is 1/2, at Water = 0% regen rate is 1/4

 

Stamina pool size starts to shrink at Food = 50%, at Food = 25% pool size has been reduced by ~25%, at Food = 0% pool size has reduced by 75%

 

Could change the pool size reductions to integer values to incentivize buying the Attribute that adds +10 to pool size.

 

Thoughts behind this are;

 

1) I'd prefer not to be constantly managing Food/Water. The oversaturation definately helps but still more micro-management than I'd prefer.

2) No impact until F/W drop to 50% helps w #1 and would also open up the choice to say take on a POI with F/W at 60%, still full size pool and fastest regen but also room to eat/drink for Health regen without as much 'waste'.

3) Just seems more rational to me. 2 hours after lunch I don't feel as if I only have a 1/3 of the energy I had right after eating. 4 hours after eating, if I've been working out or backpacking, yeah I'm real hungry, but not to the point of basically crawling, heh

[beerfly]

Me - "I don't need the meat and the boar will probably kill me so I should leave it alone"

 

Boar - "oink" (which for some reason enrages me)

 

Me "Die!" (shoots arrow)

 

Boar - charges

 

Me "Oh F..."

 

stupid death #11

 

He liked you. He winked you. He gave you his love.

[Drithyl]

And I was talking about stamina cap reduced at progressively higher rate due to hunger with higher max stamina.

 

See the rest of my post. I think you guys are under the wrong assumption that hunger decreases stamina cap, when it was stated to get reduced by stamina usage.

[JaxTeller718]

* Singleplayer

* Insane

* 60 minute days

* Daylight 12 Hours

* Allways run

* 25% loot

* Loot respawn 50 Days

* Blood moon count 64

* No airdrops

 

* Death is Death

* No use of repair

* No Gardening

 

If you say yes to all and you still say its too easy i guess you are not very honest

 

Why because YOU cant do it babycakes?

 

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How many times have I said "both"? We can have both.

 

Don't pay any mind, casuals love to bully people with their opinions on making gameplay simpler and easier to access, usually to the point that a game becomes a former shell of itself. Seen it so many times in EA and so far this one had been able to avoid these pitfalls. HAD been.

[vitamin]

See the rest of my post. I think you guys are under the wrong assumption that hunger decreases stamina cap, when it was stated to get reduced by stamina usage.

 

You should probably play A17E instead of reading between the lines on this forum. Those are not assumptions, but the actual A17E game mechanics.

The way it works - anything that's using stamina decreases fullness (food). And fullness (food) sets maximum usable stamina.

[Drithyl]

Why because YOU cant do it babycakes?

 

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Don't pay any mind, casuals love to bully people with their opinions on making gameplay simpler and easier to access, usually to the point that a game becomes a former shell of itself. Seen it so many times in EA and so far this one had been able to avoid these pitfalls. HAD been.

 

Oh, here we go, someone throwing around the term "casuals". Is this gonna turn into a civil war between "casuals" and "hardcore players", or however you want to call yourself? That doesn't help anyone and is honestly childish. Different people will play differently and not everyone has to be a hardcore professional player to be allowed to enjoy a game. It is precisely because games have reached a wider audience that the game industry has grown and that we have the chance to have indie gems like this one see the light on a more regular basis.

 

If the devs had to update their game to increase its difficulty each time a new player beats the challenge, it would be neverending (I'm sure that would please these players, but I doubt the devs would want to get stuck doing that). There's no reason why a game can't cater to casuals (lower difficulties) while also raising the bar for hardcore players. For anything beyond, though, there's mods. There's always going to be someone who finds it too easy, no matter how many levels of difficulty or options the devs add. It's much simpler for them to design a reasonable number of difficulties and to delegate the most hardcore experiences to modders like you.

[canadianbluebeer]

He liked you. He winked you. He gave you his love.

 

They seem to like arrows. The bacon pincushion effect was amusing. (4 arrows sticking out of him when he died, but took 8 to kill it)

Thick skin indeed.

[meganoth]

I'm still not sure what numbers you are talking about. As I shown from the experiment, 1% of fullness is way more than 100 spent stamina. Unfortunately I can't find this relation anywhere in the XMLs.

 

I made a calculation where 1% fullness is max stamina multiplied by 1. Your experiment showed that if it works like I assumed, 1% fullness would be max stamina multiplied by 3.75.

 

But it really doesn't matter if we calculate with 1 or 3.75, the result will be exactly the same: With 130 max stamina you have 50% more stamina at your disposal.

 

With 1 it was just easier to calculate. Mmmh, time for a practical experiment. Will be back in half an hour with some results I hope

[SnowDog1942]

Oh, here we go, someone throwing around the term "casuals". Is this gonna turn into a civil war between "casuals" and "hardcore players", or however you want to call yourself? That doesn't help anyone and is honestly childish. Different people will play differently and not everyone has to be a hardcore professional player to be allowed to enjoy a game. It is precisely because games have reached a wider audience that the game industry has grown and that we have the chance to have indie gems like this one see the light on a more regular basis.

 

If the devs had to update their game to increase its difficulty each time a new player beats the challenge, it would be neverending (I'm sure that would please these players, but I doubt the devs would want to get stuck doing that). There's no reason why a game can't cater to casuals (lower difficulties) while also raising the bar for hardcore players. For anything beyond, though, there's mods. There's always going to be someone who finds it too easy, no matter how many levels of difficulty or options the devs add. It's much simpler for them to design a reasonable number of difficulties and to delegate the most hardcore experiences to modders like you.

 

The funny thing - he thinks people are "casual" because they think gun parts are stupid. LOL! I can probably wipe the floor with him in 50 different shooters but since I don't like gun parts I'm "casual". He is a tough guy because he made a mod I guess.

[Drithyl]

You should probably play A17E instead of reading between the lines on this forum. Those are not assumptions, but the actual A17E game mechanics.

The way it works - anything that's using stamina decreases fullness (food). And fullness (food) sets maximum usable stamina.

 

I ran a test to double-check (I have been playing A17E, thank you very much, just didn't really focus on figuring out how that worked so far), and 20 minutes into a fresh game without moving and neither hunger nor the stamina cap got lowered. I didn't know you couldn't die of hunger if you just sat still.

 

Then I walked around for a few minutes, which doesn't consume stamina, and again, neither the cap nor hunger went down at all, still at 100.

 

Then I ran for a few stamina bars, and both food and stamina cap went down, although not exactly by the same amount (stamina cap seemed to be lower than hunger by 1 for every other run, which could either mean that it's not hunger that lowers the cap, or that there's some decimal rounding: https://imgur.com/a/XLLGhQE).

 

Either way, coming back to your initial question of what's the point of raising stamina: there's still a point. It might degrade at the same rate even with higher stamina, but you still get the advantage of longer stamina bursts without having to wait for it to be restored, i.e. less total waiting time (which can save your life when running away from something, for instance, and makes gathering less grindy).

 

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The funny thing - he thinks people are "casual" because they think gun parts are stupid. LOL! I can probably wipe the floor with him in 50 different shooters but since I don't like gun parts I'm "casual". He is a tough guy because he made a mod I guess.

 

The best way to prevent things devolving into a "you're more casual than me" or "you're a masochist because you're hardcore" or something like that isn't exactly to taunt people saying you can wipe the floor with them in 50 different shooters. Your attitude is just as childish as his.

[FileMachete]

Not sure I'm fully understanding what you guys are discussing but maybe these pics are useful?

 

 

After resting. Stamina is as high at it will go.

[KRISMA]

@KRISMA,

 

When I tunnelled into an iron ore vein I had sand and couple ore blocks collapse. Only collapsed about 6 high then it stopped, even though there was more sand/ore up to the surface (another 30 blocks).

Went into godmode, took a side on screen shot and filed a bug report (b208). I think there were a couple reports filed for earlier experimentals, but it's not on the Known list and so far my report hasn't had a tester add a comment.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?96766-Alpha-17-Experimental-B208-bug-reporting-thread&p=890268&viewfull=1#post890268

 

Haven't had any cave ins in Stone. Though largest unsupported I've mined is a 5x7 room.

---

XP pop-up icon.

For right now I like it; let's me see that the Biker/VaCa-Cop are worth 1200 but Edgar & Fat Mama are only worth base 700. See how much xp for upgrading or mining, etc.

But I'd also prefer far fewer knock-downs. Then, if XP popup goes away, then the rarer knockdown could be a faker and a nasty suprise. Though to be fair I have noticed that the machete rarely knocks em down.

Long term, once the 'xp per X' is stabilized it could go away. Though a toggle would be nice.

 

thank for yor reply :-)

[DaVegaNL]

I'm the most hardcore, since I study rockcores for a living.. and you know, rocks.. hard..

 

 

Never mind, I'll let myself out.

[beerfly]

I'm the most hardcore, since I study rockcores for a living.. and you know, rocks.. hard..

 

 

Never mind, I'll let myself out.

 

You`d better be that. Or we`ll start callin you Pebbleman.

[wolffblood]

I'd have to do tests myself (not sure when I could), but I thought it was

 

current max stam = total max stam * food

 

so say 50% food, it'd be

50 current max if total max is 100,

100 current max if total max is 200,

etc etc etc

 

so 87% (from picture above), it'd be

87 current max if total max is 100,

174 current max if total is 200.

etc etc etc

 

It always seems the current max will drop faster the higher your total max is, however, it means you can do actions longer regardless. Thing is, I don't know the relation of how quick food drops. Will it drop faster with higher total max stam due to not having to stop as often to wait for it to come back? Or does it drop equal rates? If so, it's still seems worse when you drop current max stam so much faster the higher your total stam since all we really see right off is the integer drops being larger instead of percentages.

 

---added---

btw, is there a way to increase general stam regen over the 10/s?

[vitamin]

Either way, coming back to your initial question of what's the point of raising stamina: there's still a point. It might degrade at the same rate even with higher stamina, but you still get the advantage of longer stamina bursts without having to wait for it to be restored, i.e. less total waiting time (which can save your life when running away from something, for instance, and makes gathering less grindy).

 

You are correct. Higher max stamina is useful, especially dealing with groups of ferals.

 

I wanted to point out that with a higher max stamina there is a higher penalty for actually using stamina and getting hungry.

 

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Not sure I'm fully understanding what you guys are discussing but maybe these pics are useful?

Correct, this is what I'm talking about. That food (fullness) sets the usable stamina cap. I don't want to use "max stamina" term as it's already used.

[DaVegaNL]

You`d better be that. Or we`ll start callin you Pebbleman.

 

Don't be so hard on me, man.

[vitamin]

What it boils down, is the "simple" system isn't so simple, and doesn't work as expected. Also it's heavily penalizes players on both ends.

 

On top of that, the only ways to increase stamina regeneration are all temporary with heavy consequences. And none of the perks actually affects base stamina regeneration.

[beerfly]

Don't be so hard on me, man.

 

One word. Diamonds. And you are the geologist here.

 

[FileMachete]

Quick Mining test of Stone Axe vs. Iron Pickaxe showed;

{Att:Strength=lvl-4, Miner 69er=lvl-2, Mother Lode=lvl-2}

 

Stone Axe: 34 Stone, 1 Iron Ore <-- Normal swings. 25 hits per block.

Iron Pickaxe: 67 Stone, 2 Iron Ore <-- No Power Attacks, normal swings. 22 hits per block.

Iron Pickaxe: 67 Stone, 2 Iron Ore <-- All Power Attacks. 8 hits per block.

 

With current Perks, and Food/Water at ~100, was able to fully harvest 500hp stone blocks without swing being paused due to 'Out of Stamina'. Was right at the edge though.

 

Too close to be sure but mining three blocks in a row seemed like a wash time-wise between normal & power-attacks with Iron Pickaxe. Only noticable 'better-ness' is lower Repair material cost using power-attacks.

 

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What it boils down, is the "simple" system isn't so simple, and doesn't work as expected. Also it's heavily penalizes players on both ends.

 

On top of that, the only ways to increase stamina regeneration are all temporary with heavy consequences. And none of the perks actually affects base stamina regeneration.

 

Yep, pretty much

 

And digging into it you trigger the hidden DeBuff, "Migraine!"

[meganoth]

Ok, made a practical test now:

 

Started a new game to be exactly at max stamina, used creative mode to get a steel pickaxe and xp if necessary. Then power-swung the pickaxe a number of times in the air until my food was at 97. The third time I did nothing for about the same time I needed for the other tests. Here are the results:

 

Test 100:

Start with 100 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes and 16 swings reached 97 max Stamina and 97 Food

 

Test 130:

Start with 130 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes and 20 swings reached 126 max Stamina and 97 Food

 

Test Zero:

Start with 100 max Stam and 100 Food. After 2 minutes doing nothing still had 100 max Stamina and 100 Food

 

 

Results:

1) Do nothing and you will consume (practically) nothing. See also Drithyls 20 minutes of doing nothing showed the same over a much longer duration

 

2) If you have 130 stamina instead of 100 stamina you (obviously) can spend 30% more stamina before being exhausted. But above shows that you also can make slightly more total swings for 3% food and you obviously have A LOT more swings you can do until you reach 97 max Stamina.

 

3) Since the total swings for 3% food at 130 max Stamina is roughly 16% more, your metabolism is actually burning food 16% more effectively than with 100 max Stamina.

 

BUT:

Since stamina usage per swing might be random, the 16% above could be just random fluctuation. Multiple tests would be necessary to make this really stick, but thats enough testing from me.

 

BUTBUT: Whether the 16% are there or not, you still have two advantages from 130 stamina and not a single disadvantage!

[ReDelicious]

TFP are planning on making 300 new mods for clothes and weapons. That will probably satisfy most player to keep looting and exploring.. if its balanced right.

 

Also legendary loot if that's still in the pipeline.

[cookyman]

* Singleplayer

* Insane

* 60 minute days

* Daylight 12 Hours

* Allways run

* 25% loot

* Loot respawn 50 Days

* Blood moon count 64

* No airdrops

 

* Death is Death

* No use of repair

* No Gardening

 

If you say yes to all and you still say its too easy i guess you are not very honest

 

I meant with a new level of difficulty that the zombies and so much more

not that I have to adjust the game itself, the server goes into the modded category.

 

I do not want that the server goes into the modded category.