This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[youcantgetridofme]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:13 PM, meganoth said:

There is a rule on this board against openly discussing moderator decisions. If you really really think you have been unfairly banned, contact a moderator (me, Roland or whoever you want) directly, but not with "i said, he said" stuff. Post a link to the discussion for which you were banned (if you know which one) or a list of discussions you were in before you were banned. (Note that moderation can take time, you might have been banned for posts that happened hours or even days ago)

 

[deleted. Please do not discuss moderation here]

 

On 8/8/2022 at 12:13 PM, meganoth said:

I actually did. And let me tell you, on this board some of the people on both sides of the discussion there would have been warned and their posts deleted or edited. Matt115 is quite right, because we here have less posts and more ways to penalize users we can keep discussions much more polite here.

That's probably what should have happened, but that is not what happened because I am not there and the people who were involved in trolling, baiting and all the rest are still there doing the same things they were doing prior the events that unfolded. It was bias. Simple as that. To control an open discussion atmosphere in this way is to be a dictator, but hey, that's just my opinion. Matt115 is also only right to an extent. If you see the broader spectrum of things, it's not always so and not every situation should be treated the same.

 

On 8/8/2022 at 12:13 PM, meganoth said:

Valid point. Though I have seen grey-area insulting posts there yesterday on both sides and nobody was banned simply for his opinion. At least in the short time I was reading there I did not see any bias. But an agressiveness way above anything you will see here.

I guess now you see my point about the inconsistencies of community member treatment.

On 8/8/2022 at 12:13 PM, meganoth said:

Many people here talked about Reach's video but I haven't heard a single mention of another person besides Reach having been a part of whatever discussion you think happened. Looks very one-way to me. 

Well, when some people are afraid to express themselves because 'consequences', of course it's going to look very one way to you. I'm sure there are people around here that would love to speak their mind, but are pretty sure what will happen if they do and they sit on the side lines watching and listening to what others have to say, on and off this forum, wishing there weren't such heavy bias all around.

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, Sal said:

Again, the main point. A person can't express their REAL negative opinions or problems with the game without

having 50 nut nuggers coming to TFP's rescue and telling them that if they don't like it then come up with something better, or learn to mod the game. Who in their right mind would even try after reading several threads like these?

Spot on. You make valid points and anyone who can't see that is being ignorant to it all.

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, Sal said:

1) You clearly have a biased opinion here, for obvious reasons. 2) The majority of this forum is riddled with nut huggers who wouldn't even dare speak bad about TFP or the game, and consistently ridicule those who do post anything negative.

On 8/6/2022 at 2:16 AM, Laz Man said:

Accurate. Quite accurate indeed. The mocking response you got in return shows it. 

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, Sal said:

Can you blame him? Why would he or anyone else come here and try to have a conversation? Especially after reading this thread. 

BINGO!

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, Sal said:

If you want a utopian forum where everyone only talks about how great the game is then just say so and stop hiding behind this fake "we're always open to have a discussion and resolve your issues" facade BS platitude.  Just be honest.

It doesn't get more straight to the point than that. It's exactly the point I try to make, but it's side stepped in a hot minute. If a utopia is expected and desired then tell us what the standard is, set it and make it publicly clear that no negative feedback is wanted nor appreciated.

On 8/8/2022 at 3:39 PM, Matt115 said:

Nope. Meganoth is right: someone people - both : people against and for something should be banned on  steam if their cross the line. 

That simply does not happen though and the historical discussion board trail shows it. In a non-bias atmosphere sure, those ideals work great, but when there is a heavy noticeable pattern of bias involved (just like all the patterns Reach Gaming spoke of), things rarely if ever, end fairly for whatever party is punished and this is a long term pattern that has been occurring for a very long time.

 

There is a few persons commenting here I'd like to respond to, but I know what will happen if I do and what it will lead to. They tend to try provoke people into situations where they know they can sink the hook to get somebody ousted if they do things slyly while working with others to sway decisions. Manipulation. Psychological manipulation games to get their way is what it is. I caught on. So, I do not interact with them at all here.

On 8/8/2022 at 4:21 PM, meganoth said:

I'd like to remind everyone that the forum has a nice feature: You have an ignore list where you can put forums users with which you don't seem to get along. Ignorance can be bliss 😁

And how exactly does this solve the extremist bias patterns on the pro game and company moderator and community side of things? It doesn't. The patterns are an ever consistent problem and they keep repeating themselves because there is an expectation that people should not speak negatively about the game or TFP, or face the wrath of all who oppose opposite views or opinions. The patterns are highly predictable even before they occur.

Long story short, the bias around feedback is speak well of all or shut up. Don't want to shut up? Fine. We'll...

Anyway, that's just my opinion based on years of observation and real world experience with it all.

Edited August 13, 2022 by meganoth
discussion of moderation (see edit history)

[Matt115]

59 minutes ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

That simply does not happen though and the historical discussion board trail shows it. In a non-bias atmosphere sure, those ideals work great, but when there is a heavy noticeable pattern of bias involved (just like all the patterns Reach Gaming spoke of), things rarely if ever, end fairly for whatever party is punished and this is a long term pattern that has been occurring for a very long time.

 

There is a few persons commenting here I'd like to respond to, but I know what will happen if I do and what it will lead to. They tend to try provoke people into situations where they know they can sink the hook to get somebody ousted if they do things slyly while working with others to sway decisions. Manipulation. Psychological manipulation games to get their way is what it is. I caught on. So, I do not interact with them at all here.

And how exactly does this solve the extremist bias patterns on the pro game and company moderator and community side of things? It doesn't. The patterns are an ever consistent problem and they keep repeating themselves because there is an expectation that people should not speak negatively about the game or TFP, or face the wrath of all who oppose opposite views or opinions. The patterns are highly predictable even before they occur.

Long story short, the bias around feedback is speak well of all or shut up. Don't want to shut up? Fine. We'll...

Anyway, that's just my opinion based on years of observation and real world experience with it all.

 

Well yes there is a spectrum of things that's why admins trying to be objective but they are just humans so they can do mistake - so you can always write to them if you don't dissagree about something ( at least on forum - idk how this works on steam).  

 

There is 18 pages of  topic  some of them are old - so there is no point to "check" older topics.  Well - Some people will try provoke similiar situation ( i met with something like that in steam dissusion about diffrent game). But this you can try to write them polite - you want advice how to write this just write on prive i will help   But if this person will trying to provoke again just... ignore this.

 

"extremist bias patterns on the pro game and company moderator and community side of thing" - there is no such a thing - every good game have mostly fans on their forums, groups right? if you check another forums  of games mostly people will defence Devs decisions because... usually people who don't like a game don't care about this game. I think that call of duty vanguard is terrible game. But i don't will loose my time complaining about that on cod forum because i just don't care about that game anymore.

 

 

"there is an expectation that people should not speak negatively about the game or TFP, or face the wrath of all who oppose opposite views or opinions" this is very unfair and untrue.  There is something diffrent to be negative and rude - i was negative a lot of times and even devs answered my comments - but both sides were polite.  And i'm trying to give arguments - i don't like how guns looks like after updated - i wrote why , someone people wrote what are thinking but they were givining arguments why they think i''m wrong etc. 

Not only "content" is important but "style of message" is important too.  Wrath? No. if 10 people write to you why you are wrong about something in cultural way this is totaly fine

You don't agree how this game looks like? sure you have totaly rights to not like this game but still you have to be cultural. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Rotor]

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Know also

 

Not!

[Matt115]

7 minutes ago, Rotor said:

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Know also

 

Not!

This looks like something in SCP style XD

[Ramethzer0]

I play an MMO who's forums were peopled with folks from all over the world, and that post is literally nostalgia soup.

[Melange]

Weird. The editor on this forum was bugged for me a few nights ago. I'd press a key and it would display a series of words and not the letter I pressed. Looks like @Rotor got a bigger dose of it than I did 😇

[meganoth]

22 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

[deleted. Please do not discuss moderation here]

 

That's probably what should have happened, but that is not what happened because I am not there and the people who were involved in trolling, baiting and all the rest are still there doing the same things they were doing prior the events that unfolded.

 

We are a public platform here. If people are blamed without prove and nebulous accusations then that is unfair against them as they can't put up a defense in this court of public opinion. That is why I said: Either make a complaint to a moderator with all the evidence you can find. But don't discuss it here. When you accuse all mods on steam to be in some conspiracy you are accusing specific people.

 

Now you claim that the other way never happens. When I went to read some stuff on the steam forum I noticed a very heated discussion, the exact one that led me to comparing this forum and steam on politeness in my previous reply to you. And it seems that user was banned or at least prevented from posting.  Now the thing is he was defending TFP aggressively.

 

22 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

It was bias. Simple as that. To control an open discussion atmosphere in this way is to be a dictator, but hey, that's just my opinion. Matt115 is also only right to an extent. If you see the broader spectrum of things, it's not always so and not every situation should be treated the same.

 

I guess now you see my point about the inconsistencies of community member treatment.

 

When I said "Valid point" I meant your point about moderators being misjudged as representatives of TFP.

 

While looking at the steam forum I did not see any inconsistencies of member treatment. I myself had discussions with two forum members who were heavily critizising TFP, but they were doing it politely and they were neither banned nor assaulted. They got a lot of counter-arguments but so did anyone who posted positive things.   

 

22 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Well, when some people are afraid to express themselves because 'consequences', of course it's going to look very one way to you. I'm sure there are people around here that would love to speak their mind, but are pretty sure what will happen if they do and they sit on the side lines watching and listening to what others have to say, on and off this forum, wishing there weren't such heavy bias all around.

 

The posting bias on this forum is a fact. When you post negative things you get a lot more counter-replies than when you praise. Moderators can't do anything about that, TFP can't do anything about that if it wants this to be a forum. But as a moderator I am pretty sure that you are wrong about moderation here being biased.

 

It is human nature that people who did something wrong try to find the fault in others. Many posters who get banned here think they did nothing wrong and that the ban was unjustified. It probably happens a lot that they then go over to the steam forum and complain they were banned JUST because they were critizising TFP. Hence you hear that this forum is unfair and the consequence of critizising is a ban. Nonsene. There are clear rules in this forum and anyone who was banned here was not an innocent lamb and it didn't matter if he praised or critizised TFP.

 

22 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Spot on. You make valid points and anyone who can't see that is being ignorant to it all.

Accurate. Quite accurate indeed. The mocking response you got in return shows it. 

BINGO!

It doesn't get more straight to the point than that. It's exactly the point I try to make, but it's side stepped in a hot minute. If a utopia is expected and desired then tell us what the standard is, set it and make it publicly clear that no negative feedback is wanted nor appreciated.

That simply does not happen though and the historical discussion board trail shows it. In a non-bias atmosphere sure, those ideals work great, but when there is a heavy noticeable pattern of bias involved (just like all the patterns Reach Gaming spoke of), things rarely if ever, end fairly for whatever party is punished and this is a long term pattern that has been occurring for a very long time.

 

There is a few persons commenting here I'd like to respond to, but I know what will happen if I do and what it will lead to. They tend to try provoke people into situations where they know they can sink the hook to get somebody ousted if they do things slyly while working with others to sway decisions. Manipulation. Psychological manipulation games to get their way is what it is. I caught on. So, I do not interact with them at all here.

 

Then learn how not to fall for psychologicla manipulation on the internet. That is fairly easy and can be summed up in 3 words: "Don't get provoked".

Think twice to answer to a provocation. Think twice whether the other is really trying to provoke you.

 

That is why I proposed the ignore list to you as well as to some others. If you have a problem with some posters, put them on the ignore list. Much easier to not respond to an ignored person.

 

22 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

And how exactly does this solve the extremist bias patterns on the pro game and company moderator and community side of things? It doesn't. The patterns are an ever consistent problem and they keep repeating themselves because there is an expectation that people should not speak negatively about the game or TFP, or face the wrath of all who oppose opposite views or opinions. The patterns are highly predictable even before they occur.

Long story short, the bias around feedback is speak well of all or shut up. Don't want to shut up? Fine. We'll...

Anyway, that's just my opinion based on years of observation and real world experience with it all.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[mprojekt]

16 hours ago, Rotor said:

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Know also

 

Not!

New Pattern Screamer instance suspected. Alerting appropriate Foundation personnel and attempting to self-quarantine to reduce cognito-hazardous effects.

[Roland]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:18 PM, youcantgetridofme said:

Observers notice some of the most interesting things sometimes. I too am an observer. Noticed this trend long ago too.

 

And I wrote a response to this "trend" that you have not seemed to have observed. I asked some pointed questions asking for evidence of this alleged trend. Can you provide it?

 

The console version was released with Alpha 14 and so when you look back at Alpha 12 and 13 you can definitely see changes that had console in mind. After that, it was pretty quickly clear to everyone that console would never be the same as PC. Console got many of the A15 features but not all and only a small number of A16 features. If the claim that the game was being dumbed down to work on console was true then why were the two versions so completely different within two Alphas?

 

Then, from A18 development until now TFP knew the console version was never going to change since Telltale went bankrupt so why would they be dumbing things down in those alphas for a console game that was not going to get those dumbed down updates?

 

Now, for A20 and A21 the framework for cross-platform networking is being worked on which obviously has consoles in mind but what other gameplay examples can you give that are dumbing down for the benefit of consoles?

 

Please, share.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Roland]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

The posting bias on this forum is a fact.

 

Agreed. Most people who post here are fans of the game AND fans of the developers. So most posts are going to be positive and when people disagree with how the development is going they still post in a respectful way because they are cognizant of the feelings of the developers. 

 

Some people who post here are angry and don't care about or maybe don't even like the developers or members of this community. Because they are angry they are aggressive and perhaps rude and because they don't have any respect for developers or community members they are very willing to insult right along with their rudeness.

 

Look at @Sal calling everyone on this forum who is happy with the game, "nut huggers". WIth one breath he and @youcantgetridofme claim that people are too afraid to come here and post their negative opinions and yet they post negative things themselves and their posts remain. Even the "nut-hugger" name calling is still there in a couple of Sal's posts and hasn't been moderated out. 

 

The truth is we give people a lot of leeway before taking action and the actions are progressive and very rarely an immediate ban regardless of which side they are arguing. If the bias here makes people who plan to post negatively check themselves so they word their feedback without flaming then that is a good thing. If someone doesn't post because they are afraid that their opinion will be challenged, that is weakness of that person and not of the forum. Forums are here so that all opinions can be challenged and discussed.

[Matt115]

38 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Agreed. Most people who post here are fans of the game AND fans of the developers. So most posts are going to be positive and when people disagree with how the development is going they still post in a respectful way because they are cognizant of the feelings of the developers. 

 

 

I can comfirmed that   @Sal @youcantgetridofme you check how many times i disagree about how development is going and as you see i have 2.3 K post so...  yeah Roland is right about that. 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Roland is right

1/2.3k

 

the dream is real. 

[Guppycur]

What the literal @%$# did I just read.

[NukemDed]

why did you bother to read it? it wasnt game related...

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

1/2.3k

 

the dream is real. 

Well it was even more ! maybe even 10 times! 😛

2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

What the literal @%$# did I just read.

typical day on 7DTD'S forum

[meganoth]

While we are talking about seemingly unfair moderator decisions like banning users on steam:

 

Imagine a world where the law had only the death sentence as instrument for punishment. So they would have to not only apply that to murder but to lots of felonies as well. And the courts would have to find very squishy rules when to apply death sentence or let someone simply go. So lets say someone robbing 2 houses would still get the benefit of the doubt but someone robbing 8 houses would get the death sentence on the vague principle that he is a hardened criminal and serial offender past redemption. To someone getting robbed by one of them those numbers would sound rather arbitrary and they wouldn't see a principal difference between both offenders.

Getting back to moderation on steam, make a list of insults. Then try to judge which of these should get a ban (call them red insults) and which do not (call them yellow insults). Its damn difficult to make that list. And someone using an insult on the red list getting a ban could find it very unfair if someone else using a word on the yellow lists gets nothing or a simple word of warning.

And even that is simplyfing things because someone stringing two yellow insults in consecutive posts should probably be banned even though someone using the word only once gets off free.

 

 

 

[Jost Amman]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

While we are talking about seemingly unfair moderator decisions like banning users on steam:

 

Imagine a world where the law had only the death sentence as instrument for punishment. So they would have to not only apply that to murder but to lots of felonies as well. And the courts would have to find very squishy rules when to apply death sentence or let someone simply go. So lets say someone robbing 2 houses would still get the benefit of the doubt but someone robbing 8 houses would get the death sentence on the vague principle that he is a hardened criminal and serial offender past redemption. To someone getting robbed by one of them those numbers would sound rather arbitrary and they wouldn't see a principal difference between both offenders.

Getting back to moderation on steam, make a list of insults. Then try to judge which of these should get a ban (call them red insults) and which do not (call them yellow insults). Its damn difficult to make that list. And someone using an insult on the red list getting a ban could find it very unfair if someone else using a word on the yellow lists gets nothing or a simple word of warning.

And even that is simplyfing things because someone stringing two yellow insults in consecutive posts should probably be banned even though someone using the word only once gets off free.

Please! PLEASE!! I DON'T WANT TO DIE!!  Can we commute to life in prison? 

[Melange]

51 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Please! PLEASE!! I DON'T WANT TO DIE!!  Can we commute to life in prison? 

You're doing it wrong @Jost Amman. They have to prove it first. Don't admit to anything.  

[Dead Wombat]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:52 AM, Urban Blackbear said:

I always take reviews with a huge grain of salt. Said grain of salt being the maker trying to monetize it.

I need a frickin mine of pink Himalayan(sic) salt for this review

 

On 8/13/2022 at 11:33 AM, Roland said:

 

Agreed. Most people who post here are fans of the game AND fans of the developers. So most posts are going to be positive and when people disagree with how the development is going they still post in a respectful way because they are cognizant of the feelings of the developers. 

 

Some people who post here are angry and don't care about or maybe don't even like the developers or members of this community. Because they are angry they are aggressive and perhaps rude and because they don't have any respect for developers or community members they are very willing to insult right along with their rudeness.

 

Look at @Sal calling everyone on this forum who is happy with the game, "nut huggers". WIth one breath he and @youcantgetridofme claim that people are too afraid to come here and post their negative opinions and yet they post negative things themselves and their posts remain. Even the "nut-hugger" name calling is still there in a couple of Sal's posts and hasn't been moderated out. 

 

The truth is we give people a lot of leeway before taking action and the actions are progressive and very rarely an immediate ban regardless of which side they are arguing. If the bias here makes people who plan to post negatively check themselves so they word their feedback without flaming then that is a good thing. If someone doesn't post because they are afraid that their opinion will be challenged, that is weakness of that person and not of the forum. Forums are here so that all opinions can be challenged and discussed.

I like FROGS can we see some ingame they is tasty too.(I realize this is not on topic necessarialy but at least it is not vituperative!!!!) 😜

[Urban Blackbear]

 

[mprojekt]

21 minutes ago, Urban Blackbear said:

 

 

What he said.

 

😵

[SURVIVE]

heres my theory. Blizzard enterteiment development employees would often play the game they worked on. then they stopped and so did the popularity of their games. Call of duty owner activision(same company technically, different departments) stoped playing the games they worked on and so the popularity started to decline. and this was pre pandemic. EA developers gearbox software completely lost touch with gamers because the kiddie porn lovin CEO needed to show more profits to EA, so less comunity developer events and more microtransactions.

Ubisoft made Assassins creed origins, then it ignored the entire community and made Valhalla. Halo giant Microsoft made 343 studios and they told couch co-op players to eat a dic, So popularity droped.

 

the two things to note are:

1) Developers stoped playing the games they were working on

2) Ignored all important critical community and tester feedback

 

These in turn cause even more problems like: Overworked, underpaid developers. Angry investors. hostile/stressful work environment. and in some cases death.

 

Those in turn cause: Community outrage. Review bombing of your game. profit loss. Liquidation of assests to show you turned a profit this year, even though you didn't.

 

and after that the cycle repeats to cover massive losses you took in profit, employees, respect and ommunity trust which is not at all easy to build.

 

 

 

theres literally a list of bad developers and bad parent company enablers. And its scary AF that indie developers are starting to appear on that list. I have higher hopes now that tfp is established and working in unreal engine but I won't get them to high. With the way they jumped on that game pass I definitely felt that greedy fat phuck feeling.

 

Summary: TFP promised more then it could, disappointed community, joined the ranks of developers scrambling to finish their game so they can move on to the next one with full team. most of us that play just laugh anymore.

[SURVIVE]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:47 AM, Jugginator said:

Sometimes, people like to act like they are involved in company meetings and have visibility into the workflow and know exactly what's being done in closed doors.

No but yeah we get a general idea. Not hard to put two and two together and figure out the answer isn't five like you were told.

[Matt115]

7 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

heres my theory. Blizzard enterteiment development employees would often play the game they worked on. then they stopped and so did the popularity of their games. Call of duty owner activision(same company technically, different departments) stoped playing the games they worked on and so the popularity started to decline. and this was pre pandemic. EA developers gearbox software completely lost touch with gamers because the kiddie porn lovin CEO needed to show more profits to EA, so less comunity developer events and more microtransactions.

Ubisoft made Assassins creed origins, then it ignored the entire community and made Valhalla. Halo giant Microsoft made 343 studios and they told couch co-op players to eat a dic, So popularity droped.

 

the two things to note are:

1) Developers stoped playing the games they were working on

2) Ignored all important critical community and tester feedback

 

These in turn cause even more problems like: Overworked, underpaid developers. Angry investors. hostile/stressful work environment. and in some cases death.

 

Those in turn cause: Community outrage. Review bombing of your game. profit loss. Liquidation of assests to show you turned a profit this year, even though you didn't.

 

and after that the cycle repeats to cover massive losses you took in profit, employees, respect and ommunity trust which is not at all easy to build.

 

 

 

theres literally a list of bad developers and bad parent company enablers. And its scary AF that indie developers are starting to appear on that list. I have higher hopes now that tfp is established and working in unreal engine but I won't get them to high. With the way they jumped on that game pass I definitely felt that greedy fat phuck feeling.

 

Summary: TFP promised more then it could, disappointed community, joined the ranks of developers scrambling to finish their game so they can move on to the next one with full team. most of us that play just laugh anymore.

 

Playing games/ feedback is not such important.  Why? only important thing is ...income because this make  share holders happy - Diablo immortal get bad opinion but... earned so much money, Acti? earn a lot of omonet. Ubisoft? again - a lot of money etc. so reviews, complaining of comunity is not such important because microtransations and selled copies are more important index. 

yes indie developers are afraid because... cost of making games are pretty high so this can be so risky for them. Indie devs have freedom but don't have enough money while  Inc have money but not freedom.

 

What about TFP? Well finishing 7DTD as fast as possible is the best option for now. But until 7DTD2 will pass... maybe 10 years so yeah nothing good can happens

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

heres my theory. Blizzard enterteiment development employees would often play the game they worked on. then they stopped and so did the popularity of their games. Call of duty owner activision(same company technically, different departments) stoped playing the games they worked on and so the popularity started to decline. and this was pre pandemic. EA developers gearbox software completely lost touch with gamers because the kiddie porn lovin CEO needed to show more profits to EA, so less comunity developer events and more microtransactions.

Ubisoft made Assassins creed origins, then it ignored the entire community and made Valhalla. Halo giant Microsoft made 343 studios and they told couch co-op players to eat a dic, So popularity droped.

 

the two things to note are:

1) Developers stoped playing the games they were working on

2) Ignored all important critical community and tester feedback

 

These in turn cause even more problems like: Overworked, underpaid developers. Angry investors. hostile/stressful work environment. and in some cases death.

 

Those in turn cause: Community outrage. Review bombing of your game. profit loss. Liquidation of assests to show you turned a profit this year, even though you didn't.

 

and after that the cycle repeats to cover massive losses you took in profit, employees, respect and ommunity trust which is not at all easy to build.

 

 

 

theres literally a list of bad developers and bad parent company enablers. And its scary AF that indie developers are starting to appear on that list. I have higher hopes now that tfp is established and working in unreal engine but I won't get them to high. With the way they jumped on that game pass I definitely felt that greedy fat phuck feeling.

 

Calling a sensible business decision greedy is like calling a lion bloodthirsty when he eats an innocent lamb. Now I don't know if it was a sensible business decision to enter game pass and epic store, but I see long-term advantages for players (more choice of platform) and you haven't shown how that is so bad for players. In fact generally cross-platform play is on the wishlist of players for a lot of games. Are you the representative of the steam-community that is disappointed other unwashed masses are let in?

 

The bad stuff is all short-term as far as I can see. A percentage of players have to endure a sub-par browser for a while. And new players coming from game pass encounter a few bugs.

 

In essence business as usual, features that get shown in an unfinished state to players and bugs that take a long time to go away. Remember how long players had to endure minibikes sinking into the earth? Two years. If you don't want to see bugs, don't buy a game in EA. 

 

If TFP is really greedy and ignores the community, then it always was doing that. I don't see a change.

 

9 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

 

Summary: TFP promised more then it could, disappointed community, joined the ranks of developers scrambling to finish their game so they can move on to the next one with full team. most of us that play just laugh anymore.

 

A developer who tries to finish a game after 8 years in EA is a bad thing for you? Meanwhile a part of the community you speak of complains about the game taking too long! What now? Which group should TFP try to please? And did you see any signs of crunch? Wouldn't features and bugfixes come at an accelerated rate if they were in crunch now?

 

What did TFP promise and fail to do, by the way?

You mentioned duration but the only promise I heard from them was "Its done when its done".

You seem to complain about bugs but did they ever promise to have a bug-free game in EA?

You mention gamepass. Did they promise to never enter gamepass or epic store?

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)