This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[Maharin]

I feel different...

[Rotor]

Hmmm, drank the wrong punch you did!

Edited August 20, 2022 by Rotor (see edit history)

[mprojekt]

1 hour ago, Maharin said:

I feel different...

 

It could be worse.

 

You could be Darth Jar Jar.

[Jost Amman]

6 hours ago, Maharin said:

I feel different...

You look like the average forum troll now... 

[SURVIVE]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:48 PM, Roland said:

 

He thought you were the first of nearly everyone showing up.

 

 

I'll answer simply by backing up @meganoth. The devs have never billed their Early Access as a way for investors to help steer the ship. They appreciate feedback and bug reports and they use that feedback to make some decisions but they've never asked community permission before adding something or removing something. It is always hilarious to read someone who is shocked that TFP added something that nobody ever asked for. TFP has been in complete control of development and never once tried to dupe anyone into spending their $8 by promising them a seat at the developer's table. Early Access for this game has been an early chance to play the game while it is still being developed to witness the changes that happen and see how the game evolves. Community feedback may cause some balancing changes and may even result in actual additions (or edits) to the game down the line.  They gather that feedack from many sources as well as stuff they can track as players play which gives them the real truth about how nearly everyone is playing.

 

Feedback isn't going to effect things much these days since the game is almost finished. Now most player dreams for what isn't included in the vanilla experience is going to have to be a mod. Now if your attitude is that you don't want to give feedback if they aren't going to implement what you say and they shouldn't ask for it if they aren't going to bind themselves to do whatever is suggested, then I have to echo the sentiment that your expectations were set way too high about what your early access was going to grant you.

 

 

Everyone? or nearly everyone? Exactly how many cookies can I expect Jost to receive just as soon as one of these two groups finally arrives?

lol man move on already the rest of us have.

[Roland]

4 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

lol man move on already the rest of us have.

 

Well...yeah. The forums move on daily so when you quote something from 3 days ago that tends to happen lmao.

[youcantgetridofme]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:27 PM, Roland said:

Ummm.... I rewrote/summarized my response in the same post that you quoted me. You didn't need to go digging back in the thread or miss anything. You claimed that the trend was to dumb down the game for console and I refuted that point and asked questions of you to hear your thoughts. 

It was tried on Steam and the same result occurs that occurs here. You challenge us, but if we take the challenge and point out negatives, you negate the negative criticism or feedback by trying to issue counter arguments, dodging what the person is trying to say by overflowing it with regurgitated defences that have no substance after an entire decade of being regurgitated by TFP and their volunteers. If it's not that, then we just randomly disappear and nobody see's us speak on the board or forum again unless we make another account to do so. Why bother when you don't really want to hear what we have to say in the first place? It doesn't matter what we say, Roland. You will defensively counter argue / 'challenge' people until they give up because they're tired of talking to a wall of fanatical bias. You don't want your time wasted, so why would we waste ours doing something we're told to do, but not really allowed to because TFP and volunteer biases don't permit it? Why talk wet paint on a wall into drying? 

 

Reach Gaming's points are reflective on this forum. The patterns are very real. It's at a point nowadays that they are highly predictable and we can often at times now, even see them coming before the patterns even emerge. The pattern on this discussion - highly predictable and expected. History has shown us nothing different as it continually repeats itself.

Reach Gaming is right. Sad, but true.

 

PS. Fix your guy's damn forum it's a bloody mess. I had tons of quote responses here, but it decided to not include them with the last quote. This forum is a mess. Maybe you guys could bring it up to the year 2022 instead of it feeling and behaving like a website from 2008? Yet another pattern. SMH.

Edited August 23, 2022 by youcantgetridofme (see edit history)

[Roland]

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

It was tried on Steam and the same result occurs that occurs here. You challenge us, but if we take the challenge and point out negatives, you negate the negative criticism or feedback by trying to issue counter arguments, dodging what the person is trying to say by overflowing it with regurgitated defences that have no substance after an entire decade of being regurgitated by TFP and their volunteers. If it's not that, then we just randomly disappear and nobody see's us speak on the board or forum again unless we make another account to do so. Why bother when you don't really want to hear what we have to say in the first place? It doesn't matter what we say, Roland. You will defensively counter argue / 'challenge' people until they give up because they're tired of talking to a wall of fanatical bias. You don't want your time wasted, so why would we waste ours doing something we're told to do, but not really allowed to because TFP and volunteer biases don't permit it? Why talk wet paint on a wall into drying? 

 

Reach Gaming's points are reflective on this forum. The patterns are very real. It's at a point nowadays that they are highly predictable and we can often at times now, even see them coming before the patterns even emerge. The pattern on this discussion - highly predictable and expected. History has shown us nothing different as it continually repeats itself.

Reach Gaming is right. Sad, but true.

 

PS. Fix your guy's damn forum it's a bloody mess. I had tons of quote responses here, but it decided to not include them with the last quote. This forum is a mess. Maybe you guys could bring it up to the year 2022 instead of it feeling and behaving like a website from 2008? Yet another pattern. SMH.

You really misnamed yourself. It should be youcanthaveaconversationwithme…

 

Youve spent all your time explaining exactly how the Steam forum managed to get rid of you but won’t engage in a two-way discussion here. 
 

Maybe your handle should be steamgotridofmedammit since that’s all you seem to want to discuss here. 
 

You’re welcome to stay and participate but you should know that we allow all opinions to be expressed and any opinion to be challenged. This is a forum and not simply an announcement board. 
 

It is exactly the process of several people expressing their opposing opinions that allows readers to decide what they think the truth is. I may not convince you and you may not convince me but hundreds of others read both sides and are convinced one way or another. 
 

But that’s cool. Like I said, I offered up my evidence to show that the game has not been on a “dumb it down for console” trend and you offered nothing to show that it is. I mean, you can’t because there isn’t any and so instead you have to fall back on reasons why nobody should ever disagree with any opinion ever posted…

[Matt115]

10 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

It was tried on Steam and the same result occurs that occurs here. You challenge us, but if we take the challenge and point out negatives, you negate the negative criticism or feedback by trying to issue counter arguments, dodging what the person is trying to say by overflowing it with regurgitated defences that have no substance after an entire decade of being regurgitated by TFP and their volunteers. If it's not that, then we just randomly disappear and nobody see's us speak on the board or forum again unless we make another account to do so. Why bother when you don't really want to hear what we have to say in the first place? It doesn't matter what we say, Roland. You will defensively counter argue / 'challenge' people until they give up because they're tired of talking to a wall of fanatical bias. You don't want your time wasted, so why would we waste ours doing something we're told to do, but not really allowed to because TFP and volunteer biases don't permit it? Why talk wet paint on a wall into drying? 

 

Reach Gaming's points are reflective on this forum. The patterns are very real. It's at a point nowadays that they are highly predictable and we can often at times now, even see them coming before the patterns even emerge. The pattern on this discussion - highly predictable and expected. History has shown us nothing different as it continually repeats itself.

Reach Gaming is right. Sad, but true.

 

PS. Fix your guy's damn forum it's a bloody mess. I had tons of quote responses here, but it decided to not include them with the last quote. This forum is a mess. Maybe you guys could bring it up to the year 2022 instead of it feeling and behaving like a website from 2008? Yet another pattern. SMH.

You and that other guy wrote a lot but... honestly you wrote nothing. Did you copy and paste example from Steam? Nope.  Yes there is a pattern : no evidences = no arguments. that's all. Yes it's predictable because you writing this same thing over and over and over and... still no evidences. 

I'm a lot of time against TFP and majority of this forum but i always giving evidences and example why :

lack of horror stuff ----> screens and example of games

zombie kids -----> another games

guns models ----> screens from another game

 and more and more and more and more. But yet - i'm manage to create.... constuctive discusion. How? Evidences. you writing about conter arguments but you and that another guy you are writing like : " patterns, steam , reach gaming is right, fanatical bias" . and that's all  That's no argumets

 

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

You really misnamed yourself. It should be youcanthaveaconversationwithme…

 

Youve spent all your time explaining exactly how the Steam forum managed to get rid of you but won’t engage in a two-way discussion here. 
 

Maybe your handle should be steamgotridofmedammit since that’s all you seem to want to discuss here. 
 

You’re welcome to stay and participate but you should know that we allow all opinions to be expressed and any opinion to be challenged. This is a forum and not simply an announcement board. 
 

It is exactly the process of several people expressing their opposing opinions that allows readers to decide what they think the truth is. I may not convince you and you may not convince me but hundreds of others read both sides and are convinced one way or another. 
 

But that’s cool. Like I said, I offered up my evidence to show that the game has not been on a “dumb it down for console” trend and you offered nothing to show that it is. I mean, you can’t because there isn’t any and so instead you have to fall back on reasons why nobody should ever disagree with any opinion ever posted…

Roland i think  this  is not possible to convice them.  they are wrong because they are thinking that  if they will be "stubborn and emotional" long enough  people will change their mind

[youcantgetridofme]

17 hours ago, Roland said:

You really misnamed yourself. It should be youcanthaveaconversationwithme…

Sarcastic arrogance. Expected. Historical patterns repeat themselves.

17 hours ago, Roland said:

Youve spent all your time explaining exactly how the Steam forum managed to get rid of you but won’t engage in a two-way discussion here. 

I tried there. What makes you think anything is going to be different over here? I mean, you make jokes about my nickname so what makes you think I'm going to take you seriously enough to engage you in a discussion when you do that? You just make me not want to talk to you more and more when you act like that. This is why a lot of us out here don't say much because with this attitude you already have, it's highly probable that you're itching to use that vulgar display of power.

 

17 hours ago, Roland said:

Maybe your handle should be steamgotridofmedammit since that’s all you seem to want to discuss here. 

Again, you're trying to push buttons. So what if I want to discuss that here to contrast what Reach Gaming is trying to say. It's relevant and on point. This pattern (especially the one you're doing now) is one among the many bad patterns TFP has adopted. It never used to be like this in the early days of TFP, but things changed over the years. Sarcasm, arrogance, ignorance, etc. Many patterns of which are not good traits of a supposed to be professional company. This is a bad pattern that fits right in with what Reach Gaming discussed.

 

17 hours ago, Roland said:

You’re welcome to stay and participate but you should know that we allow all opinions to be expressed and any opinion to be challenged. This is a forum and not simply an announcement board. 

Good to know. Maybe you should try talking about what's being discussed instead of being a petty individual seeking to push buttons and p*ss off your community members. But that's the pattern - act childish and make up nicknames that you figure a person should have called themselves, while at the same time hoping others will jump on board with your public shaming attempts. Bad patterns, Roland. Bad patterns.

17 hours ago, Roland said:

But that’s cool. Like I said, I offered up my evidence to show that the game has not been on a “dumb it down for console” trend and you offered nothing to show that it is. I mean, you can’t because there isn’t any and so instead you have to fall back on reasons why nobody should ever disagree with any opinion ever posted…

Yeah, you don't think too much, Roland. had you actually paid attention to what I said, you would have a pretty good idea why you didn't get the responses you expected. If you used your cognitive abilities, you would know that I tried, but because your guys' POS forum is such a mess, I didn't have the ambition to retype what I tried to type in the first place. It's your guys' job to have a reliable website so maybe you should talk to the web dev guys. If your guys' website wasn't such a POS mess, you would have gotten the responses you sought, but I'm not going to type that stuff all over again for it to be sent to limbo and not actually get posted.  This has happened several times.

Besides, the dumb down of the game subject isn't even what this discussion was about in the first place. This wouldn't be allowed on Steam (historical proof exists). Reach Gaming discussed how the game changes, reverts, changes, reverts - and it seems like TFP can't make up their mind what they want the game to do or be. You're not can't get anywhere if y'all can't make up your minds. Thus why this game is still in development after almost an entire decade and still there is no end in sight. "It'll be done when it's done." is all we get year after year. Reach Gaming is right. The pattern of do, undo, redo, undo, remake, rework, redo and rinse repeat is all too common with TFP. Also as he said, the game is janky and weird. Animations are goofy, clunky, etc. Just an example among many that can be explained. That's been yet another pattern that's gone on for almost a decade now. They get better, then worse, then better and worse and the cycle continues. After almost ten entire years, y'all can't flesh that stuff out?  Really? I've seen better animations from indie devs with smaller teams so there's no excuse for things to be so janky at this stage of development of 7DTD.

Problem here is you don't want to accept and admit that the company and game have both followed some pretty bad patterns during development and many mistakes keep getting repeated and that it's a repetitious company pattern. Reach Gaming hit home is what the real problem is and TFP won't or don't want to accept the truth. More humility and less self centred pride would be much more welcomed by the community, but this is a pattern TFP have adopted. TFP has gotten comfortable with putting pride before humility.

Reach Gaming - spot on, nailed it, but TFP doesn't want to face the truth and accept it, publicly. Honesty is a lot more respect worthy and welcomed than ignorant / arrogant pride.

Edited August 24, 2022 by youcantgetridofme (see edit history)

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Sarcastic arrogance. Expected. Historical patterns repeat themselves.

I tried there. What makes you think anything is going to be different over here? I mean, you make jokes about my nickname so what makes you think I'm going to take you seriously enough to engage you in a discussion when you do that? You just make me not want to talk to you more and more when you act like that. This is why a lot of us out here don't say much because with this attitude you already have, it's highly probable that you're itching to use that vulgar display of power.

 

Again, you're trying to push buttons. So what if I want to discuss that here to contrast what Reach Gaming is trying to say. It's relevant and on point. This pattern (especially the one you're doing now) is one among the many bad patterns TFP has adopted. It never used to be like this in the early days of TFP, but things changed over the years. Sarcasm, arrogance, ignorance, etc. Many patterns of which are not good traits of a supposed to be professional company. This is a bad pattern that fits right in with what Reach Gaming discussed.

 

Good to know. Maybe you should try talking about what's being discussed instead of being a petty individual seeking to push buttons and p*ss off your community members. But that's the pattern - act childish and make up nicknames that you figure a person should have called themselves, while at the same time hoping others will jump on board with your public shaming attempts. Bad patterns, Roland. Bad patterns.

 

So what about you pushing buttons again and again. You have been provocative all the time and especially in that last paragraph above. I gave you a simple recipe at the start of our discussion what to do and you never followed that.

 

If you had you might have reason to complain or not, but you never even put the system to the test ! Like a high priest of the church of Reach you just follow your believe and everyone else is a heretic.

 

10 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Yeah, you don't think too much, Roland. had you actually paid attention to what I said, you would have a pretty good idea why you didn't get the responses you expected. If you used your cognitive abilities, you would know that I tried, but because your guys' POS forum is such a mess, I didn't have the ambition to retype what I tried to type in the first place. It's your guys' job to have a reliable website so maybe you should talk to the web dev guys. If your guys' website wasn't such a POS mess, you would have gotten the responses you sought, but I'm not going to type that stuff all over again for it to be sent to limbo and not actually get posted.  This has happened several times.

 

So Roland should somehow with his cognitive abilities know you had problems with the forum software and know what you wanted to say in posts you never posted? Unlike Reach he isn't a god 😉. He can't read your posts in some parallel dimension where you were able to post something you didn't on this forum.

 

10 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Besides, the dumb down of the game subject isn't even what this discussion was about in the first place. This wouldn't be allowed on Steam (historical proof exists). Reach Gaming discussed how the game changes, reverts, changes, reverts - and it seems like TFP can't make up their mind what they want the game to do or be. You're not can't get anywhere if y'all can't make up your minds. Thus why this game is still in development after almost an entire decade and still there is no end in sight.

 

To me the games finish line is well in sight. The sermon changed from "it'll be done when its done" into "Bandits and Story -> Done". That still isn't a date but it is more concrete than it ever was. If we don't see any progress on bandits in A21 then you actually have grounds for being disappointed.

 

10 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

"It'll be done when it's done." is all we get year after year. Reach Gaming is right. The pattern of do, undo, redo, undo, remake, rework, redo and rinse repeat is all too common with TFP. Also as he said, the game is janky and weird. Animations are goofy, clunky, etc. Just an example among many that can be explained. That's been yet another pattern that's gone on for almost a decade now. They get better, then worse, then better and worse and the cycle continues. After almost ten entire years, y'all can't flesh that stuff out?  Really? I've seen better animations from indie devs with smaller teams so there's no excuse for things to be so janky at this stage of development of 7DTD.

 

Good. Here you posted a somewhat concrete complaint. And if that is what Reach has been saying then there was a reaction by TFP as well. Didn't they answer Reach in his stream? What about their answer? Does it answer some things or not? Is it sufficient to explain stuff or not?

 

I have never seen better animations from indie devs with smaller teams in a fully destroyable voxel game of this graphics quality. Why? Because it is the only one I know of. Can it be better? We don't know. Even TFP does not know. It is awfully hard to know what exactly is possible at all with unlimited resources and world-best genius programmers.

We only will know for sure when actually someone brings out a comparable voxel game with better animations and graphics that still runs on CPUs from 2012.

 

10 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Problem here is you don't want to accept and admit that the company and game have both followed some pretty bad patterns during development and many mistakes keep getting repeated and that it's a repetitious company pattern. Reach Gaming hit home is what the real problem is and TFP won't or don't want to accept the truth. More humility and less self centred pride would be much more welcomed by the community, but this is a pattern TFP have adopted. TFP has gotten comfortable with putting pride before humility.

Reach Gaming - spot on, nailed it, but TFP doesn't want to face the truth and accept it, publicly. Honesty is a lot more respect worthy and welcomed than ignorant / arrogant pride.

 

Even if we accept that TFP did a lot of mistakes (and it is no problem to do that, remember the proverb "He who makes no mistakes makes nothing") they still were the only ones in the industry that tried their hands on a fully destroyable voxel-world game and succeeded in keeping many players happy for 8 years now. Experimentation is done everywhere in games development, but mostly behind closed doors. And still many many games are killed in development before release, before you even hear about them. But now they should kneel before any armchair critic who thinks he knows better and proclaims that experimentation must be a sign of problems. Sure.

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

Lots of passive anger going on here

[outhous]

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

you make jokes about my nickname

Your nickname isn't a joke?🤔🤨

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Lots of passive anger going on here

Honestly because explaining this same thing over and over and over and over is frustrating

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So what about you pushing buttons again and again. You have been provocative all the time and especially in that last paragraph above. I gave you a simple recipe at the start of our discussion what to do and you never followed that.

 

If you had you might have reason to complain or not, but you never even put the system to the test ! Like a high priest of the church of Reach you just follow your believe and everyone else is a heretic.

 

Well "church of Reach" sounds like possible 7DTD faction XD

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

I have never seen better animations from indie devs with smaller teams in a fully destroyable voxel game of this graphics quality. Can it be better? We don't know. Even TFP does not know. It is awfully hard to know what exactly is possible at all with unlimited resources and world-best genius programmers.

We only will know for sure when actually someone brings out a comparable voxel game with better animations and graphics that still runs on CPUs from 2012.

 

Well... other hand... there is  no better animations because.... there is not game similiar to 7dtd. MC is "cubic" , Brick rigs is like lego games ,staxel is like minecraft , teardown is like minecraft too.  But... "Can it be better" Yes. But this force to increase min. CPU. But here i think better animations aren't even possible because 1. art style - well so do something like l4d2 with guts everywhere would not suit here 2. this is not DL2 with "fun" rangdoll. So better animations is not connected with just CPU but with art style too.

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Even if we accept that TFP did a lot of mistakes (and it is no problem to do that, remember the proverb "He who makes no mistakes makes nothing") they still were the only ones in the industry that tried their hands on a fully destroyable voxel-world game and succeeded in keeping many players happy for 8 years now. Experimentation is done everywhere in games development, but mostly behind closed doors. And still many many games are killed in development before release, before you even hear about them. But now they should kneel before any armchair critic who thinks he knows better and proclaims that experimentation must be a sign of problems. Sure.

 

 

 

 

Honestly "still were the only ones in the industry that tried their hands on a fully destroyable voxel-world game and succeeded in keeping many players happy for 8 years now." it's not true - you have MC and TEARDOWN for sure. this games are fully destoyable too ( of with small exceptions but 7dtd is not full destoyable too - trader + bedrock). Teardown is younger but MC is older.

 

Experimentation is good but... lack of  visiual vision is big mistake. TFP just focused on " fully destroyable voxel game with zombies and survival" so gameplay stuff but they didn't create sure vision. Most zombie game i interested had big gameplay changes - DL1, RE4,L4D1,COD etc. while setting was pretty stable thing ( except RE4 where some things was changed because lack of technology but was "reworked" in RE8) - dead rising was similiar with artstyl from begining , DL2 this same thing etc. 

While 7dtd - A16 - guns and zombies + building etc. like WD/l4d1

7dtd - A20 - mad max with zombies. Sign of problem with visual vision is design of zombies - wight looks like mutant and only this type of zombie. Now we have screamer looking like mutant, spider zombie but... wight looks like normal zombie

 

 

 

[Matt115]

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

I tried there. What makes you think anything is going to be different over here? I mean, you make jokes about my nickname so what makes you think I'm going to take you seriously enough to engage you in a discussion when you do that? You just make me not want to talk to you more and more when you act like that. This is why a lot of us out here don't say much because with this attitude you already have, it's highly probable that you're itching to use that vulgar display of power.

 

 

You tried on steam or where? this doesn't matter. This matter only what you are writing here. You are rude (absolut power, fanatics etc) to them so they joke about your nickname.

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

 

Again, you're trying to push buttons. So what if I want to discuss that here to contrast what Reach Gaming is trying to say. It's relevant and on point. This pattern (especially the one you're doing now) is one among the many bad patterns TFP has adopted. It never used to be like this in the early days of TFP, but things changed over the years. Sarcasm, arrogance, ignorance, etc. Many patterns of which are not good traits of a supposed to be professional company. This is a bad pattern that fits right in with what Reach Gaming discussed.

 

Good to know. Maybe you should try talking about what's being discussed instead of being a petty individual seeking to push buttons and p*ss off your community members. But that's the pattern - act childish and make up nicknames that you figure a person should have called themselves, while at the same time hoping others will jump on board with your public shaming attempts. Bad patterns, Roland. Bad patterns.

Yeah, you don't think too much, Roland. had you actually paid attention to what I said, you would have a pretty good idea why you didn't get the responses you expected. If you used your cognitive abilities, you would know that I tried, but because your guys' POS forum is such a mess, I didn't have the ambition to retype what I tried to type in the first place. It's your guys' job to have a reliable website so maybe you should talk to the web dev guys. If your guys' website wasn't such a POS mess, you would have gotten the responses you sought, but I'm not going to type that stuff all over again for it to be sent to limbo and not actually get posted.  This has happened several times.

Patterns patterns patterns. Another lack of examples proves just this same word "pattern"  over and over and over again.

 

"I didn't have the ambition to retype what I tried to type in the first place. It's your guys' job to have a reliable website so maybe you should talk to the web dev guys. If your guys' website wasn't such a POS mess, you would have gotten the responses you sought, but I'm not going to type that stuff all over again for it to be sent to limbo and not actually get posted.  This has happened several times."  I wrote 2.3k post and never this happend to me strange right?😜

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Besides, the dumb down of the game subject isn't even what this discussion was about in the first place. This wouldn't be allowed on Steam (historical proof exists). Reach Gaming discussed how the game changes, reverts, changes, reverts - and it seems like TFP can't make up their mind what they want the game to do or be. You're not can't get anywhere if y'all can't make up your minds. Thus why this game is still in development after almost an entire decade and still there is no end in sight. "It'll be done when it's done." is all we get year after year. Reach Gaming is right. The pattern of do, undo, redo, undo, remake, rework, redo and rinse repeat is all too common with TFP. Also as he said, the game is janky and weird. Animations are goofy, clunky, etc. Just an example among many that can be explained. That's been yet another pattern that's gone on for almost a decade now. They get better, then worse, then better and worse and the cycle continues. After almost ten entire years, y'all can't flesh that stuff out?  Really? I've seen better animations from indie devs with smaller teams so there's no excuse for things to be so janky at this stage of development of 7DTD.

Problem here is you don't want to accept and admit that the company and game have both followed some pretty bad patterns during development and many mistakes keep getting repeated and that it's a repetitious company pattern. Reach Gaming hit home is what the real problem is and TFP won't or don't want to accept the truth. More humility and less self centred pride would be much more welcomed by the community, but this is a pattern TFP have adopted. TFP has gotten comfortable with putting pride before humility.

Reach Gaming - spot on, nailed it, but TFP doesn't want to face the truth and accept it, publicly. Honesty is a lot more respect worthy and welcomed than ignorant / arrogant pride.

They redone a lot of things too many times that's true. But animations looks good - this is not DL2( but DL2 have bad animations too ) - this is more like contagion or nmrih. 

But graphic level is much better that in A11 period - so some things like models etc was worthy to redone again. Just redone systems like perks etc. is mistake

[Jost Amman]

39 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Experimentation is good but... lack of  visiual vision is big mistake. TFP just focused on " fully destroyable voxel game with zombies and survival" so gameplay stuff but they didn't create sure vision.

I don't know if what you said sounds wrong because of the "language barrier", but vision is exactly what TFP always had.

What they always lacked, has been a Roadmap, maybe that's what you wanted to say?

 

They've never had doubts about content (what features the game should have), in fact we have proof in the original Kickstarter page: everything they ever worked on was already in the 2013 Kickstarter goals. They've changed several times HOW they implemented that content, true, but it was never about WHAT to put in the game.

 

It was always about HOW that content should be added, in what FORM (e.g.: LBD vs. Perks or Crafting Grid vs. Crafting List), so in that regard they were doing exactly what someone with time and money should do: experiment with something, if they don't feel it's the right choice, change it or scrap it.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Honestly because explaining this same thing over and over and over and over is frustrating

Well "church of Reach" sounds like possible 7DTD faction XD

Well... other hand... there is  no better animations because.... there is not game similiar to 7dtd.

 

Sorry, I had the punchline in my mind but forgot to write it down. Editied it in now. Exactly, there is no game similar to 7D2D and therefore we don't know what a different developer could have done in the same circumstances.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 

MC is "cubic" , Brick rigs is like lego games ,staxel is like minecraft , teardown is like minecraft too.  But... "Can it be better" Yes.

 

If you ask the question for you personally, sure. You want a different game than the developers and just by imagining a developer who wants a darker game it would have been a better game, for you.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

But this force to increase min. CPU. But here i think better animations aren't even possible because 1. art style - well so do something like l4d2 with guts everywhere would not suit here 2. this is not DL2 with "fun" rangdoll. So better animations is not connected with just CPU but with art style too.

 

Honestly "still were the only ones in the industry that tried their hands on a fully destroyable voxel-world game and succeeded in keeping many players happy for 8 years now." it's not true - you have MC and TEARDOWN for sure. this games are fully destoyable too ( of with small exceptions but 7dtd is

not full destoyable too - trader + bedrock). Teardown is younger but MC is older.

 

I don't see how MC has better animations and at the graphical quality of 7D2D. The same for teardown, and teardown has still to prove it can entertain its players for 8 years.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 

Experimentation is good but... lack of  visiual vision is big mistake. TFP just focused on " fully destroyable voxel game with zombies and survival" so gameplay stuff but they didn't create sure vision. Most zombie game i interested had big gameplay changes - DL1, RE4,L4D1,COD etc. while setting was pretty stable thing ( except RE4 where some things was changed because lack of technology but was "reworked" in RE8) - dead rising was similiar with artstyl from begining , DL2 this same thing etc. 

While 7dtd - A16 - guns and zombies + building etc. like WD/l4d1

7dtd - A20 - mad max with zombies. Sign of problem with visual vision is design of zombies - wight looks like mutant and only this type of zombie. Now we have screamer looking like mutant, spider zombie but... wight looks like normal zombie

 

 

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I don't know if what you said sounds wrong because of the "language barrier", but vision is exactly what TFP always had.

What they always lacked, has been a Roadmap, maybe that's what you wanted to say?

 

They've never had doubts about content (what features the game should have), in fact we have proof in the original Kickstarter page: everything they ever worked on was already in the 2013 Kickstarter goals. They've changed several times HOW they implemented that content, true, but it was never about WHAT to put in the game.

 

It was always about HOW that content should be added, in what FORM (e.g.: LBD vs. Perks or Crafting Grid vs. Crafting List), so in that regard they were doing exactly what someone with time and money should do: experiment with something, if they don't feel it's the right choice, change it or scrap it.

Vision in meaning hm.... clear visual style of the game. This not always connected with gameplay.

 

Ok for example :

you are working on serious WW2 zombie occult game. First you wanted to create tactical shooter with crafting elements but finaly you made very more dynamic shooter but Vision is this same and diffrent type of gameplay

 

You are working on serious WW2 zombie occult game, First you wanted to create tactical shooter with  crafting elements. But you made this game as comedy horror set during WW2. This same type of gameplay but Vision is this same

 

LBD . LDL,  perks grind etc. is  gameplay part. I don't complain about that because if something like that  change well happens.

 

But : first we had more... let say standard zombie shooter weapon pack - shotgun looking like RE4 , MP5 like RE2 ( i know that RE2 remake was released long after 7DTD but this is good example), hunting rifle looking like typical hunting rifle

 

 Now : Ak looks like from Fallout ( yes i know AK is popular weapons in game but check AK from re5 and ak from Fallout 4 - ak looks so similiar to F4  what is a diffrence? RE5 was trying too keep modern Vision while F4 is alternative post apo universe with much diffrent technology in short) ,  rest of them like made by person who don't know how guns should looks like ( this have a lot of sense in Fallout or mad max universe not here) not metion even junk guns

 

Zombie : well we had just typical zombie + lab mutant wight. this had a lot of sense

now : screamer and spider looks like human made but wight like normal zombie so this change looks so strange - increase number of humand made mutants but change old mutant into normal zombie - if there would be just zombie + zombie deformed by radiactive i woudn't complain about change of wight. But here it's looks like lack of one vision.

 

I undestand why the experiment with something. I don't complain about that. that's totaly fine . Only don't create vision is problem: for example

- hey so we want to make zombie game right?

-yep and let this game be set in universe similiar to our but after nuke war because they wanted to stop zombie virus.

-Okay. In USA? 

-Yep

- So maybe guns fully state like texas like change it name

- Okay so there should be a lot of civilian guns and military because they were trying to stop zombie. 

- Yeah just add rust on them - guns spend sometimes outside but it's just few years after zombie outbreak

- Okay but what about zombie? 

- okay so  maybe : there would be reanimated corpses, reanimated corpses people who died because radioactivity and mutant made by humans in labs.

- Okay so ....

(some time later)

So summary guys : near future, virus made by people, military was trying to create evac centers etc.

 

 

 

So things connected with gameplay change but things like vision should be constant. I think nobody in for example in 2015 would expect looking how this game looks like  drone with teddy bear head because this sound like hornet idea

 

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Sorry, I had the punchline in my mind but forgot to write it down. Editied it in now. Exactly, there is no game similar to 7D2D and therefore we don't know what a different developer could have done in the same circumstances.

 

 

If you ask the question for you personally, sure. You want a different game than the developers and just by imagining a developer who wants a darker game it would have been a better game, for you.

 

 

I don't see how MC has better animations and at the graphical quality of 7D2D. The same for teardown, and teardown has still to prove it can entertain its players for 8 years.

 

 

 

You miss undestooded what i mean there. Ok i mean that MC and teardown have diffrent art style so style of animations is diffrent so there is no voxel game similiar to 7DTD. But if TFP finished making 7dtd now and momentaly would do 7dtd2 , animations would be better that in 7DTD because they could higher Min Reqiument CPU so: better CPU --> more options 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Roland]

12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Sarcastic arrogance. Expected. Historical patterns repeat themselves.

 

Lighthearted teasing. Misdiagnosed. Fixed mindset unable to see any other possibilities.

 

12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

I mean, you make jokes about my nickname

 

Your nickname is a joke or if not it is a challenge or a focal point for what you want to discuss. You opened the door for nickname commentary by choosing the one you did. I can help you change it if you don't want to come across as someone whose name is daring anyone to interact with you. Maybe if you had that name but your posts were chill but none of your posts have been chill. Speaking of repeating patterns-- aggressiveness.

 

Finally, even you admit they are jokes. They are JOKES. This is a forum about the zombie apocalypse. We joke and banter and have fun. You want serious business and straight faces and earnestness? Try the mayo clinic forums. Their subject matter is a more serious.

 

12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

It never used to be like this in the early days of TFP, but things changed over the years.

 

I haven't changed my style from day 1 close to 7 years ago. 

 

12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Good to know. Maybe you should try talking about what's being discussed instead of being a petty individual seeking to push buttons and p*ss off your community members.

 

Your problem is that you came here @%$#ed off. I can't control that. I don't treat you differently than anyone else and I'm not @%$#ing off that many people. You can't keep blaming external forces for your internal emotional state. Let it go. This place is most assuredly different than Steam but if you keep posting with a chip on your shoulder and can't lighten up then you are simply going to fulfill your own prophecy. I don't bear you any ill will. You've come against me pretty strongly in your post questioning my cognitive abilities and smacking me down in personal attacks to a much higher degree than my jokes about your nickname. Yet, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones if you can simply relax and enjoy your time here rather than going the opposite direction.

 

12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Besides, the dumb down of the game subject isn't even what this discussion was about in the first place. This wouldn't be allowed on Steam (historical proof exists).

 

This isn't steam. The topic is the mistakes TFP are making with their development and "dumbing down the game for consoles" emerged as a part of the conversation. I'm fine with it being part of the conversation evidenced by my bringing it up instead of shutting it down. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's fine, but don't use "off topic" as an excuse. I'm using my vulgar display of power to say that it is on topic. So we're good to discuss.

 

12 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Reach Gaming - spot on, nailed it, but TFP doesn't want to face the truth and accept it, publicly. Honesty is a lot more respect worthy and welcomed than ignorant / arrogant pride.

 

I gave a a truthful response earlier in the thread and gave evidence for why Reach's speculations were off the mark. Schwaanz also was there when Reach gave his opinion and responded to him with a TFP response. The information is here but you have to look for it.

 

I will forbear joking with you and keep things serious in all my responses from now on since that seems to be what you want.

[Rotor]

This thread reminds me of a NASCAR joke.

 

"Look, we are making another left turn!"

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, Rotor said:

This thread reminds me of a NASCAR joke.

 

"Look, we are making another left turn!"

 

For people who join the thread late and don't read what was already posted, they think it is the first left turn...

 

8 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Lots of passive anger going on here

 

Not super passive though.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Matt115]

I watched gamescom - sad as hell.

I watched The Arhon easter egg hunt in call of duty - sad even more.

i watcched this tread - a little bit positive

[Maharin]

Passive regressive?

[Roland]

Gassy Retentive

[Maharin]

That will surely lead to an explosion.