Jump to content

This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.


Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Ok. But you're making up your own lore here... the devs have never confirmed any specific lore on purpose, they wanted each player to make up their own story in their minds. On the other hand, since there's no "official lore" of what really happened or how many years ago, you can't assume anything. You could be right or you could be wrong.

Well but we get "old" models of guns - if you checked similiar games from this period guns will be similiar - shotgun looks like RE4 first shotgun, MP5 could be even in resident evil, sniper rifle was even similiar to RE5 sniper rifle. So you can cleary see that was typical "modern horror game" weapon set.  Most building in 7DTD still have electricity , so...  military/civilians guns should be still in good condition. it's not Mad Max when everything is rusted or Horizon where people don't know many thing ( no spoilers that's why i don't talk more about that).  looking on buidling we can say this +- this same period like TLOU

 

12 hours ago, Roland said:


Based on what evidence?  How much is “a lot”? I said making cuts is a normal part of the editing process and you said it is a sign of disaster. I asked for some evidence and you listed several games that you could not possibly have compared the pre-edited versions to the final product. Now you say again that making a lot of cuts is an industry known sign that the game has problems. Evidence?  
 

As for horror, you are saying that the style of the guns is what makes or breaks this as a true horror experience for you?  Because the guns look more stylistically like mad max it makes it impossible for you to think of the game as horror?  I don’t think like that. My definitions of what qualifies as horror seem to be very different than yours. In my opinion, if any random person watched gameplay of 7 Days to Die they would think it pretty gruesome and horror themed. I’m betting there are parents that play this game out of sight of their younger children because the violence and horror elements are deemed to be too much. 
 

Horror is probably in the eye of the Beholder….heheh

 

How much is a lot? well that's hard to say. Everything depends on each year - now it's much games in production that in 2013 right? Cut some things or small - yes. But big or a lot of them is bad sigh. 

Ok i will put you evidence but you have to use google translate 

Dl2 

Dying Light 2: chaos produkcyjny i fatalne kierownictwo. Tak wyglada praca w Techland? | Antyweb

Notes: most reviews i read says that DL1 was better - so this can be reason why DL2 is weaker game that dl1

 

Aliens colonial marine :

 

 

+ this supposed to be tactical shooter but it was changer into typical "dynamic shooter"  ( you can translate yourself part "obcy:koszmarne starcie" - in older review of this same newsspaper ( There is CD action and CD action retro) - there was more about that but i don't have time to looking for this) 

Silent hill  downpour :

 

8:30 well only halve of this video is in polish. 

 

 

 

img20220802_14261520.jpg

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Roland said:

 

As for horror, you are saying that the style of the guns is what makes or breaks this as a true horror experience for you?  Because the guns look more stylistically like mad max it makes it impossible for you to think of the game as horror?  I don’t think like that. My definitions of what qualifies as horror seem to be very different than yours. In my opinion, if any random person watched gameplay of 7 Days to Die they would think it pretty gruesome and horror themed. I’m betting there are parents that play this game out of sight of their younger children because the violence and horror elements are deemed to be too much. 
 

Horror is probably in the eye of the Beholder….heheh

Yes this break experience. Guns are parts of game world right? that's why in RE you have so big describitions , details etc.  For example : In RE4 you can buy RED9 - this looks like real life gun C96 - well this guns looks very unsual but it's very logical why it's added  in short: - game take place in Spain. C96 was a symbol during hispanic Civil war.  Well this is interesting detail in my opinon. 

But then we have cod - yes this is not horror game but... japanish soldiers using stg44 looks like cheap B - movie. 

So yes guns are elements of world building too - if you asked me to advice about guns  because you are making WW2 horror i would you ask - which year and where will take place. 

 

In the suffering there is a lot TNT because there were mines under prison, in bioshock  you have Great depresion style guns - thompson,  shotgun etc.

In cryostasis You have ww2 soviet guns because this is prison ship from 68 so guns were used from war because there is no need to use AK47 because prison guard are rear troops. 

 

Dead fall adventure take place before WW2 so you have  pre ww2/early stage ww2 guns - thompson, mp 38 , suomi etc. and this is just AA game in Indiana Jones style. 

 

Random person - you mean totaly random person or random player? because random player will say just say - typical sandbox game with zombie like dayz.

Why? pretty grusome and horror themed  game is The Forest and a lot of people know this game - nude cannibals, eating human flesh, using body parts as warning, deformed mutants babies, children experiments even mutated kid as final boss. This is pretty edgy - 7dtd is much much "casual" that this game.

If someone would saw - dayz , 7dtd, the forest,  no more room in hell2 , days gone , nazi zombie army , f.e.a.r , dead space , dead island and l4d2 , cod zombies , contagin  and put in in 3 gore category this would looks probably like:

 

High gore : the forest, NZA , fear, DS, DI, l4d2

medium gore : days gone , cod zombies

low gore :Dayz , 7dtd, contagion 

 

 

Well -  you know -this depends on parents - some of them will do as you say some of them will be facepalming because something looks bad. I remember my friend grandpa who saw that my friend was watching horror movie and he was so frustrated because german soldiers were using AK47. Btw in my country there is company similiar to lego making WW2 sets for kids and this set are very realistic - you can read technical inforamtion about guns , vehicles, when it was produced, very detailed unifroms of soldiers etc. So in theory bricks for 8 yo kid are more  historical accuracy that  70$ COD.

Btw. one of polish school reading : Janko muzyka (jack the musician) - there is boy. He almost die during birth. He is often beaten in school. When he have 10 years old he take violins for someone he is is send to court and after that he get so hard spanking that he died. And this  was obligatory book in primary school.  So maybe i just have "lower sensity" of gore because books like this was just "normal book",  just like impaled someone or boiled alive.

 

Details mean a lot in games not only guns - for example - TLOUS you can find "warhammer like" minifigures. In dreadout 2 you can find stalls with bootlegs books popular in indoneshia, in fatal frame you have tons of small details connected with japanish culture. And this is soo good.  So why i stick so much about guns models? Because :

1. smaller things are hard to spot, 

2. you see guns often

3.  well weapons are important things in such games - i think nobody check flashlight or wrench. 

 

 

 

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Sal said:

You say this and then go on a long rant of excuses as to why the game is still the way it is after nearly 10 years and use the "development" changes as a reason behind it.

 

It seems like you only want the term "development" to be used whenever it fits your point of view.

 

If this game was only released ~2 years ago then you would have a point. But it's been out for nearly 10 years with several constant major changes to the core game itself from each version and eventually people get to the point of "I'll believe it when I see it but I don't have much faith". Because that's whats been offered and that's on TFP themselves.  This last release has some good aspects in the game no doubt. But it also has alot of bad points as well. Some of the issues are still there from A17 bug reports that haven't been addressed. Hell, look at the new folder structure BS (which is a big issue). All of this points to the game declining. So why should I think A21 is going to be any different than it was from A17 to A18, or A18-19, or A19 to 20 when they haven't given me any reason to believe it will? Because its "new" and going "gold"? GTFO.

 

 

First off, let me address something right away.  GTFO sums up your attitude right away.  If someone doesn't agree with you, there opinion is worthless, they are treated to insults by you.  Noticed I just gave my opinion, and I never insulted the creator of the youtube video.  I just voiced my opinion that was different than his.

 

Second, what is video game development?  I think this definition is great

 

Video game development is the process of developing a video game

 

No where in the description of the video game development is a specific timeframe or that the development has to be a straight line from point A to point B.  Nowhere in the description of game development does it talk about everything working perfectly out of the box or that anything added in the first Alpha has to remain in the last Alpha.  Even in AAA games we know that content was removed during the development of the game (in some cases, modders brought back the cut content).  I have not redefined what game development is, just using the basic understanding of what game development is.  Some developers develop a game quickly, some take longer than others.  Some developers have an easy game to develop or can based it on past work so the work load is much easier for them, some are starting from scratch doing something that hasn't been done before.  Some developers have 100s/ 1000s of qualified staff to work on it from the very beginning, some are just starting from scratch and adding talent as they go along.  Some developers wouldn't pre-release a game until it was around A20/21 (using 7D2D as an example) while others will never release the game until it goes to Beta or production.

 

Third, nothing I posted in my opinion was a long rant of excuses.  It was a well thought out post on why things change and what are the various reasons behind those changes.  Just because you don't agree with what I said doesn't make what I wrote a rant or a post filled with excuses.  Sometimes it pays to look at the other side, and understand that we don't know all of the internal discussions or plans.

 

Edited by BFT2020 (see edit history)
  • Thanks 2
  • Have a Cookie 1
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

First off, let me address something right away.  GTFO sums up your attitude right away.  If someone doesn't agree with you, there opinion is worthless, they are treated to insults by you.  Noticed I just gave my opinion, and I never insulted the creator of the youtube video.  I just voiced my opinion that was different than his.

 

Second, what is video game development?  I think this definition is great

 

Video game development is the process of developing a video game

 

No where in the description of the video game development is a specific timeframe or that the development has to be a straight line from point A to point B.  Nowhere in the description of game development does it talk about everything working perfectly out of the box or that anything added in the first Alpha has to remain in the last Alpha.  Even in AAA games we know that content was removed during the development of the game (in some cases, modders brought back the cut content).  I have not redefined what game development is, just using the basic understanding of what game development is.  Some developers develop a game quickly, some take longer than others.  Some developers have an easy game to develop or can based it on past work so the work load is much easier for them, some are starting from scratch doing something that hasn't been done before.  Some developers have 100s/ 1000s of qualified staff to work on it from the very beginning, some are just starting from scratch and adding talent as they go along.  Some developers wouldn't pre-release a game until it was around A20/21 (using 7D2D as an example) while others will never release the game until it goes to Beta or production.

 

Third, nothing I posted in my opinion was a long rant of excuses.  It was a well thought out post on why things change and what are the various reasons behind those changes.  Just because you don't agree with what I said doesn't make what I wrote a rant or a post filled with excuses.  Sometimes it pays to look at the other side, and understand that we don't know all of the internal discussions or plans.

 

I agree about that.  Except that can be based it can be easier. Not always this is true - let's say we have game X , you do too much similiar to X ? people will complain about lack of new things ( tomb rider, Assasin creed, SH) too much new things - people will complain that this is game is too diffrent ( heroes of might and magic 4, Ac origins, few castlevania games)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

Can we agree that the feature list of kickstarter is the game it was originally supposed to be? Can you point to any kickstarter-features that were once in the game and not there anymore?


The interchangeable clothes system if they ditch what they currently have (which has been mentioned) in favour of the "sets" and only 4 slots. Because then we wouldn't have clothing slots.

Yes, i'm a smart arse ;)

Edited by KhaineGB (see edit history)
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He served the truth straight up. Some people really don't like the truth being told bluntly. He painted the picture pretty lightly too as there's a lot more that could have been said to point out the shortcomings of 7DTD, but it's enough information to get a clear picture of how things have been going with the game's development. Truths were told. Agreed.

  • Like 2
  • Dislike 3
  • Prime Face Palm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/1/2022 at 11:58 AM, Roland said:

For almost 10 years there have always been short-sighted people predicting the crash and burn collapse of this game and the end of TFP. 
 

They have been wrong, they are wrong, and they will be wrong. The server issues are simply due to the necessary cross-platform infrastructure changes for the future of this game. Playing a game that is still in development is going to mean there will be periods of time where some things don’t work. 
 

If players of large MP servers love the game as much as they claim then they will be back when everything is done and running well again. That is what I see time and time again— people who for one reason or another had to shelve the game for a year or more due to development issues come back and absolutely love playing again when those issues end. Every alpha release has been bigger than the previous ones precisely because this game draws people back in addition to attracting new. 
 

Sure, some become disenfranchised because they don’t like design decisions or just finally grow bored (like with ANY video game) but the actual measurable evidence overall is that of growth. 
 

TFP is in a very good place. They are finishing up this game and have started preliminary work on two new games as well as on bringing the full version of this game to consoles with cross platform compatibility to PC servers. And, most importantly, they are doing all of this without over extending themselves as a company. 
 

The same people who rage that TFP is taking so long because they are lost would rage that TFP is rushing the game because they’re surely about bankrupt if TFP finished up the game more quickly.  These people always see the worst possible scenario and present it as the facts.

 

The only thing i wanna is when are we gonna get the dang bandits that have been promised for what feels like 4 alphas now 😛 XD :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

The only thing i wanna is when are we gonna get the dang bandits that have been promised for what feels like 4 alphas now 😛 XD :)

 

We have tips now on the game loading screen, but back in Alpha 8 we had a loading screen that said, "Bandits coming soon" 

 

4 alphas...? lmao...

 

When they finally get here, it will have been a long time coming. :)

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

He served the truth straight up.

Maybe HIS truth. No offense, but again, that is the perspective of someone who's not inside TFP dev studio and like everyone else they don't see the meetings, discussions, and the huge amount of work that has been (and is) done on this game.

 

Some people are simply not cut for Early Access (should have been called In Development, IMO), because they're impatient and easily scared and always think the worst. The problem is that some "bad apples" who abused the EA format by really scamming their customer base, have ruined the entire basket, and that's why many players are ready to bash the devs whenever there's even the faint hint of something they don't understand.

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Dislike 2
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Maybe HIS truth. No offense, but again, that is the perspective of someone who's not inside TFP dev studio and like everyone else they don't see the meetings, discussions, and the huge amount of work that has been (and is) done on this game.

 

Some people are simply not cut for Early Access (should have been called In Development, IMO), because they're impatient and easily scared and always think the worst. The problem is that some "bad apples" who abused the EA format by really scamming their customer base, have ruined the entire basket, and that's why many players are ready to bash the devs whenever there's even the faint hint of something they don't understand.

Blah blah blah. You spout the same defence of the game and company all the time while dismissing truth as bad apples. You do the same thing over on Steam. it is you who is the bad apple, defending things that are rubbish and nonsensical excuses made by The Fun Pimps. They do no wrong in your eyes. Why? You're a fanatic. This is why we can't have nice things in a respectable time frame anymore. People like you support bad business.

  • Dislike 1
  • Prime Face Palm 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

You spout the same defence of the game and company all the time while dismissing truth as bad apples.

You misunderstand, the bad apples I was talking about are not the players, are some other devs that have actually exploited and scammed people using Early Access.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/3/2022 at 9:36 PM, youcantgetridofme said:

He served the truth straight up. Some people really don't like the truth being told bluntly.

Small correction. Those type of people don't mind if it's on the other end of the spectrum and you post how great TFP and the game is. You will be welcomed with open arms.

 

But if you have anything negative to say then you had better get ready to feel the wrath of the those who are so far stuck up....you know....that it automatically gets written off and labeled as "dey only doing it for moneyz" by the fragile, dismissive and....you know....type people who act like you just disrespected their grandmother at a funeral.  Butt, even if you are polite and bring up a real issue you will be told to "mod the game if you don't like it". This is a goto move by the ....you know...type people.

 

Any and all constructive criticism is only allowed under 4 conditions.

 

A) You MUST be a....you know. Whether its a mod on the forum or a wannabe mod (which is VERY rare because those types are usually too busy....you know.)


B) Being a well known modder in the community is a big plus.  Your complaints will garner more attention and be received much better by the community than the average person.

 

C) You must say a minimum of 5 nice things about TFP and the game when also posting constructive criticism, otherwise you will be met with...well...you know.

 

D)  Accept the fact that it's pointless to ever post any kind of construction criticism at all without be met with everything mentioned here because of these type of .....you know.

 

Welcome to the community by the way.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Dislike 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sal said:

Small correction. Those type of people don't mind if it's on the other end of the spectrum and you post how great TFP and the game is. You will be welcomed with open arms.

 

But if you have anything negative to say then you had better get ready to feel the wrath of the those who are so far stuck up....you know....that it automatically gets written off and labeled as "dey only doing it for moneyz" by the fragile, dismissive and....you know....type people who act like you just disrespected their grandmother at a funeral.  Butt, even if you are polite and bring up a real issue you will be told to "mod the game if you don't like it". This is a goto move by the ....you know...type people.

 

Any and all constructive criticism is only allowed under 4 conditions.

 

A) You MUST be a....you know. Whether its a mod on the forum or a wannabe mod (which is VERY rare because those types are usually too busy....you know.)


B) Being a well known modder in the community is a big plus.  Your complaints will garner more attention and be received much better by the community than the average person.

 

C) You must say a minimum of 5 nice things about TFP and the game when also posting constructive criticism, otherwise you will be met with...well...you know.

 

D)  Accept the fact that it's pointless to ever post any kind of construction criticism at all without be met with everything mentioned here because of these type of .....you know.

 

Welcome to the community by the way.

 

It is actually very true that forums tend to collect people with a positive opinion about the developers game. I for example wouldn't be here for such a long time and would not have taken the job as moderator if I wasn't largely pleased with the general direction of the game.

 

It follows that someone gets more dissenting posts when he posts critical stuff than if he were praising something.

 

You say somewhere "But even if you are polite...".  "EVEN IF". You do realize that it should idealy be "ONLY IF". Some people are used to or think it is necessary to be rude to get heard (partly that is a cultural thing). Whether that is true or not they should not be surprised to get likewise replies back in an otherwise friendly forum. And this should not be the place to vent frustration either.

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
  • Thanks 1
  • Prime Bless You 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

It is actually very true that forums tend to collect people with a positive opinion about the developers game. I for example wouldn't be here for such a long time and would not have taken the job as moderator if I wasn't largely pleased with the general direction of the game.

 

It follows that someone gets more dissenting posts when he posts critical stuff than if he were praising something.

 

You say somewhere "But even if you are polite...".  "EVEN IF". You do realize that it should idealy be "ONLY IF". Some people are used to or think it is necessary to be rude to get heard (partly that is a cultural thing). Whether that is true or not they should not be surprised to get likewise replies back in an otherwise friendly forum. And this should not be the place to vent frustration either.

 

 

Oh yeah. So, if we should not vent frustrations with the game here on the forum, then where do you suggest people do that? Is a forum not meant for open discussion on all subjects and matters (venting frustrations included) surrounding the game and TFP? People can vent and still have a civil discussion, but I appears that isn't welcome here on this forum.

 

Sal is right and it shows in your last comment. It's also why a lot of people don't bother commenting on the forum or Steam message board for that matter. TFP is really only getting opinions and views from one side of the fence. As you said yourself, this isn't the place to vent frustrations. Those people who want to comment on subjects know exactly what will happen if they voice their discontent and so do you. It's also why some content creators are going through YouTube instead, to voice their opinion.

Reach Gaming is right. Nobody seems to want to talk about it and it's sad. I've tried many times over on Steam, but it was met with a lot of arrogance, ignorance and well, straight up disrespect and it was allowed by the you know who's. The you know who's even at some points assisted others' trolling comments to get reactions and create a situation which eventually results in a you know what.

Sal and Reach Gaming are right. Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree. I have lots I'd like to say about the company and game, but alas I keep silent and don't say much because even if it is respectful and polite venting it'll go ignored or be dismissed.

In your own words, "... this should not be the place to vent frustration ..."

@Sal and Reach Gaming spoke the truth.
 

Edited by youcantgetridofme (see edit history)
  • Dislike 1
  • Prime Face Palm 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

 and Reach Gaming spoke the truth.
 

 


They spoke their opinion.

By calling it "truth" you renege on your "Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree."

You are essentially calling those that disagree liars and invalidating their opinion without even hearing it.


Mr Reach doesn't bring forward anything new to the discussion. It's the same positions and opinions that are put forward daily here.   Regardless of what timelines, mechanics, and "game" the players want, its must be recognized that the game is still early access.

Players have the agency to opt in and opt out as they see fit. 

 

Edited by 8_Hussars (see edit history)
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, 8_Hussars said:


They spoke their opinion.

By calling it "truth" you renege on your "Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree."

You are essentially calling those that disagree liars and invalidating their opinion without even hearing it.

Anyone who understands how opinions work knows what I said is an opinion. I did not anywhere say it was a fact. You're picking through the haystack to find a needle that isn't there. I also said 'may' - not will, not does, but may. That means some people might disagree with me. I did not essentially call anyone a liar nor invalidated anyone's opinions either. I can't very well do that if nobody's commented their opinions now can I? What's happened is you didn't like my comment and you got triggered. Chill. They're just opinions.

  • Have a Cookie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Youtubers can be great supporters for games, however their opinions must always be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Especially those who have controversial opinions and/or thumbnails on their videos.

 

They benefit greatly from more views/subs so even more so...

 

If he truly wanted a discussion he could of posted here but chose to have a one sided narrative instead.

  • Like 2
  • Have a Cookie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Oh yeah. So, if we should not vent frustrations with the game here on the forum, then where do you suggest people do that? Is a forum not meant for open discussion on all subjects and matters (venting frustrations included) surrounding the game and TFP? People can vent and still have a civil discussion, but I appears that isn't welcome here on this forum.

 

What is open or civil about venting frustration? Venting frustration means you turn off your brain and start a rant. You let your negative feelings form your words and you want to hurt with your words. I may be misunderstanding the words though, english is not my first language.

 

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

Sal is right and it shows in your last comment.

 

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

It's also why a lot of people don't bother commenting on the forum or Steam message board for that matter. TFP is really only getting opinions and views from one side of the fence. As you said yourself, this isn't the place to vent frustrations. Those people who want to comment on subjects know exactly what will happen if they voice their discontent and so do you. It's also why some content creators are going through YouTube instead, to voice their opinion.

 

I can immediately point you to polite negative views posted here in the forum and nothing desastruous happens. Nothing I can notice.

 

Matt115 is mostly a critic of the overall direction of the game and wants a darker 7D2D. Do people aggressively shout him down? Are his posts deleted?

Sal posts overwhelmingly negative comments. Is he shouted down? Are his posts deleted?

Is he getting counter-arguments or dislikes? Yes, that can happen.

 

So what do you fear exactly? Getting counter-argument posts? Isn't that what an open discussion is about? 

 

Or is it the dislikes? I'm no fan of the dislikes, but they are of no consequence and I can't prevent people using them. Use them yourself. Or make an argument that dislikes should be removed from the forum, I'll happily support you in that.

 

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Reach Gaming is right. Nobody seems to want to talk about it and it's sad. I've tried many times over on Steam, but it was met with a lot of arrogance, ignorance and well, straight up disrespect and it was allowed by the you know who's. The you know who's even at some points assisted others' trolling comments to get reactions and create a situation which eventually results in a you know what.

 

Can't comment on that, I'm not reading the steam forums.  I'm only seeing what happens here. Have you been unfairly treated here or is someone calling you names? Then report it (even if the culprit were me, by the way). Simple and effective way to get too aggressive people off your back

 

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Sal and Reach Gaming are right. Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree. I have lots I'd like to say about the company and game, but alas I keep silent and don't say much because even if it is respectful and polite venting it'll go ignored or be dismissed.

 

How do you know it is dismissed? If I or anyone else argues with you it does say nothing about whether a developer has read your post and maybe noticed that many people said the same and it might be a problem.

Or he read your post, had a different opinion and dismissed it. Yes, both is possible. It is hard to convince people that they have been wrong about something

 

Keep on saying what you think in a polite way and you might not be the most popular guy on the forum but you won't be thrown out either. And the best thing is that developers usually don't have the time to read any replies to your post. If at all they probably will just read your (initial) post.

Case in point: Roland even removes most replies from the Dev Dairy so that devs only see the feedback and not the discussions afterwards.

 

1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

In your own words, "... this should not be the place to vent frustration ..."

@Sal and Reach Gaming spoke the truth.
 

 

We clearly have a different understanding of those words.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
  • Dislike 1
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

What is open or civil about venting frustration? Venting frustration means you turn off your brain and start a rant. You let your negative feelings form your words and you want to hurt with your words. I may be misunderstanding the words though, english is not my first language.

 

 

 

I can immediately point you to polite negative views posted here in the forum and nothing desastruous happens. Nothing I can notice.

 

Matt115 is mostly a critic of the overall direction of the game and wants a darker 7D2D. Do people aggressively shout him down? Are his posts deleted?

Sal posts overwhelmingly negative comments. Is he shouted down? Are his posts deleted?

Is he getting counter-arguments or dislikes? Yes, that can happen.

 

So what do you fear exactly? Getting counter-argument posts? Isn't that what an open discussion is about? 

 

Or is it the dislikes? I'm no fan of the dislikes, but they are of no consequence and I can't prevent people using them. Use them yourself. Or make an argument that dislikes should be removed from the forum, I'll happily support you in that.

 

 

Can't comment on that, I'm not reading the steam forums.  I'm only seeing what happens here. Have you been unfairly treated here or is someone calling you names? Then report it (even if the culprit were me, by the way). Simple and effective way to get too aggressive people off your back

 

 

How do you know it is dismissed? If I or anyone else argues with you it does say nothing about whether a developer has read your post and maybe noticed that many people said the same and it might be a problem.

Or he read your post, had a different opinion and dismissed it. Yes, both is possible. It is hard to convince people that they have been wrong about something

 

Keep on saying what you think in a polite way and you might not be the most popular guy on the forum but you won't be thrown out either. And the best thing is that developers usually don't have the time to read any replies to your post. If at all they probably will just read your (initial) post.

Case in point: Roland even removes most replies from the Dev Dairy so that devs only see the feedback and not the discussions afterwards.

 

 

We clearly have a different understanding of those words.

Vent
verb. /vent/ vent your anger/frustration, etc. to do or say something to show your anger or another strong, bad feeling.

 

So as you can see, venting frustration can be done civilly while still being polite and respectful is possible. Exactly what Reach Gaming did. 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Or he read your post, had a different opinion and dismissed it. Yes, both is possible. It is hard to convince people that they have been wrong about something

Indeed it is.

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Can't comment on that, I'm not reading the steam forums.  I'm only seeing what happens here. Have you been unfairly treated here or is someone calling you names? Then report it (even if the culprit were me, by the way). Simple and effective way to get too aggressive people off your back

To understand it all you would have had to have been on Steam watching what the PR guys were doing. A few on this forum hang out on the Steam discussion board. They were involved in baiting and indirect subtle trolling as a group. It was OK for the PR guys to go along with it and troll me, but it wasn't OK for me to return the favour in a respectful way. Instead they straight up knee jerked and because I wasn't praising the game and hailing to TFP, I was bias ejected from the community. Ejected because I did not highly praise the game and because I had negative constructive criticism. They lumped my comments as being 'trolling' and 'baiting' and they banned me for doing what they were doing long before I started playing with the same cards they were playing with. It was all a process that lapsed over the course of several months.

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

So what do you fear exactly?

Being banned for having opinions about the company and / or game - that somebody will grudge me over my opinions and work with others (which happened on Steam) to sway an unjust ban simply because they didn't like what I had to say. The PR guys were going along with it too, allowing these other people to group report me repeatedly, to encourage a ban. They even said they had been discussing it for a while. I knew it was coming eventually  because they simply don't like my feedback. One even admitted openly to having a bias for the game and TFP. Because of that bias and disagreement with my comments plus staged reports, I was unjustly banned.

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

How do you know it is dismissed?

See above. Their PR / moderators could pass notes along to the devs, but when some of them have a strong bias, there is an extremely high probability those comments will be dismissed and disregarded.

 

2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

If he truly wanted a discussion he could of posted here but chose to have a one sided narrative instead.

He could have posted here, but sometimes more can be said with words and voice inflection to get a point across better. Some people don't like to type and prefer talking through a video. Lots of things to consider. YouTube is a big platform and a great place to put out a message you want heard or seen, to see what others think on the subject. TFPs forum has a very tiny population contrasted to that of YouTube.

 

2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

They benefit greatly from more views/subs so even more so...

 

Granted, some people do this, but not all do. It's become more of a thing to stereotype content creators because they have the option to monetise videos to earn a living.

 

2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

their opinions must always be taken with a grain of salt.

 Well, that comment should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because someone chooses to use a different platform to express themselves doesn't make it any different than expressing our views here. Some people prefer to make videos and some people prefer to type. Either platform is a way to express ourselves and should be treated equally without bias.

Edited by youcantgetridofme (see edit history)
  • Prime Face Palm 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummm...   Maybe everyone should consider taking a step back for a bit. 

 

While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber...   It's a game.  That's  it.  While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game.  My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game.  I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging.   What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it.   But it's not the center of my existence.   I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game.  in reality that is a short-lived endeavor.  Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future.  I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.

 

Listen.  Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime.  That's just silly.   Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on.  Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored.   In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.  

 

Games come and go.  And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it.   But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed.   It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game.  It's pretty much unprecedented.   I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added.  But ultimately,  at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.   

 

Just my semi-drunken rant.....   🙃

Edited by MichaelL. (see edit history)
  • Like 6
  • Have a Cookie 1
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Anyone who understands how opinions work knows what I said is an opinion. I did not anywhere say it was a fact. You're picking through the haystack to find a needle that isn't there. I also said 'may' - not will, not does, but may. That means some people might disagree with me. I did not essentially call anyone a liar nor invalidated anyone's opinions either. I can't very well do that if nobody's commented their opinions now can I? What's happened is you didn't like my comment and you got triggered. Chill. They're just opinions.


I simply challenged the indication that Sal, and Mr Reach's opinions were "truth".  "Truth" has pretty strong connotations as does the opposite.  Perhaps is was an innocent remark and I misinterpreted your meaning however truth and opinion are not interchangeable.

The opinions and frustrations of a sub-set of players with respect to the development process is well known and documented here.  Some readers ignore it entirely, some tire of the endless reframing and rehashing of the same old talking points, and some do not want the forum to be an echo chamber for one side or the other, so they engage occationally.  

Edited by 8_Hussars (see edit history)
  • Like 1
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 Well, that comment should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because someone chooses to use a different platform to express themselves doesn't make it any different than expressing our views here. Some people prefer to make videos and some people prefer to type. Either platform is a way to express ourselves and should be treated equally without bias.

 

I want to apologize for my blanket statement about youtubers.  I certainly have seen my fill of inflammatory youtube videos in the past about 7D2D and lumped in his video with the rest.  After re-watching his video, I can feel his genuine worry and concern about the changes in the upcoming Alpha...

 

I can empathize with how he feels given how many Alphas he has experienced and all of the changes that have gone back and forth.  It is my opinion that part of his frustration is due to the fact he has played and featured the game for so long, the current content has grown stale.  For example, he mentions his disappointment that additional content such as vehicles, etc. may never be added.  

 

All I can add to the topic is that the team is fully aware how long the game has been in development and is prioritizing finishing promised kickstarter features (e.g. bandits, story, etc.)  before entertaining additional features such as more vehicles and such.

 

For reference, Allan, posted this response to Reach's video which is currently pinned at the top of it.

 

Quote

Mr. Reach, I really hope the rest of the Dev team and I at The Fun Pimps can meet or exceed these expectations. There may be a few bumps, flip flops, system changes, and balancing tweaks along the way for sure, but our end goal is to make a super polished game ready for Gold release. Lots of art assets in the current game were made with old technologies and techniques that needed a major overhaul. This will offer players a more modern look while increasing performance. Water survival was way too easy in past Alphas. This change coupled with the new crafting progression will bring back that feeling of survival to the game. There are a ton of changes coming in A21 that we hope can address some of the concerns for networking and save game issues. Backend framework changes are going to make it possible to add new content much easier not only for us working on vanilla, but for the modding community as well. As far as the engine is concerned, it was chosen for it's capability to handle a fully destructible voxel world. An engine update in A21 will bring some bug fixes and new tools to help us smooth out some of these issues. We also have support from various partners to help us fix and stream line these systems not only for performance, but for console portability as well. We hear our players. We hear the modding community. We have a vision and an end goal. It's just going to take some trial and error to get there.

 

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, MichaelL. said:

Ummm...   Maybe everyone should consider taking a step back for a bit. 

 

While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber...   It's a game.  That's  it.  While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game.  My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game.  I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging.   What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it.   But it's not the center of my existence.   I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game.  in reality that is a short-lived endeavor.  Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future.  I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.

 

Listen.  Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime.  That's just silly.   Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on.  Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored.   In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.  

 

Games come and go.  And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it.   But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed.   It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game.  It's pretty much unprecedented.   I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added.  But ultimately,  at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.   

 

Just my semi-drunken rant.....   🙃

Great post! I completely agree with this take on all the "situation".

I'll use your post, sir, if you allow me, to segway into my own opinion...

 

I think there are a lot of people, in the on-line communities like Steam, 7D2D, YouTube and so on... that are subconsciously channeling their own life frustrations into this or that game, this or that fight. Many times I've been called a "fanboy" or "white knight", or even a "shill" on Steam, when I opposed the point of view of people who seem to fight changes to the game that they don't agree with, with the same conviction as if they were fighting for the survival of humankind or for the right to vote in their country.

 

Things have really gone bonkers in my opinion, and the explanation is that there are other problems, in the (real) life of most of those people, which they can't/won't address, so they come here (or on other games' forums) to bring on their "righteous" fight in a completely irrelevant context just to compensate for that.

 

What most people don't understand about me, is that when I agree with the devs, or praise the game, it's simply because I've been able to play almost all Alpha versions of this game without any major issues, I had a lot of fun in each of them, and I'm also not burning myself out on the game. I enjoy(ed) the game, I almost never exprience bugs and when I'm bored with vanilla, I can play one of the great mods, also that thanks to the commitment to modding that the devs themselves always have had.

 

In fact, I often play other games when I have time, and even change genre! Would you believe it? ;)

 

When I read people calling me a shill, TFP PR, white knight or fanboy, I just chuckle and sometimes I even feel sorry at how "mentally focused" they are to reach a point where they feel the need to hate someone they don't even know, on something so irrelevant as a game or an opinion on a game.

 

On the other side, when the devs are accused of being lazy, shady, unprofessional and so forth... I often find myself defending them, not because I owe them something or because I need their approval, but because my real life job is, in some ways, similar to theirs (I'm a freelance in a completely different field...) so I can kind of understand their difficulties, challenges, hurdles and in general how they work.

 

When some people, like I said before, become very polarized, they can only see shenanigans, plots against them by the devs and/or other people, and in general they create their own conspiracy theories to explain why their polarized point of view is not readily accepted by all. Then when they're criticized or even refuted with facts, they lash out and start name-calling. I've seen this too many times, that's how "internet and people" works.

 

One other aspect is also probably AGE. Culture has changed a lot depending on what generation you're from, so there's also some kind of cultural barrier between some  older gamers (like me) and the younger ones. We don't understand them, and they don't understand us, because we come from completely different places IMO. Of course, I think they're often entitled brats ;) and want everything served on a silver platter, but I also know this is my biased point of view! :ohwell:

 

I really don't care about the insults when I defend the game or the devs, since my life does not revolve around 7D2D (or gaming in general). On the other hand, I feel kind of sorry for these people who think I'm part of some conspiracy, because I think that they must have their own load of issues in real life. :ohwell:

 

The game will go in the direction the devs deem best, and people have to accept that. You may not like the direction where the game is going, but you can't treat development choices by the devs, like if it was a coupe d'etat removing democracy in your country. Chill down.

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)
  • Like 4
  • Prime Face Palm 2
  • Prime Bless You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...