This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[Matt115]

39 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Calling a sensible business decision greedy is like calling a lion bloodthirsty when he eats an innocent lamb. Now I don't know if it was a sensible business decision to enter game pass and epic store, but I see long-term advantages for players (more choice of platform) and you haven't shown how that is so bad for players. In fact generally cross-platform play is on the wishlist of players for a lot of games. Are you the representative of the steam-community that is disappointed other unwashed masses are let in?

 

The bad stuff is all short-term as far as I can see. A percentage of players have to endure a sub-par browser for a while. And new players coming from game pass encounter a few bugs.

 

In essence business as usual, features that get shown in an unfinished state to players and bugs that take a long time to go away. Remember how long players had to endure minibikes sinking into the earth? Two years. If you don't want to see bugs, don't buy a game in EA. 

 

 

NZA 4 get one year exclusivity on EPIC and few more games too so..."cross platform" is bad sign. So yes this is bad for players. A lot of MP players in cross platform games complain about that because often one of sides have strange advantage.  Here is Steam X epick but still server problem create a very.... controversial problem. 

 

39 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

If TFP is really greedy and ignores the community, then it always was doing that. I don't see a change.

 

A developer who tries to finish a game after 8 years in EA is a bad thing for you? Meanwhile a part of the community you speak of complains about the game taking too long! What now? Which group should TFP try to please? And did you see any signs of crunch? Wouldn't features and bugfixes come at an accelerated rate if they were in crunch now?

 

What did TFP promise and fail to do, by the way?

You mentioned duration but the only promise I heard from them was "Its done when its done".

You seem to complain about bugs but did they ever promise to have a bug-free game in EA?

You mention gamepass. Did they promise to never enter gamepass or epic store?

 

 

Well.... i think he mean that they are doing a lot of reworks so this game could be finished few years ago. And that's true.  if i good remember bandits were tested during a14 (?). So yes this was possible to finish this game earlier.  But i agree there is no signs of crunch. 

 

I know that you asked him but

"What did TFP promise and fail to do, by the way?

You mentioned duration but the only promise I heard from them was "Its done when its done".

You seem to complain about bugs but did they ever promise to have a bug-free game in EA?

You mention gamepass. Did they promise to never enter gamepass or epic store?"

 

2,3,4 question you are right. 

but 1? "survival horror" - check diffrent "survivor horror" games - RE2, The forest, dead space, crystasis ,  cod zombie mode , dying light etc.

1. lack of resources?  In 7dtd you can find tones of ammo, crafting parts etc

2. hard and numerouse enemies ?  RE2 have tons of very hard enemies mr X lickers etc. the forest? mutants. Dead space - close combat and a lot of diffrent enemy types. cryostasis - while some enemies are weak that most of them can kill you very easy, cod zombie mode? "traditional" zombie can have tons of HP while special zombies can kill you very easy , DL? tons of tons of enemies and for most game except end game (while end game is just for fun)  you have to grind or be skill full to kill special zombies like vultures.

3 horror setting? 

in RE2 you can find corpse everywhere, damage system is realy gore, psychopats, very gore, controvesial topics , 

The forest? eating human flesh, nude canibals, childen expermentation, moral decision.

Cryostatis: dark, deadly abadoned ship full of frozen zombies strange visions etc

dead space - guy crash head himself, in  next room women cut her one throeat, "occult" ( well i don't want to explain DS lore) symboles everywhere , executions on civilians etc.

cod zombie - well setting is pretty dark a little bit controverisal and rly grousome ( check 7dtd zombie then ww2 NZ zombies)

DL - hangmans everywhere,  zombie kids, psychopats,  governament trying to manipulate media, very gore  (cut zombie in halve, eaten corpses everywhere)

 

 

while 7dtd : zombies looks just standard - not decyied in NMRINH2 style but not like infected humans from l4d,  Corpse sometime but usually this same model even in this same room so this looks so cheap. but no hangmans,  corpses used as warning etc, sometimes you can find gore or random meat but this looks very .... meh - lack of lying single hands, legs etc.  lack of writing on walls, controverial topics - this looks a little bit  like - we are making movie about zombie but for 16 yo teens. 

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

NZA 4 get one year exclusivity on EPIC and few more games too so..."cross platform" is bad sign.

 

What kind of argument is that? Microsoft buys some developers so Microsoft buys TFP? Brad Pitt is an actor so all men are actors? Telltale went bankrupt so TFP will go bankrupt?

 

Is NZA 4 cross platform? I think not, after all it is exclusive on EPIC which is the most clear case of a non-cross platform game anyone could find.

 

Are there games on EPIC that are not exclusive? Yes, many.

Does EPIC buy out lots of games that already have been years in EA? Not really. I don't know a single example but there may be one or two, who knows? Is it probable that they make a deal with 7D2D who already has been sold in numerous steam deals at a low price and almost everyone interested already has a copy? Not really.

 

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

So yes this is bad for players. A lot of MP players in cross platform games complain about that because often one of sides have strange advantage.  Here is Steam X epick but still server problem create a very.... controversial problem. 

 

It still beats non-cross platform by a mile. Especially since you don't need to play 7D2D with anyone you don't like. Especially since "strange advantage" is hardly important in SP and co-op multiplayer, the central modes of play. Especially since 7D2D is impossible to protect from hacking by architecture and by size of the company (as even AAA developers fail at that). And hacking easily creates advantages multiple times as severe.

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

Well.... i think he mean that they are doing a lot of reworks so this game could be finished few years ago. And that's true.  if i good remember bandits were tested during a14 (?). So yes this was possible to finish this game earlier.  But i agree there is no signs of crunch. 

 

No, I first misread him as well. But I don't think he wants the game completed faster. He instead does not want TFP to fall into the trap of turning on crunch and mistreating their employees. Cudos for that by the way, not many people would think of that.

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

I know that you asked him but

"What did TFP promise and fail to do, by the way?

You mentioned duration but the only promise I heard from them was "Its done when its done".

You seem to complain about bugs but did they ever promise to have a bug-free game in EA?

You mention gamepass. Did they promise to never enter gamepass or epic store?"

 

2,3,4 question you are right. 

but 1? "survival horror" - check diffrent "survivor horror" games - RE2, The forest, dead space, crystasis ,  cod zombie mode , dying light etc.

 

Like you said below, for a 16 yr old teen this is survival horror. That you or I are used to harder stuff makes the zombies in the game not into teddy bears.

 

How about Grounded from Obsidian? In Steam it got the "horror" label as well. Same as Don't starve, Subnautica, Death Stranding. Is horror only horror if there is an 18+ label on it?

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

1. lack of resources?  In 7dtd you can find tones of ammo, crafting parts etc

2. hard and numerouse enemies ?  RE2 have tons of very hard enemies mr X lickers etc. the forest? mutants. Dead space - close combat and a lot of diffrent enemy types. cryostasis - while some enemies are weak that most of them can kill you very easy, cod zombie mode? "traditional" zombie can have tons of HP while special zombies can kill you very easy , DL? tons of tons of enemies and for most game except end game (while end game is just for fun)  you have to grind or be skill full to kill special zombies like vultures.

 

Much better argument. But everything here is still very relative. I don't play insane as I don't think I would survive very long. Do you play insane and do you easily survive there? 

Numerous enemies? There are numerous enemies every horde night. Are they all different? No. Was that promised?

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

3 horror setting? 

in RE2 you can find corpse everywhere, damage system is realy gore, psychopats, very gore, controvesial topics , 

The forest? eating human flesh, nude canibals, childen expermentation, moral decision.

Cryostatis: dark, deadly abadoned ship full of frozen zombies strange visions etc

dead space - guy crash head himself, in  next room women cut her one throeat, "occult" ( well i don't want to explain DS lore) symboles everywhere , executions on civilians etc.

cod zombie - well setting is pretty dark a little bit controverisal and rly grousome ( check 7dtd zombie then ww2 NZ zombies)

DL - hangmans everywhere,  zombie kids, psychopats,  governament trying to manipulate media, very gore  (cut zombie in halve, eaten corpses everywhere)

 

 

while 7dtd : zombies looks just standard - not decyied in NMRINH2 style but not like infected humans from l4d,  Corpse sometime but usually this same model even in this same room so this looks so cheap. but no hangmans,  corpses used as warning etc, sometimes you can find gore or random meat but this looks very .... meh - lack of lying single hands, legs etc.  lack of writing on walls, controverial topics - this looks a little bit  like - we are making movie about zombie but for 16 yo teens. 

 

 

I get it. It isn't enough horror for you. But what you propose is partly window dressing that would not be horror either. Lying single hands? Come on, that is kindergarden horror. Once seen a hundred times even 10 year olds will be bored. 😉

Horror can't survive over a playtime of more than 1000 hours even if there were more in 7D2D.

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

14 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

1) Developers stoped playing the games they were working on

 

I can tell you that the developers haven't stopped playing 7 Days to Die. They play it regularly. One of them even plays on Twitch regularly.

 

14 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

2) Ignored all important critical community and tester feedback

 

TFP has never ignored any community and tester feedback let alone all the super critical important stuff that pours in. They don't always end up agreeing with the conclusions that some voices in the community suggest as needed changes but they don't ignore. They also leave the possibility for community desired changes to be modded into the game so that their vanilla version stands next to the modded versions as choices for people to play.

 

11 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

Not hard to put two and two together and figure out the answer isn't five

 

Well by your own criteria, TFP is in a good place and steadily making progress to deliver their finished game.

 

14 hours ago, SURVIVE said:

Summary: TFP promised more then it could, disappointed community, joined the ranks of developers scrambling to finish their game so they can move on to the next one with full team. most of us that play just laugh anymore.

 

Woah...how'd you get five?

[Matt115]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

What kind of argument is that? Microsoft buys some developers so Microsoft buys TFP? Brad Pitt is an actor so all men are actors? Telltale went bankrupt so TFP will go bankrupt?

 

Is NZA 4 cross platform? I think not, after all it is exclusive on EPIC which is the most clear case of a non-cross platform game anyone could find.

 

Are there games on EPIC that are not exclusive? Yes, many.

Does EPIC buy out lots of games that already have been years in EA? Not really. I don't know a single example but there may be one or two, who knows? Is it probable that they make a deal with 7D2D who already has been sold in numerous steam deals at a low price and almost everyone interested already has a copy? Not really.

 

Yep :  Zombie Army 4: Dead War na Steam (steampowered.com)

Zombie Army 4: Dead War | Już dostępne do pobrania i zakupu w Epic Games Store

 

So... there is a chance that TFP will be interested with "exclusivity" offer for their next game and that's a problem ( well i think you hear about steam vs epic store war)

 

 

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

It still beats non-cross platform by a mile. Especially since you don't need to play 7D2D with anyone you don't like. Especially since "strange advantage" is hardly important in SP and co-op multiplayer, the central modes of play. Especially since 7D2D is impossible to protect from hacking by architecture and by size of the company(as even AAA developers fail at that). And hacking easily creates advantages multiple times as severe.

 

Well that's is not point here but i will give you what i mean on "martha is dead" example - this game was censured on PS - so if TFP would consider do something controvesial they will probably give up about that because cross platform - why? on steam you can put so many thing that will no chance to be added on Window Store. So... they will probably add another game/games on few platforms - this mean next game will be "safe " 

 

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

No, I first misread him as well. But I don't think he wants the game completed faster. He instead does not want TFP to fall into the trap of turning on crunch and mistreating their employees. Cudos for that by the way, not many people would think of that.

Thx well that's exaplain what he mean

 

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

Like you said below, for a 16 yr old teen this is survival horror. That you or I are used to harder stuff makes the zombies in the game not into teddy bears.

 

 

How about Grounded from Obsidian? In Steam it got the "horror" label as well. Same as Don't starve, Subnautica, Death Stranding. Is horror only horror if there is an 18+ label on it?

 

Much better argument. But everything here is still very relative. I don't play insane as I don't think I would survive very long. Do you play insane and do you easily survive there? 

Numerous enemies? There are numerous enemies every horde night. Are they all different? No. Was that promised?

 

 

I get it. It isn't enough horror for you. But what you propose is partly window dressing that would not be horror either. Lying single hands? Come on, that is kindergarden horror. Once seen a hundred times even 10 year olds will be bored. 😉

Horror can't survive over a playtime of more than 1000 hours even if there were more in 7D2D.

 

 

 

 

Don't starve is.... survival but not horror.  Subnatica? Hm... is about water so in theory yep this is some type of horror game - i watched about subnatica  lore and this sound's like.... aliens but underwater. Death Stranding- this is japanish style of making game ( well... i think some outifts of fatal frame characters could be interesting for Snowdog) but this easy could be connected with SCP (well if you read some "worlds" scp this game sound so similiar to few of them) - so yeah this is survival horror not scary in " there is a guy with axe and kills" way but in world build style.  Grounded in survival like raft but .... "horror" tags on steam don't mean nothing - some people set DS 1 as casual as trolling ( i don't have strange to find and send you screens from CD action).  Ofc - horrors can be cartoonish - Spook jump scares manshion , Wick etc. But... this have typical horror style - looks cute at first then things happens - Wick looks very positive at least then you have kids ghosts in forest,  have hanging himself, demons , occult topic , burning alive etc.

 

Numerous enemies is not only gameplay  but  world buidling element too:  Re before police station - a lot of zombies.  DL1? vultures nest, in few places in TEW you have to ran away from big groups of enemies.   In some games number of enemies depends on diffculty level  like DMC - but usualy "normal" is canon diffculty - for example in DMC on some higher difficulty you can meet enemies that shoudn't be here ( for example angelous knights) for story/lore reasons.  L4D2 other hand- number of zombies in much lower on hightest diffuculty but have more hp, do bigger dmg.  But vision how this should looks like is normal diffculty. 

 

 "I get it. It isn't enough horror for you. But what you propose is partly window dressing that would not be horror either. Lying single hands? Come on, that is kindergarden horror. Once seen a hundred times even 10 year olds will be bored. 😉

Horror can't survive over a playtime of more than 1000 hours even if there were more in 7D2D." 

 

Lying single hands is example how to fix this for "now" without spam of people that TFP change light tone game in horror game.  There there should be done a lot of changes - like adding lore, more corpses, more controversial stuff ( horrors usually are... controversial - nightmare from elm street, ring, It , rec , etc. ). Now nothing can change too much - maybe more corpses could a little bit but this need more models and put in more logical places.

Playtime is not only "game time"  for horror game anymore. Fnaf, poppy  - are pretty short games but.... people spend a lot of times making theories, analisis hints etc. 

Okay you can say this game are linear and that's true but - there in a lot of lore in the forest and you can play this for hours like in 7dtd. This game is boring for me ( people who like to make jokes,  racing track can spend much time playing in this game) but lore and setting is pretty good. 

 

So it's can't be change into horror game. that's too late. But KEEP horror setting during A14-16? Yes this would be possible. I wish i was more... social person in this period

Edited August 16, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

44 minutes ago, Roland said:

Woah...how'd you get five?

 

🤔

 

Easily = 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8 rounded up  😉

 

So if you hide the decimal point, 2 + 2 = 5  😁

[Matt115]

49 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I can tell you that the developers haven't stopped playing 7 Days to Die. They play it regularly. One of them even plays on Twitch regularly.

 

 

TFP has never ignored any community and tester feedback let alone all the super critical important stuff that pours in. They don't always end up agreeing with the conclusions that some voices in the community suggest as needed changes but they don't ignore. They also leave the possibility for community desired changes to be modded into the game so that their vanilla version stands next to the modded versions as choices for people to play.

 

 

Well by your own criteria, TFP is in a good place and steadily making progress to deliver their finished game.

 

 

Woah...how'd you get five?

I agree with you... again in this same topic... that's strange

[mprojekt]

38 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

I agree with you... again in this same topic... that's strange

 Witnessing this as a 3rd party is a bit surreal.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, mprojekt said:

 Witnessing this as a 3rd party is a bit surreal.

another "typical" day on 7dtd forum 🤪

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Yep :  Zombie Army 4: Dead War na Steam (steampowered.com)

Zombie Army 4: Dead War | Już dostępne do pobrania i zakupu w Epic Games Store

 

So... there is a chance that TFP will be interested with "exclusivity" offer for their next game and that's a problem ( well i think you hear about steam vs epic store war)

 

I really don't see how 7D2D being cross-platform has much to do with their next game being or not being exclusive on EPIC. As you have seen the code to go cross-platform took TFP less than a year, probably less than half a year even. And if I had to guess it was mainly the work of just one programmer, the new network code guy they hired in January(?).

 

So lets assume 7D2D were not cross-platform and they took the network code of 7D2D for their next game, then they would need just a few months to get the epic store code in if they got a good offer from EPIC.

 

So a missing cross-platforminess of 7D2D is no hindrance at all for TFPs next game to be exclusive if they want to do it and epic makes a good offer.

 

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well that's is not point here but i will give you what i mean on "martha is dead" example - this game was censured on PS - so if TFP would consider do something controvesial they will probably give up about that because cross platform - why? on steam you can put so many thing that will no chance to be added on Window Store. So... they will probably add another game/games on few platforms - this mean next game will be "safe " 

 

Ah, that is a different argument than you first brought up, but a good one. Yes, once the game is on xbox and PS5 TFP will have to conform to their rules. More platforms, and probably a little more rules.

 

You say DL (whatever that is) has child zombies. On what platforms is that game available? I would really roll on the floor laughing if you had to admit it is available on PS.😁

 

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

Thx well that's exaplain what he mean

 

 

Don't starve is.... survival but not horror.  Subnatica? Hm... is about water so in theory yep this is some type of horror game - i watched about subnatica  lore and this sound's like.... aliens but underwater. Death Stranding- this is japanish style of making game ( well... i think some outifts of fatal frame characters could be interesting for Snowdog) but this easy could be connected with SCP (well if you read some "worlds" scp this game sound so similiar to few of them) - so yeah this is survival horror not scary in " there is a guy with axe and kills" way but in world build style.  Grounded in survival like raft but .... "horror" tags on steam don't mean nothing - some people set DS 1 as casual as trolling ( i don't have strange to find and send you screens from CD action).  Ofc - horrors can be cartoonish - Spook jump scares manshion , Wick etc. But... this have typical horror style - looks cute at first then things happens - Wick looks very positive at least then you have kids ghosts in forest,  have hanging himself, demons , occult topic , burning alive etc.

 

Yes, I've seen some games on steam have a horror tag that were obviously jokes. So I selected a few games I knew would have horror in them. Yes, even don't starve has horror elements (AFAIK, never played it for long), just like a book by Edgar Alan Poe IS horror.

 

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

Numerous enemies is not only gameplay  but  world buidling element too:  Re before police station - a lot of zombies.  DL1? vultures nest, in few places in TEW you have to ran away from big groups of enemies.   In some games number of enemies depends on diffculty level  like DMC - but usualy "normal" is canon diffculty - for example in DMC on some higher difficulty you can meet enemies that shoudn't be here ( for example angelous knights) for story/lore reasons.  L4D2 other hand- number of zombies in much lower on hightest diffuculty but have more hp, do bigger dmg.  But vision how this should looks like is normal diffculty. 

 

 "I get it. It isn't enough horror for you. But what you propose is partly window dressing that would not be horror either. Lying single hands? Come on, that is kindergarden horror. Once seen a hundred times even 10 year olds will be bored. 😉

Horror can't survive over a playtime of more than 1000 hours even if there were more in 7D2D." 

 

Lying single hands is example how to fix this for "now" without spam of people that TFP change light tone game in horror game.  There there should be done a lot of changes - like adding lore, more corpses, more controversial stuff ( horrors usually are... controversial - nightmare from elm street, ring, It , rec , etc. ). Now nothing can change too much - maybe more corpses could a little bit but this need more models and put in more logical places.

Playtime is not only "game time"  for horror game anymore. Fnaf, poppy  - are pretty short games but.... people spend a lot of times making theories, analisis hints etc. 

Okay you can say this game are linear and that's true but - there in a lot of lore in the forest and you can play this for hours like in 7dtd. This game is boring for me ( people who like to make jokes,  racing track can spend much time playing in this game) but lore and setting is pretty good. 

 

So it's can't be change into horror game. that's too late. But KEEP horror setting during A14-16? Yes this would be possible. I wish i was more... social person in this period

 

Instead of talking about what TFP promised and what 7D2D is, we are back at your favourite subject, how to change 7D2D to your liking. 😁

Edited August 17, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

11 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I really don't see how 7D2D being cross-platform has much to do with their next game being or not being exclusive on EPIC. As you have seen the code to go cross-platform took TFP less than a year, probably less than half a year even. And if I had to guess it was mainly the work of just one programmer, the new network code guy they hired in January(?).

 

So lets assume 7D2D were not cross-platform and they took the network code of 7D2D for their next game, then they would need just a few months to get the epic store code in if they got a good offer from EPIC.

 

So a missing cross-platforminess of 7D2D is no hindrance at all for TFPs next game to be exclusive if they want to do it and epic makes a good offer.

 

Well...  nobody expected that adding horse armor into oblivion will change game industry right?  7dtd sold good. we can both agree about that. If EPIC manage to make deal with Creative Aseemble to pay them money for add total war troy on epic as gift during released. In NZA you get 1 year exculusivity right? so there is a chance that they can try to convice TFP to do something similiar. Ofc TFP can not agree with this deal - but now it's possible. If 7DTD was only steam exclusive ( yes i know about consoles but i  mean PC only platforms) chances of such deal would be pretty low.

 

11 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Ah, that is a different argument than you first brought up, but a good one. Yes, once the game is on xbox and PS5 TFP will have to conform to their rules. More platforms, and probably a little more rules.

 

You say DL (whatever that is) has child zombies. On what platforms is that game available? I would really roll on the floor laughing if you had to admit it is available on PS.😁

 

No. i don't mean DL here - but if you wrote about that zombie kids - well this accepted now - walking dead by taletell , days gone even old dead space etc..

But i mean new TFP game. I think it will be something diffrent that zombie game. Martha is dead was censored on PS.  i will give you a list of censored games on PS - List of Censored Games | PS5 | PS4 | Vita | - PlayStation Network - PSNProfiles . So less platforms mean more freedom. Well... you can add realy "edgy" things on steam if this have sense - like martha is dead removing face cutscene. Okay so why i wrote here about that? 7dtd on platfroms mean bigger income --> sign that next game will be on more platfroms that steam too.  so some things could be added on steam but not on PS

 

 

11 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Instead of talking about what TFP promised and what 7D2D is, we are back at your favourite subject, how to change 7D2D to your liking. 😁

They promised "horror survival " game in 2013 right - so this mean.... survival horror in meaning from 2014 not from 2020 or 2022 right?    because let say that 2005 - 2015 had similiar visual style of such horror games. 

So this should looks like something like : Sillent hill , F.e.a.r. , Resident evil ( 4-6) , Dead space,  L4D1, Kiling floor, outcast , nazi zombie army 1&2 - dark, a lot of blood, corpses everywhere, writings on walls or notes.

So you could know what you can expect looking on this game + alpha versions like A11. And it was similiar - dark, corpses ( well this can looks funny but... for 2013-2014 it's was looking soo good) etc. And if you write me that's is impossible because technology changes, trends etc.  that i can say that No more room in hell 2 look's like how 7DTD should looks like if TFP keept this  horror setting from this period - well nmrih2 looks like game that could be released in 2012 ( i don't mean quality of graphic but art style)

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well...  nobody expected that adding horse armor into oblivion will change game industry right?  7dtd sold good. we can both agree about that. If EPIC manage to make deal with Creative Aseemble to pay them money for add total war troy on epic as gift during released. In NZA you get 1 year exculusivity right? so there is a chance that they can try to convice TFP to do something similiar. Ofc TFP can not agree with this deal - but now it's possible. If 7DTD was only steam exclusive ( yes i know about consoles but i  mean PC only platforms) chances of such deal would be pretty low.

 

You are randomly switching between talking about 7D2D and their next game here. Those are different cases:

 

7D2D: Is already on the long tail of sales for PC, i.e. almost everyone who is interested in the genre on PC already has the game. Epic would be idiots if they pay much for the game to be exclusive at release. TFP would be idiots if they accepted a low price for something that will surely alienate many of their customer base. Furthermore there is Microsoft. 7D2D is on game pass, we don't know how long, but if it goes past release (what I would assume) then epic-exclusivity would violate the contract with Microsoft.

 

The next game: Yes, Epic might choose to make them an offer for exclusivity, like they can do with any developer on earth. Though if TFP decides to use Early Access again the chance would be relatively low.

Lets assume they don't use EA: A game with a potential of say 2 million sales aka above 40 million revenue would also need Epic to make a substantial offer, lets say it would need to be several millions for sure. Because lost sales on steam would be in the millions of revenue, after exclusivity those sales on steam would be mostly in steam sales at reduced price because the game by that time is old. Nobody on steam buys 1 year old games at full price.

 

Now with several millions from Epic do you think that hiring a programmer for half a year (about 50k costs) to add Epic functionality to the game is any kind of hindrance to such a deal?

 

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

No. i don't mean DL here - but if you wrote about that zombie kids - well this accepted now - walking dead by taletell , days gone even old dead space etc..

But i mean new TFP game. I think it will be something diffrent that zombie game. Martha is dead was censored on PS.  i will give you a list of censored games on PS - List of Censored Games | PS5 | PS4 | Vita | - PlayStation Network - PSNProfiles . So less platforms mean more freedom. Well... you can add realy "edgy" things on steam if this have sense - like martha is dead removing face cutscene. Okay so why i wrote here about that? 7dtd on platfroms mean bigger income --> sign that next game will be on more platfroms that steam too.  so some things could be added on steam but not on PS

 

Yes, I agree it would put a damper on any such plans. But it doesn't seem important to TFP to add edgy controversial things to their games.

 

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

They promised "horror survival " game in 2013 right - so this mean.... survival horror in meaning from 2014 not from 2020 or 2022 right?    because let say that 2005 - 2015 had similiar visual style of such horror games. 

 

Since your definition of horror is very narrow and specific you list all those games from 2005-2015 that fit your definition. But I'm sure there were other games that fit that label in that era but do not contain horror in your opinion because it isn't your cup of tea.

Even if not, what is to hinder TFP to adopt the current definition? After all the game isn't even released yet, at release people will judge the game with todays sensibilities.

 

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

So this should looks like something like : Sillent hill , F.e.a.r. , Resident evil ( 4-6) , Dead space,  L4D1, Kiling floor, outcast , nazi zombie army 1&2 - dark, a lot of blood, corpses everywhere, writings on walls or notes.

 

Other games do not make a definition. Horror in 7D2D is horror as defined by TFP, and the only problem they would have is if their definition would clash with the majority of their players. You definitely are not the majority, you are a lone fighter for your way of horror, I don't remember a single other forum user ever agree to your complaint.

 

24 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

So you could know what you can expect looking on this game + alpha versions like A11. And it was similiar - dark, corpses ( well this can looks funny but... for 2013-2014 it's was looking soo good) etc. And if you write me that's is impossible because technology changes, trends etc.  that i can say that No more room in hell 2 look's like how 7DTD should looks like if TFP keept this  horror setting from this period - well nmrih2 looks like game that could be released in 2012 ( i don't mean quality of graphic but art style)

 

 

This is the old argument "It was once in the game so it is guaranteed to be in the game". That argument didn't work with behemoth, LBD, ... and it will not work with your definition of horror unless someone inside TFP suddenly gets a taste for adding hands lying around.

 

 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

You are randomly switching between talking about 7D2D and their next game here. Those are different cases:

 

7D2D: Is already on the long tail of sales for PC, i.e. almost everyone who is interested in the genre on PC already has the game. Epic would be idiots if they pay much for the game to be exclusive at release. TFP would be idiots if they accepted a low price for something that will surely alienate many of their customer base. Furthermore there is Microsoft. 7D2D is on game pass, we don't know how long, but if it goes past release (what I would assume) then epic-exclusivity would violate the contract with Microsoft.

 

The next game: Yes, Epic might choose to make them an offer for exclusivity, like they can do with any developer on earth. Though if TFP decides to use Early Access again the chance would be relatively low.

Lets assume they don't use EA: A game with a potential of say 2 million sales aka above 40 million revenue would also need Epic to make a substantial offer, lets say it would need to be several millions for sure. Because lost sales on steam would be in the millions of revenue, after exclusivity those sales on steam would be mostly in steam sales at reduced price because the game by that time is old. Nobody on steam buys 1 year old games at full price.

 

Now with several millions from Epic do you think that hiring a programmer for half a year (about 50k costs) to add Epic functionality to the game is any kind of hindrance to such a deal?

 

Microsoft will do nothing - they have to focus on Activision Blizzard so honestly i don't care about them here because only Epic could be interested.  Well : " if TFP decides to use Early Access again the chance would be relatively low." - Well darkness dungeon 2 came on Epic as  EA so this is possible.  "Nobody on steam buys 1 year old games at full price." - this is not true - i know people who bough this same game on 4 diffrent platform so.... yes i think not every person using Epic store so for them steam released game will be "new game" not year old.  

 

"Now with several millions from Epic do you think that hiring a programmer for half a year (about 50k costs) to add Epic functionality to the game is any kind of hindrance to such a deal?" 

No. But bad thing for players? yes. I saw a few articles etc about this hm.... Steam Vs. Epic fight and this will not bring anything good for players in long term. So yeah it would be better if 7dtd were only on steam and in MC pass

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Yes, I agree it would put a damper on any such plans. But it doesn't seem important to TFP to add edgy controversial things to their games.

Well for sony "swimsuit outfit" can be too edgy so... this hard  too say

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Since your definition of horror is very narrow and specific you list all those games from 2005-2015 that fit your definition. But I'm sure there were other games that fit that label in that era but do not contain horror in your opinion because it isn't your cup of tea.

Even if not, what is to hinder TFP to adopt the current definition? After all the game isn't even released yet,

 

 

Other games do not make a definition. Horror in 7D2D is horror as defined by TFP, and the only problem they would have is if their definition would clash with the majority of their players. You definitely are not the majority, you are a lone fighter for your way of horror, I don't remember a single other forum user ever agree to your complaint.

 

This is the old argument "It was once in the game so it is guaranteed to be in the game". That argument didn't work with behemoth, LBD, ... and it will not work with your definition of horror unless someone inside TFP suddenly gets a taste for adding hands lying around.

 

 

 

"Since your definition of horror is very narrow and specific you list all those games from 2005-2015 that fit your definition. But I'm sure there were other games that fit that label in that era but do not contain horror in your opinion because it isn't your cup of tea." 

 

Well yes? because 7dtd is game from this period of time? ofc there were diffrent types of horrors games like Mad father, PS 1 style horror game etc. but this is much diffrent type of horror games.  

 

"Even if not, what is to hinder TFP to adopt the current definition? After all the game isn't even released yet, at release people will judge the game with todays sensibilities." what? 1. technology - TFP can't make 7dtd with tlous2 or days gone art style. This is not possible. 2.  well "Plastic" artstyle like fnaf, poppy playtime don't suit into zombie horror game

Btw.  sons of the forest or  nmrih2 manage to keep old horror artstyle while have modern graphic

 

"at release people will judge the game with todays sensibilities." it was released a lot of time ago on steam - so if someone wanted to see how this game will looks like - this person can. Btw - somehow sons of the forest and nmrih2 have big community while keeping old style.

 

7dtd looks now  more like Rust or Fallout. Both are not horror games. Well you can say 'there are zombies!" yeah but hl2 have zombie too. Dead rising 1 was typical zombie horror game while dead rising 4 looks like parody of zombie games.

 

"I don't remember a single other forum user ever agree to your complaint." well  that's true. Only i met with comment that 7dtd should be like "3d project zomboid" while this is far that my view. In my opinion gameplay should be this same just older setting.

Why nobody agree? I think most people treat 7dtd as "light game to play with friends" now. Like MC. So this diffrent type of players that NMRINH2 players. Btw i check their discord and.... it's much much edgier even that things i'm writing about 7dtd. Damn... this is even sometimes too edgy for me

Edited August 17, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Other games do not make a definition. Horror in 7D2D is horror as defined by TFP, and the only problem they would have is if their definition would clash with the majority of their players. You definitely are not the majority, you are a lone fighter for your way of horror, I don't remember a single other forum user ever agree to your complaint.

 

 

To be fair, this forum only represents like what? 1% of all players? Maybe even less. Compared to how many copies are sold and how many people play, this is a dead place. There is mod discords that are more frequented.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

Microsoft will do nothing - they have to focus on Activision Blizzard so honestly i don't care about them here because only Epic could be interested. 

 

That wasn't my argument at all. Microsoft would step in preventing Epic from getting an exclusive deal if they still have a contract with TFP by the time it releases. And it doesn't matter that their lawyers have a lot of work with Activision, their law department can handle mutliple things, for example sending a simple "cease and desist" letter. That is probably something even one of their interns could do.

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well : " if TFP decides to use Early Access again the chance would be relatively low." - Well darkness dungeon 2 came on Epic as  EA so this is possible.  "Nobody on steam buys 1 year old games at full price." - this is not true - i know people who bough this same game on 4 diffrent platform so.... yes i think not every person using Epic store so for them steam released game will be "new game" not year old.  

 

I'm not talking about possibilities, I am talking about probabilities. If you buy a lottery ticket today it is entirely possible you are a millionare next week, but I don't expect it, I don't even think about it.

In fact I would suggest to you not to worry much about what to do with all that money 😉. In the same vein I say you don't need to worry about 7D2D 1 getting exclusive on Epic.

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

"Now with several millions from Epic do you think that hiring a programmer for half a year (about 50k costs) to add Epic functionality to the game is any kind of hindrance to such a deal?" 

No. But bad thing for players? yes. I saw a few articles etc about this hm.... Steam Vs. Epic fight and this will not bring anything good for players in long term. So yeah it would be better if 7dtd were only on steam and in MC pass

 

I'm not talking about an exclusivity deal being bad or not. I was contesting your argument that cross-platform was some kind of bad sign. Which it isn't. cross-platform has almost nothing to do with exclusivity

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well for sony "swimsuit outfit" can be too edgy so... this hard  too say

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

"Since your definition of horror is very narrow and specific you list all those games from 2005-2015 that fit your definition. But I'm sure there were other games that fit that label in that era but do not contain horror in your opinion because it isn't your cup of tea." 

 

Well yes? because 7dtd is game from this period of time? ofc there were diffrent types of horrors games like Mad father, PS 1 style horror game etc. but this is much diffrent type of horror games.  

 

"Even if not, what is to hinder TFP to adopt the current definition? After all the game isn't even released yet, at release people will judge the game with todays sensibilities." what? 1. technology - TFP can't make 7dtd with tlous2 or days gone art style. This is not possible. 2.  well "Plastic" artstyle like fnaf, poppy playtime don't suit into zombie horror game

Btw.  sons of the forest or  nmrih2 manage to keep old horror artstyle while have modern graphic

 

It seems it is the language barrier again. I don't know what you get from reading my posts but it seems rather random.

I have not been talking about redesigning 7D2D. I was talking about whether the current horror in 7D2D is horror, in the eyes of TFP and the larger public at release. And I would say it sure is. So why change 7D2Ds art at all?

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

"at release people will judge the game with todays sensibilities." it was released a lot of time ago on steam - so if someone wanted to see how this game will looks like - this person can. Btw - somehow sons of the forest and nmrih2 have big community while keeping old style.

 

That person can also load A16 and see LBD. Does that matter in any way?

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

7dtd looks now  more like Rust or Fallout. Both are not horror games. Well you can say 'there are zombies!" yeah but hl2 have zombie too. Dead rising 1 was typical zombie horror game while dead rising 4 looks like parody of zombie games.

 

I can't say anything about Rust. If DR1 is viewed by their developers as horror then I'm sure the developers view DR4 as horror as well. Remember I mentioned your narrow definition of horror above?

Fallout definitely has horror inside. Look at this: steam://openurl/https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/22370/ss_be899cfc4b2716f77d0a07737d519895ae0919f2.1920x1080.jpg?t=1634779495 .

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

"I don't remember a single other forum user ever agree to your complaint." well  that's true. Only i met with comment that 7dtd should be like "3d project zomboid" while this is far that my view. In my opinion gameplay should be this same just older setting.

Why nobody agree? I think most people treat 7dtd as "light game to play with friends" now. Like MC. So this diffrent type of players that NMRINH2 players. Btw i check their discord and.... it's much much edgier even that things i'm writing about 7dtd. Damn... this is even sometimes too edgy for me

 

 

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 

To be fair, this forum only represents like what? 1% of all players? Maybe even less. Compared to how many copies are sold and how many people play, this is a dead place. There is mod discords that are more frequented.

 

Sure, this is not an irrefutable fact. Its like modern statistics works. By looking at a subset you try to guess what the larger population thinks. And with hot topics like LBD or farming we have a lot more posts even though it is just 1% of players.

 

Now I'm sure there are more players who would want more horror somewhere. But that he is the lone fighter for his sense of horror in this forum is at least something to think about, lets say a "bad sign" 😁. Can it really be that a sizable percentage of players (say >20%) desperately wants more horror and only Matt115 is here demanding it?

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

That wasn't my argument at all. Microsoft would step in preventing Epic from getting an exclusive deal if they still have a contract with TFP by the time it releases. And it doesn't matter that their lawyers have a lot of work with Activision, their law department can handle mutliple things, for example sending a simple "cease and desist" letter. That is probably something even one of their interns could do.

 

Well yes they can handle multiple things but : this would be  another argument of Sony against Microsoft takeover Activision. So Microsoft woudn't prevent Epic. Why risk loosing control over Activision to get deal with TFP?

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

I'm not talking about possibilities, I am talking about probabilities. If you buy a lottery ticket today it is entirely possible you are a millionare next week, but I don't expect it, I don't even think about it.

In fact I would suggest to you not to worry much about what to do with all that money 😉. In the same vein I say you don't need to worry about 7D2D 1 getting exclusive on Epic.

 

 

 

I mean TFP' new game exclusivity. 7DTD is just reason why Epic could be interested to do deal with TFP about new game

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

It seems it is the language barrier again. I don't know what you get from reading my posts but it seems rather random.

I have not been talking about redesigning 7D2D. I was talking about whether the current horror in 7D2D is horror, in the eyes of TFP and the larger public at release. And I would say it sure is. So why change it?

 

Yeah language barrier here. Some thing can be translated in diffrent way  

 

Well  this would be pointless from economical and PR point of view - well people used to "light tone" of this game. So there is no point to change setting into more "classic horror style". But most things in media conneted about 7dtd is not horror but RP, fun with friends and.... more realistic Mincraft.

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

I can't say anything about Rust. If DR1 is viewed by their developers as horror then I'm sure the developers view DR4 as horror as well. Remember I mentioned your narrow definition of horror above?

Fallout definitely has horror inside. Look at this: steam://openurl/https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/22370/ss_be899cfc4b2716f77d0a07737d519895ae0919f2.1920x1080.jpg?t=1634779495 .

Yeah i see this - ghuls.  But using this logic HL2 is horror game because of ravenholm . Fallout is just typical "post apo parody" of cold war usa society, usa militarism ( design of tanks for example) , trends , famouse people, culture. Yes have few horror elements but this is like hm... skeleton on trap in Indiana Jones movies.  Fallout is like nation z while for example metro is like walking dead. What's a diffrent - Fallout  universe factions as example - there is something like roman army, scientisitc like from ww2 comedy movie, USA governament , Raiders ( i don't complain about their desing in Fallout because it's parody) , while Metro factions - i don't will wrote about them here because some of them are... let say controversial so check the link : Factions | Metro Wiki | Fandom .

Btw. i remember even skeleton in suits so much inspired with one of Dr. who enemies but... honestly in Fallout are used more like joke. 

 

About DR1 and DR4 - we can't be sure what was point of devs but for most players - well DR1 was pretty  deppresing , gore with small additional of black humor while  DR4 unfuny parody.

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Sure, this is not an irrefutable fact. Its like modern statistics works. By looking at a subset you try to guess what the larger population thinks. And with hot topics like LBD or farming we have a lot more posts even though it is just 1% of players.

 

Now I'm sure there are more players who would want more horror somewhere. But that he is the lone fighter for his sense of horror in this forum is at least something to think about, lets say a "bad sign" 😁. Can it really be that a sizable percentage of players (say >20%) desperately wants more horror and only Matt115 is here demanding it?

 

 

Honestly @pApA^LeGBa can be  halve right. I mean - here are almost people who love 7dtd right? this same thing with cod - a lot of people defence Activision on their public media in comments - "if you don't like microtransations don't buying" but if you check how many people say this is wrong on diffrent media.... statistic will be looks diffrent. 

 

Okay lets say that in theory there is 10% of 7dtd owner want  more horror in 7dtd. But don't mean that they will write on forum about that. This psychological thing : people are afraid to have diffrent opinion that majority , people just don't have time -  well i don't like cod looks now my i don't write on cod forum etc because.... this is pointless now because this cannot be undone , some people will be just dissapointed and start to play in diffrent game. Some of them will check just mods - if they will like them maybe  they will install them if not... well there is more game.  And last thing : what people usually check on games forum? the most important topic - i think A21 dev diary is the most important now. So how big is chance that you will find someone like that? small. Well..... even i created my account two years ago ( social blockade) - so this is nothing strange that nobody except me demand this. And there is a lot of reasons about that.  

Why LBD or farming is such hot topic? because... most people care more about gameplay - i think mods topic are hot too. Btw LBD is hot topic now because.... it's started by news. I think if Madmole wrote something like " we thinking about return of behemots"  i think there would be 2-3 topics about that. So if Devs would start topic about horror elements in Dev 21 diary on during stream topic would be hot

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Well yes they can handle multiple things but : this would be  another argument of Sony against Microsoft takeover Activision. So Microsoft woudn't prevent Epic. Why risk loosing control over Activision to get deal with TFP?

 

The time frames don't work: The activision deal is being checked now and in much less than a year either accepted or denied. An Epic exclusivity deal of 7D2D 1 would be "hot" in about 2 years when 7D2d comes out. If Epic wants such an exclusivitiy deal it would not only have to pay TFP but also Microsoft to buy them out. Making it even more uneconomic to do such a deal.

 

By the way, Microsoft didn't buy TFP! They just bought rights to have it on xbox store and part of the game pass. like hundreds of other games. Why anyone would object to that you have to explain to me. This is not a takeover and not an exclusivity deal and therefore does not bring any arguments to the Activision takeover.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

I mean TFP' new game exclusivity. 7DTD is just reason why Epic could be interested to do deal with TFP about new game

 

You mean because they now noticed the game and company and didn't before? But Epic is constantly on the lookout for exclusivity deals, and has found new developers easily without them being on the Epic store. Many exclusivity deals are with newcomers because they need up-front money for their development, Epic does find them, why should they haven't noticed 7D2D?

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 

Yeah language barrier here. Some thing can be translated in diffrent way  

 

Well  this would be pointless from economical and PR point of view - well people used to "light tone" of this game. So there is no point to change setting into more "classic horror style". But most things in media conneted about 7dtd is not horror but RP, fun with friends and.... more realistic Mincraft.

 

Yeah i see this - ghuls.  But using this logic HL2 is horror game because of ravenholm

 

Not a pure horror game. But even HL 1 has horror elements and if Valve had wanted they could have labeled it an horror ego-shooter.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 Fallout is just typical "post apo parody" of cold war usa society, usa militarism ( design of tanks for example) , trends , famouse people, culture. Yes have few horror elements but this is like hm... skeleton on trap in Indiana Jones movies.  Fallout is like nation z while for example metro is like walking dead. What's a diffrent - Fallout  universe factions as example - there is something like roman army, scientisitc like from ww2 comedy movie, USA governament , Raiders ( i don't complain about their desing in Fallout because it's parody) , while Metro factions - i don't will wrote about them here because some of them are... let say controversial so check the link : Factions | Metro Wiki | Fandom .

Btw. i remember even skeleton in suits so much inspired with one of Dr. who enemies but... honestly in Fallout are used more like joke. 

 

In my view horror and comedy can mix. One of my favourite movie genres are horror comedies.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 

About DR1 and DR4 - we can't be sure what was point of devs but for most players - well DR1 was pretty  deppresing , gore with small additional of black humor while  DR4 unfuny parody.

 

Honestly @pApA^LeGBa can be  halve right. I mean - here are almost people who love 7dtd right? this same thing with cod - a lot of people defence Activision on their public media in comments - "if you don't like microtransations don't buying" but if you check how many people say this is wrong on diffrent media.... statistic will be looks diffrent. 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

 

Okay lets say that in theory there is 10% of 7dtd owner want  more horror in 7dtd. But don't mean that they will write on forum about that. This psychological thing : people are afraid to have diffrent opinion that majority , people just don't have time -  well i don't like cod looks now my i don't write on cod forum etc because.... this is pointless now because this cannot be undone , some people will be just dissapointed and start to play in diffrent game. Some of them will check just mods - if they will like them maybe  they will install them if not... well there is more game.  And last thing : what people usually check on games forum? the most important topic - i think A21 dev diary is the most important now. So how big is chance that you will find someone like that? small. Well..... even i created my account two years ago ( social blockade) - so this is nothing strange that nobody except me demand this. And there is a lot of reasons about that.  

Why LBD or farming is such hot topic? because... most people care more about gameplay - i think mods topic are hot too. Btw LBD is hot topic now because.... it's started by news. I think if Madmole wrote something like " we thinking about return of behemots"  i think there would be 2-3 topics about that. So if Devs would start topic about horror elements in Dev 21 diary on during stream topic would be hot

 

But LBD is a topic that is always hot, without devs mentioning it. People talk about it continually since A17. Other topics like water physics get a new post regularily without any dev making a topic out of it. Fishing gets a pimp dream post regularily, the old weapon system with quality 1-600 as well, and so do many many other ideas. More skeletons and horror? Nada, nothing.

 

Now this doesn't mean that the 10% you posted is impossible. But we can at least say that LBD,water,fishing,behemoth and other topics are probably much more popular with players.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[youcantgetridofme]

On 8/12/2022 at 5:22 PM, Matt115 said:

"extremist bias patterns on the pro game and company moderator and community side of thing" - there is no such a thing

If you say so.

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

Either make a complaint to a moderator with all the evidence you can find. But don't discuss it here.

It was tried. It was ignored. They do not discuss. Simple as that. Their way or the highway.

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

They got a lot of counter-arguments but so did anyone who posted positive things.   

 

It's all fine and dandy until you just so happen to trigger their opposite opinion biases a slight bit beyond those other people. Some people have natural bias toward others more so than others too. Something to consider, but perhaps it's being dismissed?

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

But as a moderator I am pretty sure that you are wrong about moderation here being biased.

We shall see. It's early days still and I expect the same treatment over here as over on Steam. I'm more than certain the same thing is going to happen here as did there, but as I said, it's early days. I'll say the wrong thing someday that goes against a bias and I will be removed. Patterns. Remember?

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

Nonsene. There are clear rules in this forum and anyone who was banned here was not an innocent lamb and it didn't matter if he praised or critizised TFP.

 

Exactly. It's considered nonsense. The rules go one way generally and they typically favour the praise or people with power. People get lumped into the same pot of stew regardless right or wrong. What if he was a she? How would their treatment be then? I have witnessed girls being treated differently than guys. What about that situation?

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

Then learn how not to fall for psychologicla manipulation on the internet. That is fairly easy and can be summed up in 3 words: "Don't get provoked".

Think twice to answer to a provocation. Think twice whether the other is really trying to provoke you.

Funny how there is a different set of guidelines for certain types of people or their comments. You say we should ignore these baits, trolls, etc. that attempt to create situations, but at the same time, those people are allowed to continue doing it without repercussions, but the moment someone says something to oppose or call them out, they are the ones who get punished? Seems reasonable. /s

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

That is why I proposed the ignore list to you as well as to some others. If you have a problem with some posters, put them on the ignore list. Much easier to not respond to an ignored person.

Actually I've done this in past. I didn't respond to those people, but they were allowed to continue going on and on about me or my comments trashing them or trying to publicly shame myself, others or our comments. I appreciate your proposal to try and create a solution, but the sad fact is I and many others have tried your proposal, but it simply doesn't work because these mods don't care about anything other than what they want to care about. Others are allowed to continue to step out of line without consequence. Bias.

 

On 8/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Roland said:

And I wrote a response to this "trend" that you have not seemed to have observed. I asked some pointed questions asking for evidence of this alleged trend. Can you provide it?

If things were being done right in the first place, I wouldn't be here commenting and agreeing with Reach Gaming about these kinds of bad patterns that consistently repeat themselves.

If you wrote it somewhere else, I haven't had a chance to read it. Life can get busy and I sometimes may miss things. I don't really need to prove much of anything. The proof is right in front all our faces to see. Go to Steam. Look over the discussion board history. If you're looking closely enough and have an open mind about this subject, you very well may notice patterns. If not then well, there's not much else I can do. It can all be browsed and looked over on your own. I'm not here to spoon feed. I said where it all can be found before. I'm not metaphorically digging through the trash so you don't have to do any work on your own.

On 8/13/2022 at 1:39 PM, Roland said:

1/2.3k

 

the dream is real

This pretty much proves the point in itself. It's all a big joke to them.

On 8/13/2022 at 5:49 AM, meganoth said:

[deleted. Please do not discuss moderation here]

 

On 8/14/2022 at 5:06 AM, meganoth said:

While we are talking about seemingly unfair moderator decisions like banning users on steam:

...proceeds to talk about moderation. Oh the irony of double standards.

 

The double standard pattern is also another very real pattern.

 

Reach Gaming could have pointed that out too, but if he pointed out every pattern and  included in his video, it would probably be about a four hour long video.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by youcantgetridofme (see edit history)

[Urban Blackbear]

8 minutes ago, youcantgetridofme said:

If you say so.

It was tried. It was ignored. They do not discuss. Simple as that. Their way or the highway.

It's all fine and dandy until you just so happen to trigger their opposite opinion biases a slight bit beyond those other people. Some people have natural bias toward others more so than others too. Something to consider, but perhaps it's being dismissed?

We shall see. It's early days still and I expect the same treatment over here as over on Steam. I'm more than certain the same thing is going to happen here as did there, but as I said, it's early days. I'll say the wrong thing someday that goes against a bias and I will be removed. Patterns. Remember?

Exactly. It's considered nonsense. The rules go one way generally and they typically favour the praise or people with power. People get lumped into the same pot of stew regardless right or wrong. What if he was a she? How would their treatment be then? I have witnessed girls being treated differently than guys. What about that situation?

Funny how there is a different set of guidelines for certain types of people or their comments. You say we should ignore these baits, trolls, etc. that attempt to create situations, but at the same time, those people are allowed to continue doing it without repercussions, but the moment someone says something to oppose or call them out, they are the ones who get punished? Seems reasonable. /s

Actually I've done this in past. I didn't respond to those people, but they were allowed to continue going on and on about me or my comments trashing them or trying to publicly shame myself, others or our comments. I appreciate your proposal to try and create a solution, but the sad fact is I and many others have tried your proposal, but it simply doesn't work because these mods don't care about anything other than what they want to care about. Others are allowed to continue to step out of line without consequence. Bias.

 

If things were being done right in the first place, I wouldn't be here commenting and agreeing with Reach Gaming about these kinds of bad patterns that consistently repeat themselves.

If you wrote it somewhere else, I haven't had a chance to read it. Life can get busy and I sometimes may miss things. I don't really need to prove much of anything. The proof is right in front all our faces to see. Go to Steam. Look over the discussion board history. If you're looking closely enough and have an open mind about this subject, you very well may notice patterns. If not then well, there's not much else I can do. It can all be browsed and looked over on your own. I'm not here to spoon feed. I said where it all can be found before. I'm not metaphorically digging through the trash so you don't have to do any work on your own.

This pretty much proves the point in itself. It's all a big joke to them.

 

...proceeds to talk about moderation. Oh the irony of double standards.

 

The double standard pattern is also another very real pattern.

 

Reach Gaming could have pointed that out too, but if he pointed out every pattern and  included in his video, it would probably be about a four hour long video.

 

 

Party A  breaking the rules they agreed to does not excuse Party B to do the same. Concern yourself with only yourself and you'll benefit more from it.

[Roland]

16 minutes ago, youcantgetridofme said:

If things were being done right in the first place, I wouldn't be here commenting and agreeing with Reach Gaming about these kinds of bad patterns that consistently repeat themselves.

If you wrote it somewhere else, I haven't had a chance to read it. Life can get busy and I sometimes may miss things. I don't really need to prove much of anything. The proof is right in front all our faces to see. Go to Steam. Look over the discussion board history. If you're looking closely enough and have an open mind about this subject, you very well may notice patterns. If not then well, there's not much else I can do. It can all be browsed and looked over on your own. I'm not here to spoon feed. I said where it all can be found before. I'm not metaphorically digging through the trash so you don't have to do any work on your own.

 

Ummm.... I rewrote/summarized my response in the same post that you quoted me. You didn't need to go digging back in the thread or miss anything. You claimed that the trend was to dumb down the game for console and I refuted that point and asked questions of you to hear your thoughts. 

 

It had nothing to do with your experience on Steam or past run-ins with forum moderators. I don't need to go to steam and browse anything. You posted here that in your opinion the developers are trending towards dumbing down the game for consoles and I challenged that idea and would like you to provide the evidence that drives your opinion.

 

Lets drop the stories of what happened on another forum and stick to the topic.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

The time frames don't work: The activision deal is being checked now and in much less than a year either accepted or denied. An Epic exclusivity deal of 7D2D 1 would be "hot" in about 2 years when 7D2d comes out. If Epic wants such an exclusivitiy deal it would not only have to pay TFP but also Microsoft to buy them out. Making it even more uneconomic to do such a deal.

 

By the way, Microsoft didn't buy TFP! They just bought rights to have it on xbox store and part of the game pass. like hundreds of other games. Why anyone would object to that you have to explain to me. This is not a takeover and not an exclusivity deal and therefore does not bring any arguments to the Activision takeover.

 

I know that MC didn't buy TFP. But  game pass was a argument of sony ( btw this everything was sounds so strange - i mean coments of both Sony and Activisions) 

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

In my view horror and comedy can mix. One of my favourite movie genres are horror comedies.

 

Did you watched "Zombie SS" ? i love this movie

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Not a pure horror game. But even HL 1 has horror elements and if Valve had wanted they could have labeled it an horror ego-shooter.

 

 

While 7dtd was looking like pure horror game while now 7dtd is  survival tower defence sandbox with horror elements. HL1 is typical SCI-FI shooter ( like serious sam - here it's mean it's not scary but enemies are not humans)

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

But LBD is a topic that is always hot, without devs mentioning it. People talk about it continually since A17. Other topics like water physics get a new post regularily without any dev making a topic out of it. Fishing gets a pimp dream post regularily, the old weapon system with quality 1-600 as well, and so do many many other ideas. More skeletons and horror? Nada, nothing.

 

Now this doesn't mean that the 10% you posted is impossible. But we can at least say that LBD,water,fishing,behemoth and other topics are probably much more popular with players.

 

 

Well that's true. Water or LBD is more popular topics. Well except behemoth - i think this topic is pretty dead.

 

[Maharin]

Now let's start talking about LBDSM...

[Matt115]

3 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

If you say so.

It was tried. It was ignored. They do not discuss. Simple as that. Their way or the highway.

It's all fine and dandy until you just so happen to trigger their opposite opinion biases a slight bit beyond those other people. Some people have natural bias toward others more so than others too. Something to consider, but perhaps it's being dismissed?

We shall see. It's early days still and I expect the same treatment over here as over on Steam. I'm more than certain the same thing is going to happen here as did there, but as I said, it's early days. I'll say the wrong thing someday that goes against a bias and I will be removed. Patterns. Remember?

Exactly. It's considered nonsense. The rules go one way generally and they typically favour the praise or people with power. People get lumped into the same pot of stew regardless right or wrong. What if he was a she? How would their treatment be then? I have witnessed girls being treated differently than guys. What about that situation?

Funny how there is a different set of guidelines for certain types of people or their comments. You say we should ignore these baits, trolls, etc. that attempt to create situations, but at the same time, those people are allowed to continue doing it without repercussions, but the moment someone says something to oppose or call them out, they are the ones who get punished? Seems reasonable. /s

Actually I've done this in past. I didn't respond to those people, but they were allowed to continue going on and on about me or my comments trashing them or trying to publicly shame myself, others or our comments. I appreciate your proposal to try and create a solution, but the sad fact is I and many others have tried your proposal, but it simply doesn't work because these mods don't care about anything other than what they want to care about. Others are allowed to continue to step out of line without consequence. Bias.

 

If things were being done right in the first place, I wouldn't be here commenting and agreeing with Reach Gaming about these kinds of bad patterns that consistently repeat themselves.

If you wrote it somewhere else, I haven't had a chance to read it. Life can get busy and I sometimes may miss things. I don't really need to prove much of anything. The proof is right in front all our faces to see. Go to Steam. Look over the discussion board history. If you're looking closely enough and have an open mind about this subject, you very well may notice patterns. If not then well, there's not much else I can do. It can all be browsed and looked over on your own. I'm not here to spoon feed. I said where it all can be found before. I'm not metaphorically digging through the trash so you don't have to do any work on your own.

This pretty much proves the point in itself. It's all a big joke to them.

 

...proceeds to talk about moderation. Oh the irony of double standards.

 

The double standard pattern is also another very real pattern.

 

Reach Gaming could have pointed that out too, but if he pointed out every pattern and  included in his video, it would probably be about a four hour long video.

 

I think "pattern" is your favourite word.  As you see - i and @meganoth have diffrent opinions about 7dtd' horror style - as you can see this is visual prove that you are wrong about that patterns. 

 

FORUM=/=STEAM=/=YT=/=TWITTER etc. 

 

"What if he was a she? How would their treatment be then? I have witnessed girls being treated differently than guys. What about that situation"  1. have you any proofs? quotes, screens etc?

 

"Go to Steam" - this the worst type of arguments like " check in internet" - if you present what's going on in diffrent place like - yt, article , diffrent topic - send screens or link

 

 

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Ummm.... I rewrote/summarized my response in the same post that you quoted me. You didn't need to go digging back in the thread or miss anything. You claimed that the trend was to dumb down the game for console and I refuted that point and asked questions of you to hear your thoughts. 

 

It had nothing to do with your experience on Steam or past run-ins with forum moderators. I don't need to go to steam and browse anything. You posted here that in your opinion the developers are trending towards dumbing down the game for consoles and I challenged that idea and would like you to provide the evidence that drives your opinion.

 

Lets drop the stories of what happened on another forum and stick to the topic.

I agree with you... 3/2.3k  well this topic is unique.

2 hours ago, Maharin said:

Now let's start talking about LBDSM...

What mean SM??? LEARING BY DOING SPACE MARINES????

Edited August 18, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Rotor]

I am tempted to repost an eloquent post..........but I might get banned :).

[BFT2020]

I always find there was a reason a person gets banned, even when they claim their wasn’t 

[SURVIVE]

Ha this topic blew up after I said my piece.

Roland out of care for your well being I found this for ya since you seem to think I'm restricted to points only.

Summary

a brief statement or account of the main points of something

Example: "a summary of Chapter Three"

 

honestly can't listen to you because you remind me if all the "MVP" players on the wow forums in the general section constantly defending the atrocious decisions the company was making. FYI nearly everyone would, following the guidelines, tell them to shove it where the sun dont shine. In fact I'm pretty sure that's why the guidelines were made, to protect their "Righteous defenders"

TFP doesn't need to make another "horror" game or even a world building game because lets be real, haven't we abused those two enough already? Hell if they can make a split screen skater game thats better then the garbage people make today I'm in. But don't fing ask us for feedback if you have no intention of adding the things the community wants anyway.

Peace and may the swarts be with you.

 

3 hours ago, Rotor said:

I am tempted to repost an eloquent post..........but I might get banned :).

Just cleverly work your way around the ToA. If they are insulted and you get banned, I can drive my my point further.