This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.

[meganoth]

8 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

Well Jost - you don't have to play to know if something will be good or not. Just even simple things like short describtion can give you a lot of information.

Warhammer 3 imortal empires is good example for that :

People know which factions will be hard/unplayable by just knowing their locations - don't even knowing stats. Why?  If there is vampire counts faction in places where there is a lot "anti-vampires" factions in small area you can expect that AI will rush this faction to get this province.

You can do this with a lot of games - like cod : just leaks and names of perks let cod MP guys to know if MP will be good or bad.

 

There is a world of intermediate steps between not knowing and knowing called suspecting, assuming, suspecting, conjecturing, presuming, hypothesizing. You are using the word "knowing" wrong because knowing is the end point of having a fact.

 

8 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Btw this is not about water system in 7DTD - how this will be working depends on crafting recept and loot pools.  I mean here how you can deduct information just using minimal information about something in game if you spend a lot of time playing in this game / series of games.

I respect so much guys who can good predictic which weapons will be OP in new cod just by seeing describtion and name of weapon. They are usually right about guns

Unfortunatly nothing about that. Parts making crafting so... weak vs. looting + candy + gogles --> you see good stuff? use candy get better staf that you could made because lack of parts

 

And you prove it yourself: "They are usually right about...". This clearly shows they do not know, they are good at conjecturing, assessing, guessing.

 

TFP internal testers at the moment have a lead in what they know, they still need conjecture when they say crafting will work better for most players or not. But their data basis for predicting is a lot more accurate than that of a random youtuber or you.

 

[meganoth]

38 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Good to know but on other hand - we don't know how many parts will need for crafing + this don't mean crafitng will be buffed why? 

For example :

A20 - 0,5 % for steel parts chance

A21 - 0,125% on T1 , 0,2 on T2 etc so- this will be "true" but this make crafting useless

 

"you will notice more ... shotgun parts appearing in the world".

 

This is quite a clear statement of parts appearing more often, while nothing has been said about crafting being made harder. Naturally we have to guess about the end-result, but how idiotic would it be to make parts drop more often but then invalidate this change by making crafting more difficult again?

 

And your number example is directly contradicting the words in the announcement.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

People know which factions will be hard/unplayable by just knowing their locations - don't even knowing stats. Why?  If there is vampire counts faction in places where there is a lot "anti-vampires" factions in small area you can expect that AI will rush this faction to get this province.

You can do this with a lot of games - like cod : just leaks and names of perks let cod MP guys to know if MP will be good or bad.

To follow up on your example (even if I don't really know the game/context)... in the case of the water changes in A21, you don't even know if there are any anti-vampires factions AT ALL. Those who are testing A21 (QA and some devs) do.

[Matt115]

33 minutes ago, v3tro said:

 

But this is a balance issue, % and numbers can be tweaked easily. 

Well that's true

29 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

There is a world of intermediate steps between not knowing and knowing called suspecting, assuming, suspecting, conjecturing, presuming, hypothesizing. You are using the word "knowing" wrong because knowing is the end point of having a fact.

 

 

And you prove it yourself: "They are usually right about...". This clearly shows they do not know, they are good at conjecturing, assessing, guessing.

 

TFP internal testers at the moment have a lead in what they know, they still need conjecture when they say crafting will work better for most players or not. But their data basis for predicting is a lot more accurate than that of a random youtuber or you.

 

1. Well yes they are good at conjecturing - so can be 90% that they will be right about something. In COD case --> you have 4 stages - leaks , "first opinions" ,  open beta and full releaesed now. Leaks are usually correct - about guns perks - things about campain or zombie mod is diffrent because a lot of things are scrapped or removed because "Activision reasons" ( they do something terrible again and everybody know that X was mistake so they had to do anything to save a game or a lot of important devs decided to abadon ship). But MP is pretty stable. Then you have first opinions of  closed beta players like "this game is wow" "revolutionary " etc. but rest not invited important cod community member saying that invented people are not objective ( well some things are objective like visible overpower of some guns or eq, bad map design etc). Then show up open beta and tons of visible problems , then full released and usually change absolutly nothing since beta.  So in cod situation you can say they know because well - some things are constants - some perks are broken always, most maps will be terrible because they just "remaked" older bad maps etc.

 

In Warhammer situation can" know"  which factions will be good or not just looking on "short" describtion and your experience in warhammer - demons of nurgle is slow faction. And a lot of people were saying that faction will be terrible because 1. most "basic" ( non dlc except Ogres") factions have hard hiting fast artilery units + warhammer total war take some things from battletop warhammer fantasy so you can expect some units for some factions. 2. Just first look on buildings and army recruting show that nurgle faction will be "AFK" for long time and that's problem because you can get world event. From experience from older games from this series you can expect that AI will do nothing good so you will have to deal with yourself. And after released... they were right about that.

 

If internal tester are more accurate? Yes and no. Let take a breaker as example - idk if they were lucky but beaker were a big problem in one Alpha and i saw that a lot of people had this problem. So : 1. they were lucky enough to find them pretty fast 2. this wasn't so important for them.  Because increase chance to get beaker wasn't big deal- maybe this is just 1 hour of work.

 

So for internal testers - idk how many are they but for 10 people will be good but when group will be bigger problems will be more visible.

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

"you will notice more ... shotgun parts appearing in the world".

 

This is quite a clear statement of parts appearing more often, while nothing has been said about crafting being made harder. Naturally we have to guess about the end-result, but how idiotic would it be to make parts drop more often but then invalidate this change by making crafting more difficult again?

 

And your number example is directly contradicting the words in the announcement.

 

 

Not rly. this sounds like parts will be appearing more often after reading magasine that before reading magasines not more that in previous alpha.  So yes this can be true but in this same time can give this result. 

 

Example : A 20 - shotgun part have 0,1% chance to show up

A21 : 1 T- 0,01% - 5T - 1% ---> so there is visible bigger chance in this same alpha but not so big if you  compare with older alpha right?

 

 

 

[Matt115]

27 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

To follow up on your example (even if I don't really know the game/context)... in the case of the water changes in A21, you don't even know if there are any anti-vampires factions AT ALL. Those who are testing A21 (QA and some devs) do.

You mean water as "drinking" or water as " liquid on map"?

In first scenario : well - i don't remeber if they show recipte . But probably this will be pretty "basic" materials like plastic, glass , mechanical parts ---> grease monkey is usefull for making bike and cars too --> if i'm right a lot of people doing quests  so : go to trader do quest get coins buy drinks + usually Quests pois have "food stock"  or in treasure hunt you can get a lot of water etc. Quest restart POI's ---> you can very fast gain 3-4 dew collectors so maybe you will just "lose" max  1 day if you set day per 180 minutes. 

So yes there is  "anti-vampires factions" about water called : traders vending maschines and restart of POI's. Yes thing like diffrent reward or quest limits can be expected too but this don't change anything in longer period of time. For newer player who just bough 7dtd will change totaly nothing because they will don't know how this game was working in A20 but for veterans this will be nothing because they will know just looking on M and compass which PoI will be restarted or what can they expect in treasue crate

Edited August 27, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well that's true

1. Well yes they are good at conjecturing - so can be 90% that they will be right about something. In COD case --> you have 4 stages - leaks , "first opinions" ,  open beta and full releaesed now. Leaks are usually correct - about guns perks - things about campain or zombie mod is diffrent because a lot of things are scrapped or removed because "Activision reasons" ( they do something terrible again and everybody know that X was mistake so they had to do anything to save a game or a lot of important devs decided to abadon ship). But MP is pretty stable. Then you have first opinions of  closed beta players like "this game is wow" "revolutionary " etc. but rest not invited important cod community member saying that invented people are not objective ( well some things are objective like visible overpower of some guns or eq, bad map design etc). Then show up open beta and tons of visible problems , then full released and usually change absolutly nothing since beta.  So in cod situation you can say they know because well - some things are constants - some perks are broken always, most maps will be terrible because they just "remaked" older bad maps etc.

 

In Warhammer situation can" know"  which factions will be good or not just looking on "short" describtion and your experience in warhammer -

 

And again, this is not knowing, "knowing" or ""knowing"" and not even """knowing""". This is conjecture like you said in the first sentence. 

 

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

demons of nurgle is slow faction. And a lot of people were saying that faction will be terrible because 1. most "basic" ( non dlc except Ogres") factions have hard hiting fast artilery units + warhammer total war take some things from battletop warhammer fantasy so you can expect some units for some factions. 2. Just first look on buildings and army recruting show that nurgle faction will be "AFK" for long time and that's problem because you can get world event. From experience from older games from this series you can expect that AI will do nothing good so you will have to deal with yourself. And after released... they were right about that.

 

If internal tester are more accurate? Yes and no. Let take a breaker as example - idk if they were lucky but beaker were a big problem in one Alpha and i saw that a lot of people had this problem. So : 1. they were lucky enough to find them pretty fast 2. this wasn't so important for them.  Because increase chance to get beaker wasn't big deal- maybe this is just 1 hour of work.

 

Did you ever hear an internal tester say anything about availability of beakers? And was it wrong what he said?

 

Finding beakers was not a problem for a big majority of players in all alphas, but there always were the few unlucky guys who never found one. Which is exactly what probability calculus predicts. There is a good chance that TFP decided that the game working well for the big majority of players justified that always a few got the short straw. And did not change the drop chances. 

 

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

So for internal testers - idk how many are they but for 10 people will be good but when group will be bigger problems will be more visible.

 

TFP always said they put out alphas and experimentals to get feedback from a wider selection of audience than their internal testers.

It doesn't mean that their internal testers can't notice bigger changes. If for example they would say that they now craft twice as much as they did in A20, we can conjecture that a large portion of players will probably notice more opportunity for crafting, even if some playstyle will notice much less and maybe some other playstyles much more opportunities for crafting.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

 

 

Not rly. this sounds like parts will be appearing more often after reading magasine that before reading magasines not more that in previous alpha.  So yes this can be true but in this same time can give this result. 

 

"Perks now govern the probability of finding like-themed magazines and parts for those recipes"

 

I don't know what you have been reading but clearly you have not been reading or really understanding this sentence. **Perks govern the probability of something and parts".

 

There is no way to interpret that sentence so that the number of magasines you read governs your finding of parts.

 

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

Example : A 20 - shotgun part have 0,1% chance to show up

A21 : 1 T- 0,01% - 5T - 1% ---> so there is visible bigger chance in this same alpha but not so big if you  compare with older alpha right?

 

Sure, but why would they then say "Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world" when that sentence is directly contradicted by the numbers? Either that sentence they posted is generally true, then the numbers internally have to support that (and yours don't expect in very contrived circumstances) or that sentence is not true for the average case.

 

 

[Oliwhere]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

"you will notice more ... shotgun parts appearing in the world".

 

This is quite a clear statement of parts appearing more often, while nothing has been said about crafting being made harder. Naturally we have to guess about the end-result, but how idiotic would it be to make parts drop more often but then invalidate this change by making crafting more difficult again?

 

 

 

That's why I'm scratching my head about the water change: If water is made into a much more scarce resource this also means that player-crafted glue and duct tape will be a very limited resource. So if they wanted me to be able to craft my Q1-Q5 wooden bow myself I would have to have 25 jars of water to spare to make the glue and duct tape in that recipe.

So either water surival will not be such a big issue (since you have water to spare for crafting) or crafting will have to take a backseat again, since the immediate surival needs are the more pressing matter.

 

So increased drop rates for glue and duct tape or lowered amounts of these items in the crafting recipes could still be needed to make the magazine/crafting and water change work out.

[RipClaw]

9 minutes ago, Oliwhere said:

So increased drop rates for glue and duct tape or lowered amounts of these items in the crafting recipes could still be needed to make the magazine/crafting and water change work out.

Don't nail me down on this but I think I read that the drop rate of glue and tape will be increased. The only problem I have with the dew collectors is that they occupy an area of 3x3. If I put about 10 dew collectors in the front yard to craft about 100-150 glues a week, that occupies quite a bit of space.
 

I also hope they increase the stack size to 125 for clean water. Otherwise, I need a chest just for clean water.

 

[meganoth]

29 minutes ago, Oliwhere said:

 

That's why I'm scratching my head about the water change: If water is made into a much more scarce resource this also means that player-crafted glue and duct tape will be a very limited resource. So if they wanted me to be able to craft my Q1-Q5 wooden bow myself I would have to have 25 jars of water to spare to make the glue and duct tape in that recipe.

So either water surival will not be such a big issue (since you have water to spare for crafting) or crafting will have to take a backseat again, since the immediate surival needs are the more pressing matter.

 

So increased drop rates for glue and duct tape or lowered amounts of these items in the crafting recipes could still be needed to make the magazine/crafting and water change work out.

 

Quite right. For a true assessement of the changes we from the outside need also to know the motivation for any changes TFP does.

 

For example I think I know the motivation for the crafting changes from hearing the developers or Roland speak about the reasons and from my own evaluation and experiences with current crafting.

One of the mentioned reasons is that you have more opportunity to craft intermediate qualities of your weapons and armor. In view of this it makes no sense for TFP to make other changes or avoid changes that would prevent crafting to occur more often.

 

I also know the motivation for the water changes: They want water to be more survivaly. But I have not heard from them that they think there is too much glue in the world. It follows that they probably want to make your live harder concerning drinking, but not concerning producing glue or anything else that depends or is influenced by water.

 

It is quite possible, even likely, that somewhere they forgot to adjust some detail or that their adjustment is not enough and it will need further balance changes. But it is unlikely that they completely overlooked the impact the water change has on glue or that they did nothing about it.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

TFP internal testers at the moment have a lead in what they know, they still need conjecture when they say crafting will work better for most players or not. But their data basis for predicting is a lot more accurate than that of a random youtuber or you.

I always wonder if these internal testers are playing with their own play style or if they are simulating some sort of average player.
After all, when you look at the progress it makes a difference if you loot 7 days a week or maybe only 4 days a week.

Edited August 27, 2022 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

And again, this is not knowing, "knowing" or ""knowing"" and not even """knowing""". This is conjecture like you said in the first sentence. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

Did you ever hear an internal tester say anything about availability of beakers? And was it wrong what he said?

 

Finding beakers was not a problem for a big majority of players in all alphas, but there always were the few unlucky guys who never found one. Which is exactly what probability calculus predicts. There is a good chance that TFP decided that the game working well for the big majority of players justified that always a few got the short straw. And did not change the drop chances. 

TFP always said they put out alphas and experimentals to get feedback from a wider selection of audience than their internal testers.

It doesn't mean that their internal testers can't notice bigger changes. If for example they would say that they now craft twice as much as they did in A20, we can conjecture that a large portion of players will probably notice more opportunity for crafting, even if some playstyle will notice much less and maybe some other playstyles much more opportunities for crafting.

 

Well change because well it was increased in another alpha. But 1 alpha was unfun because that.

 

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

There is no way to interpret that sentence so that the number of magasines you read governs your finding of parts.

 

Sure, but why would they then say "Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world" when that sentence is directly contradicted by the numbers? Either that sentence they posted is generally true, then the numbers internally have to support that (and yours don't expect in very contrived circumstances) or that sentence is not true for the average case.

 

 

 

About this number - i give example how this words can be true and in this same change nothing.

I think they will do something like time just because = let say you could find 2 parts per 2 hours in A20 so i don't think they will do something to reduce time to 2 parts per 1 hour. Well they added steel tools parts just to increase time neccesary to make this tools. So i don't believe that now they want reduce time neccesary to find stuff because they could just removed steel tool parts. 

[meganoth]

27 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

 

Well change because well it was increased in another alpha. But 1 alpha was unfun because that.

 

 

About this number - i give example how this words can be true and in this same change nothing.

 

No. Because they didn't say anything about any probabilities increasing, they did not talk about details, they informed us about the RESULT of their changes: More parts dropping for people. There is no way those words can be made true with your specific numbers.

 

27 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

I think they will do something like time just because = let say you could find 2 parts per 2 hours in A20 so i don't think they will do something to reduce time to 2 parts per 1 hour. Well they added steel tools parts just to increase time neccesary to make this tools. So i don't believe that now they want reduce time neccesary to find stuff because they could just removed steel tool parts. 

 

It is quite simple: Before magazines the parts and the random drop of the schematic was the way to gate crafting a high-tier weapon. And that didn't work well.

 

Now magazines achieve gating in a much smoother way because magazines drop more often which makes outliers (too early or too late abilitiy to craft a weapon) much less likely.

 

But the important thing in this: The task of gating has been taken over by magazines, which previously was the combined task of schematic and parts. Consequently parts could be removed, or they could just be rebalanced to drop more often.

 

It depends on whether TFP still wants some limit on crafting guns or not. For example to avoid guns being an easy way to generate money. Or avoid guns being produced in masses just to get the best random values for the guns.

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I always wonder if these internal testers are playing with their own play style or if they are simulating some sort of average player.
After all, when you look at the progress it makes a difference if you loot 7 days a week or maybe only 4 days a week.

 

I would guess they mostly do unit tests, i.e. test a specific feature in artificial test setups without any continuous play. Apart from that I heard hints about them being able to play the game normally too, but whether that is an official task in itself or just happens when it suits whatever they have to test is unclear.

 

 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

 

 

It is quite simple: Before magazines the parts and the random drop of the schematic was the way to gate crafting a high-tier weapon. And that didn't work well.

 

Now magazines achieve gating in a much smoother way because magazines drop more often which makes outliers (too early or too late abilitiy to craft a weapon) much less likely.

 

But the important thing in this: The task of gating has been taken over by magazines, which previously was the combined task of schematic and parts. Consequently parts could be removed, or they could just be rebalanced to drop more often.

 

It depends on whether TFP still wants some limit on crafting guns or not. For example to avoid guns being an easy way to generate money. Or avoid guns being produced in masses just to get the best random values for the guns.

 

Usually i manage to buy/loot weapon/tool before i manage to get enough parts. So high tier schematic wasnt's problems because... without parts it was totaly useless. And usually - i lack 1 part but before i manage to find this part i manage to find or buy complete gun/tool

[Ray Garraty]

 

[Matt115]

19 minutes ago, Ray Garraty said:

 

 

Well he have right about boats but rest? No. 

NPC to hire are not neccesary. This is not State of Decye - if i wanted to worry about NPC i would play in diffrent game.

 

But the most funny thing - this guys want new traps - well this good idea but... then he show game looking like made by using free zombie models.. Trenbuches,  spike walls like from orc must die don't into "quasi-realistic" artstyle. If he suggested - razor barbed wire, minimum metal mines. "pen" mines. fire mines,  rebar spikes etc.

[RipClaw]

10 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

But the most funny thing - this guys want new traps - well this good idea but... then he show game looking like made by using free zombie models.. Trenbuches,  spike walls like from orc must die don't into "quasi-realistic" artstyle. If he suggested - razor barbed wire, minimum metal mines. "pen" mines. fire mines,  rebar spikes etc.

The game he uses as an example is called "Night of the Dead". There are numerous videos on Youtube and streams on Twitch if you want to take a closer look.

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Matt115]

4 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

The game he uses as an example is called "Night of the Dead". There are numerous videos on Youtube and streams on Twitch if you want to take a closer look.

 

Yes i checked this game. then i saw this:

 

 

Every model diffrent style and this game looks like Nexus zombie with better graphic.

So if wanted give example about traps - this traps should suit to game too. Traps on his video could be in medieval game for sure- this spike wall or rolling spike. But in modern quasi realistic game? nope. 

 

So - don't tread 7DTD like cod vanguard when there put everything and now looks like asian F2P PVP FPS

[Roland]

16 hours ago, ktr said:

Still doesn't mean I think that my sudden inability to boil water but can drink it through a magical filter is a good choice.

Just to clarify…

 

You can and will still need to boil water. You will find murky water and if you have a pot you will want to boil it into good water. You can also drink directly from streams and lakes without a filter so streams and lakes are not worthless. The dew collectors are great. I know that’s just my opinion but I’ve started over a few times now and they haven’t lost their charm nor will they as far as I can tell. Just like developing any farm that generates stuff for you, a dew collectors farm just feels good to create. 
 

I’m first to admit that at first it felt strange to not be able to gather water from a source into containers and bring it all back to the base to boil. But…I can also state that with no jars in the game you soon forget about it and accept it as the reality of the game. I know I can drink straight from a stream and that I can’t gather it. I don’t think about it any more. 
 

The loot tables have been adjusted quite a bit. I am much more often than not crafting things well before I can find a better version. That includes weapons and tools that require loot-only parts. 
 

I just did a 50% loot test run to see how it affected things and it is super tough. 
 

My next test run will be with xp point jacked up so I can progress faster and get to the point that purple gear starts showing up to see if they are invalidating crafting like many feel they do. 
 

The changes are quite simply a lot of fun. Whether they needed to be done or not is a matter of opinion but Inreally enjoy the magazines for professing crafting and the skill points for progressing perks and the water farming game is great. 
 

It’s The Fun Pimps. They just pimped the game with some more fun. 
 

23 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Roland, you don't get it and you likely never will.

Thank you for your feedback. Here at TFP, we appreciate your point of view and hope that you will experience a high level of entertainment value with our products. Have a nice day. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[theFlu]

Moisture farms... why do I feel a sudden urge to go get me some power converters..?

[Matt115]

40 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

The changes are quite simply a lot of fun. Whether they needed to be done or not is a matter of opinion but Inreally enjoy the magazines for professing crafting and the skill points for progressing perks and the water farming game is great. 
 

It’s The Fun Pimps. They just pimped the game with some more fun. 

Pfff - they would to pimpe the game with some fun if they allow players to capture zombie , pimpe fuel inside him and start a fire while watching how this zombie burn from inside buahahahahahahah EVIL MASTER MIND!  😈

 

Well this would be pretty edgy even for me

 

40 minutes ago, Roland said:

Thank you for your feedback. Here at TFP, we appreciate your point of view and hope that you will experience a high level of entertainment value with our products. Have a nice day. 

XD i'm just dead. this is so good. 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Ray Garraty]

10 hours ago, Matt115 said:

this guys want new traps - well this good idea

Of course it is!

For the past 5 years we haven't seen any new wired electric traps from TFP at all, which is absolutely unacceptable in terms of  the Tower Defence genre game.

I agree we don't need medieval trebuchets and ballistae, but automatic grenade turrets or flamethrowers would be nice

Edited August 28, 2022 by Ray Garraty (see edit history)

[v3tro]

15 hours ago, Oliwhere said:

 

So if they wanted me to be able to craft my Q1-Q5 wooden bow myself I would have to have 25 jars of water to spare to make the glue and duct tape in that recipe.

So either water surival will not be such a big issue (since you have water to spare for crafting) or crafting will have to take a backseat again, since the immediate surival needs are the more pressing matter.

 

So increased drop rates for glue and duct tape or lowered amounts of these items in the crafting recipes could still be needed to make the magazine/crafting and water change work out.

 

If I remember correctly, glue crafting recipe will be the same but instead of murky water you will need to use boiled water or just "water" as it is.

Crafting glue is not the only way to get it, you can loot it or buy from traders. 

 

13 hours ago, Matt115 said:

About this number - i give example how this words can be true and in this same change nothing.

I think they will do something like time just because = let say you could find 2 parts per 2 hours in A20 so i don't think they will do something to reduce time to 2 parts per 1 hour. Well they added steel tools parts just to increase time neccesary to make this tools. So i don't believe that now they want reduce time neccesary to find stuff because they could just removed steel tool parts. 

 

I am not understanding why you are making your decision assuming TFP do not know what they are doing... or do you want it to be "bad" ? Not sure, can`t seem to grasp your point of view.

All your given numbers seem artificially made so you can show your point of view and in your given situations - yes, you are correct. But the problem is that you have no idea if your numbers are even remotely precise. That increased number could be 5% per perk instead of your 0.1%.. 

 

Not sure how you got 2 parts per hour. Sometimes I can get 15parts in 1hour while other times cant get 1 part in 10hours. RNG luck based, and if you go and loot specific gun containers you increase your chances of finding gun parts etc. 

5 minutes ago, Ray Garraty said:

For the past 5 years we haven't seen any new wired electric traps from TFP at all, which is absolutely unacceptable in terms of  the Tower Defence genre game.

I agree we don't need medieval trebuchets and ballistae, but automatic grenade turrets or flamethrowers would be nice

 

Would LOVE to have more electricity stuff, logic gates etc. Just some basics like when minecraft introduced redstone. Nothing crazy, but devs have stated multiple times that it is not their goal and will not happen. From electricity I can see some new lights and hopefully flamethrower if it comes to that. 

[meganoth]

20 hours ago, meganoth said:

Sure, but why would they then say "Perk into shotguns and you will notice more shotgun magazines and shotgun parts appearing in the world" when that sentence is directly contradicted by the numbers? Either that sentence they posted is generally true, then the numbers internally have to support that (and yours don't expect in very contrived circumstances) or that sentence is not true for the average case.

 

 

 

@Matt115:

I noticed just now that I have made a wrong conclusion in this argument. I was interpreting that message to mean "more shotgun parts appearing than in the previous alpha", but actually and more likely it could just mean "more shotgun parts appearing after perking into shotguns", without any reference to A20.

 

So, we don't have any direct indication whether parts can be found more often than in A20. The only argument about that is indirect now: That it would be neccessary for TFP to do it because their objective was to give more opportunities for the player to craft intermediate qualitiy steps of weapons and armors.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

@meganoth

I think you got it right the first time... what they're saying is that IF you perk into shotguns, you WILL find more shotgun parts for your shotgun crafting.

That is alongside the magazine increase on top of the normal loot tables. I don't think there's any leeway to a different interpretation there.