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This is the kind of point of view that makes me go facepalm about some reviewers.


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8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Vent
verb. /vent/ vent your anger/frustration, etc. to do or say something to show your anger or another strong, bad feeling.

 

So as you can see, venting frustration can be done civilly while still being polite and respectful is possible. Exactly what Reach Gaming did. 

 

 

Ok. But even if you can politely vent frustration, that is a fine line and in my experience as a mod an angered discussion often turns into a flamewar. Getting emotional is a recipe for losing control over your own words. Banning happens after people cross the line into impolite and it doesn't matter much what happened before or who started it.

And being baited can not work as an excuse, because then everybody could violate forum rules and nobody ever could be banned for it.

 

8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

To understand it all you would have had to have been on Steam watching what the PR guys were doing. A few on this forum hang out on the Steam discussion board. They were involved in baiting and indirect subtle trolling as a group. It was OK for the PR guys to go along with it and troll me, but it wasn't OK for me to return the favour in a respectful way. Instead they straight up knee jerked and because I wasn't praising the game and hailing to TFP, I was bias ejected from the community. Ejected because I did not highly praise the game and because I had negative constructive criticism. They lumped my comments as being 'trolling' and 'baiting' and they banned me for doing what they were doing long before I started playing with the same cards they were playing with. It was all a process that lapsed over the course of several months.

 

Ok, but I'm hearing only one side here. If you have ever read both sides of a heated dispute you would know that usually both sides have an entirely different view who started it and how that dispute went along. And it is always the other side that started the dispute. But in reality it is a slow deterioration where all are at fault for continually increasing the heat.

The sensible thing is to simply stop when you see things get emotional. But that is very hard to do, everyone wants the last word and correct all the wrong things the other side said. I know that too well myself.

 

8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

Being banned for having opinions about the company and / or game

 

While moderators in reality can never be completely unbiased, there is usually more than one and everyone comments on the decisions of others. A moderator doing above would likely not be moderator for long, unless all work together to misuse the system

 

If you were banned read the message for which you were banned again. Posters don't get banned for whatever is in a month long series of exchanges, they are always banned for the last message or messages that went too far.

 

8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

- that somebody will grudge me over my opinions and work with others (which happened on Steam) to sway an unjust ban simply because they didn't like what I had to say. The PR guys were going along with it too, allowing these other people to group report me repeatedly, to encourage a ban. They even said they had been discussing it for a while. I knew it was coming eventually  because they simply don't like my feedback. One even admitted openly to having a bias for the game and TFP. Because of that bias and disagreement with my comments plus staged reports, I was unjustly banned.

 

Again, I can't judge what is true from only hearing one side of the story. Read the post or posts for which you were banned. If you can honestly say to yourself there is no flaming, no direct attack at other persons in there or any other rules violation, then yes, you were unjustly framed. If not it doesn't matter if someone was coercing you or that some people group reported you.

 

8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

See above. Their PR / moderators could pass notes along to the devs, but when some of them have a strong bias, there is an extremely high probability those comments will be dismissed and disregarded.

 

We are community moderators here and on steam, not employees. I never ever pass notes to devs. I have no special line to them. As a moderator I moderate, full stop. And as a normal forum user I have exactly the same ways to talk to a dev, by posting in the dev diary or start a thread anywhere in the forum.

Roland is special. He actually can bring up information to them, but AFAIK he will do that only in exceptional circumstances.

 

To my knowledge there are no PR guys employed by TFP at all.

 

8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

He could have posted here, but sometimes more can be said with words and voice inflection to get a point across better. Some people don't like to type and prefer talking through a video. Lots of things to consider. YouTube is a big platform and a great place to put out a message you want heard or seen, to see what others think on the subject. TFPs forum has a very tiny population contrasted to that of YouTube.

 

Youtube is almost always a one-way street, some influencer posting his opinion, mostly unchallenged. That is what I generally don't like about youtube as a source of information. In a forum a reader sees all sides of an argument and all facts.

This is not a comment on Reach though, just generally on Youtube.

 

8 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

Granted, some people do this, but not all do. It's become more of a thing to stereotype content creators because they have the option to monetise videos to earn a living.

 

 Well, that comment should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because someone chooses to use a different platform to express themselves doesn't make it any different than expressing our views here. Some people prefer to make videos and some people prefer to type. Either platform is a way to express ourselves and should be treated equally without bias.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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On 8/2/2022 at 3:58 AM, Roland said:

 They are finishing up this game and have started preliminary work on two new games as well as on bringing the full version of this game to consoles with cross platform compatibility to PC servers.

 

confirmation that the game has consistantly been dumbed down over the last 5 or 6 alphas to shoehorn the game into underpowered consoles. 

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On 8/5/2022 at 12:49 PM, meganoth said:

 

It is actually very true that forums tend to collect people with a positive opinion about the developers game. I for example wouldn't be here for such a long time and would not have taken the job as moderator if I wasn't largely pleased with the general direction of the game.

 

It follows that someone gets more dissenting posts when he posts critical stuff than if he were praising something.

 

You say somewhere "But even if you are polite...".  "EVEN IF". You do realize that it should idealy be "ONLY IF". Some people are used to or think it is necessary to be rude to get heard (partly that is a cultural thing). Whether that is true or not they should not be surprised to get likewise replies back in an otherwise friendly forum. And this should not be the place to vent frustration either.

 

 

Frustation is not always being rude.  frustration =/= rude. You can be frustrated and in this same time trying to be gentle. 

 

14 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Oh yeah. So, if we should not vent frustrations with the game here on the forum, then where do you suggest people do that? Is a forum not meant for open discussion on all subjects and matters (venting frustrations included) surrounding the game and TFP? People can vent and still have a civil discussion, but I appears that isn't welcome here on this forum.

 

Sal is right and it shows in your last comment. It's also why a lot of people don't bother commenting on the forum or Steam message board for that matter. TFP is really only getting opinions and views from one side of the fence. As you said yourself, this isn't the place to vent frustrations. Those people who want to comment on subjects know exactly what will happen if they voice their discontent and so do you. It's also why some content creators are going through YouTube instead, to voice their opinion.

Reach Gaming is right. Nobody seems to want to talk about it and it's sad. I've tried many times over on Steam, but it was met with a lot of arrogance, ignorance and well, straight up disrespect and it was allowed by the you know who's. The you know who's even at some points assisted others' trolling comments to get reactions and create a situation which eventually results in a you know what.

Sal and Reach Gaming are right. Some people may disagree and that's OK It's OK to agree to disagree. I have lots I'd like to say about the company and game, but alas I keep silent and don't say much because even if it is respectful and polite venting it'll go ignored or be dismissed.

In your own words, "... this should not be the place to vent frustration ..."

@Sal and Reach Gaming spoke the truth.
 

Steam is not this same as 7DTD forum. 7DTD is more.... "effective" administrated. Steam is just wall where people write everything and city service don't have enough time to clean.  

Reach gaming is right about making over and over.

 

13 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Youtubers can be great supporters for games, however their opinions must always be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Especially those who have controversial opinions and/or thumbnails on their videos.

 

They benefit greatly from more views/subs so even more so...

 

If he truly wanted a discussion he could of posted here but chose to have a one sided narrative instead.

Well : sometimes the best option is use the most "popular" option - i think some people don't read this forum but watch a lot of youtubers right? 

Being controvesial is... even controversial. For most cod youtubers ASBM is bad and not controversial ( i mean most most proplayers and content creators agree about that) but controversial in devs eyes. 

Some of them have specific way of talking etc. but well this is not because they have to do this in interesting way :

for example let's take topic of zombie children in 7dtd and two ways of making video about that :

1. construtive - night of living dead as first zombie game , using zombie kids as "ethical trap" in some movies etc. long true and... for most people boring so small number of  views so chances that people like devs/moders etc. will saw this video is law

2. emotional - flamming, using rude words etc - short, a lot of views and comments so bigger chance that someone "important" will watch it.

This is just socialtechnics how to influence on people

 

13 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Matt115 is mostly a critic of the overall direction of the game and wants a darker 7D2D. Do people aggressively shout him down? Are his posts deleted?

Sal posts overwhelmingly negative comments. Is he shouted down? Are his posts deleted?

Is he getting counter-arguments or dislikes? Yes, that can happen.

 

So what do you fear exactly? Getting counter-argument posts? Isn't that what an open discussion is about? 

 

Or is it the dislikes? I'm no fan of the dislikes, but they are of no consequence and I can't prevent people using them. Use them yourself. Or make an argument that dislikes should be removed from the forum, I'll happily support you in that.

 

 

Well i agree about that well so meganoth is right about that

 

Well I think he is frustrated about .... lack of post/  only dislikes.  Because this is so frustating.  Spend sometime even few hours to find sources and.... don't get any replay or only few dislikes is sometimes deppresing. why? if someone comment you post at least you know they don't agree with you

 

11 hours ago, MichaelL. said:

Ummm...   Maybe everyone should consider taking a step back for a bit. 

 

While I've had a great time playing the game - and even more fun as a prefabber...   It's a game.  That's  it.  While there are times when I get laser focused on building prefabs - and it's something that I thoroughly enjoy - at the end of the day it's still just a game.  My life - and hopefully nobody's life (aside from the developers) - is not dependent on the outcome of this game.  I do what I do with this game because I find it challenging and engaging.   What I've ultimately gotten out of it as a player/prefabber/budding modder has been well worth whatever I'd paid for it.   But it's not the center of my existence.   I realize that many social media/youtubers have gone all-in and centered their livelihoods (quite successfully) specifically on this game.  in reality that is a short-lived endeavor.  Hopefully, they will realize that this is not a lifetime strategy and have made the necessary plans for continuing their successes for the future.  I enjoy Reach Gaming, but in the end, he - nor is anybody else in the gaming community - is the final arbitrator on the direction of this game.

 

Listen.  Games are not expected to keep a players undivided attention for their entire lifetime.  That's just silly.   Most games, you play them, you 'win' them, then you move on.  Occasionly you'll go back to them when you're 'currently ' bored.   In truth, if 7D2D had been released initially as a fully completed game, it would have been hot for a good while, then we'd either see 8D2D a few years later, or it would be a fond memory of game's past.  

 

Games come and go.  And even though there have been many years of development put into 7D2D, I think it's also safe to say we've all gotten many years of enjoyment out of it.   But ultimately it's TFP's call as to how they decide to proceed.   It's awesome that they've been extremely open to the public on the direction of the game.  It's pretty much unprecedented.   I haven't always agreed with the changes they've made, and there are quite a few things i would like to see added.  But ultimately,  at the end of the day, it's THEIR game, it's their business, and it's their call on the end product.   

 

Just my semi-drunken rant.....   🙃

Well - l4d2 community is very alive, Heroes 3 this same thing etc. Total war? a lot of people create content from older games like medieval total war 2.  But nothing new is added oficial to this game 

In this same time cod vanguard is still supported and is so... dead. A lot of createors complain that they don't have nothing to do about cod

 

9 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

I want to apologize for my blanket statement about youtubers.  I certainly have seen my fill of inflammatory youtube videos in the past about 7D2D and lumped in his video with the rest.  After re-watching his video, I can feel his genuine worry and concern about the changes in the upcoming Alpha...

 

I can empathize with how he feels given how many Alphas he has experienced and all of the changes that have gone back and forth.  It is my opinion that part of his frustration is due to the fact he has played and featured the game for so long, the current content has grown stale.  For example, he mentions his disappointment that additional content such as vehicles, etc. may never be added.  

 

All I can add to the topic is that the team is fully aware how long the game has been in development and is prioritizing finishing promised kickstarter features (e.g. bandits, story, etc.)  before entertaining additional features such as more vehicles and such.

 

For reference, Allan, posted this response to Reach's video which is currently pinned at the top of it.

 

 

 

Well honestly that's why i hope we will get DLC 😕 maybe i complain a lot but i love this game. Changes are not.... how to say this right...  hm... "additional" content. drinking water will be change but this like take from basket one apple and put another apple. This will be diffrent apple but number of apples will be this same.  So if instead : there would be added radiactive rivers or food spoling this will be like increase number of apples in basket 

 

5 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Great post! I completely agree with this take on all the "situation".

I'll use your post, sir, if you allow me, to segway into my own opinion...

 

I think there are a lot of people, in the on-line communities like Steam, 7D2D, YouTube and so on... that are subconsciously channeling their own life frustrations into this or that game, this or that fight. Many times I've been called a "fanboy" or "white knight", or even a "shill" on Steam, when I opposed the point of view of people who seem to fight changes to the game that they don't agree with, with the same conviction as if they were fighting for the survival of humankind or for the right to vote in their country.

 

Things have really gone bonkers in my opinion, and the explanation is that there are other problems, in the (real) life of most of those people, which they can't/won't address, so they come here (or on other games' forums) to bring on their "righteous" fight in a completely irrelevant context just to compensate for that.

 

What most people don't understand about me, is that when I agree with the devs, or praise the game, it's simply because I've been able to play almost all Alpha versions of this game without any major issues, I had a lot of fun in each of them, and I'm also not burning myself out on the game. I enjoy(ed) the game, I almost never exprience bugs and when I'm bored with vanilla, I can play one of the great mods, also that thanks to the commitment to modding that the devs themselves always have had.

 

In fact, I often play other games when I have time, and even change genre! Would you believe it? ;)

 

When I read people calling me a shill, TFP PR, white knight or fanboy, I just chuckle and sometimes I even feel sorry at how "mentally focused" they are to reach a point where they feel the need to hate someone they don't even know, on something so irrelevant as a game or an opinion on a game.

 

On the other side, when the devs are accused of being lazy, shady, unprofessional and so forth... I often find myself defending them, not because I owe them something or because I need their approval, but because my real life job is, in some ways, similar to theirs (I'm a freelance in a completely different field...) so I can kind of understand their difficulties, challenges, hurdles and in general how they work.

 

When some people, like I said before, become very polarized, they can only see shenanigans, plots against them by the devs and/or other people, and in general they create their own conspiracy theories to explain why their polarized point of view is not readily accepted by all. Then when they're criticized or even refuted with facts, they lash out and start name-calling.

 

 

One other aspect is also probably AGE. Culture has changed a lot depending on what generation you're from, so there's also some kind of cultural barrier between some  older gamers (like me) and the younger ones. We don't understand them, and they don't understand us, because we come from completely different places IMO. Of course, I think they're often entitled brats ;) and want everything served on a silver platter, but I also know this is my biased point of view! :ohwell:

 

I really don't care about the insults when I defend the game or the devs, since my life does not revolve around 7D2D (or gaming in general). On the other hand, I feel kind of sorry for these people who think I'm part of some conspiracy, because I think that they must have their own load of issues in real life. :ohwell:

 

The game will go in the direction the devs deem best, and people have to accept that. You may not like the direction where the game is going, but you can't treat development choices by the devs, like if it was a coupe d'etat removing democracy in your country. Chill down.

Well i think Jost this happens because people... are just something positive.  Some alpha ( i mean X.X) had some issues. I mean not bad because content etc. but bugs, strange changes that broke things - i remember that in one of smaller updates something was changed and i lose a lot of FPS so this game unplayable for me. Idk what was happening there.

 

"I've seen this too many times, that's how "internet and people" works." well is true because in IRL they just could start fighting etc. but they are safe while argue with people using internet right?

Well age and culture is big... thing too. Well for me zombie teenagers is nothing controversial - night of living dead have zombie girl, in one of the new zombie movie Soviet partisant is killed by zombie  because he had ethical issues about kiling zombie boy etc. but for me it's just fine - i read books and watch more brutal school reading in my primary schools - still i remember a school trip and some paitings in museum were like very hardcore horror movie ( like old italian horrors)

 

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Ok. But even if you can politely vent frustration, that is a fine line and in my experience as a mod an angered discussion often turns into a flamewar. Getting emotional is a recipe for losing control over your own words.

 

Well that's halve true - someworld can be for someone "normal" but for someone can be rude

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29 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well i think Jost this happens because people... are just something positive.

People insulting me and calling me a "shill" because I don't agree with them... well, I wouldn't define them "positive"! :lol:

 

4 hours ago, NukemDed said:

ummm why are we talking about our opinions on how others express their opinions?

It's not rocket science... we're just, you know... talking! :heh:

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)
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52 minutes ago, spud42 said:

confirmation that the game has consistantly been dumbed down over the last 5 or 6 alphas to shoehorn the game into underpowered consoles. 


I agree that Alphas 12 and 13 saw some simplification changes for the benefit of consoles which were mostly in the form of control schemes (everything got a radial menu) and the interface changes (List style crafting)

 

But you are going to have to give examples of changes in A17-A20 of your claim.  In A17 - A19 TFP thought console would be no more other than the currently existing game which woulld never again get an update and wasn’t the same as PC anyway so they wouldn’t have made any such changes. 
 

In A20 they started realizing they could do a console version for the new consoles which are not exactly underpowered. So, maybe there could have been some dumbing down as you claim. The server issues are definitely an example of console affecting PC play, but cross play isn’t exactly a “dumbing down” type of change 

 

So what are these recent dumbing down changes that have been made specifically to somehow cram this game into the underpowered PS5 or XBox Series? Typically, when they have to make concessions in the game it is so that it works with Unity….

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

People insulting me and calling me a "shill" because I don't agree with them... well, I wouldn't define them "positive"! :lol:

 

It's not rocket science... we're just, you know... talking! :heh:

my mistake i wanted to wrote : they just want to happened something positive. when there is soemthing bad over and over, thet just loose their temper because another bad thing but someone defends it. 😅

Well except guys who just have "20 comments" because they offten are just trolls

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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"9- Have zombies ever been ideas for the game? Like NEW zombie types? I think we're done with Zombies at this point."

 

Well i think still zombies are so underdevelopment.  that's bad news 😕

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On 8/6/2022 at 1:07 PM, meganoth said:

Ok. But even if you can politely vent frustration, that is a fine line

I never crossed any fine lines. [deleted] Others have done much worse on there and they have allowed it. There are a few here that are there, who get away with murder slamming all sorts of opinions on topics, but they don't get banned because they praise the game and company while doing it. Again, lots of bias around that board, by moderators.

 

On 8/6/2022 at 1:07 PM, meganoth said:

Ok, but I'm hearing only one side here.

I suggest visiting the discussion board on Steam then, to see for yourself what goes on.

 

On 8/6/2022 at 1:07 PM, meganoth said:

A moderator doing above would likely not be moderator for long

They've been at it for years so somebody above them must approve their bias and how they enforce bias decisions.

 

On 8/6/2022 at 1:07 PM, meganoth said:

Roland is special. He actually can bring up information to them, but AFAIK he will do that only in exceptional circumstances.

 

To my knowledge there are no PR guys employed by TFP at all.

Regardless whether you are all employed by them or not, fact is you all represent TFP. Even if it is volunteer PR, you are all a team of volunteers representing the forefront of the company's interactions with the community. What you all do reflects what the company likes, dislikes, allows and disallows. Bias is allowed, but fair expression of opinions and views are not if they conflict a volunteer's bias.

 

On 8/6/2022 at 4:23 PM, Matt115 said:

Steam is not this same as 7DTD forum. 7DTD is more.... "effective" administrated. Steam is just wall where people write everything and city service don't have enough time to clean.

that's literally how they treat their community on the steam discussion board.

 

On 8/6/2022 at 1:07 PM, meganoth said:

Youtube is almost always a one-way street, some influencer posting his opinion, mostly unchallenged. That is what I generally don't like about youtube as a source of information. In a forum a reader sees all sides of an argument and all facts.

I guess if nobody bothers to pay attention to the comments section at all, but in this particular case, it's not an informational video, but apparently being treated as such. The video wasn't about any source of information. It was Reach Gaming's opinion on what is going on with TFP and 7DTD. I mean, what are you doing here? Being influential in such a way that we should disregard his views on the topics he covered because you see YouTube as a one way street. It's not a one way street. Many people share comments and discussions in the comments just as they would on any forum or discussion board. The watcher and reader can see all side of the discussion.

 

This is not a good direction for TFP and it is in part, a problematic pattern. Reach Gaming talked about patterns. Well, there are many bad patterns being repeated time and again and moderator bias is one of those bad patterns that has been allowed to continue for years. Moderators are supposed to be above that putting fairness and equality primary before their personal biases. Playing Kick The Can with the community isn't respectful.

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On 8/6/2022 at 7:15 AM, spud42 said:

confirmation that the game has consistantly been dumbed down over the last 5 or 6 alphas to shoehorn the game into underpowered consoles. 

Observers notice some of the most interesting things sometimes. I too am an observer. Noticed this trend long ago too.

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1 hour ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

 

that's literally how they treat their community on the steam discussion board.

 

Steam is just "additonal" place - main "place" for devs and community is here. Here it's just typical forum right? pretty small number of members , more mods, more options ( steam have their own right) for devs etc. while steam is biger and hm.... anyone can write a comment - there is 120 milions of people on steam , 14 milions of copies - so here maybe is 15k of accounts? this is much lower number. Idk how steam works - i'm not admin but here they can give warning if someone do something wrong - but on steam   (i'm not 100% sure) admistration can only ban someone in some discusion to keep it "clean". 

So don't blame admins They doing their best. Rly. There was a lot of .... "naughty" users so i'm rly happy that's this forum is still in good conditions. I check some diffrent forums and most of them became just... "junkyard" while 7dtd's forum is clear

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1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Steam is just "additonal" place - main "place" for devs and community is here. Here it's just typical forum right? pretty small number of members , more mods, more options ( steam have their own right) for devs etc. while steam is biger and hm.... anyone can write a comment - there is 120 milions of people on steam , 14 milions of copies - so here maybe is 15k of accounts? this is much lower number. Idk how steam works - i'm not admin but here they can give warning if someone do something wrong - but on steam   (i'm not 100% sure) admistration can only ban someone in some discusion to keep it "clean". 

So don't blame admins They doing their best. Rly. There was a lot of .... "naughty" users so i'm rly happy that's this forum is still in good conditions. I check some diffrent forums and most of them became just... "junkyard" while 7dtd's forum is clear

The discussions going on, on Steam, are clean in most cases. It's no more clean or dirty over on Steam than it is here. TFP have two forum / discussion boards. One here and one on Steam. They are both platforms for discussions about this game and TFP. They have their volunteer PR team manage them both. To place relevance on one part of a community moreover another because they communicate in two different locations or both, is pretty inconsiderate. Long story short, what you're saying is the Steam member part of community who communicates over Steam is part of a junkyard. Wow. The 7DTD forum is no different than any other forum on the internet and it's no different than if people were to communicate on the Steam discussion board - at least it shouldn't be, but according to you, it is.

This is one of the patterns that is bad. TFP, PR crew and part of the community have allowed the bias to sway this way and some people even encourage it. It's just another bad pattern to be lumped in with all the other bad patterns Reach Gaming talked about.

Edited by youcantgetridofme (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

I never crossed any fine lines.

 

When you started posting here you immediately crossed some fine lines into a grey area (at least in this forum). Which shows that you and I have different opinions about where those fine lines are.

 

Between polite discussion and flaming there is somewhere a grey area of words and sentences that one person could regard as still acceptable and another person could view as an insult. That is why a moderators job isn't easy.

 

<deleted stuff>

 

There is a rule on this board against openly discussing moderator decisions. If you really really think you have been unfairly banned, contact a moderator (me, Roland or whoever you want) directly, but not with "i said, he said" stuff. Post a link to the discussion for which you were banned (if you know which one) or a list of discussions you were in before you were banned. (Note that moderation can take time, you might have been banned for posts that happened hours or even days ago)

 

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

I suggest visiting the discussion board on Steam then, to see for yourself what goes on.

 

I actually did. And let me tell you, on this board some of the people on both sides of the discussion there would have been warned and their posts deleted or edited. Matt115 is quite right, because we here have less posts and more ways to penalize users we can keep discussions much more polite here.

 

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

Regardless whether you are all employed by them or not, fact is you all represent TFP. Even if it is volunteer PR, you are all a team of volunteers representing the forefront of the company's interactions with the community. What you all do reflects what the company likes, dislikes, allows and disallows. Bias is allowed, but fair expression of opinions and views are not if they conflict a volunteer's bias.

 

that's literally how they treat their community on the steam discussion board.

 

Valid point. Though I have seen grey-area insulting posts there yesterday on both sides and nobody was banned simply for his opinion. At least in the short time I was reading there I did not see any bias. But an agressiveness way above anything you will see here.

 

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

I guess if nobody bothers to pay attention to the comments section at all, but in this particular case, it's not an informational video, but apparently being treated as such. The video wasn't about any source of information. It was Reach Gaming's opinion on what is going on with TFP and 7DTD. I mean, what are you doing here? Being influential in such a way that we should disregard his views on the topics he covered because you see YouTube as a one way street. It's not a one way street. Many people share comments and discussions in the comments just as they would on any forum or discussion board. The watcher and reader can see all side of the discussion.

 

Just to make that clear: I regard or disregard his views like any other views I don't know about. I do not watch youtubers, I don't know Reach or anyone else there. And since I'm not a PR guy of TFP I don't need to.

 

If you are talking about the typically one-liner comments below a video, that is far from a real dialog or discussion. Many people here talked about Reach's video but I haven't heard a single mention of another person besides Reach having been a part of whatever discussion you think happened. Looks very one-way to me. 

 

9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

 

This is not a good direction for TFP and it is in part, a problematic pattern. Reach Gaming talked about patterns. Well, there are many bad patterns being repeated time and again and moderator bias is one of those bad patterns that has been allowed to continue for years. Moderators are supposed to be above that putting fairness and equality primary before their personal biases. Playing Kick The Can with the community isn't respectful.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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On 8/5/2022 at 8:16 PM, Laz Man said:

Youtubers can be great supporters for games, however their opinions must always be taken with a grain of salt.

So are you saying we should take the opinions on this forum with less salt, or what?  If so, then you don't see the real problem here?

 

I agree. Some youtubers do use the "wow factor" in their opinions to gain more followers and money but I don't believe that's the case here. I believe he's explaining his natural point of view. He even pointed out some positive things as well (which somehow went unnoticed).  But all of this brings us back to a main point.

 

1) You clearly have a biased opinion here, for obvious reasons. 2) The majority of this forum is riddled with nut huggers who wouldn't even dare speak bad about TFP or the game, and consistently ridicule those who do post anything negative.

On 8/5/2022 at 8:16 PM, Laz Man said:

If he truly wanted a discussion he could of posted here but chose to have a one sided narrative instead.

 

Can you blame him? Why would he or anyone else come here and try to have a conversation? Especially after reading this thread. 

 

Again, the main point. A person can't express their REAL negative opinions or problems with the game without having 50 nut nuggers coming to TFP's rescue and telling them that if they don't like it then come up with something better, or learn to mod the game. Who in their right mind would even try after reading several threads like these?

 

Edit: Nevermind you already addressed this and I didn't read it before I posted.

 

If you want a utopian forum where everyone only talks about how great the game is then just say so and stop hiding behind this fake "we're always open to have a discussion and resolve your issues" facade BS platitude.  Just be honest. (note: This part isn't referencing you Laz Man. Just in general)

Edited by Sal (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Sal said:

I agree. Some youtubers do use the "wow factor" in their opinions to gain more followers and money but I don't believe that's the case here. I believe he's explaining his natural point of view. He even pointed out some positive things as well (which somehow went unnoticed).  But all of this brings us back to a main point.

See? Actually, you just did what @Laz Man said... you took that video with "a grain of salt".

That doesn't mean that in other cases, YouTubers are always fair and unbiased (or even informed enough on the matter they're discussing).

 

2 hours ago, Sal said:

You clearly have a biased opinion here, for obvious reasons. 2) The majority of this forum is riddled with nut huggers who wouldn't even dare speak bad about TFP or the game, and consistently ridicule those who do post anything negative.

Yes, you're the most unbiased person on this forum (and BTW, I'm the Queen of England).

 

2 hours ago, Sal said:

Can you blame him? Why would he or anyone else come here and try to have a conversation? Especially after reading this thread. 

If they come here with youcantgetridofme's attitude, then you're right, they better stay home. I don't see any politeness or willingness to have a conversation on their side. I only see snarky remarks on the devs, the game, and this community. What would you do if someone came to your home and started shouting and insulting everyone? Would you be welcoming?

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9 hours ago, youcantgetridofme said:

The discussions going on, on Steam, are clean in most cases. It's no more clean or dirty over on Steam than it is here. TFP have two forum / discussion boards. One here and one on Steam. They are both platforms for discussions about this game and TFP. They have their volunteer PR team manage them both. To place relevance on one part of a community moreover another because they communicate in two different locations or both, is pretty inconsiderate. Long story short, what you're saying is the Steam member part of community who communicates over Steam is part of a junkyard. Wow. The 7DTD forum is no different than any other forum on the internet and it's no different than if people were to communicate on the Steam discussion board - at least it shouldn't be, but according to you, it is.

This is one of the patterns that is bad. TFP, PR crew and part of the community have allowed the bias to sway this way and some people even encourage it. It's just another bad pattern to be lumped in with all the other bad patterns Reach Gaming talked about.

Nope. Meganoth is right: someone people - both : people against and for something should be banned on  steam if their cross the line.  I will  try to explain why steam and forum is so diffrent - forum is just like small shop - you can check age of someone to know if you can sell him alcohol right because number of customers is low and mostly came people from neiborhood so most of time you see this same faces. But steam is like supermarket - there is a lot of customers and not enough cashiers. So they can't check everyone age so line is long. There is almost always new face etc. so this is much harder to do. 

 

I have some groups on discord - some of them are rly good moderated like Toplitz group. Some of them are.... mess. This same thing with forums - some of them are clean like 7DTD forum someone of them are mess - for example there is topic about game mechanic but everyone talk about everyhing - someone want to sell car few people just argue about something controversial , someone is trolling, someone is flamming. But here? here situation is stable - no flamming, no trolling, no bots, etc.

 

TFP don't have PR crew. PR crew have - CD project, Techland, Activision etc. If you mean QA - this is diffrent thing that PR

 

2 hours ago, Sal said:

So are you saying we should take the opinions on this forum with less salt, or what?  If so, then you don't see the real problem here?

 

I agree. Some youtubers do use the "wow factor" in their opinions to gain more followers and money but I don't believe that's the case here. I believe he's explaining his natural point of view. He even pointed out some positive things as well (which somehow went unnoticed).  But all of this brings us back to a main point.

 

1) You clearly have a biased opinion here, for obvious reasons. 2) The majority of this forum is riddled with nut huggers who wouldn't even dare speak bad about TFP or the game, and consistently ridicule those who do post anything negative.

 

Can you blame him? Why would he or anyone else come here and try to have a conversation? Especially after reading this thread. 

 

Again, the main point. A person can't express their REAL negative opinions or problems with the game without having 50 nut nuggers coming to TFP's rescue and telling them that if they don't like it then come up with something better, or learn to mod the game. Who in their right mind would even try after reading several threads like these?

 

Edit: Nevermind you already addressed this and I didn't read it before I posted.

 

If you want a utopian forum where everyone only talks about how great the game is then just say so and stop hiding behind this fake "we're always open to have a discussion and resolve your issues" facade BS platitude.  Just be honest. (note: This part isn't referencing you Laz Man. Just in general)

 

I'm writing a lot of negative things - i think Jost and Meganoth will agree about that - i don't like some TFP decisions, some trends connected with 7dtd but.... i'm cultural.

IF he can blame him? Yes. There is a lot of difftent channels on YT, Twitter , twitch etc. so if someone want to make disscusion - this person should write here because not everyone want to create account everywhere + check everyone. Do you have time to watch evey 7dtd's ytber everyday? i think not. So if they want to make discusion - they can write here. And small thinjg about YT - read comments is much much faster and easier to quote + you have check easy someone comments, But if you comment video you have too check and sometime even few times some parts of video + usually video is : 3 miutes about twitch, patrons etc about topic again adverstising topic adversting.

 

I'm trying to make convesation: you can check my and roland disscusion. I think 7DTD should be more edgier and darker. And how often someone shows up to support me ? almost never. But with thing like LBD , lack of zombie models etc. people agree with me while Devs don't. Yes i hate this "if you don't like this make to mod" guys but..  for example - if there would be during A10 more people that wanted zombie children they would probably add them because it was early stage of develpment. Now 7DTD is almost finished and it's almost too late for most things. So if you want something "fundemental" to works diffrent = wait for 7DTD 2 annoucments and write what do you think should something work then. 

 

They don't want utopian forum just sometopic where so offten : LBD, water threats, food spoling over and over so some of us are just tired to write this same thing but that's true - we are open about diffrent opinions but this don't mean there will be a lot of answers about that

 

 

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I'd like to remind everyone that the forum has a nice feature: You have an ignore list where you can put forums users with which you don't seem to get along. Ignorance can be bliss 😁

 

The ignore list is somewhere behind the button in the top right corner.

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I'd like to remind everyone that the forum has a nice feature: You have an ignore list where you can put forums users with which you don't seem to get along. Ignorance can be bliss 😁

 

The ignore list is somewhere behind the button in the top right corner.

 

 

 

 

No, you have to mouseover their name to get the ignore option.

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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

I'd like to remind everyone that the forum has a nice feature: You have an ignore list where you can put forums users with which you don't seem to get along. Ignorance can be bliss 😁

Thank you so muchfor this suggestion!! :whoo:

Spoiler

*proceeds to add meganoth to the ignore list...* :spy:

 

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5 hours ago, Sal said:

You clearly have a biased opinion

No kidding. all opinion is biased.

 

5 hours ago, Sal said:

The majority of this forum is riddled with nut huggers

Insulting people instead of actually making a point is just asking for a deletion/ban.

5 hours ago, Sal said:

A person can't express their REAL negative opinions or problems with the game

and yet............ people do it on a regular basis without needing to resort to insults

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

if there would be during A10 more people that wanted zombie children they would probably add them because it was early stage of develpment. Now 7DTD is almost finished and it's almost too late for most things.

Being close to finished has absolutely zero to do with them not putting in zombie children. The fact that some countries would ban the game is the reason for that and they've said so many many many times.

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3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Thank you so muchfor this suggestion!! :whoo:

  Hide contents

*proceeds to add meganoth to the ignore list...* :spy:

 

 

Finally. I was nearly dispairing that none of my more subtle hints in the last weeks seemed to work. Everyone else, expect some juicy reveals now that the pipeline to steam is closed 😎

3 hours ago, Urban Blackbear said:

 

No, you have to mouseover their name to get the ignore option.

 

Thank you. That is definitely easier and faster than the way I suggested

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

 

Being close to finished has absolutely zero to do with them not putting in zombie children. The fact that some countries would ban the game is the reason for that and they've said so many many many times.

well being banned in some countries is sometimes... proof that game is rly good. But this wasn't my point:

My point was : if someone have controversial  ( by this i mean halve of people like this halve not) the best time to talk about is on begining.

BTW : next time if you have better example about something that can change game a lot write this idea, because : LBD? It wasn't controvesial during A11, hornet? well almost everyone wanted to removed them so there is no better example  

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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