Starving to death is too easy

[roth5264]

As the title states, one starves to death in the beginning of the game far to easily.  Could something be changed to prevent this?

[meganoth]

1) Generally the game is about learning how to overcome its difficulties. The more you play the more you will know ways to get food. Did you know that the food machine at the trader gets new stuff every day? By buying all cans in there and hunting lots of chickens with the perk that shows you where they are you can get by easy in the first few days. Long term you should get at least one point into LivingOfTheLand and start a farm

 

2) If you are in a multiplayer game you probably should designate one player as farmer and one as a hunter. And everyone should hunt from time to time in the first days until the farm is big enough. Also buried supplies quests give you lots of food and food recipes.

 

3) You can make yourself waste less food if you don't run in heavy armor, even walk at times, and don't do any heavy mining for the first few days. Also put a point into the perk that makes food last longer.

 

4) AND there is always the possibility to mod the game to make food easier to get.

 

[Pernicious]

Funny thing is, I thought the complaint was going to be the other way. My first playthrough on A19, it felt we were on the edge of starvation for the first 3 weeks. Chickens and rabbits weren't exactly plentiful but they were around- at least every 3rd day or whenever the respawn rate was, but you also had to be good with the bow or willing to risk using a blunderbus.

 

Don't know how much was getting better at the game and how much was rebalance, but A20 felt like small game was everywhere and their hitboxes got bigger.  The introduction of pipe weapons also made hunting easier and by day 3 or 4, it felt like hunger was no longer a risk, as long as one day a week could be spent hunting. By the time you got to the snow biome, the biggest risk was that your inventory would be full of meat before you got to your quest if you didn't stop hunting. By day 40 or so, after making one box for meat and another for cooked food, we decided that we were only keeping leather and bones for crafting and would discard the meat and fat.

 

But I guess everyone has differentsettings and plays in different ways. Meganoth has some good advice. The only few major ones I'd add is don't forget you can run into town and raid houses for food without a quest (both the kitchen cupboards and often small piles of food lying around) and if you get a quest in that house, the shelves all magically restock Also aiming down sights and keeping a bow drawn drains stamina and therefore food. Finally, the perk to speed up healing also consumes food and you should wait until you have a steady supply of food before you spend points in it.

 

Bon appetit! 

 

 

[Maharin]

I will say that there is one annoying starvation thing that happens with A20... the fact that you can get stuck without being able to swing a weapon or tool and effectively become trapped while waiting to die.  Case in point... I was very hungry but not thirsty and only had a little food and water on me.  I had a buried treasure quest that I went after figuring it could at least temporarily fix my problem.  I dug through and found the chest but ran out of food and water before I cracked open the chest (no picks, stone axe).  I was underground, couldn't dig out, and couldn't do much of anything except wait to die.  I didn't even have any glass to munch on to speed things up.

 

Stamina regen should never go to zero... instead it should just take longer to regen each point depending on your current condition.  That way you could at least struggle to do things more slowly to survive.

[theFlu]

6 hours ago, roth5264 said:

one starves to death in the beginning of the game far to easily. 

With a basic grasp of the mechanics, starving to death is basically impossible. Sure, I have 3k hours in the game, so my experience is going to be completely different to a fresh player; but food is never really a concern. The worst I get in A20 is: I might have to look at the orange icon on day 2. I would really have to try to get killed by lack of food, and be awfully annoyed while doing it.

 

Catch all the small game you see (chickens you can sprint down and club, rabbits you might want to shoot), look for eggs while running around, loot the cabinets/fridges of every place you enter. If desperate, buy some cans from vending machines.

 

36 minutes ago, Maharin said:

I was underground, couldn't dig out, and couldn't do much of anything except wait to die.

While I'll commiserate your rotten fate; it was you who dug yourself into a hole you couldn't get out of. While the way you died sounds booooring, you could've/would've/should've just as easily attracted a pair of zeds down there with you and you would've been dead anyway. Don't do that; always keep your exits usable and clear. Plus, you didn't have any frames on you to make a ladder? Basics, mate, basics..

[Maharin]

1 minute ago, theFlu said:

While I'll commiserate your rotten fate; it was you who dug yourself into a hole you couldn't get out of. While the way you died sounds booooring, you could've/would've/should've just as easily attracted a pair of zeds down there with you and you would've been dead anyway. Don't do that; always keep your exits usable and clear. Plus, you didn't have any frames on you to make a ladder? Basics, mate, basics..

 

In all honesty I was far too frustrated with the turn of events to bother with thinking my way out of it... I didn't wait to die, I just left the game and started a new one.  My point stands, especially when you consider the people that are going to find themselves in this situation the most are new players at the beginning of their journey.  A slow dead end is enough to make a lot of people rage quit a game.

[theFlu]

1 minute ago, Maharin said:

A slow dead end is enough to make a lot of people rage quit a game.

Perhaps; I would predict most will take it as a learning experience though...

[Maharin]

1 minute ago, theFlu said:

Perhaps; I would predict most will take it as a learning experience though...

 

Let's think about that for a moment.  It was a change that was new to A20, it was not expected nor was it predictable based on anything I remember reading.  I could still walk all over underground and jump as many times as I wanted but I couldn't even swing my little axe once.  Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this scenario?

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, Maharin said:

I could still walk all over underground and jump as many times as I wanted but I couldn't even swing my little axe once.  Are you telling me you don't see a problem with this scenario?

Honestly, it's kinda news to me. I don't doubt you, but from what I've seen on the tubes and whatnot, I haven't seen anyone get to actual zero regen - I kinda assumed you were exaggerating. If it does happen, it is a bit messed up for sure; but in normal gameplay it'll mean you'll feed yourself to a zed.

 

And while I took the angle of ribbing you a bit, I was doing it mostly to point out some of the basics. Figured it might suit a thread about the basics of food survival..

[Rotor]

I havent starved to death.  However, on my first or second play through 100 hrs ago, I did dehydrate to death.  Never again.

[Darthjake]

10 hours ago, roth5264 said:

As the title states, one starves to death in the beginning of the game far to easily.  Could something be changed to prevent this?

 

I try not to do too much exertion in the first few days.

 

Focus on bow, spear, cooking, forge if I haven't found a schematic yet, and then Cardio and Iron Gut.  Once I have a nice routine going I'll get Living off the Land and start working on my farm.

 

Bacon & Eggs I'll make however much I have the eggs for, (insert blatant plea for a chicken coop from TFP here.)  There is a farming mod that has them that I love to use, but I've been playing without mods for bit, trying to get back to the original concept.  Then hopefully jump straight to meat stew if I've been lucky enough to find my veggies.  

 

I'll normally get 2 of the 3, corn, potato or mushrooms.  Last game was corn and shrooms, I can't believe I haven't found a potato patch yet.

[Gamida]

Are you starving or are you just noticing the hunger noise and icon. From what I recall your player makes the hunger noise at 75, 50 and 25%.

I have seen streamers have their hunger bar down so low I really couldn't see it. I think even if at 0 you health just slowly drops. I say think because I try to keep mine so close to full as possible as

I like my stamina

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, Darthjake said:

 

I try not to do too much exertion in the first few days.

 

Focus on bow, spear, cooking, forge if I haven't found a schematic yet, and then Cardio and Iron Gut.  Once I have a nice routine going I'll get Living off the Land and start working on my farm.

 

Bacon & Eggs I'll make however much I have the eggs for, (insert blatant plea for a chicken coop from TFP here.)  There is a farming mod that has them that I love to use, but I've been playing without mods for bit, trying to get back to the original concept.  Then hopefully jump straight to meat stew if I've been lucky enough to find my veggies.  

 

I'll normally get 2 of the 3, corn, potato or mushrooms.  Last game was corn and shrooms, I can't believe I haven't found a potato patch yet.

 

Bacon&Eggs is overrated in my view. After you have searched the vicinity of your base for nests further finds need you to travel into otherwise empty wilderness to find more eggs. Lots and lots of time wasted if you specifically search for eggs.

 

This means that while one egg in bacon&eggs delivers somewhat the same nutrition as a 5er stack of meat the meat is much easier to get (in A20). This is why I start to reserve the eggs for pies except when nothing else to eat is available.

 

[Blake_]

19 hours ago, roth5264 said:

As the title states, one starves to death in the beginning of the game far to easily.  Could something be changed to prevent this?

Well, we have our parents to help us avoid that fate, at least for the first few years. I too find life a bit too punishing sometimes. It needs to be tuned down a notch.

[Maharin]

10 hours ago, theFlu said:

Honestly, it's kinda news to me. I don't doubt you, but from what I've seen on the tubes and whatnot, I haven't seen anyone get to actual zero regen - I kinda assumed you were exaggerating. If it does happen, it is a bit messed up for sure; but in normal gameplay it'll mean you'll feed yourself to a zed.

 

And while I took the angle of ribbing you a bit, I was doing it mostly to point out some of the basics. Figured it might suit a thread about the basics of food survival..

 

I had at least one other ailment at the time, probably infection.  And I was in full starvation mode and full dehydration mode by the time I was well into banging on the chest trying to get it open.  My health was dropping very slowly and I would have been waiting 10 real minutes or more just to die.

 

As I said earlier, instead of having stamina regen reduced to zero they should just have the time between stamina regen ticks increase so that your rate never goes to zero no matter what you've got going on.  Death should not ever be the preferential (or only) option in a survival game, especially if you're playing perma death or are aiming for more immersion in your game style.  If this was a simulation of sorts then I'd get it and call it realism (except the ability to jump never going away), but this is a game that is far from a simulation.

[canadianbluebeer]

gun. bullets. snowbiome. MEAT.

nom-nom-nom.

 

 

oh yeah, toss a couple pts into cooking.

chilidogs, tacos, etc.

 

(finding a grill/pot though... well... )

 

 

[Sellsents]

I do not really have a problem when food is scares. I also do not have a problem searching for vending machines and doing quests to get the money to buy food at the vendor. But what I have a problem with is, that certain foods like canned foods do not give a good saturation when you eat them. You are down to 20 percent food on your first day, reach the vendor, sell everything you gathered so far just to buy the 3 or 4 canned goods at the vending machine and then need to eat all of it immediatly to get decently full. If rng is hitting you hard, and yes I had this in one of my last playthroughs, you will not fnd enough life stock to get enough meat to make it through the first nights.

 

Generally one day lasts 2h in my games, loot chance reduced and with more zombies. I tried to play with 25% loot chance and I was fine with the loot in generall but it was impossible for me to find foods in the game anymore by looting. I also wasn´t able to find a grill. I had only 2 bottles of water on day one which was enough to keep me alive, filling up the glasses with water and cooking them nonstop no problem. But the food was a problem and I died on day 2. Couldn´t find enough animals to keep me alive and all my engery and time in this 2 days I was alive went into doing quests nonstop to be able to buy the cans at the traders vending machine or any other machine I could find. But since I was always down on foot to around 10 to 20 percent, I always had to eat all bought cans and meats immediatly after buying/hunting. And rng made animals rare on that seed. I was up for the challenge and I still would prefer playing with loot chance down to 25 percent. Because this way books, weapons and other goodies are scares and so the use of the trader becomes more meaningfull, but the low food saturation is a problem in the game when rng is not playing along with such settings. Like I said, I don´t mind a challenge, so I am ok with finding only 3 or 4 cans of food today or only a view chickens or rabbits. But when I find food, no matter if cooked or canned, I should be able to fill me up and still have something left for the night. It makes no sense that I do quests then go to the vendor, buy 4 cans and need to eat them all to decently fill me up. 

[Roland]

15 hours ago, Maharin said:

 

In all honesty I was far too frustrated with the turn of events to bother with thinking my way out of it... I didn't wait to die, I just left the game and started a new one.  My point stands, especially when you consider the people that are going to find themselves in this situation the most are new players at the beginning of their journey.  A slow dead end is enough to make a lot of people rage quit a game.

If that happens again send me a pm and I’ll join your game to come dig you out!

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Sellsents said:

I do not really have a problem when food is scares. I also do not have a problem searching for vending machines and doing quests to get the money to buy food at the vendor. But what I have a problem with is, that certain foods like canned foods do not give a good saturation when you eat them. You are down to 20 percent food on your first day, reach the vendor, sell everything you gathered so far just to buy the 3 or 4 canned goods at the vending machine and then need to eat all of it immediatly to get decently full. If rng is hitting you hard, and yes I had this in one of my last playthroughs, you will not fnd enough life stock to get enough meat to make it through the first nights.

 

Generally one day lasts 2h in my games, loot chance reduced and with more zombies. I tried to play with 25% loot chance and I was fine with the loot in generall but it was impossible for me to find foods in the game anymore by looting. I also wasn´t able to find a grill. I had only 2 bottles of water on day one which was enough to keep me alive, filling up the glasses with water and cooking them nonstop no problem. But the food was a problem and I died on day 2. Couldn´t find enough animals to keep me alive and all my engery and time in this 2 days I was alive went into doing quests nonstop to be able to buy the cans at the traders vending machine or any other machine I could find. But since I was always down on foot to around 10 to 20 percent, I always had to eat all bought cans and meats immediatly after buying/hunting. And rng made animals rare on that seed. I was up for the challenge and I still would prefer playing with loot chance down to 25 percent. Because this way books, weapons and other goodies are scares and so the use of the trader becomes more meaningfull, but the low food saturation is a problem in the game when rng is not playing along with such settings. Like I said, I don´t mind a challenge, so I am ok with finding only 3 or 4 cans of food today or only a view chickens or rabbits. But when I find food, no matter if cooked or canned, I should be able to fill me up and still have something left for the night. It makes no sense that I do quests then go to the vendor, buy 4 cans and need to eat them all to decently fill me up. 

 

What are you saying? "I want the challenge, but I don't want the challenge" ?

 

The challenge of the first few days in this game **is** to get food (besides staying alive). Cans offer plenty nutritional value but only after you use them in advanced recipes. If you eat them "pure", they offer somewhat the same value as cooking pure meat into a grilled steak.

 

The 25% rule is only reducing your loot and money, it is not reducing the number of chickens or the number of cans you find in the vending machine.

And if you can't get through the night in single player even while you hunt and buy the cans then you are definitely using too much stamina during the day. Running constantly or in heavy armor? Mining much? Using power attacks all the time?

 

Someone else here said chickens can be killed in melee. Sure, but you waste part of the food you get with running after them if you can't hit them with the first or second swipe. I often can't. Hunt with a bow and you usually will save more of the stamina for other tasks. Naturally it depends on how good someone is at it, if he needs 10 seconds to aim and 10 arrows for a single chicken then even hunting will not save him.

 

If you were doing quests non-stop then you couldn't do much hunting. Hunting needs you to go into unexplored areas as once an area is cleaned you won't find animals there for a few days. So instead of doing quests in the same area all the time and getting a few chickens on the side you really have to hunt. Roam around with or without quest, look for signs of animals and hunt them. Select quests that send you into new directions

 

Another hint: New animals are spawned in the night but they are very strong for a low-level character but give lots of meat. Attack them from a defensible position if you have collected enough arrows and/or bullets (either your base or a POI you cleaned before and removed the stairs to the upper floor). Try to go for headshots

[pApA^LeGBa]

My tip would be, do your starting quests, go to the trader, do a buried supply quest if possible. You will most likely get food in the chest and get money as a reward to buy more food in the vending machine. If there is no buried supply quest take a normal quest instead, you will get a bit of mioney to buy food also and you have an empty house for your first few days as a base. Keep doing quests and you will get a solid amount of coin.

 

I also sell pretty much everything i find on my way to the trader. Things like brass door knobs found in the trash for example. Literally everything that isn´t crucial right now. Things like glue, ductape, first aid, acid and such you should keep.

 

Hunt every chicken you see, you are faster than them, so if you want food, walk around looking for chicken and only start running when they run away, should be easy to get them then even without a bow. Using a bow is easier though as you can shoot them before they see you.

 

And ofc check every birds nest. Hop on big rocks or simply nerdpole up with 3 or 4 frames to spot the nests easier.

 

 

[Laz Man]

17 hours ago, Maharin said:

I will say that there is one annoying starvation thing that happens with A20... the fact that you can get stuck without being able to swing a weapon or tool and effectively become trapped while waiting to die.  Case in point... I was very hungry but not thirsty and only had a little food and water on me.  I had a buried treasure quest that I went after figuring it could at least temporarily fix my problem.  I dug through and found the chest but ran out of food and water before I cracked open the chest (no picks, stone axe).  I was underground, couldn't dig out, and couldn't do much of anything except wait to die.  I didn't even have any glass to munch on to speed things up.

 

Stamina regen should never go to zero... instead it should just take longer to regen each point depending on your current condition.  That way you could at least struggle to do things more slowly to survive.

 

I dunno, sounds like you 'dug' your own grave there...😆

 

On the bright side, you saved yourself some time and money in burial costs...😆

[Kyonshi]

22 hours ago, roth5264 said:

As the title states, one starves to death in the beginning of the game far to easily.  Could something be changed to prevent this?

No, starving isn't easy. Hunt small game, loot grocery stores. Do Buried Supplies missions. You have plenty of ways to get food. It amazes me that there's still people complaining about this. Food is the easiest resource to get in this game.

 

I'm currently playing a Wasteland-only map, one of the most hostile environment to progress in. Very few wild life apart zombie bears/dogs. Loot is hard to get because of increased zombie spawns and numbers. But I've arranged myself to have enough food. Nothing compared to the overwhelming amounts you get in other biomes, but I'm fine for now.

 

Nothing about the game need to be changed for this. YOU need to change and, sorry to say that, git gud.

[Orclover]

Here is what is killing you most likely (besides inexperience with the game mechanics), sprinting.  STOP SPRINTING!  Seriously just walk unless you HAVE to escape with sprinting.  Save traveling faster until you get a bicycle (easily obtained in a few hours).  

 

Getting maxed out hunger bar is not easy at the start, so stop aiming for that.  Just concentrate on not starving.  Raid every cabinet in a kitchen.  Raid every BBQ pit you see, even the fire places.  Take a shot at every critter that gives meat and be ready to fight pigs for meat, even wolves.  If you can take down a bear (possible on day 1 with planning and plenty of wood) you are set for a day or two.

 

Most importantly, find a trader and a few vending machines around a town.  Traders give money for selling almost everything, they give money (and food) for quest.  You gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women...... the food (from traders and vending machines).  When you find the vender and start doing quest/selling its almost impossible to starve (to death).  Its a huge annoying time sink that takes most of your time, but staying alive with food is not hard.

 

If you want to stop worrying about food in the long run (and concentrate on other aspects of the game) then when you start farming, edit the config to give you the seed back whenever you grow something every time.  

[Syphon583]

Good lord, if anything they need to make food a little more scarce. This is a zombie/survival game. I want to be challenged, especially in the beginning. IMO there is way too much small game running around. With a bow and club/bone knife, I could have plenty of meat to carry me for a few days.

 

I honestly wish some food would spoil, but I know that opens a whole can of worms (no pun intended), so I'm OK with it as is.

[Maharin]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

If that happens again send me a pm and I’ll join your game to come dig you out!

 

At that point you'd be the food I needed.