Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Grandpa Minion]

 

a

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Grandpa Minion (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, Grandpa Minion said:

WITH THE OPTIMIZER

* after optimizer A21 update:

 

"Before i added the a21 optimizer update: 39 players on our server was unplayable server fps was around 5

 

Our server has been testing the optimzier for multiple months now and couldn't imagaine running a multiplayer server without it in a21.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Officially supported number of players: 1-8. 

[meganoth]

28 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

Officially supported number of players: 1-8. 

 

He knows. The optimizations used could still have positive effects for <=8 players too, and making more players happy is nice if the changes are easy to implement and have no detrimental effects on normal play.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

25 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

He knows. The optimizations used could still have positive effects for <=8 players too, and making more players happy is nice if the changes are easy to implement and have no detrimental effects on normal play.

 

 

Good. It's a matter of optimizing performance. 
What about the balance problem? Do you think TFP will be able to balance the game for 1-8-32 players at the same time? The problem of synchronizing the destructible world between all players. 
This is either a solo and a cooperative of up to 8 people, or servers.  
I don't understand the TFP policy on this issue a bit. They don't want to deny more than 8 players on the server, but they also don't provide official support. 
I really hope this issue will be resolved by the time we get to the gold.

[meganoth]

35 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

Good. It's a matter of optimizing performance. 
What about the balance problem? Do you think TFP will be able to balance the game for 1-8-32 players at the same time? The problem of synchronizing the destructible world between all players. 

 

TFP surely won't do anything about the balance. But there is a difference between having to install a cryptic mod that modifies low-level stuff in the game and depends on one talented guy who could loose interest in supporting the mod at any time, and a rather "simply" XML balancing mod for servers lots of people could write.

 

35 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

 

This is either a solo and a cooperative of up to 8 people, or servers.  
I don't understand the TFP policy on this issue a bit. They don't want to deny more than 8 players on the server, but they also don't provide official support. 
I really hope this issue will be resolved by the time we get to the gold.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[spacepiggio]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

TFP surely won't do anything about the balance. But there is a difference between having to install a cryptic mod that modifies low-level stuff in the game and depends on one talented guy who could loose interest in supporting the mod at any time, and a rather "simply" XML balancing mod for servers lots of people could write.

 

 

I'm sorry but...aren't we still in XP? I thought we were still testing & looking for bugs. Maybe wait for the Stable Build before adding mods & running massive servers or even complaining about your mod not working. Let them fix the game so we can get a stable & we all can play & complain about something else that will @%$# us off down the road.

 

[fragtzack]

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I am pretty sure it once was only 6% per mod and could well go down again, even to smaller values. I still think it has a positive effect since you'll never be sorry when you find an installable mod even if you are not interested in the function of it itself. But I also would not shed tears if it vanished completely.

 

Mainly I think that adapting that percentage as well as the random variation are balancing details that would be "automatically" looked at and adapted when doing the range shrinking.

 

And yes, the 10% are very probably too much, but consider that currently a q5 stone item has 3, a q1 iron item has 1 mod slot. If all are filled the maximum bonus the q5 item gets from this is twice that bonus. Once the actual gap between q5 stone and q1 iron after the shrinking is known that bonus should be less than half that gap. Fast and easy balancing I would say.

 

Sure, you still have two more mods installed, which could skew the balance. But on the other hand many iron tier items have additional advantages. For example the q1 pistol has also more ammo capacity and the ability to load the magazine extender mod (though that could be a false rumor, I heard it but didn't check it myself).

 

I am not saying that your ideas are bad. Just that the current system has enough knobs to turn to make it work as well

 

 

IMHO, the mod slots should be independent of the quality #. 

 

All stone tier = 1 mod slot.

All Iron tier    = 2 mod slot.

All steel tier  = 3 mod slot

Getting a 4th mod slot (currently quality 6), requires survivor to purchase that enhancement from  a trader. An enhancement only available after completing tier 4 quest line.

This 4th mod slot could also be used on the lower tiers, thus possible for a stone tier to have 2 slots.

 

The game progression is definitely out of whack right now when it comes to how stone weapons with mods can be better than iron tier.  

[nickasaurus rex]

9 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Do you know that you can have more than one dew collector?

 

 

Yes, you need to factor in that damage. Either drink only a few sips, eat something afterwards or have a first aid bandage ready.

 

Yes of course I know that I'm just not a fan of how little one dew collector gives you. 

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, spacepiggio said:

I'm sorry but...aren't we still in XP? I thought we were still testing & looking for bugs. Maybe wait for the Stable Build before adding mods & running massive servers or even complaining about your mod not working. Let them fix the game so we can get a stable & we all can play & complain about something else that will @%$# us off down the road.

That is someone who has been part of testing a mod for quote a while now, even in A20.  It won't be released until stable.

 

I don't see any reason why they can't let those interested know how it is working on A21.  It is a third party and not TFP so it isn't hurting anyone's game or updates to the game or balancing of the game who isn't going to play on those servers.  Those who like those servers would want to know the status even if the rest of us really don't care.

[jorbascrumps]

1 hour ago, fragtzack said:

IMHO, the mod slots should be independent of the quality #. 

 

All stone tier = 1 mod slot.

All Iron tier    = 2 mod slot.

All steel tier  = 3 mod slot

Getting a 4th mod slot (currently quality 6), requires survivor to purchase that enhancement from  a trader. An enhancement only available after completing tier 4 quest line.

This 4th mod slot could also be used on the lower tiers, thus possible for a stone tier to have 2 slots.

 

The game progression is definitely out of whack right now when it comes to how stone weapons with mods can be better than iron tier.  

 

Mod slots are basically equivalent to item affixes in other games where higher rarities have increasing numbers of affixes possible. For example, in a game like Diablo legendaries are considered amongst the best gear because they have high stats and number of affixes. In 7 Days the concept is a little murky because we have "legendaries" in each tech tier which results in the current predicament. It's quite strange.

 

I'm not sure if TFP could/ will balance it so that a steel axe is definitively better than a stone axe 100% of the time because they like us to have interesting choices to make even if they may not make logical sense all of the time.

[Aldranon]

As I use to say: Guns don't kill people... it's the bullets.

So, pipe weapon would most likely do less damage as the pipe would rarely have an exact 7.62mm opening.  That would give less energy to the bullet and hence, do less damage.

 

For the modern weapons, the barrels condition would play the part in damage (probably a small part however).

 

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Hiya. Not sure why the optimizer I am producing keeps getting discussed. I have requested the testers be quiet about it and remove all links. That should never have been distributed. Sorry for any confusion on the subject. This forum should remain for discussion of a21. A new topic will be created for the optimizer when it is ready for public distro. Hope you are all enjoying the awesome new alpha

[Nimeni]

Is it me or the traders only restock what i have bought? Not bringing new stuff or different quantities.

Made a base near trader Jen,  and i has the same inv from day one (i m on 27), no matter what i buy or sell.   Possible bug on my side or it works as intended?

[Roland]

3 hours ago, Obsessive Compulsive said:

Hiya. Not sure why the optimizer I am producing keeps getting discussed. I have requested the testers be quiet about it and remove all links. That should never have been distributed. Sorry for any confusion on the subject. This forum should remain for discussion of a21. A new topic will be created for the optimizer when it is ready for public distro. Hope you are all enjoying the awesome new alpha

Well at least we know who the mystery author is now…

[RipClaw]

5 hours ago, Nimeni said:

Is it me or the traders only restock what i have bought? Not bringing new stuff or different quantities.

 

You might get that impression because many things are present all the time, but when you look at the weapons and tools you notice changes.
 

[nickasaurus rex]

Are you still supposed to take damage from murky water when you have a water purifier mod installed in a helmet? I'm still taking damage with the mod installed in my helmet. 

 

Seems kind of pointless to have a purifier mod that claims to allow the player to "safely drink water" but you still take 5 damage per sip. Unless this is a minor bug (doubt it) I'm guessing the mods only purpose is to prevent dysentery. 
 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by nickasaurus rex (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

40 minutes ago, nickasaurus rex said:

Are you still supposed to take damage from murky water when you have a water purifier mod installed in a helmet? I'm still taking damage with the mod installed in my helmet. 

This should not happen. If I have the mod installed in the helmet and drink murky water then I get no damage.

The XML files confirm that you should not get any damage:

 

<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfAction2End" action="ModifyStats" stat="Health" operation="add" value="-5">
        <!-- <requirement name="StatCompareCurrent" stat="Health" operation="GT" value="10"/> -->
        <requirement name="!HasBuff"  buff="buffWaterPurifier"/>
</triggered_effect>

 

[spacepiggio]

13 hours ago, Riamus said:

That is someone who has been part of testing a mod for quote a while now, even in A20.  It won't be released until stable.

 

I don't see any reason why they can't let those interested know how it is working on A21.  It is a third party and not TFP so it isn't hurting anyone's game or updates to the game or balancing of the game who isn't going to play on those servers.  Those who like those servers would want to know the status even if the rest of us really don't care.

That's not the point at all because its a sandbox game & the intentions of the pimps was to leave this game to the community for modding anyway.

It really sounds like he is making complaints that this XP build should support more than 8 players witch has always been the limit. I never ran more than an 8 man server but I had friends that did. I mean we are still in Alpha & the guidelines for testing & reporting bugs is not to exceed the parameter's listed by the Dev's. Witch they suggested not using creative menu or playing the game any other way than it was intended. We have always waited for a Stable Build for any long term gameplay & testing of mods.

[FranticDan]

Here's my thoughts on item progression. For the longest time, I have never bothered crafting a Q2 or Q4 item, as they never give an extra mod slot.
I would be more enticed to do so if Q1 - Q4 all have 2 mod slots, Q5 has 3 slots and Q6 has 4 slots.

Also, TFP have made the gap between T0 - T1 - T2 - T3 even worse now that each quality level gives a 15% boost compared to the 10% in the past. Example: a Q3 iron is weaker or on par with a Q5 primitive, making a Q1 and Q2 iron item a complete waste of resources to craft and use.

My suggestion, lower quality level bonus to 7.5% for a max of 30% at Q5, and Q6 adds 10% for total of 40%, but boost the mod bonus from 10% to 15%.
With this, a Q6 fully modded item will get a 100% boost.
A craftable Q5 primitive will max at 75% boost, whereas a Q1 iron will be able to get a 30% boost with the 2 mod slots, lowering the gap between item tiers.

[Glarnak]

Are there supposed to be potato items you can farm up in the wild? I only find potato in loot.  Flowers are abundant in the wild. Potato I have yet to find the plant.

[Scarman422]

4 hours ago, nickasaurus rex said:

Are you still supposed to take damage from murky water when you have a water purifier mod installed in a helmet? I'm still taking damage with the mod installed in my helmet. 

 

Seems kind of pointless to have a purifier mod that claims to allow the player to "safely drink water" but you still take 5 damage per sip. Unless this is a minor bug (doubt it) I'm guessing the mods only purpose is to prevent dysentery. 
 

I have the water purifier mod in my save as well and it works fine to me, i dont take any damage by drinking murky water. Maybe try to re-equip it ?

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Glarnak said:

Are there supposed to be potato items you can farm up in the wild? I only find potato in loot.  Flowers are abundant in the wild. Potato I have yet to find the plant.

I haven't found any potatoes in the wild yet but there are farms with potato fields. The plants are sometimes a little hard to spot.
 

[Riamus]

6 hours ago, spacepiggio said:

That's not the point at all because its a sandbox game & the intentions of the pimps was to leave this game to the community for modding anyway.

It really sounds like he is making complaints that this XP build should support more than 8 players witch has always been the limit. I never ran more than an 8 man server but I had friends that did. I mean we are still in Alpha & the guidelines for testing & reporting bugs is not to exceed the parameter's listed by the Dev's. Witch they suggested not using creative menu or playing the game any other way than it was intended. We have always waited for a Stable Build for any long term gameplay & testing of mods.

He is not complaining in any way.  He's posted similar details on how it is working before, even in A20.  It isn't a complaint and is only a notice of how well it works for those interested.  Personally, I think such things are better in the mods forum so they don't get lost in this thread but regardless it isn't a complaint and there's no reason they can't comment on it (other than that the author stated they don't want it to be commented on).  What you're suggesting is the same thing as saying that a mod author cannot update their mod for A21 yet and must wait until stable to do so.  If they want to make an update, even if it might need updated again between builds or at stable, they are welcome to do so and welcome to let people know it's available.  I doubt people would be happy if their favorite overhaul mod like DF or UL wasn't started to be updated until after stable is released and then had to wait for it.  They'd prefer to have it ready to go once stable is released.

 

2 hours ago, Glarnak said:

Are there supposed to be potato items you can farm up in the wild? I only find potato in loot.  Flowers are abundant in the wild. Potato I have yet to find the plant.

Potato plants should be possible to find in farms but are very hard to see if you're not really looking hard for them.  Not all fields will have a chance of them, which makes it more difficult to find them.  Finding potatoes in fields or garden plots on POIs is not a very good way to find them.  They are far more rare than corn or even blueberries.  It's like finding pumpkins or mushrooms.  They are there but are very rare.  The best option is to buy them whenever you see them for sale and use that to get your seeds going for farming.  Otherwise, it's up to luck looting and luck finding a POI that has them.  Also, in most cases, the chance of them being their changes with each POI reset, so even if you have them there, if you reset the POI for a quest, you might not have any after the reset (or vice versa).

[NekoPawtato]

On 6/23/2023 at 2:46 PM, Laz Man said:

 

Recall which POI that was?

I happened to run into this POI today, it's part_survivor_camp_03 if you were still looking for it

[wolfbain5]

Can we get these set to accept text in the number section instead of just the clunky arrows. Trying to get biome placements to the 10's % for any of them is rather cumbersome in its current form