Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Druid_Koldun]

Приветствую разработчиков, ребята. Скажите, пожалуйста, планируете ли вы добавить больше оружия в игру? Мне бы очень хотелось увидеть метательные ножи. И планируете ли вы добавить военный боевой нож? Ну, если честно, признаюсь, что мне нравятся все модели оружия, для охотничьего ножа эта модель практически ничего не стоит. Он какой-то маленький, извращенный и совершенно уродливый. Я большой поклонник ножей и очень хотел бы увидеть совершенно новое оружие. Спасибо

[Laz Man]

5 hours ago, custom_hero said:

 

the feedback was written in 2018

To whom degraded alpha 20 and HD models, to whom the peak of the development of the game, alpha 16.

Up to alpha 16, the game developed without a mass player, based on the ideas of a hardcore game with complex crafting and a horde (quote from the description of the game in steam "Experience real hardcore survival mechanics".).

On the 17th alpha, there was a reversal of the trend. They took a course for mass production and HD models.

In 17-19 alpha, simplified the crafting of weapons, transport, the size of the maneuverable world was reduced by 7 times, removed the degradation of weapons, tools, removed tillage, removed more than 50 items and blocks, simplified the crafting of many items, removed loot, loot from zombies.
The sounds of the game have changed a lot, smoothed out. There are no sharp, unexpected sounds that could keep the player in suspense. Ambient sounds have changed.
Motion Capture has been changed, now it's much easier to get into zombies. Previously, a zombie could stun with a blow after your next miss, due to the complex movement of zombies.

In Alpha 19, everything is quite simple, everything is structured. 6 levels of item quality, 3 shooting galleries. Without degradation.
There are stages of the game, unexpected, random events do not happen in the world. The world is empty, no one will disturb you. There will be no random zombies. Instead, there is a heatmap system, zombies will appear if there are working blocks (stoves, bonfires, chemical stations or when the drill is working). It's very simple, take a drill, press the lmb with a 100% guarantee that zombies will come to you.

In 19-20A there are/ will be, green zombies, drones, fantastic turrets, colorful HD models. A variety of vehicles that can be crafted and put in your pocket.

p.s
It's a pity that the game took a commercial (casual, arcade, in a beautiful wrapper) direction, as it usually happens. Could become a cult.
The game has lost its atmosphere. The idea of the game was, zombie apocalypse + complex crafting.
The game is more casual from version to version, we are waiting for a new indie game built on clean, bright ideas. Here you can put a cross.

 

Thankfully the game is designed by the developers to be moddable so a greater audience of players can enjoy it for many more hours after the vanilla experience is over. 😀

 

 

[zztong]

9 hours ago, Laran Mithras said:

Pallet of Cattle Feed confirmed. 

 

Hay bales have been in for a while.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Thankfully the game is designed by the developers to be moddable so a greater audience of players can enjoy it for many more hours after the vanilla experience is over. 😀

 

 

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

[BFT2020]

44 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

 

No that is not the same.  A buggy game having to be fixed by modders is not the same as a game that is not designed around the way you want it to be.

 

Mods are created to increase the content of games for various likes and desires, it is not an excuse because said game lacks content that you want.

 

Some people want a greater variety of firearms in the game (some even went weapons that are more antique than modern).  The developers are fine with the amount of guns they have in the game they are creating.   If the developers were to create a game that satisfies everyone's desires, then there won't be a game. Period.  The sheer amount of content being asked for this game would just simply bog it down and then they would have to start making significant design changes to accommodate all of that extra content.  Fully destructible world - gone so we can add more content.  Structural integrity -gone to add more content.

 

There is plenty of content in this game as a vanilla experience.  Just because it isn't the content you want does not mean that this game lacks content.  Laz Man was pointing out that with the game being easily moddable, you can either create your own mod or find a mod created by others to satisfy your content desires.

Edited February 21, 2023 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

 

Bugs and content are 2 completely different things.  Not a good analogy imo.

 

The user who commented wasn't disappointed about general lack of content but rather the simplification of systems over the course of several Alphas.

 

I can empathize with people who prefer a deeper simulation and wanted to point out that mods can alleviate some of that desire. (e.g. more complex recipes, resource gathering, weapon variety, skill progression, etc.)

 

Hopefully modding becomes even more accessible the closer we get to gold so it doesn't feel like a undesirable alternative.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Prydonian]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

This is like saying : hey another TES VI will be buggy but thankfully game is designed by the developears to be modable so community will fix bugs. Mods cannot be excuse for lack of content

They wouldn’t have to be “excused,” it’s their game.  

[Aldranon]

IDK, I kinda make my own "content".

-Will I be Super Soldier and tear through the wasteland like a CAT 5 hurricane or die trying?

-Will I be very careful not to get a cut or scratched because of deadly infections?

-Do I make a "Fortress of Doom" or go from poi to poi like a vagabond?

 

There are other more subtle preconceived ideas that sometime pop into my head while the game is loading.  

Getting these at least semi-fixed in my brain, paint the game for a good RPG event! 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Aldranon
spelling, as usual. (see edit history)

[Matt115]

11 hours ago, Prydonian said:

They wouldn’t have to be “excused,” it’s their game.  

 

14 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

No that is not the same.  A buggy game having to be fixed by modders is not the same as a game that is not designed around the way you want it to be.

 

Mods are created to increase the content of games for various likes and desires, it is not an excuse because said game lacks content that you want.

 

Some people want a greater variety of firearms in the game (some even went weapons that are more antique than modern).  The developers are fine with the amount of guns they have in the game they are creating.   If the developers were to create a game that satisfies everyone's desires, then there won't be a game. Period.  The sheer amount of content being asked for this game would just simply bog it down and then they would have to start making significant design changes to accommodate all of that extra content.  Fully destructible world - gone so we can add more content.  Structural integrity -gone to add more content.

 

There is plenty of content in this game as a vanilla experience.  Just because it isn't the content you want does not mean that this game lacks content.  Laz Man was pointing out that with the game being easily moddable, you can either create your own mod or find a mod created by others to satisfy your content desires.

I agree about firearms because it's part of balance too. Well Valheim have few tiers and that's good enough because it's good balance and  you don;'t have to dunno find "sword of fallen star " by 21 hours like in terraria.

But lack of variants of zombie is  hurt a lot - i doesn't mean types but variants - 

this is variants you can just make more models and use this same animations. You have 11 variants of  normal zombie in 7dtd. 11 VARIANTS.  There is no excuse for so low number of them.

Simplifications - simplicated crafting, food, building , removed wellness , removed corpses , and if good undestands clothing in future too ( i know there reason was technical stuff with preformance but it's simplification too). Only will be water more expended and that's it.

 

 

11 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Bugs and content are 2 completely different things.  Not a good analogy imo.

 

The user who commented wasn't disappointed about general lack of content but rather the simplification of systems over the course of several Alphas.

 

I can empathize with people who prefer a deeper simulation and wanted to point out that mods can alleviate some of that desire. (e.g. more complex recipes, resource gathering, weapon variety, skill progression, etc.)

 

Hopefully modding becomes even more accessible the closer we get to gold so it doesn't feel like a undesirable alternative.

 

Laz man - lack of content is part of simplification --> more building upgrades mean more content.  Food smell - more content.  simpler gun making --> less content

 

Okay mods will expend recipes, weapon variety etc. because devs want to keep this simple  okay no problem . - but you still have 11 variants of normal zombie.  Can mods add more variants? Yes ( i don't argue about quality of this mods because i'm too much tired about this). But it's still problem of basic game - and this is can be solve by devs - just add 25 models and reused animations and it will be good enough to avoid clone wars syndrome. So this can be to be done and mods are not neccesary to solve this problem. and i think nobody would complain about more zombie models

[Laz Man]

37 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

 

I agree about firearms because it's part of balance too. Well Valheim have few tiers and that's good enough because it's good balance and  you don;'t have to dunno find "sword of fallen star " by 21 hours like in terraria.

But lack of variants of zombie is  hurt a lot - i doesn't mean types but variants - 

this is variants you can just make more models and use this same animations. You have 11 variants of  normal zombie in 7dtd. 11 VARIANTS.  There is no excuse for so low number of them.

Simplifications - simplicated crafting, food, building , removed wellness , removed corpses , and if good undestands clothing in future too ( i know there reason was technical stuff with preformance but it's simplification too). Only will be water more expended and that's it.

 

 

 

Laz man - lack of content is part of simplification --> more building upgrades mean more content.  Food smell - more content.  simpler gun making --> less content

 

Okay mods will expend recipes, weapon variety etc. because devs want to keep this simple  okay no problem . - but you still have 11 variants of normal zombie.  Can mods add more variants? Yes ( i don't argue about quality of this mods because i'm too much tired about this). But it's still problem of basic game - and this is can be solve by devs - just add 25 models and reused animations and it will be good enough to avoid clone wars syndrome. So this can be to be done and mods are not neccesary to solve this problem. and i think nobody would complain about more zombie models

 

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....😅

[IzPrebuilt]

43 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....😅

 

You do know you can just say "We want to sell our game to more people and the more broad the audience the more simple and easy the game has to be" right?

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

but i'm allowed to say it. Even if TFP employees will probably pretend to disagree with it to maintain the illusion of being anything other than a company with the goal of making money.

[Fanatical_Meat]

5 minutes ago, IzPrebuilt said:

 

You do know you can just say "We want to sell our game to more people and the more broad the audience the more simple and easy the game has to be" right?

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

but i'm allowed to say it. Even if TFP employees will probably pretend to disagree with it to maintain the illusion of being anything other than a company with the goal of making money.

Well yeah, they’re a business with salaries, benefits and families to pay and provide for. This isn’t a dirty thing.

Focus on the fun, yes the game has become more “simple” and in my opinion it is still a ton of fun.

[Laz Man]

14 minutes ago, IzPrebuilt said:

 

You do know you can just say "We want to sell our game to more people and the more broad the audience the more simple and easy the game has to be" right?

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

but i'm allowed to say it. Even if TFP employees will probably pretend to disagree with it to maintain the illusion of being anything other than a company with the goal of making money.

 

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with wanting to reach more players.  Don't all game developers want more people to play their games?  As far as your statement about hardcore players, now that's really harsh and would disagree with you 100%.  Certainly making money is important, otherwise the owners can't hire the staff to finish the game and also make more games.  If it was only about the money, the game would of been shoved out the door as 1.0 along time ago in my opinion, just like many other cash grab early access games out there.

 

Hopefully A21, will further prove that to the fanbase.  Hang in there...I know the wait sucks....

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Roland]

19 minutes ago, IzPrebuilt said:

I mean you're not allowed to say the quiet part out loud, that being "and hardcore-survival players can go F themselves we already have your money and we need to get money from new people lmao"

 

Hardcore-Survival Players tend to assume EVERYTHING is trying to F them so no real surprise there...

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....😅

Simple games can be complicated too - Valheim is simple at first - find wood, made workbench make cube upgrade and kill boss then look for higher tier items and reapet. But then you have resistances, some plains can't grow everywhere, many types of baits, diffrent animals eats diffrent type of food, enemies have diffrent resistance and deal diffrent type of damage, in some areas water will slow your done or cold will  slowly kill you and drain stamina . Simple base but many complicated submechanics.

 

And returning to zombies - because i except as low as possible at this moment.  And to be honest - normal enemies are the most common so need as much variants as possible - well most zombies would be just civilians after all right so need most variants.  You can make many soldiers zombie types - begining of normal one ending on special ops or  sapper outfit. But do i expect that? no. And to be honest - i don't even know what Devs want - first the only mutant was wight - now wight is normal zombie while screamer and spider looking like B.O.W. 

 

So -  Behemot? nah

zombie teens? nah

grapping zombie? nah i just don't remember reason.

So option what can be add without changing into "night of the dead" ( it's terrible about setting and character design Night of the Dead na Steam (steampowered.com) ) are very very limited

So that's why i say about "zombie in diffrent clothes" because nothing more can be done xd

[Prydonian]

Eesh, the sense of entitlement is like a fog in here.  

[Morloc]

1 hour ago, Prydonian said:

Eesh, the sense of entitlement is like a fog in here.  

 

Nine years will do that to you.

Enough time to have a kid who is old enough to play 7D2D.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[Doomofman]

3 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Simplification doesn't always equate to a bad thing.  Keeping things simple often makes things more intuitive.  Not all will agree, but games can be simple but still provide a very rewarding and deep experience.  More variety will hopefully come when all of the core game features are in (e.g. bandits, story quest line, etc.).  Ironically, the one area you seem to be okay with simplification is in zombie character models (variants - same zombie wearing different clothes)....😅

 

I think it's more of a "if these are the only zombie models we're getting, at least change the colour of the clothes so we're not facing 5 totally identical zombies at the one time" thing... A compromise on the assumption there won't be any more unique zombies added

 

I'd take that over nothing

[Laz Man]

22 minutes ago, Doomofman said:

 

I think it's more of a "if these are the only zombie models we're getting, at least change the colour of the clothes so we're not facing 5 totally identical zombies at the one time" thing... A compromise on the assumption there won't be any more unique zombies added

 

I'd take that over nothing

 

I know I have heard talk of such things but no plans that I am aware of.

 

As a side note, apparently quality variants are already in the works by modders such as Mumpfy.  See his thread below for more information.

 

 

[Jost Amman]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Simple games can be complicated too

Ok, you lost me there... 

[Laz Man]

18 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Ok, you lost me there... 

 

Ever heard of Simplicated before? 😅

[Matt115]

45 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Ok, you lost me there... 

Game start simple - get eq to kill boss to be able to get better eq - simple right? but every another tier change a lot because - new biome have new rules, boss have resistances, you need specific and rare item to summon boss etc

 

 

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

I know I have heard talk of such things but no plans that I am aware of.

 

As a side note, apparently quality variants are already in the works by modders such as Mumpfy.  See his thread below for more information.

 

 

you see what i mean - there is no serious zombie pack mods for 7dtd. and to be honest - satanistic screamer? xd okay : i will show you something 

compire vanilia 7dtd zombie and from this mod

 then l4d2 common  infected and this :Warsztat Steam::Extended Common Infected (steamcommunity.com)

Edited February 21, 2023 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

45 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

you see what i mean - there is no serious zombie pack mods for 7dtd. 

This may be more a matter of not many people carrying much about the number of zombies.  This isn't some deep shooter game or RPG, where having hundreds of different enemies is needed.  Sure, I'd be happy to see alternate clothing on the existing zombies, but the game really doesn't need more zombies.

[Jost Amman]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Simple games can be complicated too - Valheim is simple at first - find wood, made workbench make cube upgrade and kill boss then look for higher tier items and reapet. But then you have resistances, some plains can't grow everywhere, many types of baits, diffrent animals eats diffrent type of food, enemies have diffrent resistance and deal diffrent type of damage, in some areas water will slow your done or cold will  slowly kill you and drain stamina . Simple base but many complicated submechanics.

That's not simple... it's just that the player starts not knowing the game much.

Exactly like in 7D2D: you start by doing simple stuff, and after a while you find out about much more complicated stuff.

[Matt115]

21 minutes ago, Riamus said:

This may be more a matter of not many people carrying much about the number of zombies.  This isn't some deep shooter game or RPG, where having hundreds of different enemies is needed.  Sure, I'd be happy to see alternate clothing on the existing zombies, but the game really doesn't need more zombies.

Game about zombies is about.... zombies while zombies are underdeveloped element. If it had "comic" art style like their are bilion of bordelands - small number of variants isn't a problem. In Killing floor or serious sam there is told that enemies are literaly clones. 

7dtd have realistic art style like - dayz , the forest or forza horizon.  So yeah - you need many diffrent looking fans on stands in FiFA - so you need much more models of zombie in 7dtd where you can find in small house 3 this same zombies