Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Jinx_DG]

15 minutes ago, crazywildfire said:

People are goin to go by the picture tells them

Yes they will. I propose a picture change then to something other than a glass jar. What that is I'll leave to others with more creativity than I to think on.

 

No one said it was one dew drop. It's one unit of water which can be any unit amount from oz to gallons. Try not to take things to literally. I've learned that lesson the hard way....

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Grue said:

 

I see you are not a fan of thinking ahead to avoid mistakes.

 

Have you heard the saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" or perhaps, "Measure twice, cut once"?

 

The time to correct course is before the mistake is made.

 

It is far better to give the feedback at the concept stage than to wait for them to @%$# things up then complain about it after the damage is done. By then, they will have already wasted the dev time on their new anti-features so they are more likely to fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy and run with it, than they are to correct the completely foreseeable problem(s) they should have avoided in the first place.

 

This is not the concept stage. TFP reveals features only when they are sure they are in, and they are sure they are in only after they are practically done implementing them.

 

And that means you are too late and too early at the same time. Too late to stop the implementation and too early to give informed feedback to the developers.

 

Informed feedback means feedback about how well it plays out in game, not an assessment of its realism. I am very very sure the developers already know there are big problems with the realism part.

 

2 hours ago, Grue said:

 

The choice to go to the nearest pond/river/swimming pool to collect as much dirty water as I need.

Yes, it still needs to be boiled for food/drinks, but I should still be able to go get it in virtually unlimited quantities outside of a desert biome.

 

Ah, okay, I had thought you meant meaningful choice when you said "player choice".

 

If the water you get from a lake is unlimited then there is no need for any other choice since this is just without any drawbacks.

 

2 hours ago, Grue said:

 

I keep hearing people say some variation of it being for game balance. That's fine, but if the implementation is anything like the A20 farming nerf, hard pass.

They made farming such a low-yield, pain-in-the-ass, time sink that it is practically not worth the effort to farm anymore.

Adding more pointless grind and wasting my time does not make for better gameplay.

 

There are players who want more survival than now. Others want less, like you. The devs seem to be in the first group. Simple as that. Thats the danger of a genre mix. It might appeal to a lot more players than a single-genre game, but all players who just want to play less than the whole mix get somewhat frustrated at having to play those other genre-parts.

 

I have a friend who absolutely hates the jump-and-run parts in many POIs. But it is part of the package and he has to endure them to play the rest of the game.

 

2 hours ago, Grue said:

 

As it stands, it sounds like this water nerf is just adding a pointless resource bottleneck and wasting my time for no good reason.

So let's assume, as Aldranon suggested, that the river water is contaminated with cesium for the sake of storyline and balance, what then?

For things like glue, that should not matter, we should be able to collect and use dirty water in bulk for that as we always have.

 

For food and drinks, logically more processing would be needed to clean the water and make it potable. Filtering, boiling etc. That makes room for a water purifier to be added in late game to handle filtering/decontaminating large quantities of dirty water.

In the mean time, there is the dew catcher comes in to provide a more limited amount of clean drinking water with minimal processing needed. Low quantity/higher quality that is the trade off.

The goal being to make the dew catcher they want to add an optional extra instead of a forced bottleneck.

 

Again, the reason for the change was to make water a scarce resource, like you would expect in a survival game. The dew collectors were not the reason for this change they were part of the solution.

 

2 hours ago, Grue said:

 

 

Ironically, my playstyle is about doing very minimal looting. The bulk of my time is spent mining, crafting, and base building.

 

I would rather craft a new tool than go loot one.

Under the current system, if there is something you want right away, a crucible for example, spend points on it. If you rather wait try your luck at finding a working crucible or crucible schematic by looting appropriate POIs, more power to you.

 

With the proposed changes, instead of needing to learn/buy/loot a single schematic, it now appears the crafting is going to be locked behind looting a bunch of magazines. 

All that does is add more grind and I don't see how locking both the schematics and item quality behind a paywall of a magazines is going to make the game better in any appreciable way.

 

It seems you want to play a sandbox really and don't like survival. So I would suggest you use creative menue to get yourself the ability to craft whatever you need. Or get a mod that helps you play your way.

 

2 hours ago, Grue said:

 

But that is almost beside the point.

I am still a bit wary of "overhauls" because the A17 skill overhaul was a steaming pile of dog @%$# and it took them literally years to make it viable again.

To put it plainly, the value of the proposed changes does not seem to outweigh the risk that they will @%$# it up from a basic risk/reward perspective.

Once bitten, twice shy.

 

Any reason why the devs should listen to someone who thinks they are bad developers anyway? 😁

 

Seriously, I liked most of A17. If you don't, your tastes are very different than mine and the developers obviously. You can't expect the developers to make a game they don't like and instead do one especially for you. 

 

2 hours ago, Grue said:

Water is daily necessary on a survival level, by comparison using a forge is a luxury.

Your character won't die for lack of a forge.

 

You didn't get my point. I was not talking about reality, I was talking about their function in the game. And for progression in the game the forge is as important as the dew collector.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Gronal]

Does it bother anyone else how this is meant to be a dev diary but is actually just people arguing?
Would be nice to have some silence in here every now and again

[Fanatical_Meat]

I’ll say it again.

Currently water is so easy to obtain there simply is no need for it. May as well just eliminate thirst. New system will reduce clutter and at minimum put an early game cap on how much water you have.

10 minutes ago, Gronal said:

Does it bother anyone else how this is meant to be a dev diary but is actually just people arguing?
Would be nice to have some silence in here every now and again

Nope

[unholyjoe]

12 minutes ago, Gronal said:

Does it bother anyone else how this is meant to be a dev diary but is actually just people arguing?
Would be nice to have some silence in here every now and again

this time next year, you will be singing a different tune.

 

this is normal activity... just have to grin and bear it because it will always be this way.

 

wanna see something funny... go to any other game forum and you will see the same ole thing. its not just here.

 

 

[Roland]

17 hours ago, Grue said:

You know what would be real simple? Taking a jar down to a @%$#ing stream. That is simple.

 

Yes, Green Hell has dew catchers, that does not mean 7d2d needs to do it too. Even if you just "want to use this cool dew catcher model someone made", then by all means add it to the game, but it certainly doesn't make any sense to get rid of stone age concept of collecting river water to force players to use the new dew catcher, does it?

 

For one thing, Green Hell has dry seasons, 7d2d does not. And even in the dry season players could simply build near a source of water, and thus not need one. 

 

It comes down to player choice.

The way this mechanic is proposed to function takes more player choice away from the game than it adds.

 

Honestly it is not even the addition dew catchers that @%$#es me off, it is removing the concept of "things that hold water" (i.e., jars) to force me to use a dew catcher that literally outputs jars of water that makes no @%$#ing sense whatsoever.

 

Players should at the very least be able to ignore that dew catchers exist if they do not want to use them, and have them as an option in a desert biome where they logically might some have a use for it. 

 

Please stop railroading players with mechanics that should be at the very most, optional.

 

Which brings me to the skill system.

 

The current skill with experience points and collectible schematics strikes a reasonable balance, no need to waste dev time reinventing the wheel for this ridiculously convoluted magazine-based education system which forces people to waste time collecting McGuffins.

 

Players want to play in a sandbox, not a cattle chute

 

I highlighted what I believe to be your points in green and I'll answer them one at a time.

 

Point 1: Player Choice

If player choice is of interest to you then you will be pleased to know that the changes have increased player choice by a fair amount. In the past, due to having infinite water from the very start there was zero choice for how to utilize your water ever. You always had plenty to do everything. In A21 you will have to make some choices for how you utilize water. This is a very good thing.

 

As for dew collectors they are absolutely optional. You can find portable water in loot and you can purchase it from the trader. For drinking you can go to a stream or lake or even a nearby gutter and drink your fill. You can survive at a very basic level purely on what you scavenge or trade for. Now if you want the luxury and quality of life of having infinite water to be able to once again reach the point where you have enough to do whatever you want with it without needing to make tough choices, you may create a dew collector farm which will see you stocked with all the water you'll need. Its a choice....a player choice.

 

Point 2: The concept of removing containers that hold water in order to force players to use the dew collector is bad

This isn't a new concept. There are no containers for any consumable in the game. Glue, gas, stew, steak and potatoes, pie, canned food, acid, first aid kits, repair kits, and more are consumables that are depicted as being in a container and yet no container actually exists. You can't make a huge pot full of stew and then craft a stack of bowls to go scoop out stew to carry around with you and then bring back the empty bowls to scoop out more stew. You can't fill up your empty gas canisters at a pump and then pour the gas into your vehicle and then bring back the empty canisters to fill them up again. None of the consumables in the game that are depicted in your inventory as being in a container give back that empty container so that you can refill it and they never have. How have you and others possibly been able to continue playing the game without all of these empty containers to be refilled? I will tell you that however it is you have been managing to figure out glue and the rest, you will quickly adapt to water since it will be behaving the same exact way every other single consumable in the game behaves and has behaved for years and years.

 

The change is not to force players to use dew collectors. You don't have to use dew collectors technically. The change is to bring consistency to the game across the board and at the same time close the book on infinite water beginning at day one. 

 

Point 3: There's no need to waste dev time on the craft system with magazines

Water under the bridge. The feature was done months ago. Now that it is done they WILL release it to their early access players to evaluate and determine how it should be tinkered. They are extremely happy with this latest evolution of the crafting/player progression system. Just as you stated that the hybrid of spending points and collecting schematics was a good balance they will get to a great balance of skillpoints, schematics, and magazines after several months of obtaining player feedback about the system from people who have spent time playing with it instead of making a decision to scrap it from people who are just imagining worst case possibilities using incomplete knowledge and guesses.

 

Point 4: Players want to play in a Sandbox

Players can play in a sandbox still. But you have to understand that a true sandbox is a play area without rules or constraints so that the player can do whatever they desire. For this game that means you enable godmode and creative mode. Those two modes enabled make 7 Days to Die into a true sandbox experience. In its default form 7 Days to Die is not meant to be a pure sandbox. It is meant to be a game with rules, limits, and consequences. With godmode and creative mode enabled you never need water or food at all and you can build anything out of anything with anything the game has--including some dev tools not available in the default game.  You can do whatever you want. You can fly around and spawn a bunch of zombies surrounding a POI and then fly away turn off godmode and approach the POI killing all the zombies guarding it. That's just one example but the sandbox options are endless. If players truly want a sandbox it is always available to them. When they're ready to play a game that has rules and limits and choices that is always waiting for them as well.

 

[Roland]

3 hours ago, Grue said:

Have you heard the saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" or perhaps, "Measure twice, cut once"?

 

The time to correct course is before the mistake is made.

 

It is far better to give the feedback at the concept stage than to wait for them to @%$# things up then complain about it after the damage is done. By then, they will have already wasted the dev time on their new anti-features so they are more likely to fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy and run with it, than they are to correct the completely foreseeable problem(s) they should have avoided in the first place.

 

This model you espouse is completely contradictory to the whole early access model. The devs chose early access which means they release experimental features and allow players to play with them and give feedback. Feedback will be in the form of posted opinions on the internet, telemetry data they collect, videos in which they can see reactions and thought processes of players, etc.

 

They really aren't asking for our feedback at the conceptual stage. That is all done in house behind closed doors. Our role and participation is at the experimental stage. 

 

Finally, this studio gets so much flack for reinventing and overhauling features over and over again until they are happy with them. In fact, I believe you, yourself, have criticized them for reinventing features instead of moving on to new ones--- and yet here you are saying that these devs fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy. Hahaha....if there ever was a studio that doesn't seem to care about "sunk cost" it is this one. When they say "its done when its done" they mean that at all levels. They will revisit a feature as many times as they need to in order to get it to the place where they feel it is done "sunk costs" be damned. Of course that gets them criticized by those who liked earlier versions but they are willing to pay that cost as well in order to find the end states they want for each feature. You have to figure out what you believe about these devs. Either they reinvent features over and over again or they are victims of sunk cost and stubbornly never change things once they are implemented. You can't have it both ways.

 

3 hours ago, Grue said:

Ironically, my playstyle is about doing very minimal looting.

 

Your playstyle is not typical and by catering to your playerstyle the devs would be cutting out the lionshare of the community. Looting is a staple of this game and always has been. The changes in A21 do enhance scavenging and that change will positively impact the vast majority of players who do enjoy that part of the game. If you really do feel like TFP should listen to its player base then honestly you cannot deny that enhancing the looting and exploring portions of the game is them doing exactly that. You may not like it but you have to admit that "minimal looting" is not going to be the norm for the typical player of 7 Days to Die.

 

People who are obsessed with looting are going to find that A21 completely revitalizes their love of the game and we are sure to see exclamations of joy and gratitude for the new crafting magazine feature from them.

 

People who like looting will find that A21 will increase the fun of looting and their enjoyment immensely.

 

People who are ambivalent about looting are likely to actually enjoy looting in A21 and will probably intentionally loot more often.

 

People who didn't care much for looting may be pleasantly surprised. I'm not going to promise they will like looting because of A21 but there is a good possibility that some will find it enjoyable. This is even more likely for those who like crafting. Since looting will now have a purpose that aligns directly with what they want to do that may very well be the carrot they needed to enjoy looting when they never did before.

 

That leaves the people who hate looting and will never love looting and purchased this game with no intention of ever looting. These are the people that TFP should obey at the expense of all the rest when the new system is almost guaranteed to enhance their fun? The game can't appeal to everyone especially when two diametrically opposite preferences exist so someone is going to have to learn to adapt or move on.

 

I'm glad I like looting.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

38 minutes ago, Roland said:

Feedback will be in the form of posted opinions on the internet, telemetry data they collect, videos in which they can see reactions and thought processes of players, etc.

Is it possible to find out what data is being collected and will we ever be able to get any figures?That would be very interesting.
For example

Spoiler

What percentage of players played for how many hours.
How many hours in which alpha.
What is more played in solo, co-op or servers.
The average duration of one "season" of survival.
What is the most popular setting for the duration of the time of day.
What is the most popular setting for the duration of %loot.
The biome in which players spend the most time.
The most popular melee and ranged weapons.
How many billions of units of iron players have collected for all the time.😁
How many times have players died swallowing glass.☠️
Whether someone died of diarrhea.

How many times the players have lost the battle with the bear.
How many times the freaking bird has parked on the players' heads.🤬
How much time the players spent at the trader Jen.🥰
How many times have players tried to kill Rect.💩
etc

It would be interesting to collect as many numbers as possible to reach gold, I think it would be interesting)

Edited January 7, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

I highlighted what I believe to be your points in green and I'll answer them one at a time.

 

Point 1: Player Choice

If player choice is of interest to you then you will be pleased to know that the changes have increased player choice by a fair amount. In the past, due to having infinite water from the very start there was zero choice for how to utilize your water ever. You always had plenty to do everything. In A21 you will have to make some choices for how you utilize water. This is a very good thing.

 

As for dew collectors they are absolutely optional. You can find portable water in loot and you can purchase it from the trader. For drinking you can go to a stream or lake or even a nearby gutter and drink your fill. You can survive at a very basic level purely on what you scavenge or trade for. Now if you want the luxury and quality of life of having infinite water to be able to once again reach the point where you have enough to do whatever you want with it without needing to make tough choices, you may create a dew collector farm which will see you stocked with all the water you'll need. Its a choice....a player choice.

As someone who prematurely removed glass jars from the game, I can second this statement.   I have found it refreshing and fun to have to choose my limited dirty water supply between cooking, drinking, and crafting.

[zztong]

4 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

And, BTW, I think the word you're searching for is "believability", am I right?

 

Perhaps. I've used "realism" because that's how people have characterized/summarized those kinds of positions. I've not bothered to quibble over the wording. Indeed, the only decision I recall quibbling over with any intensity has been carrying water away from a source, which I originally characterized as "weird." I still think it is weird. Probably playable, probably enjoyable, but weird.

[Zombiepoptard]

19 hours ago, Grue said:

You know what would be real simple? Taking a jar down to a @%$#ing stream. That is simple.

 

Yes, Green Hell has dew catchers, that does not mean 7d2d needs to do it too. Even if you just "want to use this cool dew catcher model someone made", then by all means add it to the game, but it certainly doesn't make any sense to get rid of stone age concept of collecting river water to force players to use the new dew catcher, does it?

 

For one thing, Green Hell has dry seasons, 7d2d does not. And even in the dry season players could simply build near a source of water, and thus not need one. 

 

It comes down to player choice.

The way this mechanic is proposed to function takes more player choice away from the game than it adds.

 

Honestly it is not even the addition dew catchers that @%$#es me off, it is removing the concept of "things that hold water" (i.e., jars) to force me to use a dew catcher that literally outputs jars of water that makes no @%$#ing sense whatsoever.

 

Players should at the very least be able to ignore that dew catchers exist if they do not want to use them, and have them as an option in a desert biome where they logically might some have a use for it. 

 

Please stop railroading players with mechanics that should be at the very most, optional.

 

Which brings me to the skill system.

 

The current skill with experience points and collectible schematics strikes a reasonable balance, no need to waste dev time reinventing the wheel for this ridiculously convoluted magazine-based education system which forces people to waste time collecting McGuffins.

 

Players want to play in a sandbox, not a cattle chute

 

I agree with Grue. 

 

There is nothing substantial to be excited for alpha 21 and I even think this update will have a net negative. 

 

The dew collector is probably a miss used concept from another game. Why change something that didn't need to be changed into some convoluted throw away idea. 

Skill Trees are another miss used concept implemented without any insight on what a skill tree is actually used for. This isn't Borderlands were they have 60 combat related perks on one character and the only way to balance that many perks is to separate it into multiple branches. 7 days to dies skill system is egregiously miss placed and under cooked with the learn by looting system making it even worse. The reason why fallout doesn't have a skill tree is something worth pondering for the developer who's responsible. 

 

They made the learn by looting change because they wanted to fabricate some shiny things with out actually creating something new and desirable. In pursuit of this easy to develop gimmicky reward system they had to sacrifice the progression system and some of the sandbox elements.

 

7 days to die fans are here for a sandbox experience. For me I love the quests and traders for something extra to the open ended sandbox experience. No need to swim upstream with all these weird system that flip sandbox elements. Instead you could put in features that lean into it. You can make exploring pois more like an immersive sim which will flip a more routine quest into a sandboxy diverse experience. People could choose how they want to build there character with a more open ended skill system to have a more sandbox leveling experience. It would only be restricted to by a skill cap. I fill like you guys are actively swimming upstream trying to make this game something that it's not instead of working around it's strengths.  

 

 

 

[Zombiepoptard]

Games like Borderlands is what skill trees are for. Huge amounts of combat related perks separated for balance reasons. 7 days to die has swing faster and swing harder. I spit on that "perk tree" it's pathetic. The reason they give for why the perk tree is in the game is that it provides "hard choices". WHAT CHOICES!? What build choices do you think we have?? No one uses a skill tree system like the fun pimps for a reason. If you don't have enough combat related skill than a skill tree just isn't for your game. There is choices with in normal skill trees because they have so many skills that could change the way you play. It's about diversity not "hard choices"/ @%$# choices. 

[bdubyah]

22 minutes ago, Zombiepoptard said:

Why change something that didn't need to be changed into some convoluted throw away idea. 

Because it needed to be changed. TFP obviously felt the same.

 

23 minutes ago, Zombiepoptard said:

There is nothing substantial to be excited for alpha 21 and I even think this update will have a net negative.

I mean, water physics finally not being a pile of poop is enough for me. And not sure how stuff being fixed, systems being tweaked, and some other new things(like tons of new assets) can be a negative. You guys are just doom and gloom or nothing.

[playlessNamer]

will bandits arrive 2023?

[Zombiepoptard]

17 minutes ago, playlessNamer said:

will bandits arrive 2023?

no

[Chris Lenga]

1 hour ago, bdubyah said:

Because it needed to be changed. TFP obviously felt the same.

 

I mean, water physics finally not being a pile of poop is enough for me. And not sure how stuff being fixed, systems being tweaked, and some other new things(like tons of new assets) can be a negative. You guys are just doom and gloom or nothing.

Water physics should have been fixed years ago. In fact, all of this should have honestly. 

[mstdv inc]

1 hour ago, Zombiepoptard said:

Games like Borderlands is what skill trees are for. Huge amounts of combat related perks separated for balance reasons. 7 days to die has swing faster and swing harder. I spit on that "perk tree" it's pathetic. The reason they give for why the perk tree is in the game is that it provides "hard choices". WHAT CHOICES!? What build choices do you think we have?? No one uses a skill tree system like the fun pimps for a reason. If you don't have enough combat related skill than a skill tree just isn't for your game. There is choices with in normal skill trees because they have so many skills that could change the way you play. It's about diversity not "hard choices"/ @%$# choices.

Spoiler

In any game, players sooner or later come to the most effective development scheme and begin to ignore everything else.The most interesting thing was the way to this most effective development while you are trying different options.After reaching it, it is difficult to force yourself to invest points in weaker perks.Players deprive themselves of diversity.

53 minutes ago, playlessNamer said:

will bandits arrive 2023?

The bandits sent the following message:
 

Spoiler

"We really want to see you all, but now we are building a base, choosing clothes and accessories for our boss, he should look chic, trying different equipment options, learning to overcome obstacles and better navigate the terrain.We need to wait a little longer for our meeting.But when that happens, we'll kick your ass! 😈

With love, bandits 😘
"

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by mstdv inc (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

Just as you stated that the hybrid of spending points and collecting schematics was a good balance they will get to a great balance of skillpoints, schematics, and magazines after several months of obtaining player feedback about the system from people who have spent time playing with it instead of making a decision to scrap it from people who are just imagining worst case possibilities using incomplete knowledge and guesses.

And that's the part where I'm skeptical. There are players who only loot what they need, and there are players who only loot and do nothing else and then there are the players somewhere in between. One size fits all won't work but something like a dynamic system that adapts to the player would be too much of a development effort. So it's probably going to come down balancing it for the group they think have the most players and ignore the rest.

 

 

 

 

[meilodasreh]

I wouldn't say "ignore" the rest.

In any roleplay game (character development, collecting gear/items) there is always some builds that are superior to others, and hardcore players only choose those.

While the big majority of more casual players does build their character different (and totally inefficient/weak if you ask a hardcore player),

but  nevertheless have fun playing too...not even being aware they are "inefficient", and they themselves wouldn't call it like that anyway.

[maxousara]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

 

I highlighted what I believe to be your points in green and I'll answer them one at a time.

 

Point 1: Player Choice

If player choice is of interest to you then you will be pleased to know that the changes have increased player choice by a fair amount. In the past, due to having infinite water from the very start there was zero choice for how to utilize your water ever. You always had plenty to do everything. In A21 you will have to make some choices for how you utilize water. This is a very good thing.

 

As for dew collectors they are absolutely optional. You can find portable water in loot and you can purchase it from the trader. For drinking you can go to a stream or lake or even a nearby gutter and drink your fill. You can survive at a very basic level purely on what you scavenge or trade for. Now if you want the luxury and quality of life of having infinite water to be able to once again reach the point where you have enough to do whatever you want with it without needing to make tough choices, you may create a dew collector farm which will see you stocked with all the water you'll need. Its a choice....a player choice.

 

Point 2: The concept of removing containers that hold water in order to force players to use the dew collector is bad

This isn't a new concept. There are no containers for any consumable in the game. Glue, gas, stew, steak and potatoes, pie, canned food, acid, first aid kits, repair kits, and more are consumables that are depicted as being in a container and yet no container actually exists. You can't make a huge pot full of stew and then craft a stack of bowls to go scoop out stew to carry around with you and then bring back the empty bowls to scoop out more stew. You can't fill up your empty gas canisters at a pump and then pour the gas into your vehicle and then bring back the empty canisters to fill them up again. None of the consumables in the game that are depicted in your inventory as being in a container give back that empty container so that you can refill it and they never have. How have you and others possibly been able to continue playing the game without all of these empty containers to be refilled? I will tell you that however it is you have been managing to figure out glue and the rest, you will quickly adapt to water since it will be behaving the same exact way every other single consumable in the game behaves and has behaved for years and years.

 

The change is not to force players to use dew collectors. You don't have to use dew collectors technically. The change is to bring consistency to the game across the board and at the same time close the book on infinite water beginning at day one. 

 

Point 3: There's no need to waste dev time on the craft system with magazines

Water under the bridge. The feature was done months ago. Now that it is done they WILL release it to their early access players to evaluate and determine how it should be tinkered. They are extremely happy with this latest evolution of the crafting/player progression system. Just as you stated that the hybrid of spending points and collecting schematics was a good balance they will get to a great balance of skillpoints, schematics, and magazines after several months of obtaining player feedback about the system from people who have spent time playing with it instead of making a decision to scrap it from people who are just imagining worst case possibilities using incomplete knowledge and guesses.

 

Point 4: Players want to play in a Sandbox

Players can play in a sandbox still. But you have to understand that a true sandbox is a play area without rules or constraints so that the player can do whatever they desire. For this game that means you enable godmode and creative mode. Those two modes enabled make 7 Days to Die into a true sandbox experience. In its default form 7 Days to Die is not meant to be a pure sandbox. It is meant to be a game with rules, limits, and consequences. With godmode and creative mode enabled you never need water or food at all and you can build anything out of anything with anything the game has--including some dev tools not available in the default game.  You can do whatever you want. You can fly around and spawn a bunch of zombies surrounding a POI and then fly away turn off godmode and approach the POI killing all the zombies guarding it. That's just one example but the sandbox options are endless. If players truly want a sandbox it is always available to them. When they're ready to play a game that has rules and limits and choices that is always waiting for them as well.

 

Your answers is good and complete but. People always found a reason for be angry and complain about the game. You have talk about play sandbox in creative mode but players would like play sandbox BUT NOT creative mode. People would like play in survival but have the choice and dont care if its logic or not they just need their sandbox and dont care about the survival aspect. Me too i Will give an exemple. I would like play survival but its not sandbox i need to eat and drink i dont have the choice to eat and drink its not sandbox. This kind of @^#%^ logic

2 hours ago, Zombiepoptard said:

no

Since alpha 17 we ears bandits is coming soon and now THEY COMING SOON

[bdubyah]

2 hours ago, Chris Lenga said:

Water physics should have been fixed years ago. In fact, all of this should have honestly. 

They've had some turnover on the team, and it seems programmer-wise they are still a smallish group. Could it have been fixed sooner? Sure. But it's going to be fixed now, so maybe just appreciate that instead of making an account just to whine?

 

I reeeaallly hope at some point they do some kind of documentary about the development of the game. I'd love to hear all the history/hurdles the game has been through.

[RipClaw]

29 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

I wouldn't say "ignore" the rest.

In any roleplay game (character development, collecting gear/items) there is always some builds that are superior to others, and hardcore players only choose those.

While the big majority of more casual players does build their character different (and totally inefficient/weak if you ask a hardcore player),

but  nevertheless have fun playing too...not even being aware they are "inefficient", and they themselves wouldn't call it like that anyway.

I was thinking here more in the way how progress feels and not how efficient or inefficient it is. The player who loots 24/7 will rush through the magazines in no time. For the player who only loots the bare minimum, it will probably feel like they are barely making any progress. Only for those for whom it is balanced will it feel like the progress is adequate.

 

As I understand it, the goal is that what you can loot, what you can craft, and what you can buy are at about the same level. To achieve that you need to balance gamestage, lootstage and the droprate of the magazines.

Edited January 7, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[WarWren]

For me skill trees are for roleplaying. Learn by looting means I won't be handicapped for choosing the role I like. A 21 fixes a lot for me.

[Roland]

6 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

Is it possible to find out what data is being collected and will we ever be able to get any figures?That would be very interesting.
For example

  Reveal hidden contents

What percentage of players played for how many hours.
How many hours in which alpha.
What is more played in solo, co-op or servers.
The average duration of one "season" of survival.
What is the most popular setting for the duration of the time of day.
What is the most popular setting for the duration of %loot.
The biome in which players spend the most time.
The most popular melee and ranged weapons.
How many billions of units of iron players have collected for all the time.😁
How many times have players died swallowing glass.☠️
Whether someone died of diarrhea.

How many times the players have lost the battle with the bear.
How many times the freaking bird has parked on the players' heads.🤬
How much time the players spent at the trader Jen.🥰
How many times have players tried to kill Rect.💩
etc

It would be interesting to collect as many numbers as possible to reach gold, I think it would be interesting)

 

Most likely not. It is considered private information even though it is viewed in aggragate and not tied to any individual person. So it will probably not ever be released for public consumption. But....ask Rick during a future dev stream. You never know what he'll be willing to share...lol

[Zombiepoptard]

2 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

In any game, players sooner or later come to the most effective development scheme and begin to ignore everything else.The most interesting thing was the way to this most effective development while you are trying different options.After reaching it, it is difficult to force yourself to invest points in weaker perks. Players deprive themselves of diversity.

 

Yes metas exist but I don't think this game can even have a meta. You would need a more skills that change passive buffs to the character. Also I don't know how well versed you are on the topic of rpg because you'd know in a lot of rpgs there is more than one meta. This game is much to light on rpg aspects to worry about that happening. This game doesn't need a skill tree and shouldn't have a skill tree. It's better off by limiting players on how many points they can put into there character. I feel like there is only one choice. What weapon do I want to use and sometimes I have to choose shotgun every time because I like farming the other skills in the tree are good to so I'm stuck having the game make a lot of choices for me. Life skills roped in with combat skill is abhorrently stupid.