Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, Howlune said:

While I wasn't initially a fan of the idea of taking away glass jars, I'm starting to agree with this change. It was a simple case of "oh look, they're taking another thing away and requiring you to think even less*... but I never really thought about the fact a player could go to any water source and instantly get 125 bottles of murky water and basically be set for a very long time with little to no effort. Unfortunately, it still feels as though Food and Water is of little importance to most players as killing yourself and respawning instantly heals all injuries, fills all meters, and just about completely renews you at the cost of a pretty small amount of time wasted. I can understand how difficult it is to balance making survival mechanics matter while not making the game frustrating or punishing enough for players to not want to play... but deaths seem pretty inconsequential when they basically rewind all those injuries, infection, the food and water loss, etc.

 

Something I admired about the wellness system back in the day is on top of you being alive, you had something you had to keep a proper balance of lest you die and lose it. I am not saying wellness was better, it had its pitfalls (like getting to a point you basically can't die, having so much food that gave the most wellness, etc). I get the idea of respawning is like waking up from a bad dream, it's a cool concept... but it feels like players will get a broken leg and not have a splint readily available, so they opt to "wake themselves up again" instead.

That’s why I like the setting Lose All On Death. It’s a fair trade to lose your entire inventory for gaining back health, fullness, hydration, and healing of all debuffs. It also brings a bit of “degradation” into the game since your gear goes poof if you die. Plus there’s the benefit of not having to waste time running back for your backpack. 
 

I do agree that there is a real problem with death erasing status effects. It’s been brought up a lot internally and there’s been talk about creating a setting for persistent stats through respawn but it just hasn’t reached the priority list yet. 

[Roland]

8 hours ago, Jugom said:

Let them refill empty jars, but only from one of those big blue canisters that will have to be placed inside your LCB area and have to be manually filled with buckets.
But the bucket disappears after each use. 😂
 

It might not be a bad idea to allow players to use a bucket of water with the dew collector to instantly fill it if they don’t want to wait for the timer. The bucket would be consumed and the water block used to fill the bucket could also be used up. For those suffering in their thinky things for not being able to transport water from a water source to their base to build up their water supply, this could be a soothe and a comfort. 
 

Could possibly be a modded by adding a fuel slot to the dew collector in which you place a bucket of water and once it is consumed the dew collector is full. 

[NekoPawtato]

50 minutes ago, Howlune said:

While I wasn't initially a fan of the idea of taking away glass jars, I'm starting to agree with this change. It was a simple case of "oh look, they're taking another thing away and requiring you to think even less*... but I never really thought about the fact a player could go to any water source and instantly get 125 bottles of murky water and basically be set for a very long time with little to no effort. Unfortunately, it still feels as though Food and Water is of little importance to most players as killing yourself and respawning instantly heals all injuries, fills all meters, and just about completely renews you at the cost of a pretty small amount of time wasted. I can understand how difficult it is to balance making survival mechanics matter while not making the game frustrating or punishing enough for players to not want to play... but deaths seem pretty inconsequential when they basically rewind all those injuries, infection, the food and water loss, etc.

 

Something I admired about the wellness system back in the day is on top of you being alive, you had something you had to keep a proper balance of lest you die and lose it. I am not saying wellness was better, it had its pitfalls (like getting to a point you basically can't die, having so much food that gave the most wellness, etc). I get the idea of respawning is like waking up from a bad dream, it's a cool concept... but it feels like players will get a broken leg and not have a splint readily available, so they opt to "wake themselves up again" instead.

Maybe randomly lose crafting skill points in a random category? So you have to find the magazine and re-read. It would also mean they still hold value in keeping even if you hit max crafting skill for that category

Or once factions get implemented you lose some faction points with whichever side you are on

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Howlune said:

I get the idea of respawning is like waking up from a bad dream, it's a cool concept... but it feels like players will get a broken leg and not have a splint readily available, so they opt to "wake themselves up again" instead.

Yes, there are players who simply commit suicide to heal their leg, but I wouldn't use them as a benchmark. I think most players avoid dying.

 

 

[BFT2020]

19 hours ago, bachgaman said:

How about avoiding deaths with skills rather than exploits? I am sure that I would have died more than once because of this, if this idea was realized. But such a decision would encourage players to play harder, rather than abuse poorly developed mechanics. Therefore, the game would be more interesting

 

You call it an exploit, however, it is a game mechanic.  But hey I am game, I would stop placing a block down to hop over a fence while trying to get away from a pack of zombie dogs if the  game would allow me to pull myself over the fence like I can do in real life, or climb a tree.  But since I can't do either, I have to use the tools available to me which includes dropping a frame block down to hop over that fence.  I also play permadeath on most of my playthroughs so dying to "not exploit the game to throw down a frame to hop a fence" really doesn't appeal to me for the reasons stated above.

 

Do I place hatches in doors in POIs as I am looting them?  No I don't do that.  Do I make bases where the zombies think they have a path to me but can't because of physics?  No I always give them a path to me.  Do I think the developers should remove the option of hatches in POIs to force players from using them?  No I don't.  Just because I don't use them, does not mean that everyone else should be under the same limitation.  I like the fact that the developers are working to finish this game to their vision, but leaving it open to different ways that we the players can play it (or mod it).

 

And we all play the game differently.  Some use CM to get stuff early on or use easier settings while others max out the difficulty of the game via the in-game options.  Others mod the game to get the tweaks they want to when they play.  Removing a game mechanic just to "encourage players to play harder" is just one way to remove options for others.  If you don't like using frame blocks, there is nothing in the game preventing you from imposing that limit to yourself.

[bachgaman]

10 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

You call it an exploit, however, it is a game mechanic.  But hey I am game, I would stop placing a block down to hop over a fence while trying to get away from a pack of zombie dogs if the  game would allow me to pull myself over the fence like I can do in real life, or climb a tree.  But since I can't do either, I have to use the tools available to me which includes dropping a frame block down to hop over that fence.  I also play permadeath on most of my playthroughs so dying to "not exploit the game to throw down a frame to hop a fence" really doesn't appeal to me for the reasons stated above.

 

Do I place hatches in doors in POIs as I am looting them?  No I don't do that.  Do I make bases where the zombies think they have a path to me but can't because of physics?  No I always give them a path to me.  Do I think the developers should remove the option of hatches in POIs to force players from using them?  No I don't.  Just because I don't use them, does not mean that everyone else should be under the same limitation.  I like the fact that the developers are working to finish this game to their vision, but leaving it open to different ways that we the players can play it (or mod it).

 

And we all play the game differently.  Some use CM to get stuff early on or use easier settings while others max out the difficulty of the game via the in-game options.  Others mod the game to get the tweaks they want to when they play.  Removing a game mechanic just to "encourage players to play harder" is just one way to remove options for others.  If you don't like using frame blocks, there is nothing in the game preventing you from imposing that limit to yourself.

Great post based on a false premise. I didn't suggest to remove any game mechanics just for "encourage players to play harder". I suggested to improve the existing one. Check my first post https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28129-alpha-21-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=505171

 

The debate over the limits that players should impose on themselves is endless and pointless. I believe that all these add-ons that are in your head are crutches, not a feature of the game, and the less we need them, the better for the gameplay. Your opinion is the opposite. We won't be able to reach a consensus.

[Roland]

48 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

We won't be able to reach a consensus.

We sure couldn’t the last time this topic came up nor the time before that nor the time before that…

[Javabean867]

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Great post based on a false premise. I didn't suggest to remove any game mechanics just for "encourage players to play harder". I suggested to improve the existing one. Check my first post https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28129-alpha-21-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=505171

 

The debate over the limits that players should impose on themselves is endless and pointless. I believe that all these add-ons that are in your head are crutches, not a feature of the game, and the less we need them, the better for the gameplay. Your opinion is the opposite. We won't be able to reach a consensus.

it sounds like a mod situation, that way you can play the way you like to.  You'd probably like the undead legacy mod, because it makes frames incredibly expensive to use.  I've been watching JaWoodle's series on it, and its been interesting.  Not interesting enough for me to play though.

Otherwise you are suggesting the modification of a feature to suit the minority of people who find that feature annoying or immersion breaking.
 

[Doomofman]

35 minutes ago, Roland said:

We sure couldn’t the last time this topic came up nor the time before that nor the time before that…

 

So you've come to a consensus that there's no consensus

[bachgaman]

2 hours ago, Javabean867 said:

it sounds like a mod situation, that way you can play the way you like to.  You'd probably like the undead legacy mod, because it makes frames incredibly expensive to use.  I've been watching JaWoodle's series on it, and its been interesting.  Not interesting enough for me to play though.

Otherwise you are suggesting the modification of a feature to suit the minority of people who find that feature annoying or immersion breaking.
 

I know about the UL mod, I love it, I consider it the best among all the mods I know. But there is no such mechanics. In UL, as in vanilla, blocks and doors are repaired instantly with one click of the mouse  And if a wall of your house collapses, you can still install a new one in a split second.

 

In early game with UL mod, there really is a problem with frames, but my thought is generally very loosely related to nerdpoling, or rather indirectly. The main speech is about the instant repair of doors and blocks and the instant installation of new blocks to replace those destroyed during the sieges of BM, etc.

[STiM_Desario]

How about bringing wellness back but tying it to your level, so wellness could never snowball 

[Old Crow]

Oh the note of further trader specialization, does this mean traders will actually feel specialized now? I know Rekt was supposed to specialize in seeds starting in A20, but he never seems to have any regardless of my Better Barter levels. Other trader's focii seem fairly lackluster as well - Jen's medical focus for example seems to only result in her MAYBE having ONE extra first aid item.

[meganoth]

8 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

Oh the note of further trader specialization, does this mean traders will actually feel specialized now? I know Rekt was supposed to specialize in seeds starting in A20, but he never seems to have any regardless of my Better Barter levels. Other trader's focii seem fairly lackluster as well - Jen's medical focus for example seems to only result in her MAYBE having ONE extra first aid item.

 

Maybe not seeds but Rekt has a lot more fruits and vegetables on display in A20

[Old Crow]

3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Maybe not seeds but Rekt has a lot more fruits and vegetables on display in A20

I will go back and check that. I might be wrong but I remember it being said Rekt would have a focus on seeds in A20.

[Old Crow]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:25 AM, Gamida said:

Once. Long, long ago. I was trying a turret. I had placed it and was in middle of setting up the angle I wanted it to fire. As I was turning it I suddenly saw myself in the camera. Que in stupidity.

I fired. I was dead.

Yes, at one time at least you could fire a turret while aiming it.

You still can. Just don't fire at yourself. XD

[falloutcloud]

9 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Yes, there are players who simply commit suicide to heal their leg, but I wouldn't use them as a benchmark. I think most players avoid dying.

 

 

I have gotten into the habit of restarting to a new game on death. It changes how I play a bit but just makes those night missions even more fun. Except for the time I fell off a skyscraper.... I was upset about that one.

[Aldranon]

1 hour ago, falloutcloud said:

I have gotten into the habit of restarting to a new game on death. It changes how I play a bit but just makes those night missions even more fun. Except for the time I fell off a skyscraper.... I was upset about that one.

Playing "Dead-is-Dead" is the only way to play a survival game IMO.  Because, well, you're trying to survive! 

Of course, I do understand not doing that after spending 5 weeks building an epic "fortress of doom" to then hit the wrong mouse key and fall to your characters death.  (Looking at you, gyrocopter..)

[geengaween]

On 4/1/2022 at 10:04 PM, Survager said:

I hope the bandits will sit by the fire, play the guitar, tell stories about zombies and jokes )

 

Cheeki breeki

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, Aldranon said:

Playing "Dead-is-Dead" is the only way to play a survival game IMO.  Because, well, you're trying to survive! 

Of course, I do understand not doing that after spending 5 weeks building an epic "fortress of doom" to then hit the wrong mouse key and fall to your characters death.  (Looking at you, gyrocopter..)

 

Would be great if there was an option to respawn you on the map as a new character, level 1, map shroud/waypoints reset, etc..  That way, you can choose to play the same map, and even reclaim your past survivor's base, loot, etc. if you came upon it.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Would be great if there was an option to respawn you on the map as a new character, level 1, map shroud/waypoints reset, etc..  That way, you can choose to play the same map, and even reclaim your past survivor's base, loot, etc. if you came upon it.

I... kind of like this idea.

 

[wolfbain5]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Would be great if there was an option to respawn you on the map as a new character, level 1, map shroud/waypoints reset, etc..  That way, you can choose to play the same map, and even reclaim your past survivor's base, loot, etc. if you came upon it.

i would +1 this idea, but only if your dead character is now a super zombie carrying that loot. not just a grave/bag

[sillls]

Deleted. Problem resolved. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by sillls (see edit history)

[Roland]

37 minutes ago, sillls said:

Really hoping that the Devs fix the shade, it's too dark. 

I could be in the middle of the day, sunshine but once you walk into shade it suddenly feels like nighttime. It's really dark and you can't really see anything. 

Im not sure what you mean. Are you talking about walking under a tree or going inside a POI where the windows are all barricaded and there are not any light sources?  If the former. I haven’t seen that, myself, and if the latter, it’s intended for you to either use a head lamp, a flashlight, or break open the windows to let light in, or stumble around in the dark. 

 

Perhaps your brightness setting is too low for your preferences?  I usually turn mine down to 15% so that dark areas and nighttime are actually dark. You say that shade is like nighttime but there have been a lot of posts that nighttime, itself, is too bright at default brightness levels for a lot of people and that we can see too far and too well in the dark. 

What’s your brightness level set at and what exactly are you meaning by walking into shaded areas? What shadow setting are you using?

 

 

[NekoPawtato]

7 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Would be great if there was an option to respawn you on the map as a new character, level 1, map shroud/waypoints reset, etc..  That way, you can choose to play the same map, and even reclaim your past survivor's base, loot, etc. if you came upon it.

Could you technically do that today by just deleting your character profile/save for that map? (Not sure how it will treat doors you placed previously tho)

 

edit: oh right I guess that would be hard to do if you're on a multiplayer server x:

Edited November 12, 2022 by NekoPawtato (see edit history)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, sillls said:

Really hoping that the Devs fix the shade, it's too dark. 

I could be in the middle of the day, sunshine but once you walk into shade it suddenly feels like nighttime. It's really dark and you can't really see anything. 

 

If you have problems with too dark places just turn off shadows completely, that helps with FPS too.

 

I turned of shadows myself because I was constantly switching between headlamp on, headlamp off, headlamp on, headlamp off. ...