Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Matt115]

10 minutes ago, schwanz9000 said:

Where do we get the milk?
 

Cows are too slow and got eaten by all the zombies.
We have boars.
Everyone would want to ride the horses and we just don't have the bandwidth to add that right now.
Animal Husbandry is not within the scope of this game.
 

We have several ideas for this, but not working on it yet.
 

We currently have over 630 POI's.
We do have a train station in one of the RWG tiles.
The airport has been a topic for a VERY long time. We'll see what shakes out later down the road, but don't get your hopes up.
 

We have nearly 100 abandoned or remnant POI's that are not quest-able. That doesn't even include all of the POI parts or RWG tiles that are fully explorable.

Btw do you planning guys new zombie types?

 

[Roland]

28 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

but the "balance" (there you go jost) could have been something different than weirdly removing jars. 

It could have been but as @schwanz9000 stated, this change does bring consistency to the universe. No other substance in a container returns the empty container. Only canned food and drink did. Now those two exceptions work the same way as the rest and are no longer exceptions. 
 

Use oil —> no empty oil can returns and you can’t craft an empty oil can. 

Use gas —> no empty gas can returns and you can’t craft an empty gas can. 

Use stew —> no empty bowl returns and you can’t craft an empty bowl. 
Use acid —> no empty bottle returns and you can’t craft an empty acid bottle

There was never four pages devoted to the weirdness of those things and people have always just accepted it. Players new to A21 will most likely accept drinks and food not returning an empty container as well. It’s just us who need to adapt and it doesn’t take long at all. Once I accepted that empty jars were out of the game I no longer thought about it. 
 

Besides….when this game originally started you did not get your jar returned. There were lots of jokes and memes posted about “where do the jars go?!?”  So this isn’t even a new change. It is reverting the game back to its classic roots before console versions started influencing everything. I guess not being able to craft an empty bottle is new though. So half classic half progressive. 

[schwanz9000]

56 minutes ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

@faatal @schwanz9000 I sort of remember @madmole saying he wants to bring back the old school “Horde Mode” of have/build a base, few minutes to go out and loot them a nightly horde. Basically a game mode mirroring much earlier Alphas. Any update on that?

Sorry. No new news here.

[Blake_]

11 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

The dew collector is not the only way to get jars of water. Do you guys not quest or loot POI's? There is plenty of murky water out there to be found.

I do like everything that has been done to water. But, what about food? I have a few questions that you might be able to answer, both watery and filling ones:

 

1. How much more expensive are drinks now in the vending machines/traders?

 

2. Are there plans for nerfing food on wheels on the snow biome ?

The reason for the question is this:

 

Chickens and rabbits from the forest are fair game, as they can be a bit tough to find and capture, but what about the HUGE amount of food in the snow biome? Predators (cougars/bears) are big targets, easy to exploit (they go straight towards you when called, killable at day 1 with  around 50-100 stone arrows and a 3x6x3 wooden tower,  fact that gets almost instantaneous with firearms) and give tons of meat. The snow biome feels like a butcher's shop. A white rabbit could do for most of the territory, honestly lol. I do hate those agile rabbits, but they are rewarding to kill.

 

3. Can we pick up the dew collector like any other work station? 

 

4. What is the capacity of the Dew Collector? (How many units of water can it hold?)

 

Thanks in advance.

[schwanz9000]

20 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

1. How much more expensive are drinks now in the vending machines/traders?

Vending machines now match the prices of traders. Just remember that you can't barter with a machine.
 

20 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

2. Are there plans for nerfing food on wheels on the snow biome ?

The reason for the question is this:

The frequency of animals in the snow biome has been reduced.
 

20 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

3. Can we pick up the dew collector like any other work station? 

Yup!
 

20 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

4. What is the capacity of the Dew Collector? (How many units of water can it hold?)

Three

[maxousara]

How dew collector works and how many inside ??

[Blake_]

@Roland have you tested water survival? If so, How does it feel for you in early-mid game? (Well, mid game is a bit of a stretch for testing in a flash, but I'm curious still).

[Westyle]

I understand the purpose behind adding loot stages, but I hope in the future there can be some sort of option to choose between having loot stage or fully random loot (well, random in that it still makes sense based on location and difficulty). Part of the thrill for me in games like this never knowing what you're going to find when looting. Sometimes you get lucky and find a level 3 SMG on day 1, sometimes you're stuck with basic melee for a while.

[UnDeadPuff]

RNG  based learning system instead of a time tested "level and invest points" system.
Weird disappearing jars (do they go into some reality black hole?)

Weird inability to take water from a source and place inside a container or another, then boil for usage - did our knowledge of such a basic thing also go away into the same hole as the jars?

Can't melt snow anymore despite this being very much a real thing. Guess we also forgot how to that or lost it in that reality black hole.

All these water changes feel like how in zomboid you cannot use your knowledge and tools to cut barrels open to make rain barrels, and makes about as much sense.

 

Overall this feels like very much like artificially increasing difficulty with nonsensical changes to appease the people complaining they have nothing to do after mid game.

[FranticDan]

2 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

The frequency of animals in the snow biome has been reduced.

I think ALL animals should give half (rounded up) the meat they do in A20.
And Grace should give rotting meat and not fresh! (She's radiated!)
This will make 'The Huntsman' a more tempting perk to take.

My argument:
- The POI that contains Grace is the most ridiculously OP location. Every 7 days (default settings) you can accumulate ~3 full stacks of fresh meat (That never spoils) 
- Plus on top of all of the farms added in A20, there are animals galore!

[Callum123456789]

I have a question guys in alpha 21 is the lootstage requirement for each tech tier being increased? Because as of right now its 3x faster to just go into the wasteland and loot a lvl 6 tac assault rifle at lvl 50 rather than craft one same goes with a lot of stuff 

[FranticDan]

2 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

As long as your balancing weapons from traders and not weapons from loot this will be fine

I think trader quest rewards should be gun parts (related to the tier, (Example: T2=3 parts, T3=4 parts, T4=5 parts, T5=6 parts) instead of a complete gun, so you have to craft your own at the current level of your character progression
This will likely help the pipe guns be used for a few days longer

[BFT2020]

23 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:

Go punch a window or smelt some sand.

 

This was probably my favorite answer so far to the Dew Collectors debate.

 

Sometimes people get so focused at what is being removed that they forget what is still there.

 

We also need to remember that while jars are being removed and dew collectors added, that additional changes are being made that will change how these new changes will affect the game - like now being able to drink from a water source nearby and changes to loot drop chances.

[fallenbox]

Nice i can't wait to mod back into the game yet another element removed by the update

[Gamida]

10 hours ago, Roland said:

Sorry but I’m on team Milkshake!

 

plus it would be hilarious and right in line with Pimp humor for Big Mama to have a 100% chance of having a jar of milk in any loot bag she drops… 😂

 

Nobody asked for Big Mama to not drop milk!!!

 

Isn't Big Mamas theme song "Milkshake"

"My milkshake bring all the boys to the game"

 

 

Here is one thing I mentioned long ago that I thought needed a change in game but would probably not be popular.

Mixers. I could never figure out why it needed an engine in the recipe but never ever used gas as fuel. I think that would have

a small impact on game procession that would be more realistic as it should slow down concrete production. At least until gas production was started.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Gamida (see edit history)

[NekoPawtato]

Regarding skills revamp, in A20 you could perk into two different skills (physician or engineering) to unlock chemistry station. 

 

Does that mean in A21 only way would be forge ahead series?

 

Follow up question, does perking into both skills give even more chance of finding that series compared to only perking into one or the other? 

Edited July 26, 2022 by NekoPawtato (see edit history)

[Roland]

9 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

Are you saying guns will be more rare in A21 than they are in A20?

I was responding to someone who was saying that in A20 it is easy to get a second or third tier gun in the first couple days. That seems to be much more rare in A21. The first two days of free weather protection has been removed so exploiting that to get an easy higher lootstage from the more difficult biomes is not going to be as simple as it has been. 
 

Trader rewards are more focused on magazine acquisition now. I haven’t even been offered a weapon yet but I’ve only made it to tier two quests before having to start over. 
 

1 hour ago, fallenbox said:

Nice i can't wait to mod back into the game yet another element removed by the update

 

You’re welcome. We’ve made such things easy for you after all. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[Trankitas]

For the looks of it, Water purifier helmet mod will be great in A21, can't wait to be a thirsty boy.

[canadianbluebeer]

Is the Purified Water recipe going away then?

[Red Eagle LXIX]

After reading all of this, I am not much bothered by the water change myself. 

My biggest complaint is the use of Dew Collectors instead of making it a more multi-staged process that would be a bit more realistic.

Dew and rain water collection in a fallout zone is a bad idea due to the pickup of micro particles that have been irradiated (as would drinking from any water source open to the air).  Such water still needs to be treated.

 

One could build a clay earth filter to clear out the radioactive fallout and micro particulates from the water.  These are very simple to make and can be made with primitive materials (cloth, clay, earth, pipe).

Such a filter can clear about 2-3 quarts of water per hour and is usually good for about 40-50 quarts of water before you need to construct a new one due to the build up of the radioactive materials.

Such filtered water would then still need to be boiled to clear any microorganisms.

 

Overall though, based on the above realities vs game universe, getting 3 water per day from a device that never breaks and just pretending the above process was done will be an easy suspension of disbelief IMO.  Might need to up tweak the values if going for more realism.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Red Eagle LXIX (see edit history)

[DEADFACE]

I'd like to see a deadzone around the dew collector so that they cannot just be crammed into a cluster.

[Roland]

14 hours ago, maxousara said:

How dew collector works and how many inside ??

 

You unlock the recipe by reading Forge Ahead magazines (2 or 3 if I remember correctly)

You craft it and place it somewhere with open sky above it.

It automatically starts making water until at some point there will be a jar of clean water.

It will do this three times and then stop until you remove the water.

Then it will begin again.

[Callum123456789]

7 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

You unlock the recipe by reading Forge Ahead magazines (2 or 3 if I remember correctly)

You craft it and place it somewhere with open sky above it.

It automatically starts making water until at some point there will be a jar of clean water.

It will do this three times and then stop until you remove the water.

Then it will begin again.

This sounds about 30x more balanced than what it currently is in a20 just curious how would you say this change has effected you in gameplay compared to a20?

[Roland]

5 hours ago, canadianbluebeer said:

Is the Purified Water recipe going away then?

 

The Water Purifier Mod recipe is still in the game but you have to find the schematic in order to be able to craft it.

 

The pure mineral water recipe is also still in the game if you find Wasteland Treasures Volume 5. 

[Roland]

15 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

This sounds about 30x more balanced than what it currently is in a20 just curious how would you say this change has effected you in gameplay compared to a20?

 

14 hours ago, Blake_ said:

@Roland have you tested water survival? If so, How does it feel for you in early-mid game? (Well, mid game is a bit of a stretch for testing in a flash, but I'm curious still).

 

I like it. I like that I am drinking murky water at times in the beginning. I like building the dew collectors. They are a nice new objective that competes with all the other start of game objectives you have. Before when I'd open a cupboard in a some POI and there would be pure water inside I wouldn't even think about it as I pressed R to auto loot the cabinet and add that drinkable water to the stack already in my inventory. Now it feels great to loot pure water from the dew collector you built.

 

The removed empty jars, the dew collectors, the new magazine learn to craft by looting all combine to make the experience fun and interesting. As veteran player it did take some adaptation on my part but it is fun. I doubt simply adjusting stack limits and recipe costs would have had the same effect these changes have had. I understand that fun is subjective, though, and not everyone will like the change and I'm sure we will hear some feedback on it after experimental hits. But I think we will get a lot of positive feedback about the changes as well.