A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Survager]

14 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

I play with nightmare speed, so yes, of course I'm going to panic and tense up when bikers are coming towards me from around the corner, especially rad bikers, they can kill you within a couple of seconds

In response to what meganoth said "A disadvantage of the proposed change though is that running while being stealthed is probably a much used mode while traversing medium distances in POIs."

My idea is having the toggle option in the settings, so you can enable or disable the auto stand up. A player who likes stealth will have it turned off, while a player like me who rarely uses stealth will have the option turned on

 

The game has two stealth buttons. One switches the mode, and the second turns it on only when the button is pressed. Why not use a button that turns on stealth while the button is pressed, instead of using the mode toggle button?

[FranticDan]

10 minutes ago, Survager said:

 

The game has two stealth buttons. One switches the mode, and the second turns it on only when the button is pressed. Why not use a button that turns on stealth while the button is pressed, instead of using the mode toggle button?

So basically, unmap the ctrl key?
Also, the only time I press C is when I use the gyro, pressing W and C at the same time is not something I've ever done. I'd have to change my muscle memory

[Survager]

10 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

So basically, unmap the ctrl key?
Also, the only time I press C is when I use the gyro, pressing W and C at the same time is not something I've ever done. I'd have to change my muscle memory

Vechicle management is configured separately.

[meilodasreh]

1 hour ago, Survager said:

You are not entirely right, as the problem really exists.
The problem is that we have two buttons for stealth.
The first button (CTRL) puts the player in stealth with a single press, and the second button (C) keeps the player in stealth while the player keeps this button pressed.

 

@madmole @faatal @meganoth

It would be nice if the player, after switching to permanent stealth (CTRL), could cancel permanent stealth by pressing the "C" button, which is responsible for temporary stealth, and not must to remember which of these two buttons is responsible for which stealth option.

 

Don't you think so?

I have played more than 3000 hours and I still sometimes get confused about these stealth 😅

 

You're watching the news and the headline is (as several times every year) the following:

"Old man drives his car through a wall because he mixed up gas and brake pedal"

 

What is your reaction:

 

A

"confused senile $*I§head should get taken away his drivers license"

 

B

"poor old man, anti-gas-brake-confusing-device should be installed into cars"

 

C (option only available in the US of A)

"confused senile $*I§head should get taken away his drivers license, and car manufacturer must be sued for not having installed an anti-gas-brake-confusing-device"

[Survager]

18 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

 

You're watching the news and the headline is (as several times every year) the following:

"Old man drives his car through a wall because he mixed up gas and brake pedal"

 

What is your reaction:

 

A

"confused senile $*I§head should get taken away his drivers license"

 

B

"poor old man, anti-gas-brake-confusing-device should be installed into cars"

 

C (option only available in the US of A)

"confused senile $*I§head should get taken away his drivers license, and car manufacturer must be sued for not having installed an anti-gas-brake-confusing-device"

 

D - send the task author to hell )
If the controls in the game are interfering with the game, rather than helping, then the controls are having problems.
These are not Dark Souls, where camera work and controls play a role of additional complexity )

Edited July 11, 2021 by Survager (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

Sure, but there is also the thing that you might not be aware whether you are crouched or not. You can argue about both being about skill. But also those are very artificial skills because in reality you always know if you are crouched or not and you never need to press specific keys to stand up.

I hit the wrong keys from time to time even when I'm not under pressure and it is the question whether that should be an important skill check in the game.

 

A disadvantage of the proposed change though is that running while being stealthed is probably a much used mode while traversing medium distances in POIs.

 

I would propose a more conspicuous display of stealth mode. My main problem with all those icons on the lower left side (including the very important health and stamina bars) is that I can't keep them in view and 4-5 years of "training" has not improved the situation one bit. My dream would be that stealth mode paints a timeline display showing your noise over time directly above the toolbelt. Hard to miss and shows the most critical information to a stealther.

 

 

Or TFP could just bring back the eye at the center of the screen when crouched. 🤷‍♂️

[meilodasreh]

4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Or TFP could just bring back the eye at the center of the screen when crouched. 🤷‍♂️

Probably wouldn't make a difference in said panic situations.

 

It was already relatively clearly stated that "the controls should be changed cause player doesn't want to change his muscle memory"

Without wanting to get too philosophical, in fact that's one of the bigger problems mankind faces today. Seen from the perspective of evolution, one had to adapt to the given circumstances to succeed...nowerdays everybody is just complaining that the enviroment has to be adapted to the individuals best pleasure.

 

I myself have to admit that I have run into those "why is my running speed so damn slow oh I'm crouched...ouch get away zombie" situations.

...then I feel stupid some time and just start over.

 

[BFT2020]

1 minute ago, meilodasreh said:

Probably wouldn't make a difference in said panic situations.

 

It was already relatively clearly stated that "the controls should be changed cause player doesn't want to change his muscle memory"

Without wanting to get too philosophical, in fact that's one of the bigger problems mankind faces today. Seen from the perspective of evolution, one had to adapt to the given circumstances to succeed...nowerdays everybody is just complaining that the enviroment has to be adapted to the individuals best pleasure.

 

I myself have to admit that I have run into those "why is my running speed so damn slow oh I'm crouched...ouch get away zombie" situations.

...then I feel stupid some time and just start over.

 

I have run in the same situation - not realizing I am still crouched as I try to get away from a pack of zombies after me.

 

And I agree wit the statement that we shouldn't change the environment (toggle switches).  However, in real life, I can easily tell if I am crouched or not.  In the game, it sometimes is not apparent that I am crouching when I want to run away from the danger.  It would be nice (like Meganoth mentioned) if there was a better visual indicator that you are currently crouched or not.  I have no issues with the keys themselves, it is just that the awareness could be better IMHO.

[Survager]

23 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Probably wouldn't make a difference in said panic situations.

 

It was already relatively clearly stated that "the controls should be changed cause player doesn't want to change his muscle memory"

Without wanting to get too philosophical, in fact that's one of the bigger problems mankind faces today. Seen from the perspective of evolution, one had to adapt to the given circumstances to succeed...nowerdays everybody is just complaining that the enviroment has to be adapted to the individuals best pleasure.

 

I myself have to admit that I have run into those "why is my running speed so damn slow oh I'm crouched...ouch get away zombie" situations.

...then I feel stupid some time and just start over.

 

 

According to your logic, character models and animations don't need to change... so they walk normally, shoot normally, look like people... from afar )))
Why improve something that already works even though it looks some wrong? )

[meilodasreh]

43 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I have run in the same situation - not realizing I am still crouched as I try to get away from a pack of zombies after me.

 

And I agree wit the statement that we shouldn't change the environment (toggle switches).  However, in real life, I can easily tell if I am crouched or not.  In the game, it sometimes is not apparent that I am crouching when I want to run away from the danger.  It would be nice (like Meganoth mentioned) if there was a better visual indicator that you are currently crouched or not.  I have no issues with the keys themselves, it is just that the awareness could be better IMHO.

I see and agree.

There seems to be a bunch of people (including me) how faced that situations.

 

So what about getting the camera perspective a little lower than now when crouched, plus making the screen egde darker/dim (similar to the freeze and heat indicators)?

 

 

20 minutes ago, Survager said:

 

According to your logic, character models and animations don't need to change... so they walk normally, shoot normally, look like people... from afar )))
Why improve something that already works even though it looks some wrong? )

🤔 Maybe you got me wrong here.

my logic is that when you hit the wrong button in a panic situation, it is you who made the mistake, and wanting a solution from somebody else to fit your individual needs (which might maybe/likely not work for the next person) is...well I just don't like that "I don't want to adapt, so I demand from others" attitude. 

So your example with general graphics/animations/other game improvements is something completely different.

 

 

[Survager]

41 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

So what about getting the camera perspective a little lower than now when crouched, plus making the screen egde darker/dim (similar to the freeze and heat indicators)?

 

It will not change anything. Now there is already an indicator of stealth over the indicators of health and stamina, but they do not help.
At the same time, if the exit from stealth mode works with any stealth button (CTRL or C), this may well solve the problem.

 

Isn't that easier than moving the camera and dimming the screen?

Edited July 11, 2021 by Survager (see edit history)

[samljer]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:41 AM, saoron666 said:

what other game?

 

They havent announced it, only stated theyre working on one.

No idea what its called, what genre it is, nothing. AFAIK only that theyre making another is all thats been said.

[FranticDan]

This is the only game I have played that doesn't auto uncrouch when you sprint (because of sprint crouching). Also, I want to make it clear, most of the time when I get jump scared, I am NOT crouching, and it's the panic that makes me crouch and then I can't run away. (because I press both ctrl and shift by mistake)

I don't understand why people are complaining about a simple toggle addition, just because they wouldn't personally use it. Imagine if you were forced to play with nightmare speed all of the time because TFP decided they wanted their zombies to be speed demons? You'd ask for the speed toggle option to come back, right?

Remember when you couldn't run while you were aiming? And then TFP made you auto unaim when sprinting?

[Jost Amman]

4 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

This is the only game I have played that doesn't auto uncrouch when you sprint (because of sprint crouching). Also, I want to make it clear, most of the time when I get jump scared, I am NOT crouching, and it's the panic that makes me crouch and then I can't run away. (because I press both ctrl and shift by mistake)

I don't understand why people are complaining about a simple toggle addition, just because they wouldn't personally use it. Imagine if you were forced to play with nightmare speed all of the time because TFP decided they wanted their zombies to be speed demons? You'd ask for the speed toggle option to come back, right?

Remember when you couldn't run while you were aiming? And then TFP made you auto unaim when sprinting?

I'm not against it. Also, as you said, other games do this. 

[Laz Man]

40 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

This is the only game I have played that doesn't auto uncrouch when you sprint (because of sprint crouching). Also, I want to make it clear, most of the time when I get jump scared, I am NOT crouching, and it's the panic that makes me crouch and then I can't run away. (because I press both ctrl and shift by mistake)

I don't understand why people are complaining about a simple toggle addition, just because they wouldn't personally use it. Imagine if you were forced to play with nightmare speed all of the time because TFP decided they wanted their zombies to be speed demons? You'd ask for the speed toggle option to come back, right?

Remember when you couldn't run while you were aiming? And then TFP made you auto unaim when sprinting?

 

Sounds like a nice QoL improvement.  Thank goodness the game doesn't force anyone to play nightmare...😄

[Callum123456789]

i know we already have 2 bajillion books in the game but maybe i have an idea? called survivalists library 

volume 1 learn how to use weapons more efficient clubs have a 15% chance to knock back and stun a zombie for 3 seconds and cooldown is 20 seconds

volume 2 knifes: learn how to slice and dice your foes like mince meat and weaken their attacks after landing 5 successful stabs on a zombie gain a bloodlust effect that makes you hunger for more gain a 10% resistance to any damage type when actively stabbing  with any knife and a 5% power attack damage bonus

volume 3: m60s: the m60 is a powerful yet cumbersome weapon to reload so this book will teach you which parts of it can go and what cannot learn how to craft a more lighter magazine box but at the cost of 25 rounds of the weapons capacity

volume 4: food what's better than having a nice meal in the apocalypse? an added bonus! all foods will give you a 30% total filling bonus for example a can of sham will give you 19.5 food instead of 15 but this effect doesn't go onto the higher quality foods that restore more than 25 points of food

volume 5: the best defence. learn how to craft wooden and iron fortifications at a reduced amount. reduce the material cost by 20% as well as get a permanent 8% increase to all makeshift traps crafted by you.

volume 6: weather is a blessing but also can be a curse. when in any big enough shadow gain a 10% cooled status from heat and for the cold when in any house gain a 10% comfort and sheltered bonus.

volume 6 electricity: in the apocalypse sometimes getting a good enough battery can be troublesome well with this volume you can learn how to better that: all lead car battery's can now be upgraded by one higher tech tier by using mechanical parts, scrap polymers, oil and lead.

volume 7: running techniques. one of the most things about zombies is running away from them so this volume will teach you how to run properly and at the best efficiency. gain a 7% run speed bonus when above 60 stamina and running now uses 5% less stamina.

mastery bonus: master survivalist: when your health hits below 20 you will burst into a rage causing  you to deal 40% more melee damage but each swing will take away 1 hit point and health regenerates faster for 30 seconds.

 

i know this might be flawed but well i hope it seems partially interesting

[Gazz]

12 hours ago, IzPrebuilt said:

Games are meant to in some way challenge you. Meaning that if something is mechanically difficult (pressing the correct key while under pressure) then it creates a skill division between people who can keep their calm and press the right keys and the people who can't.

IRL people who panic usually don't get stuck duck-waddling. Running away is a very basic skill that should not require being calm.

[IzPrebuilt]

5 hours ago, FranticDan said:

I play with nightmare speed, so yes, of course I'm going to panic and tense up when bikers are coming towards me from around the corner, especially rad bikers, they can kill you within a couple of seconds

 

 

Establish dominance. Stand your ground. When the bikers run at you at nightmare speed, kill both of you with a landmine planted squarely at your feet. This is human perseverence at its peak.

1 minute ago, Gazz said:

IRL people who panic usually don't get stuck duck-waddling. Running away is a very basic skill that should not require being calm.

Well, actually people kind of do get stuck duck waddling. Fight or flight kicks in in these situations but some people literally just freeze and get (hypothetically) Krispy Kremed by nightmare speed bikers.

[Gazz]

On 7/9/2021 at 8:47 PM, Adam the Waster said:

New wood Rubble model

Well, looks shippable to me!

(some assembly required)

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I see and agree.

There seems to be a bunch of people (including me) how faced that situations.

 

So what about getting the camera perspective a little lower than now when crouched, plus making the screen egde darker/dim (similar to the freeze and heat indicators)?

 

You already get the camera perspective a little lower when you crouch. During standing up or crouching you see the difference, but not when you keep a stance.

Something on the screen edge was my first thought too, but then I thought that for example night-vision goggles already embellish/occlude the screen edges.

Also screen edge again depends on peripheral vision and that is not my strong suit. I should mention that I'm blind on one eye, so my field of vision is probably narrower than usual.

 

10 hours ago, Roland said:

 

 Git gud dude!

After 5 years of trying that without success I just have to face the facts 😉

Edited July 12, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Gazz said:

Well, looks shippable to me!

(some assembly required)

Does a new POI come with it?  IPEA!

[q123]

9 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Does a new POI come with it?  IPEA!

What you're looking for is in Compopack, check for IZEA 😉

[Jost Amman]

27 minutes ago, q123 said:

What you're looking for is in Compopack, check for IZEA 😉

@Roland We need a "surprised" reaction! 

[meilodasreh]

14 hours ago, FranticDan said:

it's the panic that makes me crouch and then I can't run away. (because I press both ctrl and shift by mistake)

So it's not a thing of visual indication of crouch/stand anyway,

more a need for a workaround for your failing brain-muscle connection 🤔

 

I had a similar problem with Skyrim, it didn't let me bind a key I used in many other games.

So I feel your pain, regardless of I myself am more like "damn what's wrong with me, why do I keep pressing the wrong buttons, man focus and get it right finally"

Have you looked for a mod that "fixes" keybindings to your needs?

For Skyrim there was one 😬

Edited July 12, 2021 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

I'm usually in the situation where I get the CTRL and SHIFT keys mixed up, in 7 Days or in Skyrim. 😬 "Run, idiot, run!" *Crouches*

19 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

Probably wouldn't make a difference in said panic situations.

 

It was already relatively clearly stated that "the controls should be changed cause player doesn't want to change his muscle memory"

Without wanting to get too philosophical, in fact that's one of the bigger problems mankind faces today. Seen from the perspective of evolution, one had to adapt to the given circumstances to succeed...nowerdays everybody is just complaining that the enviroment has to be adapted to the individuals best pleasure.

 

I myself have to admit that I have run into those "why is my running speed so damn slow oh I'm crouched...ouch get away zombie" situations.

...then I feel stupid some time and just start over.

 

 

Still, a visual indicator of if you've been detected or not would be nice, like in alphas of old.

15 hours ago, IzPrebuilt said:

 

Establish dominance. Stand your ground. When the bikers run at you at nightmare speed, kill both of you with a landmine planted squarely at your feet. This is human perseverence at its peak.

 

Seriously though, if you've got a gun and a biker is charging towards you, just crouch to improve your aim (or supposedly) and pelt off a few shots. At least then you're in a better position then being tickled from behind.

Edited July 12, 2021 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)