A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[MechanicalLens]

57 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Can I suggest Pink Boars? Pretty please.

 

Nahh thanks, too unrealistic. Demon boars on the other hand, sign me up.

 

[Blake_]

49 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

Man, I'd hate to get so hung up on something so trivial. To each their own, I guess. 

 

Looks good to me. /shrug

 

There's nothing trivial about videogame art. There is a process. And avobe all there's research before the fact.

 

This has nothing to do with variety. I understand there has to be a dog, and a new one is cool. But if you model it based on a doberman (which it is) ,  better do some pre-research thinking:

 

1. If it's colour, then a full black doberman is extremely rare (EXTREMELY rare, it has to have the condition called Melanism which is way rarer than albinism and on top of that it shall be male). Even mixed-breeds have some colour.

2. If the dog is really burned, well that is a weird design choice for a generic biome entity, because a burned dog would (in my opinion) better be located in a burned/radiated biome. Charred puppies in the forest ? mmm. Aliens.

 

 

So I don't see triviality on pointing out an obvious art flaw in my favourite game. Everything in this life can be solved by saying "Aliens" though. So I'm good.

[Diragor]

This is a damn Zombie Dog! His fur is probably gone and his skin is rotting. Thats why the color is like that... it looks damn awesome and stop crying over such small things that doesn't matter.

[DarlingCows]

Awesome zombie dog but now I want a zombie dobberwawa. 

2 hours ago, Blake_ said:

 

There's nothing trivial about videogame art. There is a process. And avobe all there's research before the fact.

 

This has nothing to do with variety. I understand there has to be a dog, and a new one is cool. But if you model it based on a doberman (which it is) ,  better do some pre-research thinking:

 

1. If it's colour, then a full black doberman is extremely rare (EXTREMELY rare, it has to have the condition called Melanism which is way rarer than albinism and on top of that it shall be male). Even mixed-breeds have some colour.

2. If the dog is really burned, well that is a weird design choice for a generic biome entity, because a burned dog would (in my opinion) better be located in a burned/radiated biome. Charred puppies in the forest ? mmm. Aliens.

 

 

So I don't see triviality on pointing out an obvious art flaw in my favourite game. Everything in this life can be solved by saying "Aliens" though. So I'm good.

To a generic point the common thought of a Doberman dog is big black dog with teeth. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by DarlingCows (see edit history)

[beerfly]

17 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Where are the devs? Why don't they write here anymore? 

Why?  WHY!  WHY?!  

 

Is there something wrong with my computer? 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

It`s been a long last year, lets give them the time they need  

[Blake_]

7 hours ago, Diragor said:

This is a damn Zombie Dog! His fur is probably gone and his skin is rotting. Thats why the color is like that... it looks damn awesome and stop crying over such small things that doesn't matter.

Nice. But then if it's like that, the skin underneath a doberman's hair is actually pale white (like in the concept shown by TFP) . So it still doesn't work like that.

I suppose that black dogs are the imaginary  stuff of nightmares, like that kittie from the Allan Poe novel. A black dober is not a fitting entity for a 7dtd that pretends to model a pseudo reality with a fantasy dystopian apocalyptic feel to it (in my opinion). I would paint a little bit of dirtied bloodied brown to (at least) the paws.

 

 

Edit: If it comes down to it, I'm actually ok with the dog as it is if need be, just pointing out that very apparent  inadequacy.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[Roland]

14 hours ago, Blake_ said:

@madmole my dog companion is ashamed of that concept art. Lol.

It isn't concept art. It is the actual hd model that will be in the game.

 

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

Edit: If it comes down to it, I'm actually ok with the dog as it is if need be, just pointing out that very apparent  inadequacy.

 

I understand your disquiet about it seeing as you are a dobermann owner and you obviously have a lot of love for the breed and so your attention to detail and care for it is elevated beyond the unwashed masses. My friend who is an ER doctor can't stand hospital dramas...

 

To me, it looks like a scary dog and I am not bothered in the least that it is all black without a bit of brown around the paws. I don't need to imagine aliens to try and reconcile what you call an apparent inadequacy. Without your pointing it out I would never for a moment even thought about it--it's so unapparent to the lay person playing a zombie video game. So, I am sorry that this finished model will be like a pebble in your shoe as you play but for 99% of the players it won't register as even a wrinkle in their sock and I don't think they should go back to the drawing board and spend time browning up the paws (unless doing so is a trivial job).

 

If I'm being critical of the model I would say that the dog can very easily be mistaken for being burnt and if players decide in their minds that it is burnt rather than just decayed then they might wonder why every dog is a burn victim in whatever biome they see them. That question has already come up, in fact. But even that is not enough to spend time going back and redoing, in my opinion. It is done and looks scary and cool and they should move on to their next projects.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Blake_]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

It isn't concept art. It is the actual hd model that will be in the game.

 

 

I understand your disquiet about it seeing as you are a dobermann owner and you obviously have a lot of love for the breed and so your attention to detail and care for it is elevated beyond the unwashed masses. My friend who is an ER doctor can't stand hospital dramas...

 

Yeah, I incorrectly described it as concept while treating it like a game ready asset which is very likely so. About the rest, you got me rolling already with the unwashed masses. Is that how you treat your pupils ? lol. And I still think you are wrong. An artist must do pre-research not only on proportions and bone-muscle distribution. Colour of the coat is also a must, both alive and dead.

[SnowDog1942]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:09 PM, JCrook1028 said:

So we have a special dog just for the burnt forest? I don't see this fitting into the world at large very well.

 

I think we need a special dog just for the Winter Biome.  Maybe, a SnowDog.  Its a good name.

[BFT2020]

12 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

 

I think we need a special dog just for the Winter Biome.  Maybe, a SnowDog.  Its a good name.

Wouldn't be much of a threat if it is humping everything though

[JCrook1028]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:13 PM, Adam the Waster said:

thats just the way Doberman look. 

But thing is, that is NOT how Dobermans look. Dobies have brown, damn near always... This dog looks burnt. No fur texture, no brown, burnt.

[x3eemguy]

19 hours ago, Blake_ said:

@madmole my dog companion is ashamed of that concept art (edit: it looks like a 3d model ready to go though). Lol.

 

Dobermans have clear brown paw colouring as well as in other places. The concept should aim for a general-purpose dog. That one has the wrong colour because a charred Zd doberman can only be used coherently in Wasteland/burned forest area. That means they will look out of place in any other biome. 

 

There's always the "whatever card" aka  "Alien virus changes fur pigment", but based on the rest of the Zds  IT DOES NOT change fur pigment of the infected (they are just cadaver-coloured entities). 

 

So I hope the actual final texture has, at the very least, some clear brown pigment on the paws and around the mouth. The rest of the area colouring varies between individuals, usually some have clear brown on the shoulders, chest and under the tail/ thighs, but the one thing that never changes in a doberman  is some paw colouring and also in the fur in the mandible/around the mouth. Other colours can happen, but always with the same pattern as long as it is still a doberman.

 

Like these:

 

  Hide contents

 

Everyone that's hating on this concept really need to just chill and be happy that the dog is getting an update. Such as life, optimize and the optimize some more. Any improvement is better than no improvement.

Edited January 14, 2021 by x3eemguy (see edit history)

[MechanicalLens]

12 minutes ago, Weazelsun said:

@madmole Artistically will the wasteland biome and burnt forest biome get a remodel to make them look more unique? Currently the only difference in terms of model separating them is the ground textures and debris.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't quote me on this, but from what I've seen and been told the burnt biome is getting the axe in A20; either that, or it will be combined with the wasteland.

[Danidas]

9 minutes ago, Weazelsun said:

@madmole Artistically will the wasteland biome and burnt forest biome get a remodel to make them look more unique? Currently the only difference in terms of model separating them is the ground textures and debris.

 

 

 

 

They are getting merged into the same biome in A20 that will be a mix of burning and radiation hazards.

 

Now as for the dog model I'm looking forward to them as they are far scarier then what we got now. Also looking forward to what they do to bears and zombie bears along with the other animals.

[MechanicalLens]

I'm most curious if RWG in A20 will have random biome sizes and placements or if there will be a set of predetermined templates that could come in a maximum of four orientations. 🤔

[Blake_]

2 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

But thing is, that is NOT how Dobermans look. Dobies have brown, damn near always... This dog looks burnt. No fur texture, no brown, burnt.

I think they might stick with it at the end despite the flaws. To hell with accuracy, welcome scary-butt alien zombie puppies !

[SarkMCPFan]

what id love would be a "biome selector" for new world options. a way to tick or untick which biomes you want to see/dont want in a world spawn (if its possible) just my thoughts

 

[Blake_]

39 minutes ago, SarkMCPFan said:

what id love would be a "biome selector" for new world options. a way to tick or untick which biomes you want to see/dont want in a world spawn (if its possible) just my thoughts

 

Kinyajuu said something about that in the 2nd A20 dev stream. He said that you will be able to directly control the size of each biome (Forest, Snow, Desert and Wasteland/burnt) in the World Generation Options. He also said that you will be able to control the terrain elevation options , specifically things like amount of mountains, plateaus and hills, so you can create a completely flat map if you so choose.

[SarkMCPFan]

oohh what about what poi you want to see more of? (like more skyscrapers and less of the super boring buildings?)

[Fanatical_Meat]

@madmoleplease give an eta for a20, being slightly vague is fine

everyone else calm the f down. This isn’t meant to be an absolute date.

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

@madmoleplease give an eta for a20, being slightly vague is fine

everyone else calm the f down. This isn’t meant to be an absolute date.

 

 

No release date estimates. It is happening this year sometime. 19.4 is still a planned update so A20 is still a ways off.

[MechanicalLens]

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

Kinyajuu said something about that in the 2nd A20 dev stream. He said that you will be able to directly control the size of each biome (Forest, Snow, Desert and Wasteland/burnt) in the World Generation Options. He also said that you will be able to control the terrain elevation options , specifically things like amount of mountains, plateaus and hills, so you can create a completely flat map if you so choose.

 

Would be great if we could create a world with just one biome.

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, SarkMCPFan said:

oohh what about what poi you want to see more of? (like more skyscrapers and less of the super boring buildings?)

Sure, Kinyajuu said there'll be a specific option named "[x] No super boring buildings" that you'll be able to turn on or off as you please.

He also said that since TFP don't believe there are super boring buildings in the game, that option will actually do nothing.

[Guppycur]

Quote

 

Any word on town sizes in A20 RWG? The largest cities (i.e. 100 POI's or larger) should be removed entirely. From my perspective it's poor game design to allow the player to settle in one location literally forever, especially if they have two or more of these cities generated in the local area like in A19/A18. The player should be forced to be a nomad until the end-game, travelling from location to location, bringing resources with them and harvesting more if needed, building a temporary base that can hold down the horde, and when they exhaust the region of resources the move on to a new location. Only late-game - gyrocopter and 4x4 truck phase - would they have the option of realistically setting down a permanent footing.

 

To summarize it simply, towns containing 100+ POI's are grossly overpowered and should be nerfed.

 

Edit reason: spelling error.

Speaking of nerfs, how about traders? I've had a change of heart and in my opinion a maximum of 10 traders is a little bit much for 8k map sizes. How about reducing that number to 5 (no chance for duplicates), or if you must, a maximum of 6 or 7?

 

 

I'd rather a slider that allows the end user to determine city/town size, but I like options, rather than forcing a will upon a player; hopefully since RWG is getting more loving, it'll have more features.  Even though I myself would opt to remove cities entirely (until radiation zones are a thing).

Edited January 17, 2021 by Roland
added quote for guppy context (see edit history)

[SarkMCPFan]

4 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Sure, Kinyajuu said there'll be a specific option named "[x] No super boring buildings" that you'll be able to turn on or off as you please.

He also said that since TFP don't believe there are super boring buildings in the game, that option will actually do nothing.

oh i meant the ones that dont give a loot cache at the end of exploring.. i like the others that gives the reward for taking that time to explore the building to completion. just feels nice. (also i was just curious to be honest really)