Adam the Waster Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 THIS, is my BOOMSTICK! no this is patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 If it makes you feel any better the zombies don’t know bupkiss. They are every bit as stupid as you want them to be. It’s faatal’s pathing code that is super smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfbain5 Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 FAATAL!!! it's ALL your fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exxodous Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 You may be okay with that, fine, I'm not and others like me or not. They aren't that dumb. How in the world do zombies know that my door is the weakest link? How? . Maybe since they were human they "remember" what doors are for.....getting in a building. Seems logical to me that there may be lingering remnants or instincts left over that makes them want to go towards a door. The lore is what you make it sometimes. As far as traps being ineffective?? I've had no problems getting zeds to run into traps. If you dig a trench and place spikes in them they never path around them, they just walk over the top and die. Or Give them a choke point path to you and they will keep walking the path regardless how many die to spikes, barbed wire etc. Or Use electric fences, dart traps, shotgun turrets. I've never seen them avoid those either You are correct that if you place a wall of spikes, they can walk around them or once a path is created they will follow it. I like to think I'm smarter than they are so I do not use those tactics. *shrugs* It's not hard. I say the AI is 1000% more enjoyable than the last 3 Alpha's but of course it's just an opinion like yours I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Maybe since they were human they "remember" what doors are for.....getting in a building. Seems logical to me that there may be lingering remnants or instincts left over that makes them want to go towards a door. The lore is what you make it sometimes. As far as traps being ineffective?? I've had no problems getting zeds to run into traps. If you dig a trench and place spikes in them they never path around them, they just walk over the top and die. Or Give them a choke point path to you and they will keep walking the path regardless how many die to spikes, barbed wire etc. Or Use electric fences, dart traps, shotgun turrets. I've never seen them avoid those either You are correct that if you place a wall of spikes, they can walk around them or once a path is created they will follow it. I like to think I'm smarter than they are so I do not use those tactics. *shrugs* It's not hard. I say the AI is 1000% more enjoyable than the last 3 Alpha's but of course it's just an opinion like yours I suppose. Agreed 100%. The current AI is so fun that it is worth a bit of adaptation to base design in order to account for it. I also like to think of the first two blood moons as the opportunity to discover their favored path. Then you have a corridor that you can work with to destroy them. People like me are so glad for the changes and the gameplay they bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Agreed 100%. The current AI is so fun that it is worth a bit of adaptation to base design in order to account for it. I also like to think of the first two blood moons as the opportunity to discover their favored path. Then you have a corridor that you can work with to destroy them. People like me are so glad for the changes and the gameplay they bring. Judging from MMs videos the AI looks good to me. There seemed to be a good mix zeds running right under where MM was standing and others trying to break in a nearby block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Thanks Faatal. Hmmm...the zombie's would really be desperate to get to you because you have so much brainz. Oh, btw, do you know if the pathing on the wooden stairs normally leading up into the attics has been fixed? Zombies would rarely path down it and instead just break them and you were perfectly safe even with a 1m gap between you and the zombie. It's like the zombies didn't know they could walk on them. Cheers Seems OK. The only issue I see with stairs is sometimes digging instead of jumping down (over a railing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 ...and Vulkan rendering. ᕦ(ٍ_َˇ)ᕤ I tested Vulkan last year in A17 and 80% of what was rendered was pink. I tried Vulkan again today after seeing you mention it, since we are on a newer version of Unity (2019.1). Turns out all the pink rendering was shaders needing to be updated. Fixed that, but unfortunately even with the latest nVidia drivers, the renderer hangs after a few seconds in Navezgane in the editor or a build. Probably bugs in Unity's Vulkan code. I see 2019.2 has a bunch of Vulkan fixes, so maybe it will work the next time we update Unity. Possibly A19. It did not hang in a Prefab playtest, but didn't notice any big performance change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 They are working on the AI and it is still in development. Not much of the AI zombie behavior is out right intentional at all. No. Other than bugs, they do what they are programmed to do and it is quite intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 here is a small update from me about the game stage and blood moon. day 70 Blood Moon, level 59, mixed steel armor and iron, GS 177 and 4 deaths early low level. percentages are guesses not exacts 80% radiated 5 or 6 demolisher (2 exploded took out sound ground but not base walls) defenses were - barbed wire traps, iron spikes, 3 blade traps 9 dart traps (somebody forgot to turn on the damn dart traps) lost 90% spikes and barbed wire traps, 2 blade traps broken and 1 crippled i have found that with spitters, they keep you moving (if you stand still their acid will bring down the walls), then at higher gs game the combination with demolishers cause quite a bit of damage and the others took advantage of it. 4 different times through-out the bm night they changed their attacks by coming from different directions. people, at high game stage... the blood moon is for real now, (if you dont dig a giant hole and fish from it that is..), my simple minded ground defense is holding up so far (if i would remember to turn ALL of my traps on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 hey in the video I hear some of the cut audio tracks from the zombies have returned!!! NICE Last week I noticed sense sounds were not hooked up in code, so: Added AI SetNearestEntityAsTarget plays sense sound when investigating noise (with a 10-20 sec cooldown. sense sounds were never played). Cleaned up EntityAlive alert/random sound code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Might wanna adjust the 3d models of grenades, maybe pipebombs too. Look at 09:01 timestamp, the nade lying next to a dead zombie´s head, virtually the same size... I think they are oversized intentionally to make them easier to see and match hand size better as they are released (spawned). That is how I found them set in the XML when I started working on them. I did reduce the Molotov size yesterday to reduce edge hits when you are throwing past something in addition to reducing their radius by 1m and using an actual radius check for players to their hips, so you don't set yourself on fire as easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faatal Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Since when zombies are able to avoid traps? Zombies do not avoid traps, because they don't even know what a trap is. Barbed wire? Blade trap? Electric wire? Darts? Walk through. Turrets? Zombie says "what is a turret?" Spikes? Walks around or jumps and walks on like any other block in their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Zombies do not avoid traps, because they don't even know what a trap is. Barbed wire? Blade trap? Electric wire? Darts? Walk through. Turrets? Zombie says "what is a turret?" Spikes? Walks around or jumps and walks on like any other block in their way. Thanks for all the under the hood insight. Glad to have your skillset on the team. Game just keeps getting better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 Hope I made myself clear. I already admitted I was wrong when it came to zombie lore, but I still want an option to make zombies dumb. And you are wrong again. Do yourself a favor and stop posting until you are up to speed. Zombies don't avoid traps, at least not in A18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I'm completely with you again. In fact, I have a confession to make. In light of zombies behaving the way they do, since blade traps were released - I honestly and sincerely haven't ever crafted any. I can second that zombies coming from the same direction at least all take the safe route instead of clambering over your spike traps unless theres no wag to you and the walls have to come down. This is a legitimate frustration that does indeed call into question the point of traps. MadMole does have a tendency to take things to the extreme sometimes too - people don't always take criticism well. Well, there is a catch with spike traps. They have to be level with the ground, then the zombies walk over them like you want it, and they are very effective. But it is not really easy and obvious to find out. Like this for example: And what is your problem with blade traps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 If I may make a suggestion as to explain why some people (including myself) 'kneejerk' at this stuff - it would be this. We have had certain 'features' added to the game - digging zombies being one of them for a start - which some people (again, myself included) do not like and wish could be turned off. Having the option to disable features, certain zombies, or anything else can only be a positive thing. Choice. Lets say it together - choice. C. H. O. I. C. E. Did I mention choice? That way any selfish individuals intolerant to options - having things both ways and not only 'their way' could just shut their traps and play exactly how they like, and the rest of us can flip switches and enjoy, and be grateful to the developers for bestowing such wonderful gifts upon us to create our very own truly individual instances. #LikeThat'llEverHappen 😂 We might add a no blood moon option someday, and a way to rent a safe room from a trader but not right now. I don't see what the big deal is, you can already cheese the blood moon very easily, just not underground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Seems OK. The only issue I see with stairs is sometimes digging instead of jumping down (over a railing). The AI generally seems to have problems with railings. For example, in Bear Den (Prefab Business_old_03) there is a bridge with a railing in the back room. Behind it are tanks containing zombies. The zombies wake up and then the CPU load goes up and FPS goes down. There are only 4 or 5 zombies but the load on the system is worse than on a bloodmoon horde. I guess because the AI has trouble calculating the path. The zombies first try to dig their way under the railing, then stop and jump over the railing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 hmm, for the pipe bombs, I think I will have a slant coming down to my base so the pipe bombs bounce and roll towards the zeds on the spikes. Thats a GREAT idea! +1 for da man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Agreed 100%. The current AI is so fun that it is worth a bit of adaptation to base design in order to account for it. I also like to think of the first two blood moons as the opportunity to discover their favored path. Then you have a corridor that you can work with to destroy them. People like me are so glad for the changes and the gameplay they bring. Yup. If intelligent, calculating behavior and even inter species teamwork is seen in the wild. Even in certain insects! Then a partially dead human brain might come up with something clever as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrough Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think they are oversized intentionally to make them easier to see and match hand size better as they are released (spawned). That is how I found them set in the XML when I started working on them. I did reduce the Molotov size yesterday to reduce edge hits when you are throwing past something in addition to reducing their radius by 1m and using an actual radius check for players to their hips, so you don't set yourself on fire as easily. I will make a shrine to you and offer up all the liquids that I would have otherwise been dousing my burning ass with in A18. You might have revived some horde base design aspects that I loved but couldn't use because of molotovs smashing into edges. I'm looking forward to trying out all the upcoming changes, big and small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 We might add a no blood moon option someday, and a way to rent a safe room from a trader but not right now. I don't see what the big deal is, you can already cheese the blood moon very easily, just not underground There's already an option to switch off the blood moon horde. At least in A17. But that' not what they asked for. By the way, it's a prejudice that players with underground bases want to hide from the horde. I had many underground bases and never hid from the horde. I fought them in my horde bases. Players with underground bases just use all the possibilities the game has to offer. Underground bases are also very convenient. When excavating I get most of the materials I need to build the horde base. Two birds, one stone. I don't like the digging zombies either, by the way. They have already caused two mines to collapse. So I would also like to have an option to turn them off. They are just annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrough Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 There's already an option to switch off the blood moon horde. At least in A17. But that' not what they asked for. By the way, it's a prejudice that players with underground bases want to hide from the horde. I had many underground bases and never hid from the horde. I fought them in my horde bases. Players with underground bases just use all the possibilities the game has to offer. Underground bases are also very convenient. When excavating I get most of the materials I need to build the horde base. Two birds, one stone. Yup, I've always had a good portion of my base underground just because of needing to dig the stuff up anyway and because I don't like storing important things on any structures that could possibly collapse. (I'm also kind of a mole-person that enjoys a good vault.) Zombies learning to dig forced me out of the dark basement into more interesting houses with land and sky as well as my beloved basements. Designing and building the walls and gates so that I can fight and repair, even unseen if I want to kill screamers without them summoning, has been a fun project. It also gives me something to keep trying to improve. Before I just stayed under and ignored whatever I wanted to. My horde base is still essentially a deep pit to gather them all up, but way more challenging to design and (try to) perfect than I ever would have bothered with when the zombies were barely a threat. I just changed it again anticipating the demolisher and I'm excited to put it to the test. It's been kind of fun playing through the changes over the years- stringing it all together in my mind makes it feel like one immersive world where the zombies keep evolving and I have to evolve with them and stay smart to stay ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Zombies do not avoid traps, because they don't even know what a trap is. Barbed wire? Blade trap? Electric wire? Darts? Walk through. Turrets? Zombie says "what is a turret?" Spikes? Walks around or jumps and walks on like any other block in their way. In classic base defenses, the spikes were simply placed on the ground. Now you have to place the spikes flush with the ground. Many people don't know that and think that the zombies are running around the spikes. With the old AI it was also possible to influence the attack of the zombies when you changed position. For example, if there was too much damage in one spot, you would just move to another spot and the zombies would attack there. The new AI always attacks the damaged blocks since they are the weak spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.natural Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I've read what it is 5 times and my brain keeps deleting it because there is something very stupid about it I don't like. Thanks for replying and thank you for the videos, A18 looks great. (In case you were wondering, I was talking about for Windows not linux) EDIT, I see fataal answered already, I tested Vulkan last year in A17 and 80% of what was rendered was pink. I tried Vulkan again today after seeing you mention it, since we are on a newer version of Unity (2019.1). Turns out all the pink rendering was shaders needing to be updated. Fixed that, but unfortunately even with the latest nVidia drivers, the renderer hangs after a few seconds in Navezgane in the editor or a build. Probably bugs in Unity's Vulkan code. I see 2019.2 has a bunch of Vulkan fixes, so maybe it will work the next time we update Unity. Possibly A19. It did not hang in a Prefab playtest, but didn't notice any big performance change. Thank you so much for trying and the update on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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