Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[The Gronk]

It does? Why? Where is HP-based pathing going to break if different blocks have different HPs?

 

I simply don't follow your logic of why path weight = block HP (except for special cases like doors, as mentioned) means that wildly different blocks need the same HP. Unless you're rejecting the underlying premise of A17 pathing, that zombies 'just know' the path of least resistance... but it doesn't sound like you're making that argument.

 

The great Mole was right when he said you can exploit that system in some scenarios, I'm pretty certain that's why it was changed to everything having the same HP. As has also been pointed out you can also exploit the current system in some scenarios. This really is the wrong way to approach this problem.

 

The AI would target your half blocks and it would create a weird exploit.

 

I really don't think that zombies should be structural engineers at all, they should path using their (limited) senses. Unfortunately that's how it has to be when your pathing AI is using the best technology 1968 has to offer. :-)

[Guppycur]

But do you really have to plan out the entire roof first? By time you get to the roof you know how the blocks need to be placed and you’ll be able to immediately pick up any wedges that are placed incorrectly.

 

Yeh. Challenging things are fun.

[Shineblossom]

As for the saw table, that thing should go the way of the dino's I've never noticed anyone really ever making one or using it. Especially when you consider wood is bascally useless vs zombies.

 

Never used catwalks? Also, it looks as cool feature, having it in workshop. Looks pretty. Shine likes pretty.

 

Whether or not just turning on all the traps and letting them run all night is "proper," my expectation would still be that if a player does do that, the load on the system would depend on how many entities it was damaging at the moment. Then there'd be an increasing danger of overloading the system as the zombies get tougher and engage your traps longer and more often.

 

I would agree with this IF. If we could make one big grid. Not having one solar pannel connected to one battery bank, which, when fully slotted with purple panels, can run only on.. How much was it? 175V? (180-5 for the battery charging). The way it is now this would get >>extremelly<< annoying and impractical.

 

Make them even cheaper to make than they are. Early game wood is very important so right now a lot of players just camp in a poi or go straight to flagstone.

 

A lot of players also builds from Flagstones because it is just so simple to get. I don't even care about saving wood early, it is just so much better to build straight away from "higher tier" blocks, since they are extremelly easy to come by.

 

folks if you want easier horde nights just turn off horde nights or lower the in game difficulty to its lowest setting. I mean if people want to build large complex buildings and other just stuff go into creative or if you don't want creative then turn off horde night and put the game at its easiest setting and I can't remember if this is in the settings or not but lower zombie block damage to its lowest setting also.

 

I do want horde nights. I do like my high difficulty settings. I do not like looting POI that has 1 SMG, 1 shotgun and 100 bullets after i spent 700 bullets on even getting to loot room because every single zombie is radiated tank.

[Roland]

Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.

 

They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

 

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

 

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

 

Can you stand on these ghost blocks?

[Scavengers_son]

Can you stand on these ghost blocks?

 

No. They are purely conceptual, so they have no collision detection (other than detecting the ray cast of the construction tool). That means you'd have to climb on a scaffold to place them on top of each other, just like you would with frames. Well, with the exception that you can walk on frames, of course.

[Proof_89]

Do we have a release date yet? 4,5,6 weeks time, starting school in the US, full moon etc. etc. etc is pretty vague IMO. Also i heard something in the video the lads did last week about a weekend experimental ?!? Cheerio!

[madmole]

Hey, I'm not the usual forum dweller but I loved this game for so long and I had to come and ask!

 

Is there going to be a rework on zombies? I know there have been in the past and in comparison, now they look really good but still.. To be honnest their kinda clunky, rigid and not very spooky looking... I know this is a different game, and yet some games manage to make their zeds alot more fluid, take l4d2 for example, or dead rising, or any of the modern realistic zombie games for that matter.

 

On that subject, how about hits on zeds now showed bullet holes or at least some blood on the zombie itself. Now that would be a huge novelty, and definitely would make the interaction with zombies more immersive.

This is a big deal breaker for me, as the only aspect of the game I reckon that's still a bit behind imho are zombies.

Would any of this be possible?

 

(~؛^؛)~ Keep up the amazing work! ~(؛^؛~)

 

forever a fan

We will improve them in the sequel, we can't constantly redo everything, we aren't a AAA studio. Programming is always making movement and behavior improvements and blending could be improved yet though.

[madmole]

My complaint is that I use frames to plan out new base construction projects, which can take hours just for planning. If frames are removed then it throws a wrench into my, and likely many others, plans. Scaffolding might work as a stand-in, but where with the frames, if we liked the layout then we could just immediately start construction. Scaffolding would have to be replaced with whatever block we want to put in. You can understand how this could get very tedious very quickly, right?

 

Most likely frames will stay, but I would like them to preview opaque or have lighting so that you can see what you are doing.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Can you stand on these ghost blocks?

 

No, but your ghost can.

[Thecolours]

We will improve them in the sequel, we can't constantly redo everything, we aren't a AAA studio. Programming is always making movement and behavior improvements and blending could be improved yet though.

 

So, the next game you guys are working on is a 7DTD sequel?

[madmole]

A little quality of life thing. Can you make it so upgrading flagstone to cobblestone take just one "hit". It's the only block that takes multiple hits to upgrade and is a hugely tedious. I'd also like upgrading a block to increase heat a lot more. Think of a construction sites noise pollution in real life.

 

Everything is 3 hits with the stone axe, 2 with the hammer and 1 with the nailgun.

[Jay_ombie]

We will improve them in the sequel, we can't constantly redo everything, we aren't a AAA studio. Programming is always making movement and behavior improvements and blending could be improved yet though.

 

 

If you got rid of the predetermined animations and moved the zombies with ragdoll arms (head etc) that alone would make them look radical and varied.

[madmole]

Hey everyone, Been seeing that Madmole and the team are making vids of 18. Looks great and excited to try it when it's ready.

 

Just one question: will the crackling of electricity on the stun baton be adjusted? In Prime's stream he was looting a house with the group and had a stun baton ready, but he couldn't find a zombie, only hearing them. The crackling became more and more annoying to Prime as it was charged and was forced to put it away.

 

So are there plans to adjust the volume of it or change the looping noise of the electricity to make it less audibly intrusive for the first round of release of A18? Prime did make a comment how it's a placeholder sound from the electric fence, but I don't know if the change is planned for a build before the release.

 

I've mentioned already that the sounds are placeholder.

[madmole]

Why not make brass craftable? There's a chem bench... Cranking up the looting is great but with the smaller mapsizes its still going to be a finite source if you can only scrap it, especially on servers with a decent amount of people.

 

I'm not interested in mining zinc and copper. There needs to be something people need to do to risk their necks. Its easier than ever to get brass.

[madmole]

"There are some perk books that let you harvest door knobs, and more brass/lead from sinks, plus mining is viable again so all the GP and lead you can want. On top of that traders seem to fill any..." - Madmole about the future of brass.

 

Dang I should read ahead, you guys are doing a great job informing the Johnny Newcomes.

[madmole]

There has been talks about brass before, pasted his statement to show its final words, again. We haven`t even played A18 to see how the new balance gives it to us. Of course, crafting it is a plus. But we need to have a reason to go out there and loot.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Shut up

 

Again, reiterating what I said lol.

[Gnomaana]

Its klunky design having hit point values and recipes all over the place. It leads to harvest bonuses failing, edge case exploits and another of 1000's of examples where realism fails yet again.

 

Overdesign is the most common designer trap, don't think you are intelligent when you start overdesigning, the opposite is in fact, the truth.

 

I agree but underdesign is an issue also. Hit point values and recipes all over the place came along with making it a voxel game. A slim bar 1/10th the thickness of the base block having the same HPs just makes no sense. I don't care if it makes coding/balaning easier. Even in a game with zombies and being able to care tons and tons of rock, it still makes no sense. I don't need a game to be realistic. It does need internal logic and consistency. This is neither.

 

I also don't like the whole idea of the shape selector. It's just another step on the road to nerfing out any difficulty. There are basically no "survival" elements left. This is the first step in simplifying the "building" aspect out of the game. You don't have to plan out what you need. How many corner shapes, etc. Just grab 10000 blocks and place them and magically turn them into any shape you want. That's not building. That is designing. It's autocad for gaming.

[madmole]

So you're his secretary or something? I'm just asking.

I've played 7 days since 2014 and had a server since 2015, so I know what people ask and like. Right now no one understands why this is still not a alloy or how you call it, that you can make.

 

One other thing a lot of people say is how great mods are now, for your tools and weapons and how that is THE reason to go out and loot.

I am sure there are much more Mods and things to loot to come. These are WAY better reasons to go out and loot than something mandatory (and finite) as brass.

Lead used to be a problem back in the day and that's mineable now, and people really dont miss that to mandatory loot/scrap.

 

Why don't you just play A18 and then argue about it. I was able to craft 1000 9mm rounds when I dedicated one game day to that task.

[Weazelsun]

Why don't you just play A18 and then argue about it. I was able to craft 1000 9mm rounds when I dedicated one game day to that task.

 

But A18 isn't out yet, lol.

[FA_Q2]

Why don't you just play A18 and then argue about it. I was able to craft 1000 9mm rounds when I dedicated one game day to that task.

 

I am gonna take this as you are releasing a18 today so we can do exactly what you tell us too. I would not want to disobey MM

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hi! Sorry I'm a bit late, but is it still possible to join the discussion about frames vs grace? How about replacing all frames with generic plan blocks? I'm talking about non-tangible, semi-transparent blueprint blocks, which you can choose in the shape menu and place them on existing tangible blocks or other plan blocks, just like you would place normal blocks.

 

They cost nothing, but you can aim at them with your construction tool and upgrade them to whatever material you have loaded in it. They have no mass because they are just plans and ideas, just like that weight loss project or weight lift program you gonna start first thing tomorrow. You can build your whole base with plan blocks, walk through the walls and move your plans around until you feel it's right. Then you just start banging those blocks with your nail gun, turning them into real blocks while paying the raw material costs as if you were upgrading frames.

 

So, no frames, only one kind of placeholder blocks that fit every material. No grace period required. No real need for crafting blocks even. Possible to plan your entire house before laying a single stone.

 

Maybe players could even share their base layouts as plan block prefabs?

 

[DatDamnDutchie]

Dang I should read ahead, you guys are doing a great job informing the Johnny Newcomes.

 

"Johnny newcomes' whatever that means, who are playing for 5 years and had servers for that time, relaying what the actual players with 1000's of hours on those servers are wondering. I guess you prefer those people to shut up or at least you could care less it seems. Noted. "Dont question things, loyal fanbase".

 

I'm not interested in mining zinc and copper. There needs to be something people need to do to risk their necks. Its easier than ever to get brass.

 

So it's based on your own preference. It starts to make sense now. Weird you didnt have that feeling with lead then.

Besides, you can have both. Making brass would be a late game thing. But hey, why give people a choice I guess.

 

Why don't you just play A18 and then argue about it. I was able to craft 1000 9mm rounds when I dedicated one game day to that task.

 

Again, its about the fact that it's a mandatory, annoying trip, destroying stuff like cars ... lootable cars. It's about wasting a whole day on just a 1000 casings (which isnt that much lategame) and then after that you have to go even further and hope no one else looted/destroyed that place. It's not infinite you know.

But I guess thats not a problem when you only playtest solo games for 21 gamedays or so.

 

I'd suggest playing on servers sometimes, then you'd see people loot for gun/tool mods, trading them etc.. the whole "looting for brass" is very A10- back when there was little else to loot of value.

Not only are mods a great way to keep the game interesting late-game, it's THE reason to go looting. On top of that you have things now like acid etc, that will keep people looting. You seem to be thinking in 2015.

 

I'm sure people will not riot about being able to make brass, like they did with lead being mine-able.. Oh wait, everyone loved that change.

[Genosis]

"Johnny newcomes' whatever that means, who are playing for 5 years and had servers for that time, relaying what the actual players with 1000's of hours on those servers are wondering. I guess you prefer those people to shut up or at least you could care less it seems. Noted. "Dont question things, loyal fanbase".

 

 

 

So it's based on your own preference. It starts to make sense now. Weird you didnt have that feeling with lead then.

Besides, you can have both. Making brass would be a late game thing. But hey, why give people a choice I guess.

 

 

 

Again, its about the fact that it's a mandatory, annoying trip, destroying stuff like cars ... lootable cars. It's about wasting a whole day on just a 1000 casings (which isnt that much lategame) and then after that you have to go even further and hope no one else looted/destroyed that place. It's not infinite you know.

But I guess thats not a problem when you only playtest solo games for 21 gamedays or so.

 

I'd suggest playing on servers sometimes, then you'd see people loot for gun/tool mods, trading them etc.. the whole "looting for brass" is very A10- back when there was little else to loot of value.

Not only are mods a great way to keep the game interesting late-game, it's THE reason to go looting. On top of that you have things now like acid etc, that will keep people looting. You seem to be thinking in 2015.

 

I'm sure people will not riot about being able to make brass, like they did with lead being mine-able.. Oh wait, everyone loved that change.

 

I know it's not a massive consolation (I like mining, so I'd have loved Zinc/Copper being added) .. but when doing quests, you can completely restore POI's with numerous sources of brass (apartment building with cars, doors, faucets, etc) as an renewable resource through the magic of the traders quests.

 

Not "realistic" (I know how far we are from that ) but POI respawning is definitely a viable long-term strategy for near infinite bullets. If that doesn't change, of course *nervous laughter*

[meganoth]

I also don't like the whole idea of the shape selector. It's just another step on the road to nerfing out any difficulty. There are basically no "survival" elements left. This is the first step in simplifying the "building" aspect out of the game. You don't have to plan out what you need. How many corner shapes, etc. Just grab 10000 blocks and place them and magically turn them into any shape you want. That's not building. That is designing. It's autocad for gaming.

 

So you are saying survival must be menial labor and not use of your brains?

[vicflo]

with the exception of MP, you should be coming out positive on bullets for most POIs T4 and lower. if the doorhandles indicate an actual increase in available brass you should have loads of bullets. if you have a hard time with GP, you should probably focus more on 9mm. the cost/dps ratio is way better with 9mm and a proper handgun.

 

this is the case with all of my 17.x single player worlds. in MP there are always bullet sprayers and wasters and people who scrap or toss brass items.

[Gnomaana]

So you are saying survival must be menial labor and not use of your brains?

 

It can be either, or both. What is left in the game you consider a "survival" aspect of game play? Food/water? Non issues currently. Heat/cold? Non issues currently. I understand at least some things may change still but the trend is to "simplify" game play.

 

I bought the game because of the complexity of elements like crafting to be better at crafting, farming needing tilled/ fertilized ground, managing temps with different clothing, etc. Those are all gone now and much simpler "start it and forget it" mechanisms are in place. Maybe some will go back to more robust systems. If they do, great. If not, I already got WAY more than my 20 bucks worth of fun so I got no major complaints. I'll look forward to their next game.