Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[beerfly]

Prime have pretty cool gameplay style, cool stream boys, game looks better and better.

[Drithyl]

The most simple way is almost always the most elegant solution. Dumbing down is often mistaken for improvement.

 

At this point I'm kind of cringing looking at the wood framed block icons and just want to build with solid wood instead, because building with cobblestone is better because you don't have to upgrade everything and you can see what the hell your building. The only drawback is if you make a mistake.

 

Frames are perfectly fine. You may be cringing from a perspective of trying to streamline everything down to the lowest common denominator but I don't think many people cringe at frames, and the alternative is actually more complicated to pull off.

 

With no frames, you either allow solid blocks to be picked up, which is a bad idea since players could reposition full health blocks in seconds even under a zombie attack, or you don't allow them to be picked up and you still end up with the placing mistakes, except without frames to palliate them.

 

I like building frames quickly and cheaply first to give me an idea of the shape and measurements of the base I'm going to be making, and then replacing them (not upgrading them) with the actual flagstone blocks. Could simply make frames be generic and allow you to upgrade them to either wood or flagstone.

[Thecolours]

Are we going to get a shotgun version of the junk turret in the future?

[Grue]

If the new pathing is having problems because it's a half solid half door block then maybe, at least temporarily, maybe make a jail door that works like a regular door. Those do exist, doesn't need to slide. I just miss having a strong door I can shoot through, I used jail doors more than any other when building in A16. I miss them.

 

That or "just" fix the pathing issue, @Faatal ! (I can only imagine what the actual problem is, assume it stems from it not acting like other doors. In which case I still do not know how difficult a solution would be.)

 

 

It was looked at and discussed. Fixes were attempted. Some model/anim changes. It ended up worse and was neutered to the current state. Maybe we can do something better some day.

 

More importantly the cell door was 2x2 which was nice to have for openings bigger than a 1x2 vault door, but smaller than the 3x2 garage doors.

[Survager]

Why in Navezgane would you want to lower your game stage?

 

Our actions could reduce the threat from zombies. Now the threat is constantly growing.

[KingSlayerGM]

Yeah, same hit points, same cost for all the shapes. It's good enough without overcomplicating the game. Realism isn't necessary here.

[Grue]

My gripe is that cars explode at all. It's bloody difficult to make a car explode unless you replace the seats with barrels of gas.

 

One of my gripes is that an exploding car does less damage than a pipebomb. :/

 

...at least it seems that way regarding damage to zombies.

 

I modded out having cars explode, I do not like having zombies blow up my resources.

[madmole]

Frames are perfectly fine. You may be cringing from a perspective of trying to streamline everything down to the lowest common denominator but I don't think many people cringe at frames, and the alternative is actually more complicated to pull off.

 

With no frames, you either allow solid blocks to be picked up, which is a bad idea since players could reposition full health blocks in seconds even under a zombie attack, or you don't allow them to be picked up and you still end up with the placing mistakes, except without frames to palliate them.

 

I like building frames quickly and cheaply first to give me an idea of the shape and measurements of the base I'm going to be making, and then replacing them (not upgrading them) with the actual flagstone blocks. Could simply make frames be generic and allow you to upgrade them to either wood or flagstone.

 

You would have about a 30 second grace period to pick up a block then it becomes permanent. We could keep wood frames or have scaffolding blocks. Nobody is using frames any more, everyone uses cobblestone because you can clearly see the rotation it is in (frames are hard to tell), it doesn't need immediately updated to offer some protection.

 

Really the only thing good about frames is you can pick it up and block something out. So if we do away with frames, allow a grace period to pick it up again, and add scaffolding blocks for building high structures I think we have a better system. Then allow contextual upgrade material on a hammer so you can upgrade wood straight to reinforced concrete by setting the material to concrete. No more clunky upgrading and wasting tons of materials to reach the best material. No more accidentally upgrading a block to steel and wasting an hour tearing it out. No more breaking a 10000 hit point block only to see one with 5000 take its place.

[madmole]

Are we going to get a shotgun version of the junk turret in the future?

 

Possibly a mod that puts the junk in a spread pattern but that would eat a lot of ammo and be kind of meh IMO.

[madmole]

Our actions could reduce the threat from zombies. Now the threat is constantly growing.

 

If you lower the game stage you lower the quality of loot. Not something most people would want. Turn down the difficulty if you don't like the higher game stages.

[madmole]

Yeah, same hit points, same cost for all the shapes. It's good enough without overcomplicating the game. Realism isn't necessary here.

 

The AI would target your half blocks and it would create a weird exploit.

[DatDamnDutchie]

There is no steel ammo, and no shortage of bullets unless you are lazy.

 

Wait, so whats the deal with brass in A18? Will it be craftable/mineable? Or will there be more brass to loot/scrap?

[Drithyl]

You would have about a 30 second grace period to pick up a block then it becomes permanent. We could keep wood frames or have scaffolding blocks. Nobody is using frames any more, everyone uses cobblestone because you can clearly see the rotation it is in (frames are hard to tell), it doesn't need immediately updated to offer some protection.

 

Really the only thing good about frames is you can pick it up and block something out. So if we do away with frames, allow a grace period to pick it up again, and add scaffolding blocks for building high structures I think we have a better system. Then allow contextual upgrade material on a hammer so you can upgrade wood straight to reinforced concrete by setting the material to concrete. No more clunky upgrading and wasting tons of materials to reach the best material. No more accidentally upgrading a block to steel and wasting an hour tearing it out. No more breaking a 10000 hit point block only to see one with 5000 take its place.

 

The grace period would be a fine solution to misplacing blocks, but it still would not replace the use of frames to first get a visual idea of what you're building by making it out of frames, looking at it, moving frames around, then upgrading them or replacing them with the actual blocks once you've settled down on an exact shape. If the problem you have with frames is that the rotations are hard to see (which is true), then simply change their appearance a bit to prevent that.

[kamer1337]

You would have about a 30 second grace period to pick up a block then it becomes permanent. We could keep wood frames or have scaffolding blocks. Nobody is using frames any more, everyone uses cobblestone because you can clearly see the rotation it is in (frames are hard to tell), it doesn't need immediately updated to offer some protection.

 

Really the only thing good about frames is you can pick it up and block something out. So if we do away with frames, allow a grace period to pick it up again, and add scaffolding blocks for building high structures I think we have a better system. Then allow contextual upgrade material on a hammer so you can upgrade wood straight to reinforced concrete by setting the material to concrete. No more clunky upgrading and wasting tons of materials to reach the best material. No more accidentally upgrading a block to steel and wasting an hour tearing it out. No more breaking a 10000 hit point block only to see one with 5000 take its place.

 

so now cities will be full of towers block on public servers, that will be weird lol

[Dimpy]

You would have about a 30 second grace period to pick up a block then it becomes permanent. We could keep wood frames or have scaffolding blocks. Nobody is using frames any more, everyone uses cobblestone because you can clearly see the rotation it is in (frames are hard to tell), it doesn't need immediately updated to offer some protection.

 

I liked what you guys did with the sod blocks. I think cobblestone would work well with the system you are suggesting. May I suggest that cobblestone be weaker for those thirty seconds to make it slightly less op compared to wood?

 

The cool thing about a deticated wood scaffolding block is that presumably every time I upgrade it, the horizontal support will increase, allowing me to min-max resource usage by playing structural engineer .

[madmole]

Wait, so whats the deal with brass in A18? Will it be craftable/mineable? Or will there be more brass to loot/scrap?

 

There are some perk books that let you harvest door knobs, and more brass/lead from sinks, plus mining is viable again so all the GP and lead you can want. On top of that traders seem to fill any gaps.

[madmole]

The grace period would be a fine solution to misplacing blocks, but it still would not replace the use of frames to first get a visual idea of what you're building by making it out of frames, looking at it, moving frames around, then upgrading them or replacing them with the actual blocks once you've settled down on an exact shape. If the problem you have with frames is that the rotations are hard to see (which is true), then simply change their appearance a bit to prevent that.

 

I don't really like to upgrade them and the extra line of defense mystery hit points to destroying a block isn't that great of a design. I'd prefer a block show various models at hitpoint thresholds rather than you kill a 5k hitpoint block only for another 3k hit point block to appear.

[madmole]

so now cities will be full of towers block on public servers, that will be weird lol

 

What do you mean?

[madmole]

I liked what you guys did with the sod blocks. I think cobblestone would work well with the system you are suggesting. May I suggest that cobblestone be weaker for those thirty seconds to make it slightly less op compared to wood?

 

The cool thing about a deticated wood scaffolding block is that presumably every time I upgrade it, the horizontal support will increase, allowing me to min-max resource usage by playing structural engineer .

 

Cobblestone is more involved than wood to craft, so I don't see any balance issues. You would not upgrade scaffolding, it would be like our frames are now, but it doesn't upgrade, and you could sort of swim in it or climb it.

[Roland]

What do you mean?

 

People would leave their nerdpoles behind instead of picking them back up. But if you keep the scaffolding frames it shouldn’t be an issue as people would use those instead of any solidifying blocks.

[TARCH26]

Ugly roads are back, rectify.

[Drithyl]

I don't really like to upgrade them and the extra line of defense mystery hit points to destroying a block isn't that great of a design. I'd prefer a block show various models at hitpoint thresholds rather than you kill a 5k hitpoint block only for another 3k hit point block to appear.

 

Yeah, I agree that the upgrading system is a little weird, both in the extra materials involved and also in the several stages that blocks go through when destroyed. My point is simply that you should both add a grace period and leave frames in the game, so people can create a skeleton of what they want to build with frames and visualize it.

 

Whether you want to change how those frames upgrade or not allowing them to be upgraded at all is up to you, but frames that can be placed and picked up at any point are a necessity for building.

[Dimpy]

Cobblestone is more involved than wood to craft, so I don't see any balance issues. You would not upgrade scaffolding, it would be like our frames are now, but it doesn't upgrade, and you could sort of swim in it or climb it.

If you're in a dangeous situation, the time to upgrade becomes more of an important factor. The drying time would make it so cobblestone isn't a miracle instant blockade compared to metal or wood.

 

When I said scaffolding, I meant trussing/support.

[Darkening Demise]

Will you bring back the old level system where we shape our characters based on how we play and get rid of this abomination streamlined crap you gave us in Alpha 17? Oblivion (Alpha 16) > Skyrim (Alpha 17).

[Drithyl]

Will you bring back the old level system where we shape our characters based on how we play and get rid of this abomination streamlined crap you gave us in Alpha 17? Oblivion (Alpha 16) > Skyrim (Alpha 17).

 

Mod it. There have already been enough reworks of the level system and it will never make everyone happy. Reworking it each alpha to cater to the people who dislike it is an infinite loop (besides the fact that the devs have stated multiple times that they won't bring back LBD).