Roland Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Roland, the one who enjoys stirring the pot lol. All I ask for is Bear Meat, an iron pot, and a sharp stick to stir her by... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Maybe the AI of zombies in A17 is "not bad".... but it is absolutely inadequate. What is an adequate zombie? ))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA_Q2 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 There are 171 available textures in A17 and only 166 in A16. I agree with you though. Afaik the maximal number of textures is limited to 255 (raising this number would probably require far reaching changes), so there still room for some new textures. I have been talking about paint textures. In game paint textures available to the player. It is nowhere near 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I took a hiatus for A17 design and we hired a guy for that. He's gone and we hired some way better artists than me, so all I do now is design, balance and a bit of technical art and give feedback on art and animation. My focus now is to be the best game designer I can be. Rick and I didn't test together either in A17 (we did every other alpha) because we were so busy, A18 we are committed to doing that again and we'll strike a better balance doing that IMO. Here's a thought ... maybe you guys should spend some time playing the game ... I mean playing as a regular player, not using creative mode or god powers. Maybe try playing on some MP servers. See how the game plays as it currently exists. Then maybe you'd be more in touch with what we're saying about the game, instead of giving us opinions and thoughts based on snippets of game play and exposure to works in progress. I'm sure the works in progress are great, and I'm glad you get to play with them. But playing with them and then telling us you don't know what we're talking about is just insulting. I get that you don't give a skinny rat's ass about insulting us or belittling us ... but it might clue you in to why we're often so bloody freaking angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Roland, the one who enjoys stirring the pot lol. It is legal there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 It also doesn't describe A17.2. But it does describe Alpha 17.0 and 17.1 before faatal committed some of his fixes and adjustments. I've come to discover that some of the complainers have actually never played 17.2 but either quit or reverted back to A16 after deciding they didn't like Alpha 17. When they come on here to push their agenda for change it is all from their memory of giving 17.0 a try-- not realizing that changes were made in 17.2. In A17.2 you do get zombies giving up on long pathways and randomly going into destroy mode. I know this is true from my own observations and I know it is true because I've read posts from players who actually have played 17.2 complaining <shocker> that the zombies aren't as predictable as they used to be and are making dumb choices and they don't like that.... There were obvious changes in 17.2 to the AI. The affect of the change on these base types were subtle though... probably a test run in the area destruction mode. It is enough to cause a slight problem for the ramp-fall cycle builds, but really only if you used weak materials. The incoming waves from different directions was also a nice addition, although the impact of this cannot be fully realized at this time because they just go to their typical behavior once reaching the base at this point in time. From my understanding it has come much further than this... I just don't know if any of it will be coming for 17.3 or if it is being saved for A18. I think that for the most part, we should stop referring to zombie AI as smart or dumb because in the context of AI, they are equivalent. We just need variation and some unpredictable moments. However, I do think that when players build structures that are meant to persuade zombies in certain directions, there should be enough zombies that do what you expect as well. That should be a rewarding experience, and this is probably what those players who enjoy the current AI are defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pille Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I have been talking about paint textures. In game paint textures available to the player. It is nowhere near 100. Trust Pille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 They're tied together (levelling and looting), that's the problem. It's actually a very linear track of progression, which removed the sandbox element almost entirely. Sandbox > Rpg. You /can/ marry them successfully, but they didn't. Yet. Leveled loot is needed otherwise you might never get what you are after and that is cancer. We all know how much fun it was to find forge ahead and minibikes for dip♥♥♥♥s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Any ai can be cheesed. Shrug. What would be cool is if there were a few different ai packages and the Zed's chose from them randomly. Some path, some block break, some climb over each other, etc... That's all doable for regular hordes but I don't think the 7 days hordes follow those rules. You just described what is implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 Yeah A16 had pillar and stilt bases, and A17 has maze and ramp bases. Multiple streamers and videos and personal building myself proves it as fact, as does dozens of others here. Sure you can build any way you want, your argument is its BS because people build to exploit the AI. Yep. They do. Same as A16 so the AI is JUST as cheesy and just as easily circumvented JUST LIKE 16 so I have to ask, if you agreed 16 had exploit bases that work, and 17 has exploit bases that work how is his statement BS? - - - Updated - - - So what was everyone up in arms over in 16 then? Just dont build pillar bases or use iron bar floors. Problem solved. Yet everyone lamented how BAD the AI was in 16. 17 is by far better yes, but I am hopeful that no one thinks the AI is complete and perfect because it isnt.If you want to watch on youtube or others play to find exploits, then you might as well just turn god mode on. I mean I like to solve problems on my own unless I'm stuck, then I might use youtube and google. I just don't think you are in touch with what 8 million people are doing, nobody is. Lets not confuse the hardcore exploiting types with the rest of the world. People who like cheese will cheese. If we plug those holes they will find more. I'd rather focus on bandits. That ramp will be totally cool when they run up it and shoot you in the face lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 It would be helpful as I'm starting to lose faith in the vocal minority and considering reddit for a more sound platform. And you're right ... there is a lot of negative, and not enough positives. I know that it's sometimes easier to talk about what is broken, or perceived to be broken. So ... for broken, I don't think it's any surprise that for me it's the available paints. Been flogging that poor pony since A17 was released. There are some others that bother me ... but not as much as they did right after the release. I'm an old dog, I don't like learning new tricks, and A17 was a massive change. Change isn't necessarily bad, but it does take time to get used to. Some things I didn't think I liked I'm starting to get used to and like. The skill trees are interesting, and i am starting to like them more as I get used to what things do. I wasn't originally a fan of the new farming because it was weird and different ... but I am really beginning to like it. I'd love it if you had to use a hoe or tool to harvest the seeds after you harvest a crop because my hand/eye coordination is utter crap and i'm always punching the seed too. I'd like to see the farming perk expanded so maybe at higher levels you increase the number of seeds you make at once, so like you can make 2 seeds for the same price as 1. I know there's a lot of discussion about the zombie AI ... but it is most definitely better than it was. And zombies detecting you 50 meters below ground on horde night has always been there. I agree it's a stupid mechanic ... because I still think if you are under 50 meters of solid rock, sitting in the dark and not moving the zombies shouldn't know you're there. But ... it's not a deal breaker and it's not anything that's changed for A17, so I don't know why the big deal about it. Would I like y'all to remove that? Yes, Yes i would. Especially since the zombies turn into massive diggity mining zombies on blood moon and can apparently dig through 50 meters of solid rock in the time it takes you to blow your nose. At least in A16 if you were under solid rock and far away from your hatch entry they'd dig a few layers down and then die when the sun came up. Here, they're knocking on your ceiling lickity split. I like the new tree designs, and a lot of the new graphics. I even like some of the new paints ... i just want the other ones back too. You don't have to take away the ones you gave us ... just give the other ones back too. I like the new POIs, even though I'm chicken and don't go into most of them, and the few times I have I've died a horrible death (see above about hand/eye coordination ... and add in a tendency to scream and throw my mouse when startled ... makes it hard to fight or run when you're retrieving your mouse). I love the new quest system, although it makes me sad that the early find the buried treasure ones turn into go into the scary house and bring me back something you'll never be able to retrieve because zombies will fall out of the ceiling on your head and kill you dead quests. But you said you're working on more quest types. I get that this is an early version of a major change. Things will be fixed ... and things will be changed more. I'm looking forward to 17.3 "soon" and 18.0 ... it's interesting to see where the game goes. And I'm sorry if I"ve given the impression that I completely hate it. If I'd completely hated it, I'd just uninstall it and move on with my life. I think the fact that people are so dug into the game and involved in the game is a good sign ... at least as far as the quality and perceived potential of the game. Even if it does often feel like you're being drug naked over broken glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamida Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 All I ask for is Bear Meat, an iron pot, and a sharp stick to stir her by... Good luck with that...I think Gup has been asking for sticks for forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 I don't get how some people have hundreds or even thousands of hours into a game they paid $30 tops for years ago can still complain so hard. I get if your not a fan of Alpha 17 dropping in and and throwing a complaint since the dev's are here and reply back. What I don't get is complaint after complaint from the same dozen people whom all probably have gotten more than there money's worth years ago. I was an xbox player (not a great version but got my monies worth) and upgraded my pc specifically to play A17 & I enjoy it. If you play it correct it can get pretty difficult and even a few jump scares here & there. If you manipulate the AI or take the easy path to the loot area's in the poi's then of course its easy & boring to you. But it took you how many hours to learn those easy paths? I'm the guy that follows the dev lighted path and likes falling into those zombie traps to finally make it to the wonderful loot at the end & because of this wonderful loot the old school Working stiffs/Shot gun store ect.. are no longer needed. To end with... I can't wait for alpha 17.3...18...19.. & gold it'll be fun for me, sorry to those whom lost hope (or as I like to say burned out after 2,000+ hours). It gets a little ridiculous to expect a game to be fun after 2k hours. That is like me saying to the Skyrim modders they have lost their creativeness because their mods are no longer keeping me addicted to Skyrim. Its not Skyrim, its not the lack of good mods, its that I have 2000 hours and no update or mod will create that first sense of awe that sucked you in. Only a sequel can do that, or a new game entirely. Its natural for a game to lose its luster, but typically they do this a few months after hitting the market or even in weeks or days, depending on the game. Like I have 550 hours or so in rust. After 2 years I started playing again, got about 50 hours more in, and I'm totally caught up. There is some new content, but it can be all fully experienced in 10 hours or less, so its a reality that a ship will sail on everything entertaining in your life. Its just human nature. I get some people don't like changes. I played quake 1 every day for 8 hours for 2 years. I was amazing at that game and could clean out a whole server in 30 seconds. 30 frags in 30 seconds. I was always number 1. But, Quake 2 came out and I hated the net code. Q3 they lost the cool theme and had eyeball dudes and jump pads and I was out. That crap lost the feeling the original had. It happens. Its inevitable that games you love might evolve into trash. Its just a matter of personal preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 I'm sorry but I really don't see how the new gun parts is a good idea. Either give us back the real gun parts: stock, barrel.. or just don't have gun parts and have broken guns. To me this is just another bad idea that will be reversed again in the following alpha. I don't see the point and it is a very ugly system. "Hello, I'd like to assemble my own desktop computer so I am looking for parts" "Sure thing, just grab a big bag and fill it with anything" "Do I need to take any specific parts?" "Nono just grab anything really, the more the better" So just use 50 mechanical parts, wood and duct tape? No thanks. The hook is you find a unique trinket to craft a gun with, not the name of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA_Q2 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 "Hello, i'd like to assemble a vehicle". See first two pictures here: https://www.heise.de/make/meldung/Maker-Faire-Hannover-lockt-mit-Metallkreationen-und-Workshops-zum-Mitmachen-4128302.html - - - Updated - - - Tune into A19+ then, now is NOT the time. *cry* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecolours Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Yes the complaints about 17's zombie AI being bad continue to boggle my mind, when you look at how bad they were before 17. Overall, it's obviously better. But, the problem is the zombies are to smart to be zombies. Like if they breakthrough rows of spikes on horde night and create a pathway that's the only path they will follow for the rest of the night. Following the path of least resistance is not something a zombie should be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombiepoptard Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I actually think that a17 is good BUT wall textures look too grungy. There is a lot of visual noise and the paint chipped wall textures are not helping. It looks like concrete instead of drywall. that's probably my only big grip with a17. You should make them look subtly dirty so that it lessons up on that visual noise that voxel games create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FA_Q2 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 17.3 very very soon. 12 bugs left. RWG ...... *runs out the backdoor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Overall, it's obviously better. But, the problem is the zombies are to smart to be zombies. Like if they breakthrough rows of spikes on horde night and create a pathway that's the only path they will follow for the rest of the night. Following the path of least resistance is not something a zombie should be doing. That's quite debatable :-) Pretty much everything in the universe follows the path of least resistance unless acted upon by another force, why should zombies be any different? There should probably be a reasonably tight limit on how far away they can sense the easy path* but almost all of the pop culture zombie films have them trying to cram through a door en-masse instead of spreading themselves out and pounding on walls. *I haven't played 17.2 long enough to study the AI updates, this may already happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktr Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Yep, just did a horde night about 10 minutes ago. The zombies mostly go where we want, but they also took out a side of ramp (it was basic wood) and you can see them stopping on the path and going into 'destruct mode', which I personally like to cure with enough arrows or bullets to the head. The new AI does have fun variation and all the updates and new things that have been talked about/shown are very exciting. I play with a group of 6-8 and I'm probably the only one who looks on the forums much. We've all had our gripes about A17, but overall love it and new stuff coming down the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 @Joel, why in the game there is an indicator "wind power"? What does it affect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 You troll MM! These things have long been in need of models! Until we get performance under control a billboard will have to do. We updated their art just a couple of alphas ago they aren't as bad as they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 You should make a video talking about post-gold plans, because it seems like people don't get that finishing alpha doesn't mean you will stop making the game better. They think once alpha is over the game will be too. Trankitas. Not a good idea, we're still obligated to do all the KS goals, making more promises before those are completed just seems like a jerk move. I'd rather go black and unveil new stuff when its ready or when its at least a presentable state than make a roadmap of bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 Please tell, what resolution the new HD icons will have ? Not repeating myself. Pay attention in class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I don't want to contribute to any more negativity, but these posts that dismiss complaints from veterans with 2000+ hours are insane. The argument that players with 2000+ hrs are going to have less enjoyment is completely valid. However, you cannot use that as a basis to dismiss someone's opinion. Where exactly is the cutoff point before you are silenced? Is it 1000 hrs? 500? 100? How many hours can I play before I have to worry about if I'm starting to enter the threshold of "don't matter anymore". Please hear me anybody with an opinion... never speak of how much you have played the game. You may think that it gives you stronger influence, but it is the opposite. Keep this information to yourself if you want a voice at all. Unbelievable. Can we listen to thoughts others have without dodging issues by pointing out some statistic of objective relevancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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