"Combat is feeling better than ever"?

[AiRJacobs]

At 42:58, in MM's A17 video, he says, "Combat is feeling better than ever". Based on what was in the video, the combat is worse than it's ever been, especially on DAY 1. What we saw should have been WEEK 2 difficulty. I honestly couldn't tell if he was being serious or just joking.

 

Here is what I saw on DAY 1:

• Now harder to back away from zombie engagements (increased chance to get hit/stunned)
  
• Multiple headshots to kill zombies, even with a shotgun (which are rare)
  
• Quicker stamina degradation (to decrease melee effectiveness)
  
• No way to know if a downed zombies is dead or just stunned
  
• Extremely low chance of dropped loot (no incentive to fight anymore, just avoid)
  

 

The result was MM getting destroyed by a couple of DAY 1 zombies, that should have been WEEK 2, and barely getting through one dungeon crawl. It seemed like every zombie engagement resulted in him getting stunned and/or getting almost killed, by zombies he unloaded on with arrows, shotgun shells, and blunt force. At 43:52, he even said "Sometimes you gotta take one to land one". No, that is just bad game design. He says that he is just "rusty". Ok, so let's assume the worst. Imagine dropping a brand new player into this game. They are gonna have a terrible first impression.

 

This is how it should be on the DEFAULT setting. DAY 1 should be a walk in the park. You see some zombies, and a couple of hits should take 'em out with a super low chance of you getting stunned. The rest of the week gets harder, but anyone with two hands and a brain should make it through easily without a single death. Now, week 2 is where it actually get's challenging. What we saw in the video SHOULD have been WEEK 2. I'm just lookin' out for the new players here. As for myself, I play the game with modded difficulty to make it insane.

[mr.devolver]

Relax, it's Alpha 17. By the time they finish the game, it will all change drastically several times like it always does.

[RestInPieces]

While I do agree on some points, like how bullet-sponging or increasing the chance to be stunned are nothing more than cheap ways to increase difficulty, I believe that zombies should absolutely - and I can't stress enough how important this is, NOT be something to be chased after/looted/coveted/farmed etc.

 

The incentive to fight should stem from the need to survive, not the short-lived need to farm and loot. Except if you are actively trying to make a bland game. Not to mention that almost every item in the game is already very easily acquired without zombies having to drop it.

[jdifran]

Madmole admitted he was out of practice, and his playstyle on Day 1 was ... suboptimal to say the least. I would not judge A17 combat based on his video.

 

He ignored the starter quest (never made his bedroll even after his first death), didn't make a club (he found one), waited way too long to make a bow, and never made enough arrows. He went into the basement of that house but didn't use stealth well, then fired a shotgun and woke the whole house up. Had he done the starter quest he might have fared better, would have had a little protection from the plant fiber clothing, and would probably have earned some perk points that he could have used to enhance his melee combat. (Roland said in another thread that you can complete the starter quest and earn some perk points by 9am on Day 1.)

 

I've got thousands of hours invested, and there was nothing in the video that concerned me. It was just kind of hard to watch Joel play like a noob.

[TheProphet]

I always hated how wrong the distance that zombies can inflict damage upon was, i mean the animation of their arms lifting and attacking happened and you would be at a safe distance and still get hurt, that sucks and hope they fixed it.

[Guppycur]

Yeh Joel is showing as many features and things in the time frame allotted... Y'all really wanna see him play slow and smart?

 

...his vids aren't likely how he plays, when he's playing.

[Viktoriusiii]

Totally disagree with you.

The harder the better.

While zombies should give you at least SOME loot (especially non farmable like brass) they shouldnt be a ressource. They are the main threat of the game.

They should be bulletsponges, fast enough to always be a threat, and be avoided unless you are already pretty advanced and want to level.

[Cadamier]

: <HEAVY SNIP>

[*]Now harder to back away from zombie engagements (increased chance to get hit/stunned)

 

Maybe you should be running through the zeds like many of us have done for sometime now?

 

I'll reserve the right to comment about A17 once I've played it a few times

[canadianbluebeer]

The no run/trot backwards IS gonna be a big thing for gameplay changes.

 

I want to see how it works though when playing a bit better than MM did.

 

[eidobunny]

If it's harder to back away (meaning the hitbox is stretched out more toward the player) I bet jousting still works, which means meleeing zombies is going to be easier than ever for people who know what they're doing lmao

[Roland]

Melee is riskier. You will get hit at times especially at first.

 

In and Out: Backpedaling can only be done at walking speed. Until you are used to it you will take hits.

 

Headshot: You have to be perfectly accurate. If the crosshairs isn't on the head at the moment of impact (not when you click the mouse button) you'll miss. This makes the power moves tougher because the time between clicking the mouse and the actual impact is longer so you have to keep that head right in the middle until the moment of impact so you don't miss.

 

Jousting: Zombies can hit as they move instead of hit or move as they have in the past. Jousting will get you clocked sometimes as you run past.

 

That being said people that I watch often get much closer than they need to when they melee the zombies. You can hit them from further away than you often think. All melee tactics are going to require an adaptation curve.

[Viktoriusiii]

Headshot: You have to be perfectly accurate. If the crosshairs isn't on the head at the moment of impact (not when you click the mouse button) you'll miss.

 

This only counts for melee right? Not for ranged weapons... im just asking... because I have seen TFPs decide weirder things

[eidobunny]

Headshot: You have to be perfectly accurate. If the crosshairs isn't on the head at the moment of impact (not when you click the mouse button) you'll miss.

 

Is this true? In past alphas I had to aim well over the head to get a headshot, otherwise I'd somehow be hitting their giant chest muscles or something

[Roland]

True as of yesterday. That’s not to say the hitboxes can’t get borked but right now they are dead on accurate. And yes all of what I wrote is in regards to melee. I’m on topic.

[JCrook1028]

Yeh Joel is showing as many features and things in the time frame allotted... Y'all really wanna see him play slow and smart?

 

...his vids aren't likely how he plays, when he's playing.

 

Oh how I wish that were true. That would then mean that he actually plays his own game occasionally to see what/how things need to be changed. He said in the video tho he has not played since A16 was in experimental. How do you make and improve a game when you don't ever play it to know how it woprks/is balanced?

[KanedaSyndrome]

I fail to understand how an arrow/shot to the head doesn't 1 hit kill a zombie. It should. Zombies should be dangerous because there are many of them, not be MMO damage sponges. Head trauma should almost always be 1 hit kill except on specials.

[Viktoriusiii]

I fail to understand how an arrow/shot to the head doesn't 1 hit kill a zombie. It should. Zombies should be dangerous because there are many of them, not be MMO damage sponges. Head trauma should almost always be 1 hit kill except on specials.

 

this highly depends on what kind of zombie it is.

If its just a human that wants to eat brains... sure.

If its a risen dead... i dont think an arrow does much damage.

If its a human infected by parasite (uroboros) "killing" the host would simply stunt them and maybe starve the virus long term.

 

But this is some virus specifically engineered (as far as I/we know) to infect humans to make them unstoppable, meaning you probably have to do more then just hit them in the brain... since most people die from shock of the pain... a human without pain could survive an arrow in the brain if it doesnt sever the spinal cord or damage other important parts to movement.

 

If you want a "1 shot-1kill" zombie youll have to go with walkers from walking dead... but these zombies are not that kind of zombie.

[merlinfire]

this highly depends on what kind of zombie it is.

If its just a human that wants to eat brains... sure.

If its a risen dead... i dont think an arrow does much damage.

If its a human infected by parasite (uroboros) "killing" the host would simply stunt them and maybe starve the virus long term.

 

But this is some virus specifically engineered (as far as I/we know) to infect humans to make them unstoppable, meaning you probably have to do more then just hit them in the brain... since most people die from shock of the pain... a human without pain could survive an arrow in the brain if it doesnt sever the spinal cord or damage other important parts to movement.

 

If you want a "1 shot-1kill" zombie youll have to go with walkers from walking dead... but these zombies are not that kind of zombie.

 

you're grossly overthinking it...."shoot the zombies in the head" has been a common zombie trope at minimum throughout the whole craze that started with "Zombie Survival Guide"

[Darthjake]

We really need to be able to block attacks.

 

Yeah, I was cringing at the way MM was playing too, but you gotta take it in context, he's showing up features, not really playing the game. Although I lol'd at his reaction to the chromed shotgun. And how lucky is he really? A shotgun and a mining pick on day 1? Damn MM, you need to go to play the lottery or something once a week, just sayin'.

[toores]

Yeh Joel is showing as many features and things in the time frame allotted... Y'all really wanna see him play slow and smart?

 

...his vids aren't likely how he plays, when he's playing.

 

I actually would like to see him play without talking. He really can't talk and play at the same time and most of what he's saying is actually obvious. So if he just played and concentrated on the game we would see more of the game and it's mechanics because he would get more things done.

[Roland]

We really need to be able to block attacks.

 

Yeah, I was cringing at the way MM was playing too, but you gotta take it in context, he's showing up features, not really playing the game. Although I lol'd at his reaction to the chromed shotgun. And how lucky is he really? A shotgun and a mining pick on day 1? Damn MM, you need to go to play the lottery or something once a week, just sayin'.

 

The loot is better in A17. Whole guns instead of parts. I've found a whole gun of some type almost every restart. It's pretty awesome.

[SylenThunder]

Oh how I wish that were true. That would then mean that he actually plays his own game occasionally to see what/how things need to be changed. He said in the video tho he has not played since A16 was in experimental. How do you make and improve a game when you don't ever play it to know how it woprks/is balanced?

There are other people that work on that aspect. It's not like he's the only developer. Each person has their own field they work in.

[Druga Runda]

I like harder, but dislike bullet sponge principles, so... wait and see. Seems too many incentives to just disengage treat the game like Thief series.

[Kamouille]

Oh how I wish that were true. That would then mean that he actually plays his own game occasionally to see what/how things need to be changed. He said in the video tho he has not played since A16 was in experimental. How do you make and improve a game when you don't ever play it to know how it woprks/is balanced?

 

He opens the game everyday, but it's work not play. Telling if the game works well or is balanced is the work of testers. Madmole's more a graphic designer, his day to day job doesn't involve playing. But he does play just before every alpha release to get the feeling of how the game runs. It would'nt make sense for him to play in between.

 

Anyway that's just the beginning, we've got minimum two weeks of him playing before release

[Pizzalicious]

ProTip: dont go in buildings Day 1