"Combat is feeling better than ever"?

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Dead Island is great, it has the best zombie apocalypse atmosphere. And the zombies look awesome. Melee combat is great too, but there was not enough gun play for my taste. Still, I absolutely loved it.

 

Really? I might check that one out then - because 7 Days to Die has far too much gun play for my taste.

[HungryZombie]

Really? I might check that one out then - because 7 Days to Die has far too much gun play for my taste.

 

I think it's worth it. You can curb stomp the zombies, throw knives at them, powerslam them, etc. Very engaging combat.

[Kubikus]

Really? I might check that one out then - because 7 Days to Die has far too much gun play for my taste.

There are guns, but I think the problem is that they and ammo are very expensive. And rare, possibly. The game is worth playing in any case, if you're a fan of the zombie apocalypse. The atmosphere is just brilliant.

 

In 7dtd, just fyi, you can also play without using guns or any ranged weapons.

[saulysw]

That's not true.

Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)

 

Backflips confirmed!!!

[toores]

Dying Light has really cool melee combat and overall atmosphere.

[AiRJacobs]

Some of you understood my point, but it seems like a lot of you did not.

 

We, the experienced players, can hold our own on the hardest difficulties without issue. I have no doubt I will do just fine with A17, and will probably enjoy it. However, imagine being a new player, dropped into the game. First impressions are going to be filled with rage due to horrid inconsistency, and an extremely unforgiving combat system. The point I was trying to make is that on DEFAULT difficulty, this game should not be this unbalanced in terms of combat. You want your super hardcore mode where zombies are always running and take 5 headshots? Fine, crank up the difficulty like I do. BUT, it should not be THAT hard to take out a couple of zombies on DAY 1 on DEFAULT. And before you use the "IT'S AN ALPHA" card,... yeah, I know it's an alpha, which is why I am giving feedback. It's an Alpha, so this is the time where issues like this are ironed out. Please, try to understand what I am saying.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Some of you understood my point, but it seems like a lot of you did not.

 

We, the experienced players, can hold our own on the hardest difficulties without issue. I have no doubt I will do just fine with A17, and will probably enjoy it. However, imagine being a new player, dropped into the game. First impressions are going to be filled with rage due to horrid inconsistency, and an extremely unforgiving combat system. The point I was trying to make is that on DEFAULT difficulty, this game should not be this unbalanced in terms of combat. You want your super hardcore mode where zombies are always running and take 5 headshots? Fine, crank up the difficulty like I do. BUT, it should not be THAT hard to take out a couple of zombies on DAY 1 on DEFAULT. And before you use the "IT'S AN ALPHA" card,... yeah, I know it's an alpha, which is why I am giving feedback. It's an Alpha, so this is the time where issues like this are ironed out. Please, try to understand what I am saying.

 

I don't think you're correct here.

 

New players will discover that zombies are difficult to fight, and they'll correctly think "zombies in this game are dangerous, I need to avoid them rather than fight them - at least until my character gets higher level".

 

You seem to be projecting your own attitude - that you should be killing zombies from day one for their loot and xp - onto new players. That attitude is a hold-over from previous editions, and new players will be coming the game without it.

[bloom_meister]

I don't think you're correct here.

 

New players will discover that zombies are difficult to fight, and they'll correctly think "zombies in this game are dangerous, I need to avoid them rather than fight them - at least until my character gets higher level".

 

You seem to be projecting your own attitude - that you should be killing zombies from day one for their loot and xp - onto new players. That attitude is a hold-over from previous editions, and new players will be coming the game without it.

 

The problem with your assessment is that, going from previous Alphas, the vast majority of people that will play A17 will be current players so yes, we do 'hold over' our expectations.

[meganoth]

The problem with your assessment is that, going from previous Alphas, the vast majority of people that will play A17 will be current players so yes, we do 'hold over' our expectations.

 

Nice cup of tea is talking about the impressions new players get. That has nothing to do with what current players think, irrespective of their number.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

The problem with your assessment is that, going from previous Alphas, the vast majority of people that will play A17 will be current players so yes, we do 'hold over' our expectations.

 

And there's nothing wrong with that (well, assuming you are aware that those expectations aren't a good fit for A17).

 

However, I was addressing AirJacob's claim that new players would come into the game with those same expectations and would therefore ragequit the game because it doesn't fit them. I was saying that new players wouldn't have come into the game with experience of previous alphas and therefore wouldn't have those expectations. They'd be coming in tabula rasa and to them, the idea of it not being easy to fight zombies at the start of the game would simply be "the way things work" rather than "they've changed it and now it sucks".

[Gazz]

AirJ isn't completely wrong but.... on default difficulty, being careful and watching your range, you can kill the "starter zombies" with your bare fists. We really can't make it any easier.

 

Recommended would be to getadamnclub or getadamnbowandarrows and the tutorial quest tells you to do just that.

 

If you do not follow the recommended steps you will probably end up as walking dinner... eventually.

Well, it says "Survival", not "Guaranteed Survival".

 

Whether players want to kill zombies or not really depends on the player. There simply is no telling.

[AiRJacobs]

And there's nothing wrong with that (well, assuming you are aware that those expectations aren't a good fit for A17).

 

However, I was addressing AirJacob's claim that new players would come into the game with those same expectations and would therefore ragequit the game because it doesn't fit them. I was saying that new players wouldn't have come into the game with experience of previous alphas and therefore wouldn't have those expectations. They'd be coming in tabula rasa and to them, the idea of it not being easy to fight zombies at the start of the game would simply be "the way things work" rather than "they've changed it and now it sucks".

 

My assessment on the combat difficulty has nothing to do with expectations. It is simply a bad system. I can draw analogies to other games like, Dead Space. The first Dead Space game had a system of a few, but extremely deadly enemies you had to fight at any given time. However, the game started you off with simpler enemies that were easiest to kill, gave you the proper tools to do it, AND gave you active tips and hints on how to best take out enemies. Also LOOT, that was applicable to taking out more enemies was common on the default settings. The game was just all around balanced, and fair on the DEFAULT difficulty. 7 Days To Die, however, is very unclear on how combat works and is extremely unforgiving when compared to Dead Space on, again, the DEFAULT difficulty. 7 Days To Die is clearly trying to mimic the Dead Space enemy style, where they are few, but deadly. However, and I will say it again, until you can't forget it, the starting DEFAULT DIFFICULTY in A17 of 7 DAYS TO DIE, is where Dead Space's HARD difficulty is. It takes way too many hits to take down a DAY 1 zombie, as a new player. The game is just not balanced at all, and I don't know why you can't see this.

[Scyris]

I've been around since the Pre-Alpha version of the game, and I can 100% confirm this. Usually, when a bunch of people don't like something, they'll all speak about it at once, giving the impression that no one likes the changes.

 

This doesn't mean, however, that their concerns shouldn't be taken in consideration, as they're also players of the game. Personally, I think there are currently a couple of the new additions that I don't think are a good idea or change. I'll reserve my final judgement for the release of the update, but there are already quite a number of arguments that explain why those certain changes don't seem like good decisions.

 

Combat, on the other hand, is one of the changes that I actually like. I like the power attacks and I like the fact that fighting zombies won't be so gimmicky anymore now that the backpedalling trick isn't as effective.

 

I just hope the power attacks are worth the windup/stam use. for example the ones on ravenhearst mod mostly aren't worth using, till very late game when you can get near infinite stam regen, headshot mult goes from on average x7 to x10-11 on a power attack, but said power attack uses almost 4 times the stamina to do, compared to a normal one. Much more efficent to swing twice for the head and do more combined damage for less stamina, exception being if a power attack would result in a 1 hit knockdown/stun.

 

Can't judge how useful the power attacks are until we actually get it and can look at the xml's to see the damage change, assuming its in there that is.

[Scyris]

I wasn't overly impressed with the game play from madmole, But, I'm going to reserve judgement until I play it.

 

On horde night I set up a bunch of spike traps and have a catwalk and run around whacking zombies, using the catwalk if I get hurt to much or overwhelmed... which I by far find more fun than shooting them. That just got boring to me. Based on game play changes, it seems my current play style, may be something I have to change which I am not excited about.

 

Higher difficulty with bullet sponge zombies was just annoyingly boring so I only played on warrior. And I agree as well that one shot with an arrow or bullet should take out most zombies as well. I've said in other threads, regardless of the "quality" of a gun the bullet going through a brain is a bullet going through the brain.

 

I find gun play in the game was so boring and I always played with the mindset that noise from guns should bring more zombies so I avoided using them on my "game play".

 

Hopefully, the zombie hits will line up with the swings at least. It's plain crap if it's a random hit the game just applies based on proximity. I'm pretty sure all will agree that if a person/zombie or whatever is throwing a swing, you're not running right into it, you'd avoid it.

 

I'm fine with zombies dropping less, but at the same time, that certainly makes it less likely for me to want to kill them, which again was a huge enjoyment I got from the game (spiked club is my favorite weapon). Why waste resources on mobs if they yield nothing? Again here I "play" with the mindset that one less zombie in the world is a good thing. Trying to reclaim the world. While I hope to still play that way, I guess it will depend on how much I enjoy the new melee mechanic.

 

The game does look more beautiful, what's the word on loading and stutters that were so prevalent in previous build?

 

And regardless of how A17 turns out, I've gotten way more enjoyment and my monies worth out of this game than any other game I've played.

 

Thats the truth, about the value of the game, I've got more playtime on 7 days to die than anything else I have on steam, 1603 Hours and counting. Think I got the game around when A9-10 came out and it was on sale too.

[meganoth]

My assessment on the combat difficulty has nothing to do with expectations. It is simply a bad system. I can draw analogies to other games like, Dead Space. The first Dead Space game had a system of a few, but extremely deadly enemies you had to fight at any given time. However, the game started you off with simpler enemies that were easiest to kill, gave you the proper tools to do it, AND gave you active tips and hints on how to best take out enemies. Also LOOT, that was applicable to taking out more enemies was common on the default settings. The game was just all around balanced, and fair on the DEFAULT difficulty. 7 Days To Die, however, is very unclear on how combat works and is extremely unforgiving when compared to Dead Space on, again, the DEFAULT difficulty. 7 Days To Die is clearly trying to mimic the Dead Space enemy style, where they are few, but deadly. However, and I will say it again, until you can't forget it, the starting DEFAULT DIFFICULTY in A17 of 7 DAYS TO DIE, is where Dead Space's HARD difficulty is. It takes way too many hits to take down a DAY 1 zombie, as a new player. The game is just not balanced at all, and I don't know why you can't see this.

 

I don't know if 7D tries to mimic Dead Space, but is it possibly in DS to run away from the enemies and still progress?

 

Apart from that, yes, 7D is not balanced yet and maybe difficulty levels have to be adjusted. Still, there are games out there like Dark Souls, games that simply don't cater to the casual gamer. And they have considerable success, even in the mass market.

[Scyris]

That's not true.

Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)

 

I'll still prefer the crossbow over guns, unless they nerfed the hell out of the crossbow. Even with them getting silencers in A17, I just find the ammo for the only guns worth using (Sniper rifle/hunting rifle/Ak47) eats up way to much gunpowder. No point to the pistol or shotgun, when 1 crossbow bolt to the head does the job. Meanwhile shotgun/pisol takes several headshots. I mostly kill sleepers in stealth in poi's, crossbow is near silent, and usually one hit kills them once you get a decent quality one with the 2x sneak attack bonuses. Pistol will only one shot kill non-fatty zombies from stealth I notice, and the shotgun, its so loud that you might as well forget about stealth... I'd kill for a shotgun silencer, They DO exist.

[Scyris]

This has to be the most emotionally mature response this forum has seen in a long time.

 

The rest of the bitchin' kiddies should take note... don't pan it until you've played it. In Pimps We Trust.

 

Yeah there are a few systems thats new that I don't care for. Like dungeon poi's, it already takes too long as it is to loot poi's don't make it worse. I don't mind if they were rare and full of loot, but if they are common I can see me just busting the walls down the second time I come across one.

 

I am worried about the power attacks, I've seen several mods put in power attacks with melee, but it almost always ends up not being worth using, usually due to way too high of a stamina cost for too low of a benefit.

 

The health/stamina bars missing parts of it is going to bug the hell out of me. I'd prefer the old system myself. I'll probally adjust, but I hated the radiation system in fallout 4 as it visually lowered the size of the hp bar with an obnoxious red bar.

 

Zombies not having much loot I am torn on, its really only gonna bother me with the fat zombies and the soldier/hazmat ones as those were the ones that usually had decent loot.

[Kattla]

That's not true.

Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)

 

No they don't. Arrows and (explosive) crossbow bolts kill zombies. Guns and related perks are just a waste of points.

[Gamida]

That's not true.

Guns kill zombies. Without mods and skills you just won't be Deadpool, killing 3 enemies during a backflip. =)

 

Guns don't kill zombies. People kill zombies.

[Nugetti]

• Now harder to back away from zombie engagements (increased chance to get hit/stunned)
  
• Multiple headshots to kill zombies, even with a shotgun (which are rare)
  
• Quicker stamina degradation (to decrease melee effectiveness)
  
• No way to know if a downed zombies is dead or just stunned
  
• Extremely low chance of dropped loot (no incentive to fight anymore, just avoid)
  

Hmm, my 2 cents:

 

I'm kind of 50-50 on the backwards speed. It will probably make players steer towards ranged weapons, since melee will be harder at first. Perhaps it will be manageable (as in not getting hit in return) when you get used to it.

 

The stun mechanic has always been really annoying to me, slowing the player to a snails' pace. An arm swing / punch or whatever the zombies now do should do some damage and maybe throw off the players' aim - not taser them into semi-incapacitation. Hopefully in the future zombies will have other ways of slowing the player down. Perhaps grabbing the player, or some sort of tackle move to try and stagger them - anything to slow the prey down and grab a bite.

 

As of A16.4, a good blow from a decent melee weapon, let alone a shotgun, will drop the basic zombies in one hit to the head if the player has good enough skills in that weapon category. Imo that's how it should be, atleast when it comes to melee weapons - the wielder needs to be skilled to cause that kind of damage.

 

Stamina degradation is pretty annoying when you start a new character, but more so when travelling on foot or doing resource gathering. In combat it never bothered me too much.

 

I actually like the mechanic of not knowing if the zombie is dead or not.

Before, the certain sound or animation the zombies made when dying (and the loot prompt) was a sure way of knowing that you can focus on the next target - now it'll require more caution when dealing with multiple zombies in close quarters. Should make for some tense moments.

 

The loot thing we'll have to see. Tbh it was pretty annoying after you dealt with a wandering horde around your base and they turned into identical gore blocks - the whole "did I check that one already..?" is wasted time. That aspect should be a lot better since loot is a separate thing on the ground. We'll have to wait and see if the quantity and quality of the loot is sufficient.

[Roland]

My assessment on the combat difficulty has nothing to do with expectations. It is simply a bad system. I can draw analogies to other games like, Dead Space. The first Dead Space game had a system of a few, but extremely deadly enemies you had to fight at any given time. However, the game started you off with simpler enemies that were easiest to kill, gave you the proper tools to do it, AND gave you active tips and hints on how to best take out enemies. Also LOOT, that was applicable to taking out more enemies was common on the default settings. The game was just all around balanced, and fair on the DEFAULT difficulty. 7 Days To Die, however, is very unclear on how combat works and is extremely unforgiving when compared to Dead Space on, again, the DEFAULT difficulty. 7 Days To Die is clearly trying to mimic the Dead Space enemy style, where they are few, but deadly. However, and I will say it again, until you can't forget it, the starting DEFAULT DIFFICULTY in A17 of 7 DAYS TO DIE, is where Dead Space's HARD difficulty is. It takes way too many hits to take down a DAY 1 zombie, as a new player. The game is just not balanced at all, and I don't know why you can't see this.

 

There are two settings below default difficulty that new players can choose. Maybe, for their pride, TFP should just call the lowest difficulty level "default" so nobody feels bad about lowering the difficulty to "easy". It's nice that all the potentially new players have guardian angels looking after their well being but my guess is that they will be just fine just as new players have been just fine since the inception of this game.

 

New players are new to this game but probably experienced gamers if they were able to add this game to a steam library. Please, anyone do speak up if this game was your virgin experience into the world of video games...

 

But even if 7 Days to Die is the one to pop cherries there is a first day tutorial quest that gives them tools. They will learn the range at which they can hit zombies in melee and not get hit back. I only ever get hit when I make an error and get too close. When I am being skillful and careful I never get hit in A17 zombie melee action. I afford new players to this game and virginal players overall the respect that they can learn and figure things out.

 

The system is good and it is learnable and it is satisfying. Don't use "new people" as a tool to get something you personally don't want to adapt to change back. New people will be just fine. It's the one's who want things to forever remain the same that are cranky...

[Gazz]

I believe on console they re-labeled the buttons to "1 level lower".

[Gamida]

-Snip_

New players are new to this game but probably experienced gamers if they were able to add this game to a steam library. Please, anyone do speak up if this game was your virgin experience into the world of video games...

-Snippity Snip-

 

This game was my first experience with Steam. Before this I had just downloaded demos and shareware. Got grossly addicted to those hidden object games. Before that my games were Leisure Suit Larry, SpaceQuest, PoliceQuest, KingsQuest, (Addname)Quest, etc. So that is how much I wanted the game I loaded on steam and downloaded the game after not playing a serious game for many a year.

[TheProphet]

Dead Island is great, it has the best zombie apocalypse atmosphere. And the zombies look awesome. Melee combat is great too, but there was not enough gun play for my taste. Still, I absolutely loved it.

 

Yeah, it is the reference in how to do things right for any zombie fps.

 

I think 7dtd devs need to hire an additional artist or coder or animator something, to improve the impacts and how it feels. Right now it's just too stiff, there's something wrong, it's not fluid enough, the weapons don't feel powerful, neither fireguns, it feels as if you are trying to take down a tree rather than something that's made off weak meat and bones. I understand there are levels to the game but there was an EXP system too in Dead Island the and weapons feel awesome since level 1.

[SylenThunder]

Yeah, it is the reference in how to do things right for any zombie fps.

 

I think 7dtd devs need to hire an additional artist or coder or animator something, to improve the impacts and how it feels. Right now it's just too stiff, there's something wrong, it's not fluid enough, the weapons don't feel powerful, neither fireguns, it feels as if you are trying to take down a tree rather than something that's made off weak meat and bones. I understand there are levels to the game but there was an EXP system too in Dead Island the and weapons feel awesome since level 1.

The problem with this post, is that you're using a16 as a reference, which is no longer valid in this discussion.