SnowDog1942 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 If its new pre-made maps like navezgane, i'd not bother me much as I always play random gen anyway and have no use for premade maps. Not a big fan of survival games that insist on static maps, once you learn it, the fun exploration aspect goes away. Its why I won't use Navezgane, no fun for me if I know where everything is. Exactly. thats the primary reason why games like the forest arent fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 This came across as exceptionally harsh and you should consider re-wording it. However, in light of this particular sentence, let me give you some free education. TFP is an indie studio working on one product right now. As per the dates given in their kickstarter, they are currently several YEARS behind schedule for both beta and final releases. They are implimenting things that were in the stretch goals as "post release" features. As such, they should absolutely be focusing only on the one game. Future products shouldn't even be considered at this juncture. This is why people are getting annoyed, and probably also why they got annoyed over the prospect of DLC (for the record, I figured Joel was talking about new maps in regards to DLC, and I thought that was a fantastic idea). You may want to consider that viewpoint and those facts (regarding the release date) as to why people are getting a little irritated when other products and DLC are mentioned. You really thought that was exceptionally harsh? Perhaps trading in your thin skin for a thick skin would be to your benefit-- although you probably felt me stating THAT was phenomenally harsh... You are right that they are years past their originally proposed dates for the kickstarter. That's because the game they were planning that would have gotten done by that date would have been vastly inferior to the one they are crafting. I really don't think you would want that other game. Criticizing them for going past the original date because they changed the product from basic to superior is....kinda harsh. You are right that they are working on features pre-launch that were originally slated to be done post-launch which means that there will be other features that will take that place. The main thing to focus on is that the game was promised to launch before all stretch goals were complete and that those goals would be added afterward. You are categorically wrong that they shouldn't start gearing up for their next projects. Sorry for such harsh language. Nobody in the industry waits to start the next project until they are done with the first because that would be phenominally and exceptionally.....stupid. Personally, I could care less that people (who can't figure out the plain logic of gearing up to start the next project as the current one winds down) will get upset when they hear a dev say "DLC" or "Other products". They can pound sand and collect jars of salt all day long. Those who think about it for a moment and actually listen to what Joel said will know that their focus is still on finishing this game. Yes, he mentioned "DLC". So what? He wasn't announcing a DLC. He said the tools they will be adding to their editor will help them when they soon start working on DLCs and their next project. You would be 100% correct if he had in fact announced a pre-launch DLC but he didn't and no fair or logical perspective of his actual words could be taken to mean that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaineGB Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 One, I don't have a thin skin. I have a pretty thick skin. I was attempting to explain from a neutral standpoint how the phrasing may come across as harsh. Unfortunately, text is a HORRIBLE medium to convey thoughts and intentions, so I apologise in that regard. However, if you go back and actually read the post, you will note I didn't complain about the DLC and actually acknowledged I figured Joel was talking about post-release maps since he was talking about terrain editors AND I thought it was actually a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Okay I see. You weren't offended yourself. You were just concerned on behalf of anyone else who might be offended by my statement and were advocating for that group. That is very philanthropic of you. I'm glad you weren't offended and I'll handle members of that group on a case by case basis as they come forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Is something planned? Of course. Duh. Since you're going to ask anyway: It will be stuff. With things. Stuff sounds great. I'm looking forward to stuff! But I don't know what things will be like. So I'm going to imagine reasons it would be bad. Ugh, it'll be so bad! Please don't add things. Roland, can you make a poll so that Gazz has to work on stuff instead of things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Stuff sounds great. I'm looking forward to stuff! But I don't know what things will be like. So I'm going to imagine reasons it would be bad. Ugh, it'll be so bad! Please don't add things. Roland, can you make a poll so that Gazz has to work on stuff instead of things? No way. Not if you're free to do it, Master Pollmeister! /bilingually redundant since 1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompyNZ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 <shrug>. Aren’t there unmoddable aspects right now that prevent modders from doing things they’d like to do? My first thought is a new map with several new biomes. I haven’t seen any biome mods... With EAC off there is almost nothing in the game that cant be modded with the tools we currently have. If they made a DLC with all the code done in c++ and hidden away in the executable sure. There is very little in the executable atm that you would want to mod. New maps, that's a simple job. release a paid for DLC of a new map and I can guarantee it will be pirated before most people have even seen it is available. They could add a ton more obfuscation to the dll and make it a nightmare for tools like sdx, but doing that will lose every advanced modder of the game and they will move on to a less restrictive game to work on. That will kill replay value and lose post gold sales imo... kinda defeats the purpose of having paid for dlc... I seriously can't think of anything that would be worthy of forking out cash for as a DLC that couldn't be accessed by modders/hackers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 With EAC off there is almost nothing in the game that cant be modded with the tools we currently have. If they made a DLC with all the code done in c++ and hidden away in the executable sure. There is very little in the executable atm that you would want to mod. New maps, that's a simple job. release a paid for DLC of a new map and I can guarantee it will be pirated before most people have even seen it is available. They could add a ton more obfuscation to the dll and make it a nightmare for tools like sdx, but doing that will lose every advanced modder of the game and they will move on to a less restrictive game to work on. That will kill replay value and lose post gold sales imo... kinda defeats the purpose of having paid for dlc... I seriously can't think of anything that would be worthy of forking out cash for as a DLC that couldn't be accessed by modders/hackers Well then, they probably will come to that same conclusion and not charge for additions and enhancements they bring to the game. Their intention is to bring more of the game into the hands of modders rather than less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadMole Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Future products shouldn't even be considered at this juncture. Basically, they are planning ahead. DLC (after the game is finished) and other projects coming eventually. I'm just concerned they might be making multiple games at the same time eventually, and loosing their focus. You are right that they are years past their originally proposed dates for the kickstarter. That's because the game they were planning that would have gotten done by that date would have been vastly inferior to the one they are crafting. I guess that's what MM meant when saying the game should have been a sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StompyNZ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I guess that's what MM meant when saying the game should have been a sequel. Good old scope creep ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidmo31 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 @Roland I think the greatest fear is what has already happened in other Early Access titles may have burned more than one of us. (Cough ARK) We love the game or most of us would not have sunk 1000s of hours and bought copies for our whole family.... We have 3 generations playing almost every weekend for the past 3 years in this house. But hearing DLC when a game is in alpha is gonna short circuit some brains. DLC means in marketing we want more money and when its said in Alpha it means money is running out. I have had several EA games fail Tug, Beasts of Prey, and Sky Nations just to name a few. I know MM meant well and also meant post release but just the mention of DLC ruffles feathers now days before the game is done. I would welcome hand crafted maps that we pay for or the ability to make our own in steam workshop. But some of us are not so level headed and this response in the current Early Access market should have kinda been expected.... It took me a second view of that video to catch the context or I would have been in here bitching too lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhaineGB Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Basically, they are planning ahead. DLC (after the game is finished) and other projects coming eventually. I'm just concerned they might be making multiple games at the same time eventually, and loosing their focus. The other games is the part I'm concerned about. DLC? No problem at all. Makes total sense post release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadamier Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Hello! Well, if you look around at this subject you'll see a lot of fuss about it... Facebook, the Steam forums and here just to name the 'main ones.' I think Roland is correct in saying that:"You are assuming that dlc means something extra you have to pay for. That isn't what Madmole is talking about." And I think MM is just using the words as words and not in the negative connotation of "DLC's" as everyone assumes it means. Now I'm just guessing but I have a feeling that MM & TFP are wanting to give us the ability to import maps that we make!!! And Modders too! I mean if they made that ability for cloths?!? YIKES! I mean I saw a post about one person asking how to import skins from one game into this game... Interesting, but there maybe legal issues with that... But if that ability was given to the modders then it would lay with the modder! @Roland - If you haven't already - let him know that he shouldn't use that term... At least in the near future. LOL I also think kidmo31 has some great points and as you can see from all 'the talk' every where. Because "we" (9 of us) - "The Badlands Crew" have all got the game and have been playing for just about a year now. In the forums you can see that there are at least a few husband/wife combos too!!! But this should let all of you (Roland, TFP and everyone else) know how much 'we all' love this game! That should be taken as a very big positive! I've talked with only a few people and they all love the idea of being able to download a map from their 'favorite' or 'hometown' and play in it! Being born and raised in Seattle, WA I'd love to romp around there! I am also thinking that many others especially outside of the US would love this feature too! It would make the user feel that the game has come to them! Now talk about immersion! So I am really hoping that what MM was actually talking about giving us all the ability to make maps and bring them into the game. If you look at this video it talks about GAIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Wow. I'm not even BOTHERING to read all of this. One page was enough. I spent 20 bucks on this game. Have almost 4000 hours in it, made a successful mod which to this day brings me MASSIVE amounts of joy and fun with my wife, my friends and with strangers. I have met important and cherished people through this game. I have run multiple servers and continue to do so. I play it every single day. For 20 bucks. If you are going to askme for 20 more to enjoy even MORe content I will give them 40. I dont give one singly flying flip that anyone else feels like DLC is a rip off. In my opinion IM the one who ripped the Pimps off. I have gotten to play 9 different and unique version of this game in 2 plus years. For 20 single bucks. You damn STRAIGHT I will continue to support them. Financially if possible and willingly every single time. This isn't EA (Electronic Arts) or Konami. I feel Pimps have EARNED my extra income for all the hours they have provided ME with. I may not always agree with every decision and I can be vocal and trolly sure. But hot damn if I wont be right there in the thick of it with them in support of ANY future projects they come up with, DLC, sequel or a new game completely. They have EARNED that respect from me. Some of you need to look at the hours you have put in and realize that money is not an endless flowing stream. Sales taper off, people move on. If the DLC is good enough, why NOT throw some extra cash their way just to say THANK YOU for not abandoning this game like so many other EA developers have their own games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedui Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I spent 20 bucks on this game. Have almost 4000 hours in it, made a successful mod which to this day brings me MASSIVE amounts of joy and fun with my wife, my friends and with strangers. I have met important and cherished people through this game. I have run multiple servers and continue to do so. I play it every single day. For 20 bucks. If you are going to askme for 20 more to enjoy even MORe content I will give them 40. Have to say much of this echos my sentiments. And I didn't even pay the 20 bucks as I bought it on sale! For what was paid, and what was delivered, over and over again, I've more than gotten my money's worth, and I'd happily pay it again, and more, to get another more years of continued development of the game. Now with that said, I'm perfectly fine with even paid DLC, as long as it allows me to play the way I want, with people who do not want to pay for the DLC. And that's where it gets quite tricky. It's like some games offer maps for free, but weapons, character progression, vehicles, skills, get put into DLC. But that causes a bit of pay to win view, which isn't entirely easy either as it separates the play experience into groups. But I'm sure that's also a challenge which has a good solution, and I'm sure TFP has it well in hand based on the effort/cost they see the game would need, and the amount of money it brings in to cover that /V - Alpha 17 - Behemoth R.I.P? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombie4hire Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 This game has indeed been a massive value for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 No way. Not if you're free to do it, Master Pollmeister! /bilingually redundant since 1969 So... next poll is Stuff vs. Things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 So... next poll is Stuff vs. Things? no it's "Things vs. Stuff" oooh backwards you always are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 no it's "Things vs. Stuff" oooh backwards you always are That's directionally challenged, you insensitive clod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fragtzack Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Games have started releasing and charging for DLC in Alpha. Releasing DLC in alpha causes more sales , more people playing, better reviews, blah, blah. I mean just look at Ark Survival Evolved. The Ark community loved paying for DLC in alpha. Ark is clearly a top 10 in steam right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Personally I bought the Ark DLC because the game as a whole was worth it to me. The balance on Scorched Earth was atrocious at release so I only took a brief look but mods ended up using all that content for their own nefarious purposes and it was all good. Also, 7DTD modders are spoiled. They don't have to wait for a dev kit update before they can use whatever new patch/content is there. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotitdone Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Wow. I'm not even BOTHERING to read all of this. One page was enough. I spent 20 bucks on this game. Have almost 4000 hours in it, made a successful mod which to this day brings me MASSIVE amounts of joy and fun with my wife, my friends and with strangers. I have met important and cherished people through this game. I have run multiple servers and continue to do so. I play it every single day. For 20 bucks. If you are going to askme for 20 more to enjoy even MORe content I will give them 40. I dont give one singly flying flip that anyone else feels like DLC is a rip off. In my opinion IM the one who ripped the Pimps off. I have gotten to play 9 different and unique version of this game in 2 plus years. For 20 single bucks. You damn STRAIGHT I will continue to support them. Financially if possible and willingly every single time. This isn't EA (Electronic Arts) or Konami. I feel Pimps have EARNED my extra income for all the hours they have provided ME with. I may not always agree with every decision and I can be vocal and trolly sure. But hot damn if I wont be right there in the thick of it with them in support of ANY future projects they come up with, DLC, sequel or a new game completely. They have EARNED that respect from me. Some of you need to look at the hours you have put in and realize that money is not an endless flowing stream. Sales taper off, people move on. If the DLC is good enough, why NOT throw some extra cash their way just to say THANK YOU for not abandoning this game like so many other EA developers have their own games. Well said. While I do agree that the industry (EA) has gotten way out of hand with the DLC business plan, this game is no where near that. I can see all sorts of different maps and buildings that could be added to the game for years to come. To do it right takes time, time takes money. I would gladly pay for the entertainment I would get from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Not really. You've used a lot of 'insider' information or information that are hidden somewhere in the depths of the forums to interpret MM statement. Many of the players don't have the required background knowledge to understand the quote. That's why the statement is unclear to them and needs a translation. Actually, you have to spend several years here in the forum to get what he could have meant. lol I have ZERO insider knowledge and I took it almost exactly the way Roland described it. So insider knowledge must not be required to interpret it that way. A basic knowledge of how development works maybe helped but it did not require "insider" knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Meh, I'm okay with a little money grabbing, as long as the content is worth it. I don't even look at it as money grabbing. I view it as staying in business to make even more content I might enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 This came across as exceptionally harsh and you should consider re-wording it. However, in light of this particular sentence, let me give you some free education. TFP is an indie studio working on one product right now. As per the dates given in their kickstarter, they are currently several YEARS behind schedule for both beta and final releases. They are implimenting things that were in the stretch goals as "post release" features. As such, they should absolutely be focusing only on the one game. Future products shouldn't even be considered at this juncture. This is why people are getting annoyed, and probably also why they got annoyed over the prospect of DLC (for the record, I figured Joel was talking about new maps in regards to DLC, and I thought that was a fantastic idea). You may want to consider that viewpoint and those facts (regarding the release date) as to why people are getting a little irritated when other products and DLC are mentioned. And yet another "expert" with no actual idea how software development works. Thanks for your input routing it to the proper mailbox for later consideration. > /dev/null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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