Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[The Gronk]

Bandit: "Give me all your stuff or I ...BRAINS!... kill you"

 

That bug is quite likely to happen during the initial changeover, bandit shoots you and then runs across to bite your face off using the standard animation of a zombie scoring a kill :-)

 

Fair point though, should a bandit be able to steal your backpack if they kill you?

[dhlmaster]

Fair point though, should a bandit be able to steal your backpack if they kill you?

 

I think they should at least take the most valuable item from what you drop, or maybe all of your money. They wouldn't be very good bandits if they killed you without robbing your corpse!

[Bubo]

(forum intermission)

 

[unholyjoe]

(forum intermission)

 

 

stomp that damn noisy cricket!

[Roland]

That bug is quite likely to happen during the initial changeover, bandit shoots you and then runs across to bite your face off using the standard animation of a zombie scoring a kill :-)

 

Fair point though, should a bandit be able to steal your backpack if they kill you?

 

Well if they're called a "bandit" isn't that why they killed you? We usually call people who kill others for no reason other than to kill something else.

[Scyris]

From this point of the game onwards , I am really only hoping for a few things to get fixed/added/upgraded and the rest is just gravy...

 

1. Water...and boats...possibly...fishing!

2. Better zombie AI without being super smart destroyers of the human race , aka zombies from Return of the Living Dead...sounds like we are getting that now from fataal

3. as someone else just mentioned...that annoying seam between dirt and construction...while a minor issue , has always just bothered me!

4. Joshua Trees! yes , I bring it up again and will continue to do so lol!

 

I am pretty easy...the other new features , vehicles , guns , balancing etc. are all going to be nice , but those three things are what will make it so much better for me...

 

Your not alone on number 3, that drives me nuts as well, but there is nothing we can do about it right now, so I... try.. poorly... to ignore it.

[The Gronk]

Well if they're called a "bandit" isn't that why they killed you? We usually call people who kill others for no reason other than to kill something else.

 

Balancing then becomes an issue. If players have opted to leave everything in their backpack upon death some are going to be pretty annoyed that this option has been bypassed by the AI. It makes the game harder in a way that players who want an easier game cannot control.

[Scyris]

how about vertical/overall sounds?

in A16.4 i cannot decide whenever the zombie is on my floor or above by 2

there will be a fix for that?

 

I'd rather them not make any sounds until they actually see you. Other than maybe the sounds of them punching whatever block they are trying to smash to get a look at what attracted them.

 

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That, plus after every freaking video of a specific subject, all unrelevant stuff in the vid gets overanalysed and ♥♥♥♥ on. Stating things are in progress or unbalanced gets gracefully ignored by default. If i was staff i wouldnt put a vid out anymore also.

 

Cheers

 

Yeaaaah in a way I can't blame them. The one with shooting of zombies was especally bad as no balance was done, and no gun had headshot or the stunned damage bonus working/turned on yet. That reminds me, is blunt force trauma going to actually do anything to zombies in a17? in a16 you hear the sound but it doesn't seem to hurt them at all.

[Roland]

Balancing then becomes an issue. If players have opted to leave everything in their backpack upon death some are going to be pretty annoyed that this option has been bypassed by the AI. It makes the game harder in a way that players who want an easier game cannot control.

 

Its just like now when people select "never run" and that is bypassed by the ferals if your gamestage gets high enough or the football players if you go to that POI. I'm sure eventually there will be more specificity in the options and probably an option to enable or disable bandits for those who want a zombie only experience anyway.

 

My opinion is that bandits should steal if they kill you-- or even better-- not kill you if you bribe them with your best loot or agree to do a job for them. People who never want to lose anything or suffer any permanent loss from being killed in the game can disable bandits or avoid places that bandits frequent if they are too annoyed by it. That will be their control for an easier game

[Scyris]

Its just like now when people select "never run" and that is bypassed by the ferals if your gamestage gets high enough or the football players if you go to that POI. I'm sure eventually there will be more specificity in the options and probably an option to enable or disable bandits for those who want a zombie only experience anyway.

 

My opinion is that bandits should steal if they kill you-- or even better-- not kill you if you bribe them with your best loot or agree to do a job for them. People who never want to lose anything or suffer any permanent loss from being killed in the game can disable bandits or avoid places that bandits frequent if they are too annoyed by it. That will be their control for an easier game

 

Not gonna lie I find all zombies being able to run at night very silly, I don't mind ferals as they are bascally mutations you could say, but all of them being able to run is kinda silly. Mind you I won't shut it off because if I do, it'll make night no diffrent than day for me. In the mod I am playing darkness falls, zombie run wouldn't effect much no matter its setting, at night, nothing but ferals spawn.

[The Gronk]

Its just like now when people select "never run" and that is bypassed by the ferals if your gamestage gets high enough or the football players if you go to that POI. I'm sure eventually there will be more specificity in the options and probably an option to enable or disable bandits for those who want a zombie only experience anyway.

 

My opinion is that bandits should steal if they kill you-- or even better-- not kill you if you bribe them with your best loot or agree to do a job for them. People who never want to lose anything or suffer any permanent loss from being killed in the game can disable bandits or avoid places that bandits frequent if they are too annoyed by it. That will be their control for an easier game

 

Bribery would be a great mechanic but it opens up a whole host of problems.

 

What happens if you have nothing? Do the bandits let you go on your way without incident? That could be exploited by quickly making a chest and dumping your stuff into it when you see an encounter up ahead.

 

What happens if a horde attacks before you reply? Do the bandits ignore you to attack the common threat? Is everyone forced to stay still while talking which can lead to the horde killing the bandits half-way through the conversation? If people can move during conversations what's to stop you running away before replying... okay that last one is more of a feature than a bug if they take your fleeing the scene to be a denial. :-)

[Roland]

Bribery would be a great mechanic but it opens up a whole host of problems.

 

What happens if you have nothing? Do the bandits let you go on your way without incident?

 

"Nothing of use to us? Okay, then, we've got a job for you to do. If it's not completed by the end of the week we'll be coming for you..."

 

 

That could be exploited by quickly making a chest and dumping your stuff into it when you see an encounter up ahead.

 

I don't consider taking precautions like that an exploit if you are able to notice an encounter ahead of time and aren't taken by surprise. Seems like the very definition and use of the term "stash".

 

What happens if a horde attacks before you reply? Do the bandits ignore you to attack the common threat? Is everyone forced to stay still while talking which can lead to the horde killing the bandits half-way through the conversation? If people can move during conversations what's to stop you running away before replying... okay that last one is more of a feature than a bug if they take your fleeing the scene to be a denial. :-)

 

I think there are solutions to these scenarios. I don't think you can move freely when you are talking to a trader and it would be the same thing I imagine with a bandit.

[TSBX]

With Prime working hard on quests, is something like a job board going to be possible? Hopefully dynamic quests based on RWG will be possible down the road.

[The Gronk]

"Nothing of use to us? Okay, then, we've got a job for you to do. If it's not completed by the end of the week we'll be coming for you..."

 

I don't consider taking precautions like that an exploit if you are able to notice an encounter ahead of time and aren't taken by surprise. Seems like the very definition and use of the term "stash".

 

I think there are solutions to these scenarios. I don't think you can move freely when you are talking to a trader and it would be the same thing I imagine with a bandit.

 

Fair point on the forced quest although you should always have the option to refuse and try to run.

 

Fair point on stashes being more of a feature than a bug.

 

I'm not really liking the forced stillness while talking to NPC's though. It works okay for traders as they've got a reasonably safe base although I'm sure more than a few people have been jumped by a zombie while attempting to trade. It's going to really annoy the pvp crowd, camp out near a quest giver and wait for someone to show up, you then get plenty of time to line up a headshot or sneak up behind them while they're incapable of looking around for danger.

 

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With Prime working hard on quests, is something like a job board going to be possible? Hopefully dynamic quests based on RWG will be possible down the road.

 

I'm pretty sure it'll not only be possible but already implemented, just replace the words "job board" with "trader quests".

 

+Quests and quest POIs will work in Random worlds as well as Navezgane 4/19/2018

 

If I remember correctly trader quests were mentioned in one of the videos.

 

Yep, my mind hasn't completely dissolved yet, the trader has a dialogue option to request jobs...

 

[meganoth]

I'm not really liking the forced stillness while talking to NPC's though. It works okay for traders as they've got a reasonably safe base although I'm sure more than a few people have been jumped by a zombie while attempting to trade. It's going to really annoy the pvp crowd, camp out near a quest giver and wait for someone to show up, you then get plenty of time to line up a headshot or sneak up behind them while they're incapable of looking around for danger.

 

What's the difference to accessing the inventar?

 

PVP crowd will surround quest givers with blocks. Or tunnel to the quest giver. Or don't do quests at all, quests are PvE.

[Gamida]

Bribery would be a great mechanic but it opens up a whole host of problems.

 

What happens if you have nothing? Do the bandits let you go on your way without incident? That could be exploited by quickly making a chest and dumping your stuff into it when you see an encounter up ahead.

 

If you have nothing they want on you they inject you with a modified strain of the zombie virus of which they have the only antidote and they give you a quest that you have to finish in x time

[TSBX]

Ok cool. Now all we need is for the game to recognize town names and we can have locational quests!

[The Gronk]

What's the difference to accessing the inventar?

 

PVP crowd will surround quest givers with blocks. Or tunnel to the quest giver. Or don't do quests at all, quests are PvE.

 

Accessing the inventory is also risky but it can be done at any time which limits the danger to a certain degree. If players are forced to stay still and you know how long it takes to go through that quest givers dialogue that suddenly bestows a huge advantage to the ambushing player, giving the players a chance to look around during dialogue limits this to a certain extent. Hell, I look around me while having conversations IRL, staring at someone during the entire conversation can be off-putting and quite frankly creepy.

 

One thing I learned from many years as an old pen-and-paper GM is that no matter what you think the players will do they will sometimes do the complete opposite, often disregarding logic and reason in the process. If the prize is good enough, or if the players are stupid enough, they'll quite happily stroll into a dragons den armed with nothing more than hope and be surprised when they get killed.

 

[Survager]

Will the zombies at least slightly turn their heads towards the player when they are above or below the zombie? Now zombies look only in front of themselves and do not turn their heads at all (((

 

Will the zombie have an animation of the face (movement of the jaws and eyes)?

 

All this can add fear to the game, is not it. Now zombies are just dolls that are not like people and therefore do not inspire fear to players (

[dhlmaster]

Accessing the inventory is also risky but it can be done at any time which limits the danger to a certain degree. If players are forced to stay still and you know how long it takes to go through that quest givers dialogue that suddenly bestows a huge advantage to the ambushing player, giving the players a chance to look around during dialogue limits this to a certain extent. Hell, I look around me while having conversations IRL, staring at someone during the entire conversation can be off-putting and quite frankly creepy.

 

One thing I learned from many years as an old pen-and-paper GM is that no matter what you think the players will do they will sometimes do the complete opposite, often disregarding logic and reason in the process. If the prize is good enough, or if the players are stupid enough, they'll quite happily stroll into a dragons den armed with nothing more than hope and be surprised when they get killed.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24513[/ATTACH]

 

Donkey?

[Aldranon]

I hope the bandits steal my car! I'll wait until I'm a maxed out, steal shredding, killing machine, with a reputation that is like this...

 

https://youtu.be/CZBRrYEGET8?t=352

[Survager]

"Nothing of use to us? Okay, then, we've got a job for you to do. If it's not completed by the end of the week we'll be coming for you..."

 

I don't consider taking precautions like that an exploit if you are able to notice an encounter ahead of time and aren't taken by surprise. Seems like the very definition and use of the term "stash".

 

I think there are solutions to these scenarios. I don't think you can move freely when you are talking to a trader and it would be the same thing I imagine with a bandit.

 

And can you later find a bandit who took your things, killed him and took his things back? Maybe not all things, but only those that the bandit did not have time to sell) That would be fair.

 

Of course the bandit would not sell good weapons or valuable armor, because these items could be returned. But if there are resources like stones or coal, then we can not return them, since the bandit will most likely immediately sell them.

 

You can also set a timer during which you can return 100% of things.

 

You can also mark the point of death so that the player can return to this place and try to find a robber for revenge. When this time passes you will need to look for a band of bandits and look for an offender in this camp. But after the time has elapsed, the bandit can only have the most valuable things, but not everything is 100%.

[FairEmelye]

Based on the videos I've seen I'm not surprised this update is taking so long. The improvements they;re making are quite ambitious, if ya ask me.

 

I keep myself from becoming overcome by anticipation and resentment by reminding myself, while this may be the best game out there (imo), it isn't the *only* game out there. I play the others to distract me from my ow impatience.

 

That said, the complaints I see are just indicators of how much some people love 7DTD. If I were a dev, I'd worry if nobody complained at all.

[The Gronk]

Will the zombies at least slightly turn their heads towards the player when they are above or below the zombie? Now zombies look only in front of themselves and do not turn their heads at all (((

 

Will the zombie have an animation of the face (movement of the jaws and eyes)?

 

All this can add fear to the game, is not it. Now zombies are just dolls that are not like people and therefore do not inspire fear to players (

 

I'm surprised they don't look at the player already, there's a drag-and-drop script which does that. I doubt they'll move their eyes and mouths though, that would require extra rigging and possibly some mesh editing.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And can you later find a bandit who took your things, killed him and took his things back? Maybe not all things, but only those that the bandit did not have time to sell) That would be fair.

 

Of course the bandit would not sell good weapons or valuable armor, because these items could be returned. But if there are resources like stones or coal, then we can not return them, since the bandit will most likely immediately sell them.

 

You can also set a timer during which you can return 100% of things.

 

You can also mark the point of death so that the player can return to this place and try to find a robber for revenge. When this time passes you will need to look for a band of bandits and look for an offender in this camp. But after the time has elapsed, the bandit can only have the most valuable things, but not everything is 100%.

 

I'm curious if the idea of having zombies, and by extension bandits, tracked in the metadata so that their position is always calculated is still going to be a thing. It's a great idea to add consistency but the time/effort/frame-rate balance may have precluded it.

[KingSlayerGM]

What if, after a bandit killed you and took your things, you could find some of them for sale in a trading post? Like the bandit sold the stolen things for profit to the trader.. this would be so cool