Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Tin]

It is not really the AI, but the pathing system, which scans the world and makes a layered grid around each player. All animals and zombies use that grid, but the grid does not know about them.

 

The path finding calculates the cost of every reachable grid node (block) as it works its way to the destination. Cheapest total cost wins. It will break through 40 blocks of concrete if that is the cheapest way to you.

 

It is the standard A* concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*

 

Will the zeds recalculate a new path if you have too many other zeds already occupying the initial path?

Example:

You have 6 zeds.

They all path to the door since it has the lowest value.

3 zeds get to the door first.

Will the remaining 3 zeds recalculate a new path? say a block off to the right or left of the door?

To help spread them out.

[faatal]

How often is the path updated?

 

Somewhat random, but usually every 1-10 seconds.

[faatal]

Will the zeds recalculate a new path if you have too many other zeds already occupying the initial path?

 

Not yet. Advanced features won't happen until basic stuff is done.

[faatal]

Does the pathing evaluation does not stop at the visual layer then?

 

Right, it does not stop at a wall. A wall (any solid block you can reach) is a path node, it just costs more.

[Tin]

Not yet. Advanced features won't happen until basic stuff is done.

 

Cool Coll ty

[Roland]

Right, it does not stop at a wall. A wall (any solid block you can reach) is a path node, it just costs more.

 

This means you could pretty easily set up a kill corridor of sorts and be pretty confident they would follow it consistently. In early alphas when the zeds always GPS'ed to the player I would make a gradually higher wall that spiraled around to a door on the second level of my base and I would stand on a ledge above that door. The zombies would run that one block path and stand in single file at the top of that wall and I would kill them one at a time.

[Wolf959]

This means you could pretty easily set up a kill corridor of sorts and be pretty confident they would follow it consistently. In early alphas when the zeds always GPS'ed to the player I would make a gradually higher wall that spiraled around to a door on the second level of my base and I would stand on a ledge above that door. The zombies would run that one block path and stand in single file at the top of that wall and I would kill them one at a time.

I don't know if your implying that would be a bad thing, but i feel it wouldn't be terrible. I guess it might take away from the difficulty of the game, but it feels more realistic to me... coming from someone who is a big fan of the walking dead. zombies are stupid and they don't see a trap coming, but stupid zombies lead to redundant game play. Hard to say what to do. I guess that's why you have different types of zombies eg. spider. because that way one tactic doesn't work for all.

[Drithyl]

If faatal eventually implements Tin's earlier suggestion that wouldn't be an issue, since after filling the corridor they'd start destroying all the walls instead of standing in a line waiting one by one to get their turn at the player, I'd guess.

[Scyris]

wow that joke just gave me a great idea. make traders give quests that require players to power an object poi and repair it while protecting it from zombies.

the context would be they need the poi's to maintain communications, maintain trade lines or protected areas for trade caravans to meet up.

 

I'd love the idea of player spawned tower defense quests, with a good reward if you manage to keep it and yourself alive. Make it so once you trigger it only then you can build and you have like 10 real life mins to do whatever u can before they start coming.

[dhlmaster]

Streaming games are often mistaken for real gameplay. Crafting and building might be fun to play, but hardly fun to watch, so you I think gameplay seen on youtube doesn't necessarily equate to average gameplay. That said, yes, I am all for giving weapons some live as well, I just don't think it should be the number one priority in this game.

 

Can confirm this as an amateur YouTuber. I play much differently when I'm recording than when I'm playing on my own time. There's an ever-present need to make it more interesting for someone to watch. I go out and take more risks (and die more often for the effort), and never spend a whole day crafting in my base when I'm recording. When I do need to do a lot of crafting, I edit it down significantly. On the other hand, when I play for fun I spend a lot more time upgrading my base, crafting, mining, etc.

[Scyris]

I got a question/idea why not put in game modes? for example, Hmm I don't know what to call it, but a mode where zombies can no longer run, however they now hit for double damage, meaning while they don't run, if they DO catch you... Well.. Ouch. With ferals getting a 2.5x damage bonus insted since they can run at anytime by default. Bascally stuff like that, fun little mutators.

 

People would be very bored watching me stream 7dtd, I am very cautious and careful about what I do. Mind you when I play SP I often use cheat engine for its speed hack function, make the game run 10% faster, 50% or double speed to speed up times when I am just sitting there crafting with nothing better to do. Course this will not work in a MP game, also think you need to run the game without eac enabled too for that matter to use it.

[iAmOutOfIdeas]

Has any dev talked about making custom inventory size? With how popular the backpack mod is, im sure this would be appreciated. Editing xml and losing half your stuff can be annoying, or having to download third parity dll's (or even hoping one exist for the current version).

[Scyris]

Has any dev talked about making custom inventory size? With how popular the backpack mod is, im sure this would be appreciated. Editing xml and losing half your stuff can be annoying, or having to download third parity dll's (or even hoping one exist for the current version).

 

Well the inventory mod is 1 part, one part is editing the windows.xml but the main problem is in the games main .dll its only set to save 32 slots. What they could do is keep inv as it is, but have the .dll preset to allow up to a 80 slot char/vechicle inventory. I mean if I didn't need to edit the .dll I could up my inv size in 30 seconds in the xml.

 

With this they should make an option for backpack size, as 32 slots is no where near enough even in alpha 10 when I started, and there has been more clutter items added since. in A17 we got weapon mods that are going to be cluttertastic with how many there can be.

[beerfly]

Why when I read that someone wants more slots in the backpack or in the bike, or with the new vehicles, they expect the game should get easier ? The point is, yea, it could be made easier, but should it ? I think no. The harder the better. \w/

[Zadwanaa]

Has any dev talked about making custom inventory size? With how popular the backpack mod is, im sure this would be appreciated. Editing xml and losing half your stuff can be annoying, or having to download third parity dll's (or even hoping one exist for the current version).

 

Would love gear mods. Something that'll increase bag size, but maybe as a trade off, eats more stamina.. Less bag space, run faster. Braces to mitigate falling damage / spraining / breaking your leg(s).. but slows you down. that kind of deal.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Why when I read that someone wants more slots in the backpack or in the bike, or with the new vehicles, they expect the game should get easier ? The point is, yea, it could be made easier, but should it ? I think no. The harder the better. \w/

 

that mentality is so horribly flawed. You can make the game stupidly hard by putting either A. restrictions on yourself B. having max zombies on horde nights, always run on and reducing the amount of resources you get.

[beerfly]

 

that mentality is so horribly flawed. You can make the game stupidly hard by putting either A. restrictions on yourself B. having max zombies on horde nights, always run on and reducing the amount of resources you get.

 

It is called ballance. Not wierd mentality, there is an endgame scenario going around.

[Zadwanaa]

It is called ballance. Not wierd mentality, there is an endgame scenario going around.

 

You'd rather force everyone to play a way that you prefer, that's the flaw. The end game scenario is whatever TFP or various modder (if you're using a mod) has put in.

 

There are options to make the game harder for yourself / your group of friends / your server, but why force everyone?

[KingSlayerGM]

You thinking drawbridge? I'm thinking drawbridge. I'm thinking two drawbridges at opposite ends of my fortress... Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

 

If they give us electrified drawbridges, you can have motion sensors to alternatively open one or the other

[Cazmyr]

I would agree that bigger bag does not equal easier. Especially in the mods that add tons of items.

 

If A17 item count is growing larger (and I think it is) then an increased bag would be nice. It does not have to be 80 slots or anything, but adding another 2 rows would help a lot.

 

I agree that inventory management is part of the game and a part of the struggle, but there is a line where it is just impractically small. We are not at that line yet, but A17 may get us right up to it or past it.

[Roland]

I got a question/idea why not put in game modes? for example, Hmm I don't know what to call it, but a mode where zombies can no longer run, however they now hit for double damage, meaning while they don't run, if they DO catch you... Well.. Ouch. With ferals getting a 2.5x damage bonus insted since they can run at anytime by default. Bascally stuff like that, fun little mutators.

 

Simply remove the "e" from "mode" and you'll see we already have a ton of those types of fun little mutators of the game.

[Roland]

I would agree that bigger bag does not equal easier. Especially in the mods that add tons of items.

 

If A17 item count is growing larger (and I think it is) then an increased bag would be nice. It does not have to be 80 slots or anything, but adding another 2 rows would help a lot.

 

I agree that inventory management is part of the game and a part of the struggle, but there is a line where it is just impractically small. We are not at that line yet, but A17 may get us right up to it or past it.

 

Sorry, but no need for making a choice is always easier than having to make a choice. Survival games should always be forcing this OR that and only allowing this AND that after some tech advance or progression arc has made it possible.

 

I'm not against bigger mobile inventory eventually but it should be via vehicle cargo space (tech advance) or as a result of getting a perk based off of strength (progression arc) and if so then we should start with even smaller inventories than we do now so that there can be a satisfying progression.

 

In my opinion, TFP should not just add two rows to the backpack and call it a day.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

Ok, now that I've got my answers for the day.

 

I want the good old Sharpened Stick back. Durability off the charts (used to be my favorite weapon with no durability). Morgan Jones, TWD, FTWD style butt kicking.

[Cazmyr]

Sorry, but no need for making a choice is always easier than having to make a choice. Survival games should always be forcing this OR that and only allowing this AND that after some tech advance or progression arc has made it possible.

 

I'm not against bigger mobile inventory eventually but it should be via vehicle cargo space (tech advance) or as a result of getting a perk based off of strength (progression arc) and if so then we should start with even smaller inventories than we do now so that there can be a satisfying progression.

 

In my opinion, TFP should not just add two rows to the backpack and call it a day.

 

I think the progression idea is a great one!

 

I can think of some You Tubers that would have a very very hard time with that in the beginning and race that skill line to make it as big as possible lol.

 

And that is cool. The bag is fine the way it is. It is fun to throw ideas into the ring though and I appreciate the response.

[nightscout]

Or... Deliberately make a long corridor with just barbed wire and have about 4+ shotgun turrets aiming down...

 

 

 

Oh I like how you think! BEFORE the planes will start dropping supplies, you need to keep the signal tower safe and undamaged until day 14 (much longer for harder difficulties)

 

I could actually really see this in a server online, the towers could go by chunks(I believe thats the right word from what I know of the heat maps), as players group up and become established they could go to the towers and activate them for x amount of time to allow supply drops in the future

[Blighte]

Yep.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks, Prisma!