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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I would too, I did find some of the craft recipies in undead legacy to be complicated for no reason at all other than to be more annoying, eg: twigs/resin/rope/bowstring etc. To me all of those items felt pointless and redundant. Only recipie with resin to me that made much sense was the glue. Its kinda like how I edit the xmls and make animals drop leather directly when skinned, I also edit any recipie to use leather insted of animalhide if there is any.

 

That is cool and I agree there should be a reason for a change not just a change for changes sake. When you mentioned the animal hide the first thing that came to mind was 'What about paintbrushes?' and then you went on to answer that in your next sentence :)

 

One thing I would love to see is the inclusion of coal to make steel.

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Ever played any other shooter game with guns? If not, try one and you will see what I'm talking about..

 

This is not a shooter and I sure hope it never will be one. Go try DayZ, this game is heavily focused on gun recoil, gun jamming, weapon sway, reload animations and whatnot. Take a good game as 7D2D for what it is and don't turn every unique game into the average off the shelf shooter. 7D2D should and does focus on different content.

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Wouldn't this mess with the general upgrade path? A player is made to believe that upgrading from metal to concrete is beneficial but according to your proposal, the lines are blurred and it just depends on the kind of zombies you get.

 

Basically, certain types of zombies become "specials" depending on what material your base is built of. Once you upgrade, others become "spacials" against you.

Yup, exactly what I was thinking of. Then depending on your base design you would have to prioritize different targets.

 

 

The grid holds penalties for each node. There is no type in the penalty to know what it is to compare with anything from the pathing zombie and if there was, it would slow it down somewhat.

From reading this let me see if I understand correctly.

 

The AI will evaluate the path based on the blocks, number of blocks, and number of upgrades/downgrades that must occur but does not account for the material bonuses (example DamageBonus.stone" value="10") because it doesn't know about the material components just block HP and upgrade/downgrade. Does that sound as if I understand correctly?

 

Next Questions:

Does the path to player calculations include being able to tell a double thick wall versus a single thick doorway?

Example: My wall is 2 blocks thick (4 blocks total to reach hall/path/room) with a single door. The blocks themselves when compared 2 wood versus the upgraded door would make the wall the easier choose if the wall was only 1 block thick.)

Do the zombies gain knowledge that the wall is actually 2 blocks thick and the door is the better path?

One more: if they can evaluate multiple layers of walls/doors, at what distance are they no longer able to evaluate for a path beyond solid objects?

Edited by Red Eagle LXIX (see edit history)

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This is not a shooter and I sure hope it never will be one. Go try DayZ, this game is heavily focused on gun recoil, gun jamming, weapon sway, reload animations and whatnot. Take a good game as 7D2D for what it is and don't turn every unique game into the average off the shelf shooter. 7D2D should and does focus on different content.

 

A survival game that wants to be taken seriously should make more effort than not to get these things more or less right. Shooting is a large part of this game, at least how I've seen it played over the years. I get what you're saying, don't misunderstand me, but I also think the weapon system, in particular the firearms, could benefit from tweaking.

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If only tfp would implement a system where recoil could get less and less depending on gun mods and a robust buff system...

 

...oh wait. A17 peeps. Back to our regularly scheduled window creeping...

 

Episode 246, "Rolands morning bathroom routine."

 

It only gets worse when you and Roland make breakfast :-)

 

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I just don't believe that the funpimps software people are not at least as good as the Empyrion team. You can do it! We have faith in you all.

 

It is just a matter of time. It will get fixed, but I have many higher priorities at the moment.

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Yup, exactly what I was thinking of. Then depending on your base design you would have to prioritize different targets.

 

But what's the point of "upgrading" when it just switches your targeting priorities? Concrete would not be better, it would just make you worry about other kind of zombies...

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The AI will evaluate the path based on the blocks, number of blocks, and number of upgrades/downgrades that must occur but does not account for the material bonuses (example DamageBonus.stone" value="10") because it doesn't know about the material components just block HP and upgrade/downgrade. Does that sound as if I understand correctly?

 

It is not really the AI, but the pathing system, which scans the world and makes a layered grid around each player. All animals and zombies use that grid, but the grid does not know about them.

 

Does the path to player calculations include being able to tell a double thick wall versus a single thick doorway?

Example: My wall is 2 blocks thick (4 blocks total to reach hall/path/room) with a single door. The blocks themselves when compared 2 wood versus the upgraded door would make the wall the easier choose if the wall was only 1 block thick.)

Do the zombies gain knowledge that the wall is actually 2 blocks thick and the door is the better path?

One more: if they can evaluate multiple layers of walls/doors, at what distance are they no longer able to evaluate for a path beyond solid objects?

 

The path finding calculates the cost of every reachable grid node (block) as it works its way to the destination. Cheapest total cost wins. It will break through 40 blocks of concrete if that is the cheapest way to you.

 

It is the standard A* concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*

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A survival game that wants to be taken seriously should make more effort than not to get these things more or less right. Shooting is a large part of this game, at least how I've seen it played over the years. I get what you're saying, don't misunderstand me, but I also think the weapon system, in particular the firearms, could benefit from tweaking.

 

Streaming games are often mistaken for real gameplay. Crafting and building might be fun to play, but hardly fun to watch, so you I think gameplay seen on youtube doesn't necessarily equate to average gameplay. That said, yes, I am all for giving weapons some live as well, I just don't think it should be the number one priority in this game.

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speaking of AI...

 

a common way to deal with zombies is to build an underground base with a flat at ground level hatch and build like an L shape. so down 20 blocks or so and tunnel out at a right angle 20-50 blocks and build your forge room there. you can easily survive all scenarios related to horde night and screamers. they will spend all the time over your forge room and never get more than 1 block down.

 

I recall back in A14.x the zombies would actually dig.

 

so can we address the AI or have diggers that show up or something?

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It is not really the AI, but the pathing system, which scans the world and makes a layered grid around each player. All animals and zombies use that grid, but the grid does not know about them.

 

 

 

The path finding calculates the cost of every reachable grid node (block) as it works its way to the destination. Cheapest total cost wins. It will break through 40 blocks of concrete if that is the cheapest way to you.

 

It is the standard A* concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*

Does the pathing evaluation does not stop at the visual layer then? That was the real question. I think the answer is no, pathing continue beyond the visible layer. If I understand correctly a zombie can tell the difference as to which side would be best to attack if one had the following where C is concrete, W is wood, and P = player (more specifically even being able to tell the NE side in this example):

CCCCCCCCC
CCCCCWCCC
CCCWWWCCC
CCC   CCC
CCC P CCC
CCC   CCC
CCCCCCCCC
CCCCCCCCC

Is that correct?

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It will break through 40 blocks of concrete if that is the cheapest way to you.

 

And that's why my concrete walls will be 41 blocks thick!!

 

...Picture of me winning in A17 forthwith.

...While drinking a cold beer.

...And singing "Nobody does it better".

...While in my hot tub.

...Heated by my fiery will for victory!

...In A17.

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if i had wall made out of 40 players will they go for the players with the lowest fortitude to get to the concrete blocks? XD

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It is not really the AI, but the pathing system, which scans the world and makes a layered grid around each player. All animals and zombies use that grid, but the grid does not know about them.

 

 

 

The path finding calculates the cost of every reachable grid node (block) as it works its way to the destination. Cheapest total cost wins. It will break through 40 blocks of concrete if that is the cheapest way to you.

 

It is the standard A* concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*

 

How often is the path updated?

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if i had wall made out of 40 players will they go for the players with the lowest fortitude to get to the concrete blocks? XD

 

No, it’ll go through the player with the least health :D

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wow that joke just gave me a great idea. make traders give quests that require players to power an object poi and repair it while protecting it from zombies.

the context would be they need the poi's to maintain communications, maintain trade lines or protected areas for trade caravans to meet up.

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Or... Deliberately make a long corridor with just barbed wire and have about 4+ shotgun turrets aiming down...

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

wow that joke just gave me a great idea. make traders give quests that require players to power an object poi and repair it while protecting it from zombies.

the context would be they need the poi's to maintain communications, maintain trade lines or protected areas for trade caravans to meet up.

 

Oh I like how you think! BEFORE the planes will start dropping supplies, you need to keep the signal tower safe and undamaged until day 14 (much longer for harder difficulties)

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How often is the path updated?

 

I believe a few pages ago they said it updates every time a block changes.

 

*Goes and looks for the post*

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I always thought we should have to build a bell tower and find a little guy in a white suit to announce "De Plane! De Plane!"

in order to get supply drops...

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How often is the path updated?

 

You thinking drawbridge? I'm thinking drawbridge. I'm thinking two drawbridges at opposite ends of my fortress... Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

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I always thought we should have to build a bell tower and find a little guy in a white suit to announce "De Plane! De Plane!"

in order to get supply drops...

 

wow.....you're old.....;)

Edited by Cazmyr (see edit history)

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wow.....your old.....;)

 

his old what....? ;)

 

Saw what you did there. Your bad. I wish I had you're nerve.

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his old what....? ;)

 

LOL nice.

 

Ill just let everyone fill in the blank for themselves and what you fill it in with will say a lot about you. :)

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While waiting for A17 to drop i have been watching Neebs Gaming playing 7DTD (there play list of them playing it that is) and just came across a pretty cool 7 DTD song in the middle of the play list.

Now i know most of you may have already seen this but i think it's way cool. ;)

 

 

AND there play list is pretty funny as well.

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