ZombieHorde Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 True regarding the Unity port. In regards to zombie intelligence, I suppose there are a few things that need to happen, depending on the zombie lore. If zombies are completely braindead and just animated flesh with one desire = eat human flesh, then at the very least, the need to be able to pile up (swam each other) to get you if you are on a ledge directly above them or dig in droves to your underground base. However, if we consider them somewhat like animals with a basic instinct and a slight version of a brain (at least a brain-step), then even the dumbest animals can find alternative routes around obstacles or change their body shape (bend or crawl) to get under or over a block. With a human just infected, maybe he/she still has some engineering smarts about him/her and can get the general sensible use of basic tools (club) or that if I fell this tree, that perch will fall. But it's not just about zombie lore, but mainly about the entertainment of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieHorde Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 speaking of zombies being dumb.... i seen a few zombie games on steam where they actually boasted having dumb zombies that merely wonder around randomly unless they see hear or smell lunch. i mean really ... think about it... see a zombie, throw a rock to him and he/she will circle it forever until you kill it or get away. seems ok to me. and you all thought it was a bug. <rolls eyes around in innocence> Lol. Hmmm...yep, you sold me. Where's the game? It's now going to become my favourite game. And TFP's think they're smart for increasing AI on z'd. Pfttttth! What do they know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Oh WoW, Guys really really nice work. All the very Best Love all you Pimps, Hoping to get a response from the mole one day = ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Can mods use random ranges of values in their parameters? If so, I envision using them as a back door to modding individual variation among zombies. E.g., each zombie can spawn with a different amount of hit points, a slightly different movement speed Generating a random float/int is supported (but still noted as broken on my list =) so pretty much anything can be set to any random value. If it doesnt work directly then you can put the value on a variable and use that. <effect_group name="Critical Hits Alternative"> <requirement name="RandomRoll" target="self" min_max="-1,@CriticalChance" operation="GTE" value="-0.2"/> <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryAction" action="AddBuff" target="other" buff="kaboom"> </triggered_effect> </effect_group> This would be a 20% base weapon proc, modified by a CriticalChance bonus from... skills and stuff? "AddBuff" is only one action. Maybe you want the target blinded, ragdolling, make yourself jump 3x as high for a time. I dunno. Whatever? Maybe radiated zombies do an AOE buff that increases the max HP of every other zombie around them and slowly heals them up to the new max. Or make them run faster. Or slower. Or make them emit puke sounds every 5 seconds. Because... reasons. If it has a number to go with it then you can change it. That's the whole point. That's how this works. Hit points or crouch speed are numbers. Just recently I had moved the player base stats to entityclasses so the base stats are declared there instead of using some mysterious default value. Makes it more readable when you can see the list of stats that "make" a player character. So if you want to make a gummy bears item that gives you a jump buff on eating - yummy! Not impressed....until the sledgehammer calls lightning, allows me to fly, can be thrown and automatically comes back to me at will. Everyone knows that Mjِlnir actually does that but we're making a game, not a simulation, so sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Hi Guys, I just wanted open up discussion of Alpha 17. Sorry we have been tight lipped about it, but I wanted to try something different this time where we talk about finished or work in progress features rather than stuff we simply planned. This leads to less frustration because usually once something is started we finish it, where its easy to plan a bunch of stuff and have it slip through the cracks, which is disappointing for all of us. I will say we're ramping up the team, we've hired two new senior programmers, a concept artist, an environment artist, a designer, and we have about 5 new full time world builders. I'll begin showing stuff on youtube real soon. I have two keyboards hooked up at the same time now so I can annoy people if I want, or use the quiet keyboard if I want A17 News: Use these links to skip to the parts of the A17 thread where developers appear! Wallpaper and Trader Bob Images Trader Bob Compound Concept Art First look at bicycle First look at THE HOG Concept Art Video Bathtub and Modular Pallet art assets Dungeon Prefab Video Player Mocap and Vehicles Video First look at new Stag First look at school bus model Zombie Ragdoll and more video Madmole comments and answers questions Madmole comments on newest video concerning Bosses and HP bars Kinyajuu comments on A17 system overhauls Kinyajuu comments on the A17 weapon mod system Videos: Direct links to all of Madmole's A17 Videos! A17 Feature List: Updated as Developers reveal them! Vehicles Overhaul +New Physics +New Vehicle: Bicycle +New Vehicle: Motorcycle +New Camera Controls +Shift button to increase Torque on Bicycle for uphill speed +Space bar to bunny hop on BicycleSleepers 2.0 +Vulture SleepersDungeon POI 2.0 +Environmental Hazards +Zombie Closets +Climbable Trellises and/or Vines +Backstories for many of the POIs +"Helper Blocks" that visually show whether containers are empty or lootable +Random loot containers to make each POI unique for where loot may bePlayer Motion Captured Animation +Separate male and female movement styles +Power moves for melee combat +Players now look up and down and always appear to be breathingWeapon Overhaul +Replace gun parts with attachable modifications, compatible with buff and skill frameworks +Whole guns instead of parts in loot containers +Weapon quality determines how many mods can be attached +Mod quality determines how much it affects the weapon +Removing a mod has a chance of damaging/ destroying the weapon +Size of crosshairs accurately reflects cone of hit probability. +All mods use a single item id# but allow for 30,000+ variable mods possibleBuff Overhaul +Replacing old buff system with a more robust and optimized framework +Designed to work and stack with items, weapons, clothing, skills, perks, and attributes +Can be triggered and modified by events during a buff's lifetime.Progression Overhaul +Replacing old skill system with a more robust and optimized framework, also designed to work with items and buffs. +Character attributes added to better create classes and differentiate play styles.Integrated Survival System +Changes to how health, stamina, fullness, and hydration will work (no details yet)Quest System +Cool new group quests +Dynamically spawns a boss to guard quest objective A17 Changes and Fixes List: Updated as we learn them from the developers! Maple Forest given an autumn colors paletteEvery biome remastered for Unity 2017Game Engine update to Unity 2017Removed player collision from yucca and aloe to improve travelReplace houses in Diersville with dungeon style POI housesXP indicator bar added to HUD directly above the tool beltDirectx11 and Vulkan support addedZombies ragdoll upon impact by vehicles and no longer impede vehicle movementNew art and animations for DeerDeer split into Stag and Doe versionsAdditional paint textures addedWainscotting Block addedCurrent Wellness system removedEnemy HP bar added to HUDSmall decorative pipe set addedWindow trimming added Dropped Features: Served up with total disappointment... BehemothZiplines Oh WoW, Guys really really nice work. All the very Best Love all you Pimps, Hoping to get a response from the mole one day = ) I was a forum noob in our mining chat 1st ever comment xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs If I was madmole and recieved 23 pages of whiny complaints over a non finalized HP bar I,d make everyone wait a LONG time for another video. In fact as much as i love the vids I hope he takes his sweet time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Not impressed....until the sledgehammer calls lightning, allows me to fly, can be thrown and automatically comes back to me at will. So, reading all the updated (debatable) improvements on post 1, it's not mentioning AI improvements anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving most of what I'm seeing, however considering AI was touted as THE reason to upgrade to A17, is it still happening? Or just like most politicians primary promises, has it been dumped? This. This is what I've been trying to find out over the past few months. Given that A16 came out ~4 months ago, if AI improvements were going to be implemented in A17, one would assume one would have heard about this by now. Since pimps anounce and show stuff that is viewable to public, I think they with answer when they have something to show. But an early answer is always welcome. Lol, if you been around since the start, seen the changes and whats been implemented then you know within your heart it Will be done, always. Updates are much faster these days = ) even if its months lol - - - Updated - - - If I was madmole and recieved 23 pages of whiny complaints over a non finalized HP bar I,d make everyone wait a LONG time for another video. In fact as much as i love the vids I hope he takes his sweet time. Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 But the red pill is gone = ( bring it back this green Vits take ages lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 speaking of zombies being dumb.... i seen a few zombie games on steam where they actually boasted having dumb zombies that merely wonder around randomly unless they see hear or smell lunch. i mean really ... think about it... see a zombie, throw a rock to him and he/she will circle it forever until you kill it or get away. seems ok to me. and you all thought it was a bug. <rolls eyes around in innocence> Seeing that you mentioned this, I noticed the original feral doesn't beat the fat-cop up anymore when hes puked on = ( Fun Pimps keep up with classic gems, Please bring this one back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 This. This is what I've been trying to find out over the past few months. Given that A16 came out ~4 months ago, if AI improvements were going to be implemented in A17, one would assume one would have heard about this by now. A month ago you would have said: "Given that A16 came out ~3 months ago, if a new buff system was going to be implemented in A17, one would assume one would have heard about this by now" But nice try getting some information out of them Not impressed....until the sledgehammer calls lightning, allows me to fly, can be thrown and automatically comes back to me at will. Mod the crossbow to look like a hammer, mod the reload animation to show nothing and mod *bolts* to look like a hammer. in A17 you can add a ragdoll effect. So assign an impulse to yourself whenever you press right mouse button and you can fly as well. That's 2/3rd of Mjِlnir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 All moot. None of us could lift it anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vollmer Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 AI & Difficulty I've not read every single post, so apologies if I've missed someone mentioning these topics, but - Any indication that there will be AI improvements in A17, so zombies don't spin in circles or turn and attack the wall on the opposite side of the room - Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time) Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betam4x Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 So, reading all the updated (debatable) improvements on post 1, it's not mentioning AI improvements anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving most of what I'm seeing, however considering AI was touted as THE reason to upgrade to A17, is it still happening? Or just like most politicians primary promises, has it been dumped? Zombies aren't supposed to be smart. - - - Updated - - - I hope food spoilage never happens to be honest. It'd ruin the game for me. If it does happen I hope there is an option in modded options to turn it off. Just like weather survival needs to be in there as a on/off thing because to me it adds nothing to the game other than pointless inventory tetris. To each his own. We all play differently. Some play this game to kill zombies, other play it as an adult version of Minecraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vollmer Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Zombies aren't supposed to be smart. - - - Updated - - - Ooh I wouldn't expect complex tactics, just pure blood lust see food chase food... not see food spin in circle until something hits them, then attack opposite wall even as their food is repeatedly sinking an axe into their back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowDog1942 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I've not read every single post, so apologies if I've missed someone mentioning these topics, but - Any indication that there will be AI improvements in A17, so zombies don't spin in circles or turn and attack the wall on the opposite side of the room - Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time) Thanks, Not a fix all but.... Change zombiestevecrawler to a different walk type... so they dont slowly crawl in...it helps more zeds come quicker increase all fat cop explosion entity damage and range.... remove the basic zombie horde night group as the 4th part of the night and add in gamestaged... Oh and replace a weak zombie like cheerleader in the final gamestage with zombieanimalbear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Zombies aren't supposed to be smart. Well how dumb do you want them? So dumb they can't get from point A to point B in open terrain without spinning in a circle on some invisible object while having you in their sight? Do you want them so dumb they can't even try to break through walls or doors or windows to get at a food source? How dumb are you (and others) talking? Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. Climb stairs, Fences, Trees, Ladders, being able to walk around objects out in the open without getting stuck and just running in circles just because. Attempt to bust down objects in their way when prey is close at hand. lol even a Mouse or an Ant can transverse a maze to get to a food source.. I mean come on.. They are at the least smart enough in just about every movie/book to recognize other zeds from a live human and transverse distances in a decent enough manner and go around objects in their path to get at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 True regarding the Unity port. In regards to zombie intelligence, I suppose there are a few things that need to happen, depending on the zombie lore. If zombies are completely braindead and just animated flesh with one desire = eat human flesh, then at the very least, the need to be able to pile up (swam each other) to get you if you are on a ledge directly above them or dig in droves to your underground base. However, if we consider them somewhat like animals with a basic instinct and a slight version of a brain (at least a brain-step), then even the dumbest animals can find alternative routes around obstacles or change their body shape (bend or crawl) to get under or over a block. With a human just infected, maybe he/she still has some engineering smarts about him/her and can get the general sensible use of basic tools (club) or that if I fell this tree, that perch will fall. But it's not just about zombie lore, but mainly about the entertainment of the game. i would like to see ledge fishing countered with true dangerous vultures that (NO dont pick up players) but will dig claws into a player and higher chance for infection and thus when flying in swooping action would also knock down a player. imagine getting knocked off of your safety ledge by a stinking bird dont get that wrong i am not against players on a ledge as its one of my tactics.. but right now the only hazard we have is vultures (depending on location vultures just arent in every biome and should have chance to be in any) and spitters (i hate spitters, we were brought up to not spit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Its about as smart as a cat and dog. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on. So if someone (you?) wants to look into their open source (if it still is open) have at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on. So if someone (you?) wants to look into their open source (if it still is open) have at it! Ohh No No.. I don't think it's trivial at all. They will find a way if presented an opportunity to get what they want. Instinct or Intelligence which ever you want to call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Well how dumb do you want them? So dumb they can't get from point A to point B in open terrain without spinning in a circle on some invisible object while having you in their sight? Do you want them so dumb they can't even try to break through walls or doors or windows to get at a food source? How dumb are you (and others) talking? Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. Climb stairs, Fences, Trees, Ladders, being able to walk around objects out in the open without getting stuck and just running in circles just because. Attempt to bust down objects in their way when prey is close at hand. lol even a Mouse or an Ant can transverse a maze to get to a food source.. I mean come on.. They are at the least smart enough in just about every movie/book to recognize other zeds from a live human and transverse distances in a decent enough manner and go around objects in their path to get at us. +1 I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouch Quit It Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 +1 I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace... Wait...are you saying that the spinning thing and not paying attention to you aren't the finished product for zombie AI...Wow this game is gonna be good!! Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death2gnomes Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 AI is not only for the zeds. Player AI is still in testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Player AI is still in testing. Indeed. Its gonna take forever - - - Updated - - - Wait...are you saying that the spinning thing and not paying attention to you aren't the finished product for zombie AI...Wow this game is gonna be good!! Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs Spinning is a feature. I accept it like that and then smash them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 +1 I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace... There are too many ways to spoof the system right now, digging underground is only one of many ways. I'm sure you know this. The real question is what is 7D2D? -Turret defense? Yes, if you build a vanilla above ground fort with turrets and spam up some ammo for them. Otherwise, making a gimmicky above ground fort is as safe as being at bedrock. -PvP? No, not close yet. -Survival? Yes and this one only requires the player to think a little. The current Turret Defense mode and Survival game play styles in 7D2D don't really blend well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat0ut Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 +1 I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace... Bigger problem is that zombies are able to spawn in players base via screaming screamer zombie. There should be limited NO spawn zone to claim block's line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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