Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

actually, if they were to just dump the game now, without great reason, without finishing what investors (jumpstarters) paid for, they could be very much sued through court if someone felt the need. It's called fraud, and it's illegal, and you get charged for it. I'm predicting this is going to become a thing very soon with the rash of indy devs that are bait and run. Not saying this is The fun pimps at all, I'm just clarifying, that when you take money for a service, you don't provide that service, it's fraud.

 

Actually.

 

Steam has made their wording on Early Access games vague enough, so complaints under Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act could be avoided.

 

Laws are funny, its the letter of the law and not the intent of the law that wins.

 

skippy0330 is talking about Kickstarter terms rather than anything to do with Steam. Having said that, they're still wrong. There have been various lawsuits about failed Kickstarters, and the precedent - and their terms - are clear.

 

The Kickstarter is under no legal obligation to finish the project. Your pledge was expicitly a donation to fund their attempt, not a transaction in exchange for goods or an investment (that's an important distinction, you're a donor, not an investor). If the project isn't finished, then it might hurt the Kickstarter's reputation but there's nothing you can do about it from a legal/contract perspective.

 

On the other hand, if the Kickstarter offers you a specific reward for your pledge level then that is legally binding and they must give you that reward or return your pledge to you.

 

(Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice!)

[Roland]

There has never been weekly updates lol. Your thinking of bug fixes in like .1 .2 etc but the alpha .0 have always taken a while. 3 months 6 months etc. So have no idea what your on about or which game your talking bout but it def wasnt this one

 

Actually he was correct. Fun Pimp Friday’s we’re content updates and not just bug fix patches. They didn’t last long because the developers didn’t like having a predetermined date to push out content ready or not.

[Genosis]

(Obligatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice!)

 

That's something a lawyer would say. *narrows eyes in suspicion*

 

Would be cool if they are able to meet all their goal/stretch goals, particularly the "playing as a zombie" (Zombie Nomad Mode) one that I hadn't seen any mention of for as long as I have been creeping the forums. That would challenge some base designs for sure, if it is implemented well.

[Tin]

That's something a lawyer would say. *narrows eyes in suspicion*

 

Would be cool if they are able to meet all their goal/stretch goals, particularly the "playing as a zombie" (Zombie Nomad Mode) one that I hadn't seen any mention of for as long as I have been creeping the forums. That would challenge some base designs for sure, if it is implemented well.

 

What would make it even better is if the player as a zombie, could gather up surrounding zombies and have them follow you

[Roland]

It would be cool to be able to give basic commands to nearby zombies.

[Inmyh3ad]

A large stilt base would be the only workaround until that particular issue is addressed. Build a large structure supported by columns, and the hordes, if they spawned within your borders, would be under your base instead of inside.

 

I had an approximate 100x200 wall built around the farmland in Navezgane (as much as I tried to convince my wife not to surround that much of the cornfield, meh), and we had random wandering spawns within the walls, and you can only imagine how horde night went. I had to whip around and kill a zombie inside the wall after every couple deaths outside the wall.

 

I was ok with a 90x90(ish) compound with a few houses and structures, we just never did a horde night in there.

 

I also thought about a stilt base, but i'm not a great fan tbh. I'd like to build a huge wall, like a square eg 150x150, so I can build inside the walls (buildings, underground mines, ponds etc).

Guess I have to go with stilt then. It takes away the aspect that I love from building on the ground.

Like you are getting dropped as a survivor in a zombie apocalyps and you try to set up a huge 'camp' with other survivors and create some sort of a community. Like in the tv show The Walking Dead. Hope this will be possible some day.

[Nugetti]

It depends on the things being added, doesn't it? If there is a system which by itself will take one year to implement, how do you break it up in to smaller chunks and have it be in there? Reasonably, it won't be in working order when only part of it is in there.

 

I'm pretty sure that TFP has done something like that (bandits? stealth? vehicles?), and the response has been grief for not finishing something that they started. (In some cases, people were quite happy to let the modders make those pieces usable, but plenty of others were not okay with that.)

 

Which is better?

Sure thing, if something takes one year to develop, then it takes one year. To clarify, I was mainly referring to the current situation; at the moment there are multiple big things in progress (vehicles, game engine update, overhaul of core gameplay systems etc.). This is fine, A17 will be one hell of an update. I just hope that the next time around the time between updates will be shorter.

 

Those last 2 sentences shows a lack of understanding. You are assuming way too many things. 1) Half the features may not equal half the work. One major feature may have been 75 to 80 percent of the work. 2) Even if it did you are assuming that half the work could get done in half the time but it may not be possible to break it down in that way. Taking 2 devs to throw at the same issue will not cut your dev time in half. At least not for every task.

 

The part about 2 debug cycles instead of 1 "dropping the development rate slightly" is also not always true either.

 

From a dev standpoint Early Access is a lot of extra work. They have to put out much more playable code more often than a game developed just in house. The upside to the developer is that they get an infusion of money from people interested in the game and development process. The problem is that people think they bought a game and what they bought was a chance to watch the development process and at the end they get a free copy of the game.

I do realize that all features do not mean the same amount of work, some take more time and effort than others.

 

Perhaps my text came out overly "numbered" (~year, ~50-50 etc.) which made me sound like I'm pulling out crude numbers from my ass.

 

Anyway, my main point was that I was concerned about the recent disappointment of players outside the forum, since most negativity seems to arise from the subject of development slowness. I myself realize that development is moving at full blast, but to someone who doesn't follow the A17 Dev Diary it might seem like "the game is never updated".

[Aldranon]

If playing as a zombie becomes a thing then that would be one of the most obvious features.

Also acquiring skills like climbing, acid spitting, regen, maybe buffing nearby zombies if you become bosslike enough.

 

Maybe you'd have to fight and eat other zombies to get a shot at gaining their skills so you either use them (as followers) or snack them.

 

You gain more Mojo, pheromones or whats-it, each time you kill a survivor so more and more zombies follow you.

 

The zombie perk trees:

Personal powers.

Zombie control.

Radiation skills.

 

Sounds fun.

[Infected226]

Well on a side note, anyone here play pokemon go?

[Tin]

If playing as a zombie becomes a thing then that would be one of the most obvious features.

Also acquiring skills like climbing, acid spitting, regen, maybe buffing nearby zombies if you become bosslike enough.

 

Maybe you'd have to fight and eat other zombies to get a shot at gaining their skills so you either use them (as followers) or snack them.

 

but would we be able to use item

Gain zombie levels: Be able to use simple tools.. axe/club etc,. switch out used armor? Maybe not make them but use found items.

That would be fun and keep the players game going.

Zombie events: Find enclaves of survivors to wipe out..

[Genosis]

I also thought about a stilt base, but i'm not a great fan tbh. I'd like to build a huge wall, like a square eg 150x150, so I can build inside the walls (buildings, underground mines, ponds etc).

Guess I have to go with stilt then. It takes away the aspect that I love from building on the ground.

Like you are getting dropped as a survivor in a zombie apocalyps and you try to set up a huge 'camp' with other survivors and create some sort of a community. Like in the tv show The Walking Dead. Hope this will be possible some day.

 

I had this exact imagining when joining a public server for the first time. They said: Big community town! lots available for new arrivals! Sounded great, I envisioned this haven carved out of the landscape, walls and trenches, having a garden, etc... then I found this stark silver structure in all stainless steel, suspended 10 blocks above the ground, and you had to build your "community house" on top of this silver platform. Meh. I stayed there for a couple weeks while I got my bearings, leveled up, and had enough supplies to survive the advanced gamestage it was on. Then, moved out on my own within a couple game hours drive away.

 

The most recent build my wife and a friend or two did recently was closer to this vision; building compounds around 90x90 (enough for several claim blocks, though I increased the range to 100 for one big claim and I managed the compound), and it turned out quite nice. We did a couple themes, including modern, "old west" with churches and saloons, and the next I anticipated a medieval style with moat and a drawbridge and a castle in the middle of a courtyard. I would have liked something that expanded larger, but previous experiences with 100x200 yielded that impossible.

[PurgatoryWolf]

large compounds are cool, but stuff can still spawn inside your walls.

[Inmyh3ad]

I had this exact imagining when joining a public server for the first time. They said: Big community town! lots available for new arrivals! Sounded great, I envisioned this haven carved out of the landscape, walls and trenches, having a garden, etc... then I found this stark silver structure in all stainless steel, suspended 10 blocks above the ground, and you had to build your "community house" on top of this silver platform. Meh. I stayed there for a couple weeks while I got my bearings, leveled up, and had enough supplies to survive the advanced gamestage it was on. Then, moved out on my own within a couple game hours drive away.

 

The most recent build my wife and a friend or two did recently was closer to this vision; building compounds around 90x90 (enough for several claim blocks, though I increased the range to 100 for one big claim and I managed the compound), and it turned out quite nice. We did a couple themes, including modern, "old west" with churches and saloons, and the next I anticipated a medieval style with moat and a drawbridge and a castle in the middle of a courtyard. I would have liked something that expanded larger, but previous experiences with 100x200 yielded that impossible.

 

Well, I'd love to achieve that too one day! Sounds exactly what i'm thinking off.

So you didn't have any trouble with a 90x90 area?

[vitamin]

\Data\Config\Localization.txt

 

Just a random question, have you thought about using .po files instead?

[Janna3921]

I wasn't talking about bugs that are already known, but the ones that the community will eventually find after waiting over a year. I'm not sure if you caught my point or not, but this late in the game, it seems that it could help to find bugs sooner rather than later, AND have the community appeased at the same time by getting something to do other than be disappointed. Like I said, it's just an opinion that may or may not be based on a little experience with this kind of thing.

 

That would have worked if they hadn't decided to update to the new Unity. I'm gathering from what I read that they were ready to release it to the streamers and then the new Unity was released and thought "hey, let switch to that, it shouldn't cause to many problems" Yeah, Murphy's Law, if ♥♥♥♥ can happen, It Will. It happened, lots and lot and lots of problems. That is what they are trying to fix now, all the new bugs and problems. Once those are fixed, then we get to go bug hunting. Yeah

[The Gronk]

large compounds are cool, but stuff can still spawn inside your walls.

 

Rings of layered defences, stuff spawns between the layers and is easily contained.

[Janna3921]

Thanks. I looked at your other posts that you were making and realized that you were playing catch up, but that was after I already had responded to you. I should have paid attention, too, and I should have given you the benefit of the doubt. You're a pretty kind and considerate person, and I should have known that you wouldn't be like that.

 

 

 

What happened to Midnight Rook? We need some more cheer in here.

 

 

Thanks for the comment that I am kind and considerate, my hubby would said I was grouchy and contrary. He's family, I can grouch at him,

I don't know what happened to Midnight Rook. And we do need more cheer, where are the zanies that used to run around acting like nuts and making everyone laugh?

[Genosis]

Well, I'd love to achieve that too one day! Sounds exactly what i'm thinking off.

So you didn't have any trouble with a 90x90 area?

 

I didn't on a day-to-day basis, no. I had wanderers, they got chewed up by spikes before they could do any serious wall damage. I didn't have a blood moon night inside the walls, however. We chose an independent horde base 50 blocks away or so, and we were still somewhat concerned about hordes spawning inside the compound, and beating their way out. (this didn't happen, but may have just been luck spawning in other directions).

[Gnomaana]

"hey, let switch to that, it shouldn't cause to many problems"

 

Ignoring the rest of the post because I'm not sure where you are getting your information on "were ready to release to the streamers". I think it was more close to "hey, let switch to that, it offers benefits that outweigh any problems that might crop up"

[beerfly]

It would be cool to be able to give basic commands to nearby zombies.

 

Fetch, catch and piss off

 

Btw I hope that you know that the croco that will be the last one alive among the smilies could live for millions of years. They are dinosours you know ?

[Inmyh3ad]

I didn't on a day-to-day basis, no. I had wanderers, they got chewed up by spikes before they could do any serious wall damage. I didn't have a blood moon night inside the walls, however. We chose an independent horde base 50 blocks away or so, and we were still somewhat concerned about hordes spawning inside the compound, and beating their way out. (this didn't happen, but may have just been luck spawning in other directions).

 

This sounds good. Maybe i'll work the same way you did. Seperate horde base and then my 'community base'. Guess 80-100 blocks from eachother will be fine.

However, it's just me and a friend so maybe we'll be fine with a 50x50 base or something. I just like some buildings, ponds, garden etc.

[ecv]

I didn't read all the backlog yet, but I believe the only thing not going smoothly is neither the quality of the current game, nor the actual release date, but plain and simple bad public relations. People have no trouble with waiting and enduring, if they have a reason, a worthy cause.

A part time dude in the area, visiting the team for an hour a week, getting short updates and relaying those to us, the mostly faithful gamers and zombie aficionados.

 

I am happy that we won't get a too early released mess that needs two months until we can set up a long term server.

 

I have always thought EA is for people who don't only want the product, but also the chance to contribute and help in any way possible. There needs to be a hell of a lot of information what EA really is and what it means. Steam / Valve is pretty much neglecting this area, which is strange, since so many epic games are in the makings there.

 

Most people confuse the real EA, which is happening here, with the strategic EA that many other companies do, which are more like Beta release candidates with 90% finished work. Of course they go final after a year. With 7dtd, you got to experience the whole journey from idea to the unique gamestage setting game that it is. You can subtract the time until a14/15 when you want to compare this to other, strategic EA titles, seriously.

 

This editor sucks on firefox mobile, jumping around all the time. Is that only me? :-)

[Cazmyr]

I have never made a huge base like the ones you all have been talking about. They are fun to imagine though! It seems the size of the spawn free zone will be how many people you have and therefore bedrolls.

 

If you have 2 people then you can have a 62 x 31 rectangle as safe, if you place them exactly.

 

For the 150 x 150 base you would need to mod the sleeping bag spawn free zone or have 25 people's sleeping bags to cover that space.

 

If I had 2 people and wanted to build a huge area, like we are talking about then I would just make sure all the most valuable/ important items are in a structure within the 62 x 31 zone.

[Janna3921]

You figured wrong.

 

He really won't want to do any more Q&A sessions but he likes making gameplay videos and plans to make another. Q&A takes a lot more time and almost always gravitates towards future features which I can just tell you right now Joel will just say, "Maybe after gold..." to everything. They are on top of issues surrounding reduced Zombie loot drops. It's only a new issue to you guys. They've had weeks and weeks to discuss balancing.

 

Oh well, I thought it would make it easier on Joel, get some questions answered, "What are we going to do for glue? ! ? ! " (asked in quavering voices by players) and let him play for fun not for people to pick on. But, what makes him happiest, he find more enjoyable is what counts.

[Inmyh3ad]

I have never made a huge base like the ones you all have been talking about. They are fun to imagine though! It seems the size of the spawn free zone will be how many people you have and therefore bedrolls.

 

If you have 2 people then you can have a 62 x 31 rectangle as safe, if you place them exactly.

 

For the 150 x 150 base you would need to mod the sleeping bag spawn free zone or have 25 people's sleeping bags to cover that space.

 

If I had 2 people and wanted to build a huge area, like we are talking about then I would just make sure all the most valuable/ important items are in a structure within the 62 x 31 zone.

 

Thanks for the valuable info. So the 62 x 31 zone is completely free from zombie spawns inside the walls if I understand correctly?

So we have to place the bedrolls down on a specific block then, right?