Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[hiemfire]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

As soon as Madmole gives the say so I’m sure that Crater Creator will get it started. Are we really ready for arguments over armor, outfits, bandits, weather, and the traders becoming an even more critical factor in the game?

 

I hope they've invested in an asbestos undergarments company and have begun stockpiling. A very special subset of people are likely waiting with baited breath and HNO3 canisters primed for the reveal of the first three.

[beerfly]

Sometimes I use pois as bases. Before build my own base in the middle of nowhere. It is awesome addition that you guys gave them names, but is it possible to add a simple option, in land claim block, to name the poi we use and upgrade, and instead to be in Home of Jack Canada be in My Hive or whatever our brains invent ?

[meganoth]

12 minutes ago, beerfly said:

Sometimes I use pois as bases. Before build my own base in the middle of nowhere. It is awesome addition that you guys gave them names, but is it possible to add a simple option, in land claim block, to name the poi we use and upgrade, and instead to be in Home of Jack Canada be in My Hive or whatever our brains invent ?

 

So you want to hide the fact that you shamelessly stole the property of Jack Canada while he is momentarily out there eating some brains? 😁

 

[beerfly]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

So you want to hide the fact that you shamelessly stole the property of Jack Canada while he is momentarily out there eating some brains? 😁

 

Just quietly preparing for the times when bandits will show up on the front door and ask for documents of the property. I don`t wanna mess with The Duke...too much. 

[RipClaw]

6 minutes ago, beerfly said:

Just quietly preparing for the times when bandits will show up on the front door and ask for documents of the property. I don`t wanna mess with The Duke...too much. 

What should I do? I usually build my bases from scratch but have never applied for planning permission. 😔

[For4ger]

6 hours ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

Hey, I've been a long time fan and player of this game, and I created this account just to say this:

 

The magazine grind is way too much. Not only is it silly, and not even realistic ( I get it, realism in a video game is silly), you end up finding loot way better than you'll ever be able to craft CONSTANTLY. 

 

Devs, PLEASE either revert to the previous system, or figure out something new that actually makes sense. 

 

If I'm some kind of engineer capable of iron smithing, it makes no sense for me to find random "engineering" magazines through out the world, MULTIPLE of them, to understand how to work steel.  
 

I understand your intent was to prolong the advancement through the tech trees, but this is FAR too much and needlessly silly. 

 

Thanks, bye.

It's true, too much paper has appeared in the game, and books, and magazines, and recipes. I want to loot POIs for physically useful items, not for a million crafting magazines.

[Eduho]

Hace 6 horas, Justsomedudewholikespasta dijo:

Oye, he sido un fan y jugador de este juego desde hace mucho tiempo, y creé esta cuenta solo para decir esto:

 

La rutina de la revista es demasiado. No solo es tonto, y ni siquiera realista (lo entiendo, el realismo en un videojuego es tonto), sino que terminas encontrando botín mucho mejor de lo que podrás crear CONSTANTEMENTE.

 

Desarrolladores, POR FAVOR vuelvan al sistema anterior o descubran algo nuevo que realmente tenga sentido.

 

Si soy algún tipo de ingeniero capaz de herrar, no tiene sentido para mí encontrar revistas de "ingeniería" aleatorias en todo el mundo, MÚLTIPLES de ellas, para entender cómo trabajar el acero.
 

Entiendo que su intención era prolongar el avance a través de los árboles tecnológicos, pero esto es demasiado e innecesariamente tonto.

 

Gracias, adiós.

No creo que este tipo de comentarios sean utiles ....

[Eduho]

3 hours ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

Con todo respeto...

 

Con todos mis respetos , en el momento que falta al respeto por mucha razon que lleve,( que no la lleva) y pierdes las formas , pierdes toda posibilidad de llevar razon alguna , creo que hay muchas formas de decir las cosas , quizas no has estado acertado en tus comentarios , aunque esta tamnien es mi opinión . (Espero este bien traducido y en cualquier caso si te has ofendido te pido disculpas )

Edited August 2, 2023 by meganoth
removed offensive content from quote (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

The magazine grind is way too much. Not only is it silly, and not even realistic ( I get it, realism in a video game is silly), you end up finding loot way better than you'll ever be able to craft CONSTANTLY. 

Crafting skils are based on how many magazines you find and looting is based on your level, the biome and the POI you are in. If you have increased your XP gain, don't loot much, or are in a biome other than Pine Forest, looting will most likely always outperform crafting.

 

However, if you know how the magazine system works and which perks to pick, you can craft end-game items in no time. Check out IzPrebuilt's current series on Youtube. He had a motorcycle on day 5, a crucible on day 10, a gyrocopter on day 11 and steel tools on day 13. The secret is not to spread your points too thin but instead focus on 3 or 4 perks at a time.

 

7 hours ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

Devs, PLEASE either revert to the previous system, or figure out something new that actually makes sense. 

Not going to happen. The Fun Pimps have only very rarely reverted something completely and never when it comes to progress.

The best you can hope for is that they continue to balancing it based on the data they get from the telemetry in the game.

 

[beerfly]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

What should I do? 

A baseball bat.

[Justsomedudewholikespasta]

1 hour ago, Eduho said:

Con todos mis respetos , en el momento que falta al respeto por mucha razon que lleve,( que no la lleva) y pierdes las formas , pierdes toda posibilidad de llevar razon alguna , creo que hay muchas formas de decir las cosas , quizas no has estado acertado en tus comentarios , aunque esta tamnien es mi opinión . (Espero este bien traducido y en cualquier caso si te has ofendido te pido disculpas )

The translations aren't helping us, my friend. Regardless,  be well and safe. 

 

both of us are clearly are passionate about this game.

44 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

However, if you know how the magazine system works

 

Does anyone? It's not exactly lined out, and I don't want to have to watch some particular streamer or youtube content creator for the scoop. 

 

This is all indicative of poor game design.

I'm just sayin, how many other games make you gather tons and tons of magazines before you can make iron age weapons, when your drops are giving you AK-47's and 9mm pistols?

The FunPimps got high and came up with some magazine system and forced it into their loot system. It's stupid and doesn't make sense.

 

[Roland]

11 hours ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

It's stupid and doesn't make sense.

it’s not and it does. The system makes more sense than learn by doing ever did as far as how human beings acquire new knowledge without years and years of personal experimentation and many trials of failure before success is gained. Learn by Doing is a great system for honing and mastering knowledge and skills you already understand. Learn by reading AKA Learn from some authority on a a subject you don’t yet know is perfectly reasonable. 
 

You can’t really think we are finding full and complete copies of the same magazines. We are finding fragments and pieces and once you find enough information you’ve basically researched some old world knowledge you didn’t know before. 
 

Granted…some topics are pretty basic but it’s a game so not 100% reflecting reality. If you think about how you’ve gained every bit of new knowledge, it is most likely from reading, listening, and/or watching someone who already possessed the knowledge. 
 

You don’t like the new system which is noted. No system will please everyone. But it isn’t stupid or nonsensical. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Syphon583]

15 minutes ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

This is all indicative of poor game design.

I'm just sayin, how many other games make you gather tons and tons of magazines before you can make iron age weapons, when your drops are giving you AK-47's and 9mm pistols?

The FunPimps got high and came up with some magazine system and forced it into their loot system. It's stupid and doesn't make sense.

I don't know, it's been very clear to me and many other players how the system works from the outset. To be fair, it is a unique system not found in many other games that I'm aware of, but the information TFP provided prior to release explained the system really well. Could the system be explained more within the game? Sure. There's time to add in additional player tips and guides.

 

Given the fact that the game is still in experimental, balance changes will surely come and hopefully the imbalance you feel is there is ironed out. I for one have enjoyed the new system immensely, and while it does have some quirks, I look forward to the system evolving moving forward.

 

Finally, no, they should NOT revert back to the old system. This is the whole point of experimental-to test things. The players job is to provide valuable feedback instead of insults. You are certainly entitled to an opinion, but if you aren't willing or able to provide constructive feedback, simply say "I don't like it" and move on.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

Does anyone? It's not exactly lined out, and I don't want to have to watch some particular streamer or youtube content creator for the scoop. 

Which perks you have to take to push the corresponding skills can be learned by reading the descriptions of the skills. And the rest you learn by observation and a bit of logical thinking. If you want to know it exactly you can of course analyze the XML files.

 

1 hour ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

I'm just sayin, how many other games make you gather tons and tons of magazines before you can make iron age weapons, when your drops are giving you AK-47's and 9mm pistols?

You do realize that these 3 different weapons with 3 different perks and skills? Since you mainly find the magazines in whose perks you put points, it is quite clear that you level other crafting skills much slower. And that you then find a better AK-47 than you can craft if you don't have a single point in machine guns is not surprising.

 

1 hour ago, Justsomedudewholikespasta said:

The FunPimps got high and came up with some magazine system and forced it into their loot system. It's stupid and doesn't make sense.

Looting is not my favorite thing either and I wish the Fun Pimps would offer an alternative for people who don't like to loot. But since this system isn't going away, it's best to learn how to make it work for you.

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Gamida]

I have voiced my opinion in the past about how I would like something in the game to be. Never always turned out how I wanted.

I have known though that this is a game that someone else is making and I really have very little input on how it will be, if any at all.

For instance if the pimps suddenly decided that you could make a stew with water, meat and feathers and if you eat it then for 10 minutes you could fly.

Well, that is what they want in their game and I really have no say. I can argue about it and if not changed I can just play like it is or I can just never play the game again.

For me history will likely repeat itself and I will play it how it is as I do really like the game overall.

This is just my opinion, not a fact.

 

Also if anyone makes a flying stew mod make sure you give me credit for the idea

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Gamida (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

14 hours ago, Roland said:

As soon as Madmole gives the say so I’m sure that Crater Creator will get it started. Are we really ready for arguments over armor, outfits, bandits, weather, and the traders becoming an even more critical factor in the game?
 

Of course we are!

im getting ready to argue or defend 

[RipClaw]

I raised my concerns when the magazine system was announced and I see the difficulties that players have to deal with. But I know that the magazine system is not going away. Asking the fun pimps to revert it is pointless. Past examples have shown that this will not happen.

So I'm doing the same thing I did when learning by doing was replaced by the skill tree or when zombies became structural engineers with titanium fists that can dig or when a walking wrecking ball was added to the game. I adapt and try to find a strategy that works for me.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Crater Creator
removed response to deleted content (see edit history)

[Morloc]

23 hours ago, Roland said:

They already have the theme and tone they want for the next game and they are creating all the art to match what they want from the outset.

 

 

...but this "next game" might be a 3D version of CandyLand.
Could we please have a few more cookies?

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Morloc (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

 

 

Looting is not my favorite thing either and I wish the Fun Pimps would offer an alternative for people who don't like to loot. But since this system isn't going away, it's best to learn how to make it work for you.

 

gotta disagree

Scavaging and looting is so fun!
i love finding something so good in something so simple and stupid
and i love beating this with my Impact or ratchet, it feels great to Strip a WHOLE building of everything.

granted the mags aren't the same as finding that ONE BP you have been looking for but still. its fun imo

Edited August 2, 2023 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[Slingblade2040]

17 hours ago, Roland said:

As soon as Madmole gives the say so I’m sure that Crater Creator will get it started. Are we really ready for arguments over armor, outfits, bandits, weather, and the traders becoming an even more critical factor in the game?
 

Of course we are!

So is that last part a joke or is that a serious thing? Also you left out the possibility of another rework to the perk and attributes system. 

[hiemfire]

1 hour ago, Morloc said:

 

 

...but this "next game" might be a 3D version of CandyLand.
Could we please have a few more cookies?

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

 

 

With TFP's naming conventions "Candyland" takes on a whole new meaning. 😁😆

[Guppycur]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

it’s not and it does. The system makes more sense than learn by doing ever did as far as how human beings acquire new knowledge without years and years of personal experimentation and many trials of failure before success is gained. Learn by Doing is a great system for honing and mastering knowledge and skills you already understand by Learn by reading AKA Learn from some authority on a a subject you don’t yet know is perfectly reasonable. 
 

You can’t really think we are finding full and complete copies of the same magazines. We are finding fragments and pieces and once you find enough information you’ve basically researched some old world knowledge you didn’t know before. 
 

Granted…some topics are pretty basic but it’s a game so not 100% reflecting reality. If you think about how you’ve gained every bit of new knowledge, it is most likely from reading, listening, and/or watching someone who already possessed the knowledge. 
 

You don’t like the new system which is noted. No system will please everyone. But it isn’t stupid or nonsensical. 

 

Wrong. 😉

 

Learn by doing is literally how we have evolved as a species.  For the purposes of the game and its accelerated time, LBD makes a ton more sense.  Yeh yeh it was broken in how it was implemented, you should never have been able to gain the knowledge of say, making concrete by spamming stone axes, however it's incredibly realistic to make better stone axes the more and more you make.

 

Hell you described LBD yourself when you said 'and many trials of failure before success is gained'.  I like that idea.  Failure chances eat the materials.  Let's do it. 

 

...finding what is essentially the same magazine over and over again in loot is "Learn by Reading", which would make sense in some contexts but not the more abstract materials you read over and over again the smarter you become on the subject.  All of a sudden the world is filled with magazines?  C'mon man. 😃  They should have disintegrated faster than wood rots.

 

The perfect system IMO would have been LBD where it makes sense (making better quality items), LBR where it makes sense (learning new skills as a baseline for later LBD), and a Skill tree to select from on character generation (old world skills you start off with as a baseline).

 

Making a stone axe?  Come across a "primatives" book, or try it on your own with a chance to fail rate, or start off with a skill.  Making a better stone axe?  Doing it over and over again.  Forging a scrap or even iron axe?  Find a book that teaches you basic forgery skills, then find a book that's specific to that *type* of item (not a lot of difference between forging an axe and a machete, but a far cry from forging bullets).

 

The good news is, we've probably got 2 more alphas left, and tfp likes to change systems entirely so... fingers crossed. 😃

 

Let me summarize.  LBD was the best method, it was just executed veeeery poorly, by allowing LBD to learn things not associated with the repetitive action.

[Riamus]

25 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

 

Wrong. 😉

 

Learn by doing is literally how we have evolved as a species.  For the purposes of the game and its accelerated time, LBD makes a ton more sense.  Yeh yeh it was broken in how it was implemented, you should never have been able to gain the knowledge of say, making concrete by spamming stone axes, however it's incredibly realistic to make better stone axes the more and more you make.

 

Hell you described LBD yourself when you said 'and many trials of failure before success is gained'.  I like that idea.  Failure chances eat the materials.  Let's do it. 

 

...finding what is essentially the same magazine over and over again in loot is "Learn by Reading", which would make sense in some contexts but not the more abstract materials you read over and over again the smarter you become on the subject.  All of a sudden the world is filled with magazines?  C'mon man. 😃  They should have disintegrated faster than wood rots.

 

The perfect system IMO would have been LBD where it makes sense (making better quality items), LBR where it makes sense (learning new skills as a baseline for later LBD), and a Skill tree to select from on character generation (old world skills you start off with as a baseline).

 

Making a stone axe?  Come across a "primatives" book, or try it on your own with a chance to fail rate, or start off with a skill.  Making a better stone axe?  Doing it over and over again.  Forging a scrap or even iron axe?  Find a book that teaches you basic forgery skills, then find a book that's specific to that *type* of item (not a lot of difference between forging an axe and a machete, but a far cry from forging bullets).

 

The good news is, we've probably got 2 more alphas left, and tfp likes to change systems entirely so... fingers crossed. 😃

 

Let me summarize.  LBD was the best method, it was just executed veeeery poorly, by allowing LBD to learn things not associated with the repetitive action.

I think the idea that every magazine you find is the same one makes you feel like it makes no sense.  But these could easily be different issues of the maybe for now details on each one that all help you learn.  That being said, this would make more sense as technical manuals or something rather than magazines.  Magazines can give you some info on creating things but generally not a lot.  Still, it works.

 

Also, how long do you think it has been since the apocalypse?  Paper in magazines or books left on shelves and other places that aren't wet will last for a pretty long time.  I mean, we have found documents and manuscripts from thousands of years ago.  And I think the game is only set maybe 5 years after the apocalypse, so parody being around isn't unrealistic at all.

 

However, I do agree that a mix of systems would probably be best.  LBD is okay for something where you can't exploit it and where it can level up fast enough to match your speed in the game without being a grindfest.  But on its own, it isn't great.

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Guppycur said:

Find a book that teaches you basic forgery skills

I don't think that means what you think it means... 

[vergilsparda]

12 hours ago, beerfly said:

Sometimes I use pois as bases. Before build my own base in the middle of nowhere. It is awesome addition that you guys gave them names, but is it possible to add a simple option, in land claim block, to name the poi we use and upgrade, and instead to be in Home of Jack Canada be in My Hive or whatever our brains invent ?

expanding on this, an option to simply remove the name and difficulty pop up when the poi is in a land claim block would be good too 😭

 

The ability to rename them would be sick but even just the option of it not appearing after some time would be cool!

 

also a question for the POI builders/renovators, if you have the time to answer: what's your workflow like on updating POIs for alpha 21 and beyond (or even just for creating new POIs)? Especially in the case of shrinking houses or buildings that are to large (or unrealistically sized)?