Endgame activities?

[Lemmers]

I think randomized Legendary Loot will be a big draw (if it's still coming, Madmole spoke of it long ago), so there's an incentive to keep looting POIs even after you have all T6 gear for those rare named items with randomized stats. Bandits obviously will add more replayability, and hopefully some kind of friendly NPC system with quests that makes the world feel more "alive". Like if you can keep rescuing NPCs and herd them into a village, you could keep seeing this place grow and thrive and you'd be invested in saving it from bandit attacks and the blood moon horde. The new shape menu will make building bases more fun, and the simplified system means you can build some creative stuff right away without needing concrete for advanced shapes.

Ultimately though, with a survival crafting game the best moments are always going to be the early and midgame where you're exploring the map, looting, and leveling. I'm glad Random Gen will be improved so new maps will feel different, and the same goes for all the dozens of new POIs being added. Sometimes you just gotta say, "I think we beat this map, let's go try another one!" and that's part of the experience.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Lemmers (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Out of all the options presented, its the replayability that brings me back.   Also, when I want to look for a change of pace, I try to actively build outposts and expand operation here and there across the map.  I do this both in SP and MP.   This keeps the game fresh for me because sometimes I have to change my environment to feel like things are progressing.   I don't really have much fun sitting in giant fortresses and crafting bases for weeks at a time.   And that's the key thing to me.   When I get utterly bored of a map I make a new one, and start fresh and the challenges start anew.  Once I get to about gamestage 150+ everything slows down considerably for me.

I have had playthroughs were I loaded up my 4x4, drove to a far away town, setup an outpost base with bench and forge, and just started looting the town.  Then when it came close to BM night, load everything back up, drive back to my base location, upgrade and prep for the horde.  Sometimes I would even just take over a sturdy POI for an one and done BM base.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Out of all the options presented, its the replayability that brings me back.   Also, when I want to look for a change of pace, I try to actively build outposts and expand operation here and there across the map.  I do this both in SP and MP.   This keeps the game fresh for me because sometimes I have to change my environment to feel like things are progressing.   I don't really have much fun sitting in giant fortresses and crafting bases for weeks at a time.   And that's the key thing to me.   When I get utterly bored of a map I make a new one, and start fresh and the challenges start anew.  Once I get to about gamestage 150+ everything slows down considerably for me.

 

I think keeping things fresh is really what gets me to cycle on.   Also, trying new scenarios REALLY digs me in.   I @#$#$ love Romero mod in single player.   The initial gamestage challenges make it damn near impossible for me to fully raid medium sized POI's from start to finish without having to drag the horde into the street and lining up your headshots.  Large POI's are a damn nightmare, but it just... gets to me.  The futility of survival.  Also, loosing your backpack and toolbelt I find to be integral to actually feeling like there's a death penalty.  If you never loose anything, the death penalty feels hollow.

 

That's when survival starts feeling like a reward, when you have SO much to loose.

this change of "rules" - like coh3   total war,dow2 retribution  etc. Just more advanced change of difficulty 

But this is not endgame - terraria have rly good endgame, some ff. 

For me 7dtd went from horror into  RUST or ARK

[meganoth]

18 hours ago, Matt115 said:

this change of "rules" - like coh3   total war,dow2 retribution  etc. Just more advanced change of difficulty 

But this is not endgame - terraria have rly good endgame, some ff. 

For me 7dtd went from horror into  RUST or ARK

 

Always trying to change the topic. But I will not bite 😉

 

I usually have three endgame activities: Branch out into far away towns, collect all the books and build stuff that may or may not be usefull but has some interesting property. For exampke a long time ago I built a ramp to find out the max height for jumping with a minibike without getting damage (or getting killed? Can't remember).

[BFT2020]

My endgame goal has always been watch the sun set and die of old age in this game.  Unfortunately, the zombies never allow me to reach my end goals  😉

 

[Matt115]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Always trying to change the topic. But I will not bite 😉

 

I usually have three endgame activities: Branch out into far away towns, collect all the books and build stuff that may or may not be usefull but has some interesting property. For exampke a long time ago I built a ramp to find out the max height for jumping with a minibike without getting damage (or getting killed? Can't remember).

hah i think about endgame activities as "things to do  unlocked after : killed a boss, unlocked zone, finded unique item etc". Collect books you can do in every moment in theory and this is not locked by something- in terraria to you need to kill wall of flesh to unlock hardmode- after that you have new enemies, bosses weapons etc. Ofc 7dtd is not fantasy game as terraria but it can be done ( in theory) something similiar- in every map you can find stadium with gigantic zombie boss- you need to have good weapons a lot of ammo etc. after you kill this boss few thing are going to happen - spawning of new zombie types, sprawning of soldiers ( better version of bandits), you get a chance to find legendary weapon or tool etc

[meganoth]

28 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

hah i think about endgame activities as "things to do  unlocked after : killed a boss, unlocked zone, finded unique item etc". Collect books you can do in every moment in theory and this is not locked by something- in terraria to you need to kill wall of flesh to unlock hardmode- after that you have new enemies, bosses weapons etc. Ofc 7dtd is not fantasy game as terraria but it can be done ( in theory) something similiar- in every map you can find stadium with gigantic zombie boss- you need to have good weapons a lot of ammo etc. after you kill this boss few thing are going to happen - spawning of new zombie types, sprawning of soldiers ( better version of bandits), you get a chance to find legendary weapon or tool etc

 

Well "endgame" is a very hazy concept, everyone has his own definition what that constitutes.

 

The (very small) difference to book collection at the start of the game is that you collect books for the advantages they bring. Collecting books to be complete in everything means looking for all the spear books even though you use no spear and have no points in perception. Some people are even addicted completionists, luckily I'm not.

 

 

 

[Maharin]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

My endgame goal has always been watch the sun set and die of old age in this game.  Unfortunately, the zombies never allow me to reach my end goals  😉

 

 

How many days would you have to live to reach end of life?  Ten years would be roughly 3652 days (if leap years were added in)... would that be enough? 

[BFT2020]

Just now, Maharin said:

 

How many days would you have to live to reach end of life?  Ten years would be roughly 3652 days (if leap years were added in)... would that be enough? 

Depends on my avatar and how old they are  😁

[Maharin]

Ten years in apocalypse time would be... <calculating>... a lot more than 10 years of regular time. 

[Roland]

7 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

watch the sun set and die

 

Even if you set your days to 1 second you might not live long enough to finish playing the game...

 

Of course a comma in the right place changes everything

[Ianua]

I saw a couple of people posting about restoring some POIs with the new blocks.  I stopped restoring buildings because the quests frequently will "reset" the POI and then all my work is for nothing.  Are there some POIs that never become quest locations or has the POI reset been changed?

[warmer]

One thing I really like about some city builders is when they have goals that don't require a specific task, but rather a metric be achieved.

 

ie.

 

Survive 7 days without needing to kill a zombie 

 

That would be an interesting end game achievement of sorts. This means you have crafted a self sustaining base and that in an of itself is my personal "win" goal when I play 7 days to die. If I can survive and get everything I need without leaving my land claim for 7 days, and without killing a single zombie myself, then the game has ceased to be a challenge, and in a certain sense, you have beaten it.

Edited September 25, 2021 by warmer (see edit history)

[Maharin]

4 hours ago, warmer said:

Survive 7 days without needing to kill a zombie

 

That one would be pretty easy, depending on the game stage and blood moon settings.

[Gamida]

5 hours ago, Ianua said:

I saw a couple of people posting about restoring some POIs with the new blocks.  I stopped restoring buildings because the quests frequently will "reset" the POI and then all my work is for nothing.  Are there some POIs that never become quest locations or has the POI reset been changed?

If I recall any poi you put bed in doesn't spawn quests but as for the rest maybe they need to add some sort of block that can be added to poi to stop it. It would be a shame to restore a house and then have a quest revert it.

[Ramethzer0]

On 9/23/2021 at 2:56 PM, Matt115 said:

this change of "rules" - like coh3   total war,dow2 retribution  etc. Just more advanced change of difficulty 

But this is not endgame - terraria have rly good endgame, some ff. 

For me 7dtd went from horror into  RUST or ARK

You come at me like somehow I was arguing what Endgame content was.

Yes, its a change of playstyle, Sherlock.

 

But if you want to argue semantics, let's do that:

 

Rust and ARK both have their nuances, but the Horror Genre that you are propping up also doesn't technically have a defined end point in terms of gameplay.   Without a storyline the goalposts are moved towards something a little more subtle.  Now, Survival Horror as a genre does have a point to it, and it's written on the tin.  Survival.  Survival means you end the game when you want to end the game.  You die.  You come back.  You can choose how to deal or mitigate when you reach that point of liminal space.  If you keep surviving, then you've skipped the notion of accepting death.   Therefore, death IS the endgame.   You get to choose how you meet that point, and what to do when you get there.  At least with ARK there comes a defining point at which you get to decide to ascend or not.

 

I would seriously caution you to not put everything into neat little bite sized boxes.   Nuance is the mother of all precedents.  And Assumption is the mother of all *&%#ups.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

You come at me like somehow I was arguing what Endgame content was.

Yes, its a change of playstyle, Sherlock.

 

But if you want to argue semantics, let's do that:

 

Rust and ARK both have their nuances, but the Horror Genre that you are propping up also doesn't technically have a defined end point in terms of gameplay.   Without a storyline the goalposts are moved towards something a little more subtle.  Now, Survival Horror as a genre does have a point to it, and it's written on the tin.  Survival.  Survival means you end the game when you want to end the game.  You die.  You come back.  You can choose how to deal or mitigate when you reach that point of liminal space.  If you keep surviving, then you've skipped the notion of accepting death.   Therefore, death IS the endgame.   You get to choose how you meet that point, and what to do when you get there.  At least with ARK there comes a defining point at which you get to decide to ascend or not.

 

I would seriously caution you to not put everything into neat little bite sized boxes.   Nuance is the mother of all precedents.  And Assumption is the mother of all *&%#ups.

God no. It doesn't need to have story to have for example bosses - honestly don't starve have only "simple story" that's say as 7dtd- minecraft have dragon as final boss - when you kill him you can get wings. So this is endgame item for example. you can die in anytime so this is not endgame. 

[Ramethzer0]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

God no. It doesn't need to have story to have for example bosses - honestly don't starve have only "simple story" that's say as 7dtd- minecraft have dragon as final boss - when you kill him you can get wings. So this is endgame item for example. you can die in anytime so this is not endgame. 

 

I mean you can keep doubling down but all I see is you missing the forest for the trees based upon a preconceived notion of what you think this game should be, instead of what it actually is.  At some point you're going to have to reconcile the differences instead of leaning into them.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[White-Gandalf]

On 9/19/2021 at 8:47 AM, Gamida said:

Speaking of securing a large area. Do you know or could you find out if putting down player blocks will stop zombies from spawning on them. I have heard sometimes it doesn't work. Would be nice for those areas sligltly larger than your land claim area.

I was thinking along the lines of digging up the ground around the area and replacing it with something like dirt blocks.

 

Since A16 - i believe -, the attribute "CanMobsSpawnOn" is off by default. Thus, all blocks that are player made will not allow any zombies - Bloodmoon as well as random spawns - to spawn on them. Only blocks that are explicitly marked as "CanMobsSpawnOn" will allow those spawns. The player made block has to be the highest in the column from bedrock to ceiling.

 

Those blocks, however, do not suppress spawns in POI's.

 

Thus, you can suppress Bloodmoon hordes as well as all random spawns including screamers by sealing a huge enough area with player made blocks (f.e. woodframes).

 

[White-Gandalf]

On 9/25/2021 at 9:59 PM, warmer said:

Survive 7 days without needing to kill a zombie 

 

That would be an interesting end game achievement of sorts. This means you have crafted a self sustaining base and that in an of itself is my personal "win" goal when I play 7 days to die. If I can survive and get everything I need without leaving my land claim for 7 days, and without killing a single zombie myself, then the game has ceased to be a challenge, and in a certain sense, you have beaten it.

 

Well: that's usually the way i START the game. I never go into POI's as long as i am not strong enough to do so, and i am usually not strong enough until after several weeks. Since i always play permadeath style survival with always running (at least jogging) zombies, death in a POI or in the wilderness is simply no option, while hiding and stealthiness is an absolute must. Self sufficiency is the precursor of adventuring.

 

But to secure the environment of a whole city with a far stretched network of traps or autoturrets is for sure something for end game.

[8_Hussars]

The Fun Pimps have a big problem in that they are tied to the kickstarter campaign and there is no overarching end game to keep players interested.

When I think of it the game transitions a bit like an abridged Maslow's hierarchy of Needs.

Early Game is about survival; establishing physiological security via a food supply and shelter.  With the loot linked to Game Stage TFP try to draw out the early game.  A lot of veteran players find starting over tedious at best.  The "tutorial" definitely should be on a switch or a way to autocomplete  (give me my four skill points and point me to the trader)

Mid game is about increasing safety through collecting of resources, increasing safety (through skills and looting), and supporting and expanding physiological security.  This is the hard core grinding phase.  The only reason we are grinding and mining is to build a bigger base.  Take that part out and all we do is loot and explore and gather enough to repair and maintain.

Late game is about achievement (builds, raids, storage, exploration, etc) and confidence in a players own abilities in the game (loot at night, increase zombie speeds, increase zombie amounts, play harder biomes, etc.) at this point all a player needs is to acquire enough resources to maintain the status quo.

End game (self actualization) is ... missing.  It exists for the content creators through videos and streaming but not for the player base in general.  Thus the appeal of the Darkness Falls overhaul (and others) as it has an actual end point.  Players can beat the game.

There is enough variety in the vanilla game and mods to keep a lot of players cycling through the first three levels including myself.  But there is a class of players that have other (and often better) games to scratch the first three needs individually.  In this case the tower defence, crafting, combat, RPG goals spread the game thin.  Obviously many like the breadth of the game but many also call it out for its thinness.


Random Thoughts

There was another discussion with a proposal to adjust the "quest rewards" to include skill benefits.  Like +1 Parkour for example, or if you already have it some arbitrary buff or maybe you could pick a recipe.  Something not overpowering but could assist in character development.  I would almost create a new skill currency (abilities) and put some QOL abilities as "rewards".  Like "Grandfathers Farm"  you remember your grandfathers farm and can harvest 2 corn (without "living off the land") or "Coffee @%$#" you're sick getting the office coffee order but you can manage to pour hot water over some grounds and can make coffee (without Master Chef perk) or "High School Sports"  Not as good as Al Bundy but you can do the Fossberry flop (+1 extra meter to no fall damage)

I would like to see true bartering introduced with the traders rather than quest/reward loops (and keep some store items (maybe for secret stash).  Want this crucible?  Do me 4X Tier 4 clears.  Want this bike chassis?  I need 4X Blunderbusses and a pistol.  Want this recipe? I need 40 rounds of 9mm.  All balanced of course and using TFP bathroom humour.

Not of that these really addressees the end game but it may add some depth to the journey,

[Slaasher]

On 9/7/2021 at 12:00 AM, Spuder said:

So I've been playing 7DTD since Alpha 11 and is by far my favorite game. I mainly play Co-op with my wife, but also play solo here and there. A problem we've had with A18-A19 is getting board after day 30-40ish

 

For me, at a certain point it's all about building things.  I love renovating buildings and either renovating them or rebuilding them entirely.

One of the reasons that I am 100% in support of this Alpha 20 release. 

MORE building shtuff. It's so much fun.

This is one of buildings that I am renovating right now. I've gone a lot further in it but i cant seem to find the latest pics.

The inside is a total reno job. I am up to floor # 3 now.

In the garage portion of the building (which you cant see) I have built a mine that goes all the way to the earth base. I think I am mining all of my stuff there now.

A TON of materials have gone into this so far

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Slaasher (see edit history)

[meganoth]

On 10/10/2021 at 6:58 AM, 8_Hussars said:

The Fun Pimps have a big problem in that they are tied to the kickstarter campaign and there is no overarching end game to keep players interested.

 

I very much doubt that they see this as a problem since they have "solved" it years ago, just not implemented yet. I have seen actual props of this end game story in vanilla since I have been playing this game. And I think even the kickstarter already talks about the "white river and the duke" story line that will surely end in the demise of one of them at least.

 

On 10/10/2021 at 6:58 AM, 8_Hussars said:

When I think of it the game transitions a bit like an abridged Maslow's hierarchy of Needs.

Early Game is about survival; establishing physiological security via a food supply and shelter.  With the loot linked to Game Stage TFP try to draw out the early game.  A lot of veteran players find starting over tedious at best.  The "tutorial" definitely should be on a switch or a way to autocomplete  (give me my four skill points and point me to the trader)

Mid game is about increasing safety through collecting of resources, increasing safety (through skills and looting), and supporting and expanding physiological security.  This is the hard core grinding phase.  The only reason we are grinding and mining is to build a bigger base.  Take that part out and all we do is loot and explore and gather enough to repair and maintain.

Late game is about achievement (builds, raids, storage, exploration, etc) and confidence in a players own abilities in the game (loot at night, increase zombie speeds, increase zombie amounts, play harder biomes, etc.) at this point all a player needs is to acquire enough resources to maintain the status quo.

End game (self actualization) is ... missing.  It exists for the content creators through videos and streaming but not for the player base in general.  Thus the appeal of the Darkness Falls overhaul (and others) as it has an actual end point.  Players can beat the game.

 

Never heard of this phase being called "self actualization" but I like it.

 

On 10/10/2021 at 6:58 AM, 8_Hussars said:

There is enough variety in the vanilla game and mods to keep a lot of players cycling through the first three levels including myself.  But there is a class of players that have other (and often better) games to scratch the first three needs individually.  In this case the tower defence, crafting, combat, RPG goals spread the game thin.  Obviously many like the breadth of the game but many also call it out for its thinness.


Random Thoughts

There was another discussion with a proposal to adjust the "quest rewards" to include skill benefits.  Like +1 Parkour for example, or if you already have it some arbitrary buff or maybe you could pick a recipe.  Something not overpowering but could assist in character development.  I would almost create a new skill currency (abilities) and put some QOL abilities as "rewards".  Like "Grandfathers Farm"  you remember your grandfathers farm and can harvest 2 corn (without "living off the land") or "Coffee @%$#" you're sick getting the office coffee order but you can manage to pour hot water over some grounds and can make coffee (without Master Chef perk) or "High School Sports"  Not as good as Al Bundy but you can do the Fossberry flop (+1 extra meter to no fall damage)

I would like to see true bartering introduced with the traders rather than quest/reward loops (and keep some store items (maybe for secret stash).  Want this crucible?  Do me 4X Tier 4 clears.  Want this bike chassis?  I need 4X Blunderbusses and a pistol.  Want this recipe? I need 40 rounds of 9mm.  All balanced of course and using TFP bathroom humour.

Not of that these really addressees the end game but it may add some depth to the journey,

 

I like that idea with the barter quest rewards (assuming you meant the trader nerfed in the store and secret stash as compensation)

[Roland]

 

On 10/9/2021 at 9:58 PM, 8_Hussars said:

A lot of veteran players find starting over tedious at best.  The "tutorial" definitely should be on a switch or a way to autocomplete  (give me my four skill points and point me to the trader)

 

True veteran players should just cancel the tutorial quest and forego the 4 points starting from zero and finding the trader compound only if they happen upon it. I always begin this way now and never do the tutorial quest any longer. Simply hit the cancel button and it disappears from your quest list. It has made the beginning of the game much more enjoyable for me. 

 

 

[Laz Man]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:26 AM, Slaasher said:

 

For me, at a certain point it's all about building things.  I love renovating buildings and either renovating them or rebuilding them entirely.

One of the reasons that I am 100% in support of this Alpha 20 release. 

MORE building shtuff. It's so much fun.

This is one of buildings that I am renovating right now. I've gone a lot further in it but i cant seem to find the latest pics.

The inside is a total reno job. I am up to floor # 3 now.

In the garage portion of the building (which you cant see) I have built a mine that goes all the way to the earth base. I think I am mining all of my stuff there now.

A TON of materials have gone into this so far

 

 

Nice job.  Is that the tall remnant building that is destroyed diagonally?  If you haven't checked out the level design dev stream (#3?), I show cased the face lift I did on it using the new a20 shapes. 😄