What are everyone’s thought on bleeding wounds?

[ShellHead]

I know i keep doing these but I can’t play the game just yet and these are things that jump out at me, hope i’m not annoying you all. Disclaimer over, now to the meat: what do you think about bleeding wounds? Both from the deep cuts AGI perk and the serrated blade and barbed wire club head mods. As far as i know the number is 0.9 DPS per stack (max 1 without the perk, 7 with) for 20 seconds, reapplying on further hits. Is this actually useful? The perk is obviously useful given its other effects but the bleed by itself seems a touch underwhelming especially when from the weapon mods but i can’t test it to see.

[7daysexpert]

43 minutes ago, ShellHead said:

I know i keep doing these but I can’t play the game just yet and these are things that jump out at me, hope i’m not annoying you all. Disclaimer over, now to the meat: what do you think about bleeding wounds? Both from the deep cuts AGI perk and the serrated blade and barbed wire club head mods. As far as i know the number is 0.9 DPS per stack (max 1 without the perk, 7 with) for 20 seconds, reapplying on further hits. Is this actually useful? The perk is obviously useful given its other effects but the bleed by itself seems a touch underwhelming especially when from the weapon mods but i can’t test it to see.

from a pesonal stand point and logical stand point bleeding wounds should only wok on other players it shouldnt work on zombies at all as they are already dead so they cant technically bleed

[ShellHead]

31 minutes ago, 7daysexpert said:

from a pesonal stand point and logical stand point bleeding wounds should only wok on other players it shouldnt work on zombies at all as they are already dead so they cant technically bleed

You could play it off as causing lacerations that tear when the zombies move, resulting in more tissue damage given that they’re already sloughing off flesh pretty badly.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, ShellHead said:

Is this actually useful?

It can be useful if you use it properly. I know a Twitch streamer who usually plays on Insane difficulty with nightmare speed and permadeath. His favourite tactic in the early game is to run towards a zombie, stab him 2-3 times with the bone knife or hunting knife and then run away. The inflicted wounds stack up and the zombie bleeds out.

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s pretty nice on higher difficulties in early game and even later on with a machete. I usually put a point in blade wepaons right at start. If you kite them good it can even be usefull for larger groups.

[Gazz]

On the higher levels of the blade perk you also get to cause AOE bleeding.

[meganoth]

On 5/8/2021 at 6:38 AM, 7daysexpert said:

from a pesonal stand point and logical stand point bleeding wounds should only wok on other players it shouldnt work on zombies at all as they are already dead so they cant technically bleed

 

Technically and logically they are not at all dead as they are still moving around and reacting to the world. Technically and logically they can't exist so you don't even need weapons and armor in this game. Just try it, those zombies must be illusions 😉. Maybe your character in the game ate some halluzinatory drug and has a fever dream now 😁

 

Unless you present me with a convincing theory of what exactly they are and how their muscles work without blood etc. (which I'm pretty sure you can't) anything is possible. Your theory and any theory ever posted on these forums is pure nonsense deduced from nonsense facts.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Boidster]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:38 PM, 7daysexpert said:

from a pesonal stand point and logical stand point bleeding wounds should only wok on other players it shouldnt work on zombies at all as they are already dead so they cant technically bleed

 

"Personal"? I'm keen to hear what you keep in your basement. 😲 If you could speak clearly into this ordinary ball-point pen, please...

 

Whatever the mythos of 7D2D - pick your favorite - when you headshot any of the Zs, you get a fountain of "blood" and giblets. The game is internally consistent in this regard. Whatever the cause, there is blood or blood-like fluid under pressure in their bodies. Bleeding wounds make perfect sense given how the game has shown its zombies' physiology to work. The game is unreality so we (or the devs if/when they choose to) are free to make up an explanation for why it is the way it is.

 

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

Unless you present me with a convincing theory of what exactly they are and how their muscles work without blood etc. (which I'm pretty sure you can't) anything is possible.

 

Well, I'm on Team Blood, but if we want to explore "how would muscles contract without blood" we could go with: "The zombie parasite infests the body with a dense network of hollow fibrous tendrils and slowly harvests O2 from adipose and dermal fat (C18H34O2 and similar) as well as non-sensory, non-motile areas of the brain. The O2 is delivered to muscles and to the still-used areas of the brain to keep them "alive". Muscle contraction is directed from the brain using the existing nervous system. The gradual consumption of tissue to produce oxygen results in deterioration of body structures, usually beginning with the skin. When not active, the parasite can disable nearly all 'processing' and shut the host body down, as though in a sleep."

 

You're right, of course - anything is possible.

[Skullfracture]

My biggest gripe with bleeding (and to a lesser extent the burning shaft fire) is you frequently do not get XP for kills if the zombie dies from the DoT tick. Bugs the hell out of me.

 

It's quite handy against tougher z's though, even early on.

[Adam the Waster]

im good in the hood with it

[Kyonshi]

12 hours ago, Skullfracture said:

My biggest gripe with bleeding (and to a lesser extent the burning shaft fire) is you frequently do not get XP for kills if the zombie dies from the DoT tick. Bugs the hell out of me.

 

It's quite handy against tougher z's though, even early on.

Yeah, that's also what grinds my gear. I stopped using katanas (at least until this gets fixed) because of that. But they always give me XP when dying from fire though.

 

And another thing that grinds that same gear : people who say "well zombies arent real so they can bleed and anything can happen with them!" and what not.

 

You dont say?? They are not real?! Of course they're not... 🙄 But they are in 7DtD and they're considered people who died and for some reason, woke up from their dead state and wander around to kill and eat people – the common walking dead thrope, you know. So they're not alive like us and therefore dont regenerate. And regeneration process needs blood flow and they dont have this either. So they cant bleed out, even less those who died from bleeding out while they were still human. And before someone says so, no, the creatures from 28 Days Later are not zombies, they're still alive and can bleed out and die.

 

Now the Pimps make them die from bleeding out. Alright, that's how they want it, ill roll with it. But im curious to know how many of us thought at first that the bleeding DoT was only affecting other human players only and didnt bother using blades against zombies because it didnt make sense for them to die from bleeding out? 😉 I know i didnt used those for a looong time until i was bored and started using a katana, just to be surprised that they were strangely affected by that.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Kyonshi (see edit history)

[meganoth]

17 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

Yeah, that's also what grinds my gear. I stopped using katanas (at least until this gets fixed) because of that. But they always give me XP when dying from fire though.

 

And another thing that grinds that same gear : people who say "well zombies arent real so they can bleed and anything can happen with them!" and what not.

 

You dont say?? They are not real?! Of course they're not... 🙄 But they are in 7DtD and they're considered people who died and for some reason, woke up from their dead state and wander around to kill and eat people – the common walking dead thrope, you know. So they're not alive like us and therefore dont regenerate. And regeneration process needs blood flow and they dont have this either. So they cant bleed out, even less those who died from bleeding out while they were still human. And before someone says so, no, the creatures from 28 Weeks Later are not zombies, they're still alive and can bleed out and die.

 

Now the Pimps make them die from bleeding out. Alright, that's how they want it, ill roll with it. But im curious to know how many of us thought at first that the bleeding DoT was only affecting other human players only and didnt bother using blades against zombies because it didnt make sense for them to die from bleeding out? 😉 I know i didnt used those for a looong time until i was bored and started using a katana, just to be surprised that they were strangely affected by that.

 

Expectations come from lore and other games but no game designer is forced to adhere to them. Romero purists may differ but they have lost the war long ago.

 

Did you expect the zombies to be killed always with one headshot? Were you shocked when they ran? Where is the previous lore for the blood moon and exploding cops ? Why are the innards of an exploded cop red? If the theory doesn't fit the facts you have to change the theory, not the facts.

 

You say they don't regenerate? In 7D2D that may be true for their skin, but a lot of them regenerate health quite drastically. How does that fit your theory? The theory where you selected some rule from other movies or games and presented that as fact for this game ("they died and for some reason, woke up").

 

When you say "28 days later" zombies are not zombies to you, then I suspect that neither the 7D2d zombies are really zombies by your definition. Case in point, they bleed 😁

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boidster]

1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

But they are in 7DtD and they're considered people who died and for some reason, woke up from their dead state and wander around to kill and eat people

 

 

I mean, sure, that's a fine thing for you to consider. But what if the zombie parasite simply attacked them and turned them into "zombies" without dying? This killed many people in the process of course - those whose bodies couldn't handle the stress, or killed themselves before they turned. Like that (real world) fungus which invades ant brains and turns them into zombie ants (the inspiration for my 'parasite' idea).

 

2 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

And regeneration process needs blood flow and they dont have this either.

 

 

Until/unless TFP gives us the canonical explanation, any theory is equally valid.

[Kyonshi]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Expectations come from lore and other games but no game designer is forced to adhere to them. Romero purists may differ but they have lost the war long ago.

 

Did you expect the zombies to be killed always with one headshot? Were you shocked when they ran? Where is the previous lore for the blood moon and exploding cops ? Why are the innards of an exploded cop red? If the theory doesn't fit the facts you have to change the theory, not the facts.

 

You say they don't regenerate? In 7D2D that may be true for their skin, but a lot of them regenerate health quite drastically. How does that fit your theory? The theory where you selected some rule from other movies or games and presented that as fact for this game ("they died and for some reason, woke up").

 

When you say "28 days later" zombies are not zombies to you, then I suspect that neither the 7D2d zombies are really zombies by your definition. Case in point, they bleed 😁

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno if you're trolling me, but ill assume you're not and wanna have a discussion about it

 

Again, 28 Days Later infected people are not zombies and this isnt from me ; they visibly dont die and this is easily noticeable. They just get infected, throw up blood and get uber-@%$#ed off. They dont raise from a dead state once killed. That's the setting that's been established. I guess that should be clear by now.

 

This isnt about being a Romero purist, im not fighting a "war". In fact, 7DtD zombies drifts considerably from the references Romero established. There's some of them who run like they're on steroids, notably Ferals and Blood Moon zombies. Romero's ones just shamble. They also dont die from a single headshot, like you said. But i assume its a game design decision to give them more fortitude because otherwise, as soon as you'd get a simple Pistol, all you'd have to do is to shoot a single bullet to any of them since the Beretta has enough firepower to do so. The game would get pretty boring. Same thing with regenerative zombies (the radioactive type); game design decision and not a Romero element (as far as i know).

 

We are dealing with zombies in this game and whether the devs take some liberties, or not, here and there, there's a base reference which upon the creatures and based and... its zombies. Not ghosts, not werewolves, not leprechauns. I mean you have to gravitate close to the references at least. If im playing Phasmophobia, im expecting to hunt ghosts that behave like ghosts and if the devs tell me that i have to shoot them in the head to neutralize them, or stab them in the heart with a stake, does that make sense? No. Ill probably still play, but we all know its senseless.

 

That's all im saying about zombies dying out of excessive blood loss, because it doesnt make sense, if we're being purely technical. Twist and shift it any way you want, it doesnt : they dont have working cardiac system, their blood is useless to them. Now i dont have a problem with that, as i mentioned earlier. The only thing that prevents me from using Blades is the XP bug, not the fact that zombies bleed out. Im not outraged, i wont harass the Pimps to change this, im not at war. They wanna take this liberty, ill roll with it. The only thing that bugs me is people who come in and say anything can be done because zombies are fictional... I guess we can have satanical unicorns doing ballet with miniguns during the Blood Moon then? Doesnt matter, right? Its not "real"! 😄

[hiemfire]

22 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

I dunno if you're trolling me, but ill assume you're not and wanna have a discussion about it

 

Again, 28 Days Later infected people are not zombies and this isnt from me ; they visibly dont die and this is easily noticeable. They just get infected, throw up blood and get uber-@%$#ed off. They dont raise from a dead state once killed. That's the setting that's been established. I guess that should be clear by now.

 

This isnt about being a Romero purist, im not fighting a "war". In fact, 7DtD zombies drifts considerably from the references Romero established. There's some of them who run like they're on steroids, notably Ferals and Blood Moon zombies. Romero's ones just shamble. They also dont die from a single headshot, like you said. But i assume its a game design decision to give them more fortitude because otherwise, as soon as you'd get a simple Pistol, all you'd have to do is to shoot a single bullet to any of them since the Beretta has enough firepower to do so. The game would get pretty boring. Same thing with regenerative zombies (the radioactive type); game design decision and not a Romero element (as far as i know).

 

We are dealing with zombies in this game and whether the devs take some liberties, or not, here and there, there's a base reference which upon the creatures and based and... its zombies. Not ghosts, not werewolves, not leprechauns. I mean you have to gravitate close to the references at least. If im playing Phasmophobia, im expecting to hunt ghosts that behave like ghosts and if the devs tell me that i have to shoot them in the head to neutralize them, or stab them in the heart with a stake, does that make sense? No. Ill probably still play, but we all know its senseless.

 

That's all im saying about zombies dying out of excessive blood loss, because it doesnt make sense, if we're being purely technical. Twist and shift it any way you want, it doesnt : they dont have working cardiac system, their blood is useless to them. Now i dont have a problem with that, as i mentioned earlier. The only thing that prevents me from using Blades is the XP bug, not the fact that zombies bleed out. Im not outraged, i wont harass the Pimps to change this, im not at war. They wanna take this liberty, ill roll with it. The only thing that bugs me is people who come in and say anything can be done because zombies are fictional... I guess we can have satanical unicorns doing ballet with miniguns during the Blood Moon then? Doesnt matter, right? Its not "real"! 😄

 

Geesh. Don't go looking up Voodoo zombies, where the entire zombie concept originates from, then. It'll rek your "zombies are only zombies if they rise from the dead" sacred cow.

[Roland]

The word "zombie" is more of a catch-all term rather than a technical term. We've had this discussion many times over the years and sometimes it is about what the creatures in 7 Days to Die should or should not be able to do or what properties they should or should not have given that that they are called "zombies", and sometimes it is about what the creatures in 7 Days to Die should be called (other than zombies) given their apparent characteristics. It all boils down to people erroneously thinking that "zombie" is a technical term and means something specific when,  in fact, it is a general and abstract term that captures a wide range of characteristics. People who want to think narrowly about the definition of "zombie" aren't going to like that but they do have to deal with it because the developers of this game have a very liberal and loose view and definitely use the term "zombie" as a catch-all and will continue to do so no matter what abilities and characteristics they decide to give them.

 

So just put away your comic book/ movie/ and literary references and come up with your own sci-fi/fantasy explanations for how things work for these THINGS that everyone refers to as zombies.

[uncle.heavy]

Had noone in these discussions ever thought to approach the ISO to make good for their obvious negligence in this matter?

 

Apart from that; I never played with deep cuts but would like to thank for the inspiration. Will very much give it a try.

[JCrook1028]

5 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

they're considered people who died and for some reason, woke up from their dead state and wander around to kill and eat people

Says you...............show me where TFP has said that.

[Kyonshi]

Jesus @%$#ing christ, lmao! There's no way i can just bring another point of view without having people get so concerned like i destroyed their dreams? 

 

Alright i'll see myself out, sorry to have broken your immesive processes. Its ok, its ok, 7DtD zombies ARE NOT zombies! Ill never do it again, promise! 🙏🤣

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

There's no way i can just bring another point of view without having people get so concerned like i destroyed their dreams? 

Apparently there's no way you can carry on a calm discussion with people who don't agree with your viewpoint. Just because we post replies that aren't in agreement with you doesn't mean our dreams are destroyed by your opinion or that you need to show yourself out or abandon your opinion just to placate some perceived mob of emotionally fragile uberfans.

 

I'm not in crisis thanks to your opinion. I just don't agree with it. Since I'm A-OKAY with bleeding zombies as well, life is good. 🙂 

[meganoth]

21 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

I dunno if you're trolling me, but ill assume you're not and wanna have a discussion about it

 

Not trolling, but I can get on peoples nerves 😉

 

Quote

Again, 28 Days Later infected people are not zombies and this isnt from me ; they visibly dont die and this is easily noticeable. They just get infected, throw up blood and get uber-@%$#ed off. They dont raise from a dead state once killed. That's the setting that's been established. I guess that should be clear by now.

 

My point was that, whether they are dead or infected or whatever else, I call them zombies and I call "28 days later" a zombie movie. Many other people do too.

 

It is fine if you don't want to call them zombies, but then you probably should not view the things running around in 7D2D as zombies. Because that makes you infer "facts" that don't seem to be true in the game.

 

 

Quote

This isnt about being a Romero purist, im not fighting a "war".

 

No, didn't think so. I was just saying that as a historical context. At least since the remake "Day of the Dawn" movie came out the name "zombie" was used more and more loosely for everything that had enough in common with a zombie to be called a zombie by the general public.

 

EDIT: Ooops, it was "Dawn of the Dead", not "Day of the Dawn".

 

Quote

 

In fact, 7DtD zombies drifts considerably from the references Romero established. There's some of them who run like they're on steroids, notably Ferals and Blood Moon zombies. Romero's ones just shamble. They also dont die from a single headshot, like you said. But i assume its a game design decision to give them more fortitude because otherwise, as soon as you'd get a simple Pistol, all you'd have to do is to shoot a single bullet to any of them since the Beretta has enough firepower to do so. The game would get pretty boring. Same thing with regenerative zombies (the radioactive type); game design decision and not a Romero element (as far as i know).

 

We are dealing with zombies in this game and whether the devs take some liberties, or not, here and there, there's a base reference which upon the creatures and based and... its zombies. Not ghosts, not werewolves, not leprechauns. I mean you have to gravitate close to the references at least. If im playing Phasmophobia, im expecting to hunt ghosts that behave like ghosts and if the devs tell me that i have to shoot them in the head to neutralize them, or stab them in the heart with a stake, does that make sense? No. Ill probably still play, but we all know its senseless.

 

That's all im saying about zombies dying out of excessive blood loss, because it doesnt make sense, if we're being purely technical. Twist and shift it any way you want, it doesnt : they dont have working cardiac system, their blood is useless to them. Now i dont have a problem with that, as i mentioned earlier. The only thing that prevents me from using Blades is the XP bug, not the fact that zombies bleed out. Im not outraged, i wont harass the Pimps to change this, im not at war. They wanna take this liberty, ill roll with it. The only thing that bugs me is people who come in and say anything can be done because zombies are fictional... I guess we can have satanical unicorns doing ballet with miniguns during the Blood Moon then? Doesnt matter, right? Its not "real"! 😄

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Maharin]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:54 PM, ShellHead said:

What are everyone’s thought on bleeding wounds?

 

Like giving.  Hate receiving.