The unfixable bridge over Deadman's Gulch

[Murkules]

Does anyone know why repairing the bridge over Deadman's Gulch on Navesgane is impossible? It's as if it has been scripted to collapse unless you support it with pillars, I have tried all the materials I can think of but blocks always collapse at the exact same point, regardless of their horizontal strength and mass values. I can literally build the same bridge anywhere else and it will work, kinda gamebreaking when there are deep physics in game that stop existing seemingly for no reason other than to annoy the player. 

[Maharin]

There are a lot of POIs that have a similar issue.  The big book store POI, for instance, has part of its roof start collapsing by just removing blocks two stories down from the roof.  I'd imagine this is an unintended consequence of some of the SI code (and the code that drives how things collapse once SI fails).

[Murkules]

Thanks for the helpful response! As someone a bit OCD it's been driving me nuts, however knowing that the issue exists elsewhere and is not simply a design choice is strangely comforting? Seeing how far the devs have brought the game already, I have no doubt that they will roll out all of the kinks eventually...

[Mastermind]

13 hours ago, Maharin said:

The big book store POI, for instance, has part of its roof start collapsing by just removing blocks two stories down from the roof.

I always thought it was hilarious that the whole structural integrity of the roof relied on a cardboard box on a shelf.  

[Kyonshi]

On 3/16/2021 at 11:47 PM, Mastermind said:

I always thought it was hilarious that the whole structural integrity of the roof relied on a cardboard box on a shelf.  

Dude, the simple act of placing and removing my torch off the base of the antenna of the airport control tower made the upper part of said antenna to collapse 🤷🏻‍♂️ I know this is a user-made POI from the CompoPack, but still, those are build with the same parameters that the Pimps use and its kinda ridiculous that a mere torch can make buildings crumble 😆

[Liesel Weppen]

On 3/17/2021 at 4:47 AM, Mastermind said:

I always thought it was hilarious that the whole structural integrity of the roof relied on a cardboard box on a shelf.  

SI doesn't necessarily rely on one specific block. It's just the case that SI is not recalculated on every "static" building every frame. It may even have invalid SI, it just doesn't collapse yet, because SI is not recalculated. But removing (or even adding) any block causes SI to recalculate and then it probably turns out that the structure is not supported.

 

Also common problem with custom POIs if the designer built it without SI active and then didn't reenable SI before publishing his POI.

[warmer]

Have you upgraded/repair all of the blocks on the bridge before you build, and are you going to meet in the middle vs all the way from one side to the next?

 

You can get away with much bigger spans if you meet in the middle vs going all the way from one side.

[7daysexpert]

On 3/16/2021 at 7:48 AM, Maharin said:

There are a lot of POIs that have a similar issue.  The big book store POI, for instance, has part of its roof start collapsing by just removing blocks two stories down from the roof.  I'd imagine this is an unintended consequence of some of the SI code (and the code that drives how things collapse once SI fails).

its a good thing us mole people dont need bridges

[Ringkeeper]

12 hours ago, warmer said:

Have you upgraded/repair all of the blocks on the bridge before you build, and are you going to meet in the middle vs all the way from one side to the next?

 

You can get away with much bigger spans if you meet in the middle vs going all the way from one side.

 

didn't play Navz for long time... but if i remember correct, even with Metal Trussing it is exactly 1 block too much from both sides. The middle block is the 16th block from each side. And no matter what you do, on 16 blocks it collapses. Only thing you can do is build a pillar up in the middle (which looks meh) .

[Roland]

4 hours ago, Ringkeeper said:

Only thing you can do is build a pillar up in the middle (which looks meh) .

 

No..you could ALSO build 2-3 pillars up spaced apart as bridge supports much like rl bridges have and that can look much better than meh. 

 

If you want to build structures that have no need of support there is always Minecraft.

[BFT2020]

I just assume that none of you are licensed civil engineers so that is why your structures are collapsing  😉

 

When something of mine collapses, that just reminds me why I became a mechanical engineer  😉

 

[Murkules]

I know you can just build pillars as supports but the bridge clearly didn't have them pre-zombie apocalypse, don't see why that should be any different considering we have access to all the same blocks/materials they did?

Plus pillars are not a great solution seeing as any zombies that fall down will often simply attack the base of the pillars to get to you as they won't have a valid path. 

 

The fact that 7 Days to Die requires you to think about support/structural integrity is actually one of the main reasons why I really enjoy building structures (particularly big/difficult builds) in this game, I learn a bit about the physics of the game whilst I am doing so and am then able to apply that to my base and defenses. Minecraft's unrealistic building mechanics are exactly why I gave up playing it almost a decade ago and moved on to exciting early access titles like 7 Days which try to push these popular mechanics further. 

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Murkules said:

I know you can just build pillars as supports but the bridge clearly didn't have them pre-zombie apocalypse, don't see why that should be any different considering we have access to all the same blocks/materials they did?

 

That's a nice backstory you're adding but no....the bridge never existed pre-zombie apocalypse. The developers did not build the bridge finished and then blow it up in the middle. It was constructed as it is now--- a partial bridge with a bit on each side. So there was never ever a full unsupported bridge built there using the same blocks/materials they did.

 

2 hours ago, Murkules said:

Plus pillars are not a great solution seeing as any zombies that fall down will often simply attack the base of the pillars to get to you as they won't have a valid path.

 

They are if you give the zombies a valid path...

[Maharin]

Zombies are poor bridge builders.

[Murkules]

19 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

That's a nice backstory you're adding but no....the bridge never existed pre-zombie apocalypse. The developers did not build the bridge finished and then blow it up in the middle. It was constructed as it is now--- a partial bridge with a bit on each side. So there was never ever a full unsupported bridge built there using the same blocks/materials they did.

 

I know that the devs did not build it whole and then destroy the middle, but the fact that it exists in a broken state implies that it was once whole; much like any of the buildings in the game. Post-apocalyptic means that there must have been a time before the apocalypse, or it wouldn't be 'post', i.e that the bridge must have existed complete at some point in time, in that sense it is completely irrelevant whether the devs created it whole or not; in their vision of what came before the events of the game, it would have existed complete and therefore should be able to be recreated.

 

Tbh I don't see why you have tried to patronise me twice for asking a valid question to the building mechanics of the game, I thought moderators are supposed to be helpful to their community, not try to drive them away to other games like when you told me in your previous post to go play Minecraft instead. 

[Roland]

First of all, I never told you to go play Minecraft instead. I wasn't even talking to you in that post and what I said was that if people don't want to build unsupported bridges there is always Minecraft. That is not the same thing as telling you to just leave and go play Minecraft instead of playing this game. You supplied all of that aggression yourself and then misdirected it at yourself when I was clearly talking to RIngkeeper.

 

Secondly, I like to deal in reality. It would be nice if Deadman Gulch was just a few blocks narrower or if the SI just extended a few blocks longer but they don't. I wasn't trying to be patronizing. I was being pragmatic. Build supports for the bridge and provide a way for the zeds to ascend that you can control. That is actually the most helpful suggestion made in this entire thread. Everything else has been pipe dreams about how awesome if SI might work differently but....it doesn't. Wondering about how the bridge might have extended without supports in a setting that never existed for the game is also unhelpful for the here and now. I'm sorry you don't like my actual help  but if you are looking for actual solutions for bridging the gap of Deadman's Gulch....listen.

 

So please stay and build the bridge. Play Minecraft too if you like. The two games aren't mutually exclusive. And don't look for ways to take offense especially when comments aren't even directed at you.

[theFlu]

14 hours ago, Ringkeeper said:

The middle block is the 16th block from each side. And no matter what you do, on 16 blocks it collapses.

If the mid really is the only block that will collapse, you can quite likely hide an extra support at either end by adding metal sheet blocks (or any plate blocks) to the first "supported" position. I can't remember the structure at the ends, but at worst it'll be some trussings or other non-cube shapes, which makes the addition visible. Using some imagination, even that should be doable without looking terrible.

[7daysexpert]

12 hours ago, Roland said:

 

No..you could ALSO build 2-3 pillars up spaced apart as bridge supports much like rl bridges have and that can look much better than meh. 

 

If you want to build structures that have no need of support there is always Minecraft.

hey minecraft gives us freedom of creativity without consequences 😛

[Ringkeeper]

i really should start a Nav game again to see the bridge.... just doing everything from my head, 20 alphas back, is not helping :D

 

Another idea... build on each side a wider canyon wall. Pretending it existed before, cobblestone or flagstone blocks. That way the support should reach far enough out. Sure, would take way longer to build, but after day 100 or so there is anyway nothing left to do^^

[Urban Blackbear]

If a midstream pier seems like too much trouble the other thing I'd suggest is a pier on either side and running two steel I-Beams across and building the bridge deck that way. There simply has to be something to support the deck across that large of a span. the other suggestion is tear down the original structure entirely and start from scratch. I've never repaired a single bridge in RL, even though it's what I get paid to do.  I've always built new ones.

[doughphunghus]

If you can’t fill in the gap, make a ramp

And jump over the gap!  Bridge repair: complete.

[JCrook1028]

iirc it uses a dev block with more holding power. Forget the name tho, something like bridge steel?

[Ramethzer0]

I think Neebs has read this thread.  lol 

 

In the past, I've tried to fix it with disastrous results.   I simply gave up out of material hunger.  It's just not worth the time and energy to me anymore.

I also mused that perhaps the devs at the time had a similar issue, and then once it finally settled into its final form the devs were like.. "okay this sucks,

and i don't like it, but I'm on a deadline and it's not like this isn't within genre!"  lol

[Roland]

41 minutes ago, Ramethzer0 said:

I think Neebs has read this thread.  lol 

 

In the past, I've tried to fix it with disastrous results.   I simply gave up out of material hunger.  It's just not worth the time and energy to me anymore.

I also mused that perhaps the devs at the time had a similar issue, and then once it finally settled into its final form the devs were like.. "okay this sucks,

and i don't like it, but I'm on a deadline and it's not like this isn't within genre!"  lol

The devs could have sculpted that part of the gulch to be narrower by four blocks if they ran into a similar issue while "trying" to span the bridge. It was never designed as a full bridge and then scaled back as a partial bridge because it couldn't be done and they had no idea what to do.  It was created as it is right now from the concept drawings before it was even put into the game and I doubt one thought went into whether players would be able to repair it fully without a support column. In the designer's mind the game is not a renovate and restore game-- even though it is fun to renovate and restore. It is definitely one of those things that players want proven by years and years of asking for clean windows and pristine paint but it is also proof that the devs aren't interested in developing that possibility in the game.

[Axonius]

On 3/16/2021 at 11:47 PM, Mastermind said:

I always thought it was hilarious that the whole structural integrity of the roof relied on a cardboard box on a shelf.  

 

Here's something funnier...Had a bad run in with some POI zombies that got me down to single digit health. I survived though due to my quick thinking and skillz.  I then went over to a shower curtain to obtain some cloth and died instantly after striking the lower half of the shower curtain first.