Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[stallionsden]

8 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

OR, just a thought here, but TFP could add a "trap ladder". Similarly to the floor, it breaks and causes the player to fall. There would have to be some mechanic to avoid the player simply catching on the ladder below it, but if it does then one could replace a few pieces of ladder at the top of the building...

 

Yep lots a ways lol but yeh obviously their way of playing. Pretty boring for others tho. 

 

But can have lots of fun on them as well 

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

But guns models and some zombie  looks just bad.

RLY they want to replace marksman rifle with lever rifle? WTF what's go wrong . Who the hell was thinking it is good idea?

I like all the new models presented.

 

I don't claim to have an understanding on their thought process, but for me that was a good change.  Their really wasn't much of a different between the the T2/T3 rifles as there was between the T1/T2 rifles.  Plus, I have always like lever action guns.

 

Though I tend to actually play with the changes first before I make any negative opinions on something.  Just taking one thing out of all the components of a system (or a game in this case) doesn't really give you a feel if they are good or not.

[dcsobral]

32 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Yes. The total block number is close to 1200. I was talking about when you use an individual material, like wood, you get to choose from a menu of 240 shapes (edit: Erm... it says 270 on the dev stream screenshot so I might be wrong) , same with stone, concrete and steel. Before it was like 40 and sometimes even less, and completely random and unordered shapes.

Check the image I posted with the shapes POI. That has WAY more than 240 shapes -- I counted 25 columns (might be off a bit) and 20 rows before things got so small I couldn't tell rows apart anymore. And Lathan said "there's twelve hundred shapes here" about that POI. So it's not 240 * 5 materials, it's 1200, all available in 5 materials.

 

Edit: I just checked that image again. It says 270, but note that there is a category selected on the side.

 

Post with image: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=442771

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by dcsobral (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, dcsobral said:

• RWG looks very promising -- we didn't see any worlds, but we saw the tiles and they are awesome. It is supposedly much faster. 
• There's a ton of new content. 145 new POIs and rising. Plus a lot of POIs redone.
• Almost 1200 shapes to choose from when building.
• Zombie models redone.
• Little actual change in gameplay, though. Crouching zombies, feral sense, restore power quest and one way doors are all I recall.
• The drone is coming, but it's essentially a pack mule/medic.
• Harder survival. Less food, less honey, more infection. Loot tables redone, but not trader's. This might well have a bigger impact on gameplay, imho. It might force people into doing things differently.
• Lathan is a spoilsport.
• One can make a pipe gun on day 1 or 2 (allegedly)

All interesting changes (I couldn't watch the entire thing since it started later in the evening for me, I got to the RWG portion but will have to watch the videos in more details later - I was able to skim through them pretty quickly during lunch today).

 

On the fence about the trader's tables not changing, but I haven't played Alpha 20 yet and realized that every little cog matters in a complex system so the other changes might make it moot that they didn't change the trader tables (and even if I wish it was more harder or more diverse, learning to write Xpath means I can make those changes I want).

 

On a more personal note, I think the TFP team has done a great job with all the work they are doing in Alpha 20, even if there are specific things down the road I wish were different.  Everyone is going to have different opinions on every aspect of this game, but you can't deny the labor and love they have put in this project.

[Blake_]

7 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Check the image I posted with the shapes POI. That has WAY more than 240 shapes -- I counted 25 columns (might be off a bit) and 20 rows before things got so small I couldn't tell rows apart anymore. And Lathan said "there's twelve hundred shapes here" about that POI. So it's not 240 * 5 materials, it's 1200, all available in 5 materials.

Yeah... But aren't those furniture and stuff? Well... they ARE technically shapes though. I see now. It's huge then. Cloth tables here we go! 

 

Edit: Erase that. I was right. It's 270 total COUNTING all the left boxes. In the particular selected box of the screenshot there are only 96 shapes. That means that all the other boxes account for the remaining 174 shapes.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[SnowDog1942]

Do buildings in random gen have to be placed on tiles?  Seems like things will be a loss less random looking once u see the tiles over and over.  

[dcsobral]

13 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Yeah... But aren't those furniture and stuff? Well... they ARE technically shapes though. I see now. It's huge then. Cloth tables here we go! 

 

Edit: Erase that. I was right. It's 270 total COUNTING all the left boxes. In the particular selected box of the screenshot there are only 96 shapes. That means that all the other boxes account for the remaining 174 shapes.

There's also an indication that's page one and an active arrow meaning there's at least a second page.

[Blake_]

19 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

There's also an indication that's page one and an active arrow meaning there's at least a second page.

Yes. Still ok. I believe each page switches to the next left box. Even if it's not, page 2 probably has very few shapes.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[crazywildfire]

10 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Yes. Still ok. I believe each page switches to the next left box. Even if it's not, page 2 probably has very few shapes.

 

Why would it do that? If I'm not mistaken mostly everything has another page.

 

Crafting-click next page and more items show. Sometimes a page 3.

 

Trader- click it and it sometimes has another page. Secret stash normally does unless it been cleaned out.

 

Clicking on it doesn't take you to another tab or whatever. It looks like what is in the picture is shapes and those have 270. So probably 2 or 3 pages of shapes. If you click the last one that I imagine is letters and numbers you probably only have one page of those. You click the couch that I would imagine is furniture you get all the shapes of furniture that may or may not be more then 1 page. All these shapes is idk what material they have wood I guess? Is what all you can make with wood.

 

So I might be wrong but I imagine you craft the wood frame or whatever it might be. Using A19 knowledge here. Wood frame you hold R and you click on more shapes. X amount show up. In A20 you make the block and hold R and this manu shows up. To the way it was announced and from what it looks like you have 1200+/- blocks you can make with wood. You make a idk flagstone block and hold R and 1200+/- block menu pops up that you can make with flagstone. Again I'm using A19 flagstone might be listed under a stone block or whatever if they changed it in A20 I have no clue in that much details

[Blake_]

24 minutes ago, crazywildfire said:

 

Why would it do that? If I'm not mistaken mostly everything has another page.

 

Crafting-click next page and more items show. Sometimes a page 3.

 

Trader- click it and it sometimes has another page. Secret stash normally does unless it been cleaned out.

 

Clicking on it doesn't take you to another tab or whatever. It looks like what is in the picture is shapes and those have 270. So probably 2 or 3 pages of shapes. If you click the last one that I imagine is letters and numbers you probably only have one page of those. You click the couch that I would imagine is furniture you get all the shapes of furniture that may or may not be more then 1 page. All these shapes is idk what material they have wood I guess? Is what all you can make with wood.

 

So I might be wrong but I imagine you craft the wood frame or whatever it might be. Using A19 knowledge here. Wood frame you hold R and you click on more shapes. X amount show up. In A20 you make the block and hold R and this manu shows up. To the way it was announced and from what it looks like you have 1200+/- blocks you can make with wood. You make a idk flagstone block and hold R and 1200+/- block menu pops up that you can make with flagstone. Again I'm using A19 flagstone might be listed under a stone block or whatever if they changed it in A20 I have no clue in that much details

Oh, I wish that too. But I think I heard madmole saying that the shape menu had 144 shapes (months ago?, so it makes sense to have 270 now) and they were passing through 1000+ blocks. Also, it says TOTAL. Total is not " partial" as far as I know. Why would it say total if it's only one single box?. Do you really believe there are 2 more pages of 90 blocks behind that screenshot for that same category ? I personally doubt it, but maybe it's just me.

 

1200 shapes is crazy. 270 is already more than 5 times what we had. The second makes sense. The first would make sense if we are talking to the total amount of blocks in the game, which they are. 

 

Still. The editor would have all the 1200 shapes anyway.

 

Edit: 270 shapes for each material is what I believe to be the reality of the situation. Including furniture and various other things.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Blake_ (see edit history)

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

I like all the new models presented.

 

I don't claim to have an understanding on their thought process, but for me that was a good change.  Their really wasn't much of a different between the the T2/T3 rifles as there was between the T1/T2 rifles.  Plus, I have always like lever action guns.

 

Though I tend to actually play with the changes first before I make any negative opinions on something.  Just taking one thing out of all the components of a system (or a game in this case) doesn't really give you a feel if they are good or not.

Honestly you can know if change will looks good or not; when i'm watching on POI's it's looks like :2010 after nuke war but with better stuff.

There is a lof of military stuff - trucks bases sandbags so military guns should be offten- i  don't think USA military usa lever guns. 

I played in WaW and i saw enough to know that multiplayer in cod will sucks - no aliants vs germans, operators "funny" skins.

Here we have change - A11 was deppresing and it have "f.e.a.r in open world" vibes - even light was "colder" now it is too " mad max style.

[dcsobral]

32 minutes ago, crazywildfire said:

 

Why would it do that? If I'm not mistaken mostly everything has another page.

 

Crafting-click next page and more items show. Sometimes a page 3.

 

Trader- click it and it sometimes has another page. Secret stash normally does unless it been cleaned out.

 

Clicking on it doesn't take you to another tab or whatever. It looks like what is in the picture is shapes and those have 270. So probably 2 or 3 pages of shapes. If you click the last one that I imagine is letters and numbers you probably only have one page of those. You click the couch that I would imagine is furniture you get all the shapes of furniture that may or may not be more then 1 page. All these shapes is idk what material they have wood I guess? Is what all you can make with wood.

 

It also works like that with the creative menu. But now that you mentioned material I just recalled: it says the material is Concrete on the right side.

[jeromeN7]

The new A20 forest looks so good.

Edited September 9, 2021 by jeromeN7 (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Drones with teddy bear head looks just bad.

So don't add that mod. It does have a benefit attached to it tho so be willing to sacrifice that.

1 hour ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Do buildings in random gen have to be placed on tiles?  Seems like things will be a loss less random looking once u see the tiles over and over.  

There's 50 odd different tiles that all then fill randomly.

[BFT2020]

10 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Honestly you can know if change will looks good or not; when i'm watching on POI's it's looks like :2010 after nuke war but with better stuff.

There is a lof of military stuff - trucks bases sandbags so military guns should be offten- i  don't think USA military usa lever guns. 

I played in WaW and i saw enough to know that multiplayer in cod will sucks - no aliants vs germans, operators "funny" skins.

Here we have change - A11 was deppresing and it have "f.e.a.r in open world" vibes - even light was "colder" now it is too " mad max style.

Yes, I said I like the new models which you can see via pictures.  However, I am talking about all the changes which includes changes to survivability and feral sense.  Those things you can't really evaluate them until you play them in the game.

 

There are a ton more non-military POIs in the game than military POIs.  So the idea that the US military doesn't use lever action guns, therefor it should not be in the game doesn't make sense in a logical way.  In addition, there may be similarities between modern USA and 72D2, but there are differences so it can easily be a different dimension

 

Mad max style - post apocalyptic world

7D2D - post apocalyptic world

 

🤔

[Roland]

I can't imagine anyone who actually plays A20 complaining about the new junk weapons. It is such a huge improvement over only having the blunderbuss. Honestly, you hardly even notice how long it takes you to move beyond the primitive gamestage any longer because of the variety and excitement of finding different toys to play with. I like the slow early progression but always getting only a blunderbuss made it monotonous. All the new weapons make it awesome and you CAN craft them from day 1 without needing a recipe so crafters can rejoice that they aren't so reliant upon loot and traders.

[jorbascrumps]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

I can't imagine anyone who actually plays A20 complaining about the new junk weapons. It is such a huge improvement over only having the blunderbuss. Honestly, you hardly even notice how long it takes you to move beyond the primitive gamestage any longer because of the variety and excitement of finding different toys to play with. I like the slow early progression but always getting only a blunderbuss made it monotonous. All the new weapons make it awesome and you CAN craft them from day 1 without needing a recipe so crafters can rejoice that they aren't so reliant upon loot and traders.

 

Obviously I haven't played A20 yet (or have I? 🤐) but I'm on board with this line of thinking. Early game is my favourite part and I've always felt that progression wasn't very smooth - this should help.

[Roland]

4 hours ago, hotpoon said:

Feedback on Loot spots
I apologize if this has already been addressed in A20, but just wanted to give some feedback on what it's like playing with selfish, lazy people...which I'm sure will happen to most of us at some point.

 

So, I was playing on a server where these 2 guys built ladders on the sides of all the major buildings and would have a 'daily' of going to each building to collect all the rooftop loot. Of course that spoils it for anyone else who decides "Hey I'm going to do the crackabook tower today, or the shamway factory" or whatever because they fight their way through the whole building only to be faced with empty crates at the top. Bit of anti climax.

 

So I was thinking of two possible ways to prevent this kind of behaviour:

1) Change the main loot location to a random location within the building.

or
2) Make the roof top crates indestructible, and unpickable, and have the key to open them on a random zombie within the building.  

 

Personally, I prefer the second option, but maybe there are other ways to address it.  Anyway, keep up the great work Pimps. Those POIs are so awesomely designed, it's a shame that some people skip them just for the prize at the end.

 

 

 

Something along the lines of what you suggest has been discussed but there are no definite plans. It will depend on time as we are definitely in the twilight of this game's development cycle. I also hope they do something along these lines if possible.

[Blake_]

My favourite part of the stream was when Rick said that a21 was probably the last one and Lathan's face was like... "OooOOook I'm out of here". There's very little chance that a21 gets to be the last alpha because there are 4-5 major systems left. And each alpha gets to see 2-3 tops. 

 

Then again a22 might be called "alphabeta twister 2.0" and they introduce the main campaign and radiated bees.

[Matt115]

10 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Yes, I said I like the new models which you can see via pictures.  However, I am talking about all the changes which includes changes to survivability and feral sense.  Those things you can't really evaluate them until you play them in the game.

 

There are a ton more non-military POIs in the game than military POIs.  So the idea that the US military doesn't use lever action guns, therefor it should not be in the game doesn't make sense in a logical way.  In addition, there may be similarities between modern USA and 72D2, but there are differences so it can easily be a different dimension

 

Mad max style - post apocalyptic world

7D2D - post apocalyptic world

 

🤔

well honestly old 7dtd alpha suits more into " l4d2" or days gone, or walking dead aka post outbreake world

Mad Max - is american nuklear post apo ( is russian nuklear post apo too but this is more like " you sit in ruin in 10 drinking vodka and next day yuri kill themself and we lose our rations because Lev join to cult .

 

Yeah there is more non- military POIs. That's true but i think nobody hold in his home 10 crates with lever action guns but expect that military use truck to tranposrt a lot of guns + on police station should be tons of guns.

Ofc 7dtd can be diffrent dimension but this.... doesn't explain anything because we have M60 and AK47. So even m14 could be better that lever rifle

[jorbascrumps]

3 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

snip

 

You're thinking about this way too hard. Just have fun shooting the pretend zombies in the face with the pretend guns.

[Matt115]

21 minutes ago, Roland said:

I can't imagine anyone who actually plays A20 complaining about the new junk weapons. It is such a huge improvement over only having the blunderbuss. Honestly, you hardly even notice how long it takes you to move beyond the primitive gamestage any longer because of the variety and excitement of finding different toys to play with. I like the slow early progression but always getting only a blunderbuss made it monotonous. All the new weapons make it awesome and you CAN craft them from day 1 without needing a recipe so crafters can rejoice that they aren't so reliant upon loot and traders.

okay maybe i will this tell diffrent: maybe they can be "fun" but they looks terrible- if smg was looking like sten i woudn't complain and springfield as junk rifle. 

Blunderbuss let you keep "true" ammo on birds wolves footplayers 7 day horde-  i use 80% blunnderbuss and hammers-now i have 5 stack of 7,62 on 11 day to shoot zombies with AK47 in 14 day. blunderbuss ammo is cheap so it is worth to use

7 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

You're thinking about this way too hard. Just have fun shooting the pretend zombies in the face with the pretend guns.

Ehh- okay. do you play in Days gone or state of decay? i was thinking it will be going in this way -  if you want know what i mean look's how multi looks in cod WaW and WW2.

Okay- nza 1 and 2 looks like- mix of realstic setting mixed with occult - what if saving private rayan have zombies.  Dead army looks like bad cheap C-movie

[Diragor]

5 hours ago, hotpoon said:

Feedback on Loot spots
I apologize if this has already been addressed in A20, but just wanted to give some feedback on what it's like playing with selfish, lazy people...which I'm sure will happen to most of us at some point.

 

So, I was playing on a server where these 2 guys built ladders on the sides of all the major buildings and would have a 'daily' of going to each building to collect all the rooftop loot. Of course that spoils it for anyone else who decides "Hey I'm going to do the crackabook tower today, or the shamway factory" or whatever because they fight their way through the whole building only to be faced with empty crates at the top. Bit of anti climax.

 

So I was thinking of two possible ways to prevent this kind of behaviour:

1) Change the main loot location to a random location within the building.

or
2) Make the roof top crates indestructible, and unpickable, and have the key to open them on a random zombie within the building.  

 

Personally, I prefer the second option, but maybe there are other ways to address it.  Anyway, keep up the great work Pimps. Those POIs are so awesomely designed, it's a shame that some people skip them just for the prize at the end.

 

 

The Key thing would be the best way to prevent it. You could just let it drop from the last zombie in the POI so you're forced to clear it^^

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Yeah fallen on its side looks great. so big + one of the best POI in my opinion. 

But guns models and some zombie  looks just bad.

RLY they want to replace marksman rifle with lever rifle? WTF what's go wrong . Who the hell was thinking it is good idea?

 

The old marksmanship rifle was redundant to the new HD sniper rifle plus it wasn't up to the current standard.  Not surprised it was replaced.

 

Don't get me wrong, gun variety is a nice quality of life addition but not something I would expect right now.

 

Maybe it could be a nice DLC thing but who knows especially if that legendary gun stuff makes it in eventually.

 

Tons of gun mods out there now so won't be surprised if modders fill in that need for you.

[BFT2020]

33 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

okay maybe i will this tell diffrent: maybe they can be "fun" but they looks terrible- if smg was looking like sten i woudn't complain and springfield as junk rifle. 

Blunderbuss let you keep "true" ammo on birds wolves footplayers 7 day horde-  i use 80% blunnderbuss and hammers-now i have 5 stack of 7,62 on 11 day to shoot zombies with AK47 in 14 day. blunderbuss ammo is cheap so it is worth to use

Ehh- okay. do you play in Days gone or state of decay? i was thinking it will be going in this way -  if you want know what i mean look's how multi looks in cod WaW and WW2.

Okay- nza 1 and 2 looks like- mix of realstic setting mixed with occult - what if saving private rayan have zombies.  Dead army looks like bad cheap C-movie

I think you need to choose your words better (I know you are from Poland, but still).  The new junk / pipe weapons do not look terrible, but are great looking models made by a designer who clearly put a lot of work into them.  Maybe you don't like the style of them or what weapons they were based off of, but there is no reason to say someone's work looks terrible.  Saying that they are terrible (along with any of the new HD zombie models) comes across as attacking someone's artistic skills.  Maybe after the game goes final, a modder will come up with different, replacement models you will like better.