Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Mechanimal said:

Shame cause the launch of A20 was so smooth, aside from maybe the farming change(I can farm just fine, so twas worry over nothing imho).  Nearly everyone, including myself, seemed so excited... for like a week.

Thats because all of the angry ranting users treat the experimental branch as a stable finished product instead of what it actually is. Occasionally we’ve had folks say that TFP should just regularly update the latest_experimental as they develop so that people can witness all the designs steps and changes as they occur. That would be madness. Too many people just don’t have the patience and temperament for changes. 
 

There were so many changes like this one implemented and then reverted or fine tuned over the past year and a half that the QA team tested and dealt with that if some of you had experienced would have resulted in weekly forum blood moons. 
 

when a change happens the QA team does not rant based on the change log and what they suspect will be the result. They test and give evidence in data, screenshots, and video. They don’t immediately revert those changes and play it how they want. They experiment with it and report their results. 
 

I see a lot of hypotheticals based on worry and fear and not a lot of evidence to back up whether your base designs are actually no longer viable. I watched one video that was provided of Kage and it seemed like he coped just fine. 
 

Despite the assumption that TFP changes things due to complaints, I can assure you that they change things due to compelling evidential feedback. 
 

Interestingly, the evidential feedback being given presently is a very compelling argument to nerf bars to match the plates and pole HP. Red’s screenshots show a very clear picture and the several posts stating that bars can be placed back to back for 2x HP just like plates is a powerful  point that I’m sure the devs will consider if bars actually were an oversight. 

[Mechanimal]

3 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

 

I don't think TFP needs to buff XP just so people can power level at the same efficiency they used to. You can always turn up the XP slider if you want to level faster. 

 

 

 

I don't know if you've taken a look at the blocks but they've done a pretty reasonable job separating the full HP blocks from the partial HP blocks (with the exception of the bars I guess).  In terms of being sad that stuff that once worked in an Exp Beta build, no longer work, I would suggest waiting for Stable.  Don't expect any sort of permanence in experimental.

 

Ok you're right, this is experimental. Changes are made and feedback is given. This is my feedback, I think it was fine, good even, as it was. Although I do prefer realism, I also have much higher expectations of it. For example, now a single pole, triple pole, and triple pole with 2x support beams, all have the same HP... which is a NOPE from me. Before I just knew they were all the same. It's a "simple generic" vs "complex generic" change in variables, the latter of which is a never-ending nightmare of inconsistent and irregular variables, and uses, and strong opinions, etc. 

So, my feedback to devs is this:

- As it was, with all blocks having the same HP, it was fine. Really greased creative gears, and was straightforward to deal with.

- Now, with variable HP, I have very high expectations that you get it right, and I doubt you ever will. 

I think this is an ATTEMPT at more realism, and I do not think it will go well. I would love to be proven wrong, if this works out then I will be happy. But I feel obligated to let them know that the way it was on release was especially awesome.

Aside from the random weirdos that for some reason care way too much about how other people play/build, and derive pleasure from their suffering(get help, seriously), I heard not a soul complain about all blocks having equal HP per cubic meter/material.

That being said, if they DO somehow pull this off realistically, I will be happy. But without adding yet another layer of complex structural geometry analysis, and part volume calculation, I don't see how that can ever happen. But again I'd love to be proven wrong, seriously, good luck hashing this one out;)

[Red Eagle LXIX]

18 minutes ago, Roland said:

Interestingly, the evidential feedback being given presently is a very compelling argument to nerf bars to match the plates and pole HP. Red’s screenshots show a very clear picture and the several posts stating that bars can be placed back to back for 2x HP just like plates is a powerful  point that I’m sure the devs will consider if bars actually were an oversight. 

Besides the Bars block and variant another block to consider is the Stair Spiral Pillar and the variants with rails which also retained full HP.

SSP can have all 4 blocks occupy the same physical space because it is corner based (as long as you don't mind z-buffer fighting {ugh}).

[Aldranon]

Solution for the building problem:

 

I forget if I already posted this or was still kicking it around my head.  Here it is:

 

Each and any shape can have a precise and different amount of that material type needed and any amount of HP for it.

The generic cube used for building, just has the raw materials.

Once you try to right click to build a block, the game attempts to subtract the raw materials needed. 

If there's not enough material, some error sound occurs.  Otherwise you build that shape.  

[Roland]

I think the other compelling feedback that I’ve read is the testing that was done by some to see if zombies still did 6x damage vs poles. This was good information to bring up just in case TFP hadn’t considered it. Hopefully, it wasn’t just buried in all of the less helpful emotional posts…

[Mechanimal]

31 minutes ago, Roland said:

Thats because all of the angry ranting users treat the experimental branch as a stable finished product instead of what it actually is. Occasionally we’ve had folks say that TFP should just regularly update the latest_experimental as they develop so that people can witness all the designs steps and changes as they occur. That would be madness. Too many people just don’t have the patience and temperament for changes. 
 

There were so many changes like this one implemented and then reverted or fine tuned over the past year and a half that the QA team tested and dealt with that if some of you had experienced would have resulted in weekly forum blood moons. 
 

when a change happens the QA team does not rant based on the change log and what they suspect will be the result. They test and give evidence in data, screenshots, and video. They don’t immediately revert those changes and play it how they want. They experiment with it and report their results. 
 

I see a lot of hypotheticals based on worry and fear and not a lot of evidence to back up whether your base designs are actually no longer viable. I watched one video that was provided of Kage and it seemed like he coped just fine. 
 

Despite the assumption that TFP changes things due to complaints, I can assure you that they change things due to compelling evidential feedback. 
 

Interestingly, the evidential feedback being given presently is a very compelling argument to nerf bars to match the plates and pole HP. Red’s screenshots show a very clear picture and the several posts stating that bars can be placed back to back for 2x HP just like plates is a powerful  point that I’m sure the devs will consider if bars actually were an oversight. 

I'm not angry, just dissapointed, confused, and worried that it will ever be as good again. That's my honest initial reaction to this change, reporting otherwise would be dishonest of me. I can, and likely will, be charmed into accepting the "more realism" aspect, eventually, hopefully.

Again I am in the "prefers realism" camp, but I have much higher expectations of it. It's just super easy, almost impossible not, to fail. I cannot fathom how this new "shape/mass reflects HP and Structural Integrity" variable can be realistically implemented without entirely new super complex simulation level algorithms taking into account volume and mass distribution and how shapes of blocks effect each other. Talk about taxing your engine, jfc. But I also don't expect the devs to go that far... and THAT is the problem. There will inevitably be pieces that fail and shouldn't, and those that hold up and shouldn't. So now we have to learn nearly 1,400 shapes and their unique properties, when before they were just all the same and all was fine, build, go! Now it's a mess that may never recapture that feeling.

I can see how there are people that want this, and have wanted it before, my being one of them, but I am an actual realist, thus I do not think it is possible with the current engine, tools, and existing hardware. That's why I was happy with the existing compromise, this engine is already a step ahead from a voxel engine like Minecraft in it's implementation of Structural Integrity in the first place, even though it is only on a per block level... is THAT going to change. Is the structural analysis now going to take into account the geometry of each shape? No, would be nice but not going to happen on someone's desktop, this feels like a generic attempt to do that without actually doing it, and I am thus worried about the results.

But yeah, it is experimental, let's continue and see what happens, of course I will play either way, and have faith they'll end up somewhere fun/workable enough. But remaining silent on this would not be genuine of me as a player, and thus not helpful/informal to the devs, so this is my 2 cents.

 

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I'm just not a mindless drone who always needs to agree with devs.

Thats not what I read about you on the Steam forum every second or third day…haha

 

[Roland]

2 minutes ago, Mechanimal said:

But remaining silent on this would be ingenuine of me, so this is my 2 cents.

My response to you was not a censure about your temperament but just a literal answer to your musing about how things were happy and excited for a week and now gloomy and angry.

 

There are plenty of people who dislike the change but are taking it in stride and giving measured responses and they are appreciated. 
 

Im not asking anyone to remain silent. I’m letting people know that if what they really want is for TFP to change this, there is an effective way to give feedback that some are ignoring. 

[BFT2020]

5 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Im not asking anyone to remain silent. 

I am sure people would appreciate you more if they could just see how you been during the farming debate and now the blocks debate

 

https://imgur.com/a/sLWDKc7  😁

[Mechanimal]

I think, if this change continues to mutate(can't see how it won't tbh), the glaringly big problem, in the current iteration, is that -75% HP is not also -75% material cost.

I imagine that is an oversight/balance issue that will get dealt with in some way, hopefully soon, but until then I am not base building. Once that happens I can, and will, deal with reduced HP block builds. 

Is there even an argument that reduced HP blocks should still require the same material cost? Can't imagine there is, but I'm poking for a try.

[Jay_ombie]

Just a shout out, is there something I am missing with regards my AK... takes 7.62mm ammo yet I can not load in AP 7.62mm ammo..

 

 

 

Also any way when placing blocks onto a slope the blocks placed can line up with the elevation ?

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

18 minutes ago, Jay_ombie said:

Just a shout out, is there something I am missing with regards my AK... takes 7.62mm ammo yet I can not load in AP 7.62mm ammo..

 

 

 

Also any way when placing blocks onto a slope the blocks placed can line up with the elevation ?

 

 

Hold r with the weapon equipped to change ammo type. Blocks are placed on top of the 1m square block below. If you place a block on a block that takes up less than a full 1m square the placed block will appear to float. That's just how the game is designed. Blocks cannot occupy  the space of another block.

[Jost Amman]

@joshwa0816 Lol, I don't know why you keep down-voting every single thing I say... did I do something personal to you? 

[Roland]

40 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I am sure people would appreciate you more if they could just see how you been during the farming debate and now the blocks debate

 

https://imgur.com/a/sLWDKc7  😁

lol..

 

wrong and stupid — Farming debate

slimy politician — Blocks debate

 

 

Well,  I WAS wrong about being able to achieve a large scale farm with LOTL 1 given that you wait to start with roughly 10 seeds. 

[Callum123456789]

just wanted to mention whoever made the new music for blood moons they've done an awesome job!

[Jay_ombie]

14 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

 

Hold r with the weapon equipped to change ammo type. Blocks are placed on top of the 1m square block below. If you place a block on a block that takes up less than a full 1m square the placed block will appear to float. That's just how the game is designed. Blocks cannot occupy  the space of another block.

 

Problem I have the AK gun will not equip the ammo type.

[dcsobral]

7 hours ago, Khalagar said:

All this rage over building blocks reminded me of the sheer R A G E people spewed out in A19 when the loot was changed to where you wouldn't find steel tools week one. So many wall of text rants about how they would never play again and how it made it pointless to do PoI before X week because all the loot containers  would have lower tier loot so they had to wait until gamestage X to get anything good, and how it made no sense that a sealed wooden box had a stone axe in it etc etc etc etc

 

And I know people who stopped playing because of that.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

A quick fix might be to just multiply upgrade costs by the HP multiplier.  Thus at least upgrading those blocks would quickly reflect their lowered HP.  It wouldn't help those that build directly to shapes (ex Steel Shapes) though.

[Mr Lucky]

Off topic, but regarding trying to generate a new Random Gen World in A20, I have yet to get a world to generate or load up. Start a new world, tried to generate a Random Gen World, and after I hit Generate World, it starts but after about 3 minutes it stops, console pops down and says "EXC Nullreferenceexception Object reference not set to an instant of an object" and that's that. Everything stops, I have to close the game and been trying since last night. I can only get a new world if I load up one of the PreGen maps we have for A20 to choose from, or Navezgane. How do I fix this? I've deleted save game files, all my old worlds from A19 but still keeps happening. Deleted the mods folder entirely so it wouldn't be a problem. What am I missing? Any ideas or help would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Mahnogard]

1 minute ago, Mr Lucky said:

Off topic, but regarding trying to generate a new Random Gen World in A20, I have yet to get a world to generate or load up. Start a new world, tried to generate a Random Gen World, and after I hit Generate World, it starts but after about 3 minutes it stops, console pops down and says "EXC Nullreferenceexception Object reference not set to an instant of an object" and that's that. Everything stops, I have to close the game and been trying since last night. I can only get a new world if I load up one of the PreGen maps we have for A20 to choose from, or Navezgane. How do I fix this? I've deleted save game files, all my old worlds from A19 but still keeps happening. Deleted the mods folder entirely so it wouldn't be a problem. What am I missing? Any ideas or help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Did you ever do a direct intall of prefabs? (ie, into the Data\Prefabs\ folder instead of a modlet package) I only ask because I inadvertently left some old Compo pak stuff in there when I first updated to A20 and ran into the same problem. 

[Mr Lucky]

Oh @%$#, I may have actually... I had the Compo Pak in my A19 game worlds. I thought I deleted all of that crap... Lemme check

[unholyjoe]

56 minutes ago, Jay_ombie said:

Just a shout out, is there something I am missing with regards my AK... takes 7.62mm ammo yet I can not load in AP 7.62mm ammo..

 

 

 

as i show in my a20b233 build i have all ammo types for the 7.62 and an ak-47 and can load any of them and shoot them.

 

https://youtu.be/QOCkVVuegP4

[Jay_ombie]

8 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

as i show in my a20b233 build i have all ammo types for the 7.62 and an ak-47 and can load any of them and shoot them.

 

https://youtu.be/QOCkVVuegP4

 

Wow - video too, thanks for the demo !

 

What the hell am I doing then, I look into it prob something stupid my end.

 

Thanks again.

[hiemfire]

3 minutes ago, Jay_ombie said:

What the hell am I doing then,

Holding [E] instead of [R] maybe? I know I've done that plenty of times so it isn't something to beat yourself up over.

[Callum123456789]

9 minutes ago, Jay_ombie said:

 

Wow - video too, thanks for the demo !

 

What the hell am I doing then, I look into it prob something stupid my end.

 

Thanks again.

i can definitely see why you might have been confused on that i don't think there's a description on bullets to hold r to load different ammunitions in which that would be a really good idea for newer players so they can click on the description of bullets and let it say this 7.62 ammo all the other stuff then underneath it say hold r to load different ammo types into the respective weapon 

just saying i think its a good idea