Jump to content
Stranded_Napkin

Am I the only one that feels a limit on loot quality?

Recommended Posts

So I have a lot of issues with the game. I am a zombie freak that likes a game that feels like z's in reality. The progression system was perfect back in A15 with LBD. I am willing to mod in specific calibers...the redneck M4 should not use 7.62mm rounds...maybe 300 AAC. The unbalanced demolisher is absurd. I also hate the knee smashing form of digging...or the digging period. It's not so much that they dig, but that the digging entirely makes bunkers a waste of time as the zombies are way too efficient at it. That stuff being less than ideal, I can live with though.

 

I've been having another issue though. I am on day 6 or 7 of my current playthrough and loot is dragging. I've bumped the loot up to level 3 in the skill tree and am still getting base stuff. I just got my first level 1 iron pick after looting 100+ vehicles, hitting 2 traders twice, and opening ~20 working stiff boxes. I've only seen 1 level 1 axe as well. I do not like to mine ore with a stone axe as it is less efficient than literally everything else in the game. It just feels like the loot is stunted. I have found a level 6 wooden club and a level 4 robot sledge, but I can't tell if that is because they are lower tier devices or if I'm just nuts. Every playthrough I've gone through before, I have found at least level 2 sledge hammers, or level 3 wrenches, or even a gun by day 6. Everything beyond stone has dropped ONLY level 1. Either my luck has gone sour or something has been done to slow down the pace of loot progression. Only firearm to drop from loot has been an overabundance of blunderbusses. I do appreciate the attempt at making them less irrelevant, but when every safe has a blunderbuss and no other firearms things are a bit off. Hell, I've only found one set of loot goggles and they were a pitiful +3.

 

Just saying that loot feels a bit off.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to read the patch notes regarding changes to loot. You are in the Tier 0 "stone age" now (or just emerging from it) and as your gamestage increases you will start to find Tier 1 tools and weapons. Gone are the days of lucking into a Q1 steel pick or a Q3 rifle on day 3.

 

Traders have not yet been balanced to match, so you can still buy stuff outside of the progression. For now anyway.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Boidster said:

You might want to read the patch notes regarding changes to loot. You are in the Tier 0 "stone age" now (or just emerging from it) and as your gamestage increases you will start to find Tier 1 tools and weapons. Gone are the days of lucking into a Q1 steel pick or a Q3 rifle on day 3.

 

Traders have not yet been balanced to match, so you can still buy stuff outside of the progression. For now anyway.

You might have noticed that this has become quite reoccurring as people in general dont like the new forced linear loot system. His points are perfectly valid, you can only do 2 things currently in A19:

 

You either dont loot till your gamestage actually raises high enough so this stone age nonsense goes away or you accept that every safe will have the same useless loot so why even loot them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Solomon said:

You might have noticed that this has become quite reoccurring as people in general dont like the new forced linear loot system.

Yes, I might have noticed that. 🙄 That comment is particularly amusing in a thread which starts "Am I the only one..."

1 hour ago, Stranded_Napkin said:

Either my luck has gone sour or something has been done to slow down the pace of loot progression.

OP appeared to not understand why on Day 7 he was still getting lower-tier loot even with Lucky Looter and goggles etc. I was only trying to explain to him why this is happening. It seems likely, given how he appears to dislike much about A17-A19, that now that he understands this is an intentional change (not a bug in A19) he will join the chorus of discontent.

13 minutes ago, Solomon said:

His points are perfectly valid, you can only do 2 things currently in A19:

You absolutely can choose to limit your options to just two. Everybody plays the game in the way they prefer. My preference is to loot everything just as always, knowing that there are literally thousands of lootable objects in the game and it's not like I'm going to run out before GS12. As well, the primitive/stone age implements are proving pretty effective for me - moreso than in A18. I don't particularly miss finding pistols and ammo, or a steel tool, on Day 3. Not when I can one-shot Moe/Bloated Walker with a primitive bow and iron arrows and a little Hidden Strike.

 

As you say, it's perfectly valid for you to think otherwise.

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally its not a huge issue for me.  They are adding a actual progression to the game. I am still finding pistols in toilets day 2-3 and muskets take care of most zeds. The horde nights are also scaled so if you dont have alot of progress in the gamestages the game is not crushing you.  It really has not changed how I play cause I know the game is scaling the zeds.   Except for that damn Day 2 dog pack that crap can go to hell.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boidster said:

You absolutely can choose to limit your options to just two. Everybody plays the game in the way they prefer. My preference is to loot everything just as always, knowing that there are literally thousands of lootable objects in the game and it's not like I'm going to run out before GS12

Dude, honestly even i A18 we already had this "loot repeats itself" feeling and that alpha had random loot.

 

Limiting it further down is not going to improve the situation, infact it will only come faster this time because of how linear and forced it is. Literally why would i waste my time in opening any kind of closed safes or those sealed containers if i know exactly what im gonna find in them and already have multiples of those items.

 

Compared to A18 the only way for me to actually feel like im playing 7 Days to Die like it has been advertised is to either edit the loot xml or use the command line to spike up our gamestage/level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Solomon said:

Literally why would i waste my time in opening any kind of closed safes or those sealed containers if i know exactly what im gonna find in them and already have multiples of those items.

You are begging the question with the part in bold, but every opinion is valid and I absolutely understand why you would not loot containers if you consider it a waste of time. That's just rational behavior! Modding the game and pop-tarting your character are also rational if you dislike the progression. I 100% support your actions in this. I just hold a different opinion on the "waste of time" thing, so I take different actions which are rational for me.

 

Now, if I had Q6 T0 items across the board before GS10 (when a tiny % chance for T1 stuff kicks in IIRC), then I might get a bit more impatient for gamestage increases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, kidmo31 said:

They are adding a actual progression to the game. I am still finding pistols in toilets day 2-3

I hate the loot system so much.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Boidster said:

You are begging the question with the part in bold, but every opinion is valid and I absolutely understand why you would not loot containers if you consider it a waste of time. That's just rational behavior! Modding the game and pop-tarting your character are also rational if you dislike the progression. I 100% support your actions in this. I just hold a different opinion on the "waste of time" thing, so I take different actions which are rational for me.

 

Now, if I had Q6 T0 items across the board before GS10 (when a tiny % chance for T1 stuff kicks in IIRC), then I might get a bit more impatient for gamestage increases.

I know it has some logical fallacy there but the thing is that we dont have enough loot to use any kind of system limitation on what we can get.

 

Currently i need to open approx 11 specific containers to get all stone age items from that point onwards the loot repeats itself and its kinda pointless to continue looting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Loot in a19 has basically been turned into some linear garbage, till GS 35 or so, your never going to find anything other than stone tools, primitive bow, bone knifes, and scrap armor. By GS 20-25 or so you'll find these items mostly at quality 6. A bit after gs 31 qual 1 iron stuff can start showing up, then by a later gs you'll always find qual 5-6 in every container. Then it repeats a 3rd time with the next tier up of loot. Its a garbage system thats completly boring, removes ALL fun from looting, as you get the same crap every game no matter what. They need to go back to how a18 did it, quality 4-6 stuff was very rare, but loot was random, you could find iron or steel tools if your lucky on day 1, or find a workbench schematic early etc. A19's loot system removed all that and its the same boring carbon copy loot path every game. Even what schematics you find are locked in by the game stage.

 

I hope they go back to a18 loot in 19.1, as it'd just be copying loot.xml from a18 and adding the new items, because when its out of experimental I can see the mass complaining about the new crap loot system they puked out. The system would work fine in a LINEAR RPG, but 7 days to die is supposed to be a survival zombie apoc sandbox pretty much, not a linear rpg. The loot system has pretty much removed the sandbox randomness they usually have and turned it into a linear piece of crap.

3 hours ago, Xtrakicking said:

I hate the loot system so much.

Pretty much everyone hates a19's loot system, and want it to go back to a18 at least. As I said in my other post A18's loot was fun, you never knew what you were going to find, and it made looting intersting, a19 hits, and now I am ignoring many loot containers till higher  gamestage because I know all its going to have is garbage like stone tools and such that are of no value to me. I get miner 69'er to 3/4 very early in my games, so I am usually running around with quality 4 or 5 iron tools by day 3 or 4 that I crafted, making pretty much every loot container till after day 7 or 8 completly pointless for me to open.

 

I tend to get str to 5, sex t-rex to 3, miner 69'er to 4, and club or sledgehammer to 3 asap, then I get agility to 5, and the sneak improving perk to 3. I only spend 1 point in intel and thats for adv engineering 1, for early forge access. You can fight the day 7 and 14 hordes with a melee weapon, Hell I do it hiding behind literally 1 block between me and the horde, I just have a tool on me and mats to fix that one block so they never get through it.

 

They also could go back to learn by doing and do it right this time, take the weapon/mining tools perks we have now, instead of having them locked to stats, have learn by doing, and the perk levels still set what quality of that weapon type you can craft, except now you have to raise the skill, at 1 skill u can get level 1 of the perk, 20 is 2, 40 (or 30) is 3, 60 (or 50) is 4, and 80 (or 60) is level 5 the perks themselves can be the same ones we have now in a19 just locked to learn by doing instead of stats. A mod I like darkness falls uses this type of progression and it works great. Hell that mod has thrown the stats in the trash can entirely as it was a stupid concept from the get go.

Edited by Scyris (see edit history)
  • Thanks 2
  • Dislike 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This doesn't sound good. I don't mind stone age tools and weapons use them a lot anyways, but I don't like linearity. Random is so important in these games, bringing back degradation would solve this. Have the chance to find decent tools/weapons but degrading means you need a way to fix, keep looting to find other tools/weapons to use. Currently no degradation, find that pink weapon/tool gg.

  • Dislike 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SickPuppy said:

This doesn't sound good. I don't mind stone age tools and weapons use them a lot anyways, but I don't like linearity. Random is so important in these games, bringing back degradation would solve this. Have the chance to find decent tools/weapons but degrading means you need a way to fix, keep looting to find other tools/weapons to use. Currently no degradation, find that pink weapon/tool gg.

Yeah its mostly the removal of randomness that bugs me the most about a19's loot, that and the guarnteed quality 6 out of every container past a certain gs, was much better in a18, qual 1-3 was normal 4-6 was rare no matter your GS, and it was randomized loot, so you could get lucky and find a steel pickaxe or pump shotty on day 1, depending how your luck was. As I said. pretty much everyone who play a19 experimental hates the new loot system,. it'd work in a linear rpg decent enough, but this is a sandbox style game, and they live on randomness. I never get intel in my builds, so i'm at the mercy of rng for getting workbench etc up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It comes down to either waiting until they are done or making the best of it until it is done. The current system is not the final intention and playing with partially done systems is all part of early access. If you absolutely cannot wait until they fill out the early loot tables with more variety, create areas of better loot for greater risks, and tune things in then mod it for yourself and have done. 
 

The feedback is noted but it is also received in the context that the system is a work in progress and we all signed up to play during that progress and not have to wait until all the progress is complete. 
 

9 minutes ago, Scyris said:

pretty much everyone who play a19 experimental hates the new loot system,.

Claiming the unknowable majority....the surest sign of a weak argument. Gotta pump it up somehow. 
 

You act like this is the intended final design. Are you unaware that it won’t always be like this?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Constant rebalancing the game is the part of every alpha. I wish only the game stage would have been locked/determined by more dangerous/hazardous zones or biomes. Eneimies/traps/hazard/materials to be breached. More complex and dangerous areas with better loot that would actually encourage players to level up/grab some gear before visiting them. Just syncronizing the loot exclusively with progression of a player may not necessarily feel right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Solomon said:

You might have noticed that this has become quite reoccurring as people in general dont like the new forced linear loot system. His points are perfectly valid, you can only do 2 things currently in A19:

 

You either dont loot till your gamestage actually raises high enough so this stone age nonsense goes away or you accept that every safe will have the same useless loot so why even loot them?

When you say "people" whom do you mean? I like the changes.

  • Like 1
  • Dislike 1
  • Poop 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Solomon said:

I know it has some logical fallacy there but the thing is that we dont have enough loot to use any kind of system limitation on what we can get.

 

Currently i need to open approx 11 specific containers to get all stone age items from that point onwards the loot repeats itself and its kinda pointless to continue looting. 

I don't know, in the stone age I need lots of iron, glue, leather, recipes, rotten meat, seeds, food cans, fruits, mechanical parts, mods, wood, stone, cloth, first aid bandages, clothes, bicycle parts, feathers, eggs, ... 

 

It may be the case that you are only interested in playing the shooter part of the game (?) and don't need anything of above, but for that there are settings like 300% xp or creative mode. Make your own rules.

 

3 hours ago, TWORDY said:

Constant rebalancing the game is the part of every alpha. I wish only the game stage would have been locked/determined by more dangerous/hazardous zones or biomes. Eneimies/traps/hazard/materials to be breached. More complex and dangerous areas with better loot that would actually encourage players to level up/grab some gear before visiting them. Just syncronizing the loot exclusively with progression of a player may not necessarily feel right.

 

Your wish seems to be exactly what is planned for A20.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am ignoring wall safes and gun safes until I am doing tier 3 quests and then I'm not sure if that's waiting long enough yet. But the loot system isn't all that bad. I'm looting some blue blue padded armor with the tier 2 quests I'm doing and I use light armor. I can only make yellow.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, meganoth said:

I don't know, in the stone age I need lots of iron, glue, leather, recipes, rotten meat, seeds, food cans, fruits, mechanical parts, mods, wood, stone, cloth, first aid bandages, clothes, bicycle parts, feathers, eggs, ... 

 

It may be the case that you are only interested in playing the shooter part of the game (?) and don't need anything of above, but for that there are settings like 300% xp or creative mode. Make your own rules.

For the first part of the game i need tons of wood, stone and clay only to build a base.

 

 

Everything else is ignoreable, food and water doesnt matter because we have the newbie protection(if i remember right), dying doesnt matter for me at all so i dont care about medicine, never collected feathers because neither me or my brother likes bows (they are terribly weak), we were already at day 22-ish when we crafted our first bike and we literally did not care about transportation.

 

I honestly dont care if i find guns or not, its part of the luck and exploration and because i specced into int at start i only cared about finding myself a stun baton. I dont like the blunderbuss its a terrible weapon and uses too much precious materials and honestly i dont think im gonna like flintlock pistols and such if they ever got introduced.

 

I dont like linear and predictable loot, i like to get suprised to find something what i was not expecting (pistol in the toilet) but this is all removed. I know whats coming and i dont like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Solomon said:

For the first part of the game i need tons of wood, stone and clay only to build a base.

 

 

Everything else is ignoreable, food and water doesnt matter because we have the newbie protection(if i remember right), dying doesnt matter for me at all so i dont care about medicine, never collected feathers because neither me or my brother likes bows (they are terribly weak), we were already at day 22-ish when we crafted our first bike and we literally did not care about transportation.

 

I honestly dont care if i find guns or not, its part of the luck and exploration and because i specced into int at start i only cared about finding myself a stun baton. I dont like the blunderbuss its a terrible weapon and uses too much precious materials and honestly i dont think im gonna like flintlock pistols and such if they ever got introduced.

 

I dont like linear and predictable loot, i like to get suprised to find something what i was not expecting (pistol in the toilet) but this is all removed. I know whats coming and i dont like that.

Such an impressive list of stuff you don't like or care about, one has to wonder why you play this game at all. (No, you don't need to answer that. There are many groups of players who play 7D2D for just one aspect of the game. But they will never be completely happy with the end result because TFP will surely not throw out major parts of the game just for any one group)

 

The death penalty in this game is a compromise so as to not lead to death loops for newbies but still provide a disincentive to people so they don't use it strategically or ignore it. If the latter part fails, parts of the game loop fail.

 

A horde night for example is trivial when someone just opts to stand there and let himself be killed every 7 days. Not much the developers can do there. And yes, I know you don't do that, it is just an example of the fact that the developers can't please everyone and especially not people who ignore or don't care for large parts of the game.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Solomon said:

I dont like the blunderbuss its a terrible weapon and uses too much precious materials

Opinions will differ. I love the Blunderbuss and think its ammo is incredible cheap and accessible early game. Personally I would never classify stones, gunpowder, and paper to be precious as they are all fairly abundant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, meganoth said:

Such an impressive list of stuff you don't like or care about, one has to wonder why you play this game at all. (No, you don't need to answer that. There are many groups of players who play 7D2D for just one aspect of the game. But they will never be completely happy with the end result because TFP will surely not throw out major parts of the game just for any one group)

 

The death penalty in this game is a compromise so as to not lead to death loops for newbies but still provide a disincentive to people so they don't use it strategically or ignore it. If the latter part fails, parts of the game loop fail.

 

A horde night for example is trivial when someone just opts to stand there and let himself be killed every 7 days. Not much the developers can do there. And yes, I know you don't do that, it is just an example of the fact that the developers can't please everyone and especially not people who ignore or don't care for large parts of the game.

I came here for some authenthic basebuilding experience even thought im disappointed that i had to opt into typical tower defense AI shenigans because the AI is developed to be "smart" enough to pathfind and attack the weakest spot what in return made the AI stupider.

 

I started out in A18 enjoying how random things were and the open world experience was handled well, that feeling that we wont find anything "new" arrived at around day 32ish but the randomised aspect of the loot helped a lot for this to appear as late as possible.

 

I really like crafting that with enough materials i can always make myself what i want but this was already limited in A18 because i need to scrap weapons to get weapon parts but its even more limiting in A19 because there are no weapons to scrap.

 

I liked the idea of the 7th day horde especially since normal days are just kind of empty? Like there are not much zombies roaming around, few animals and all that but you are generally perfectly safe till the 7th day.

 

 

At this point im probably just going to mod in A18 loot system into A19 when it goes stable.

 

12 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

Opinions will differ. I love the Blunderbuss and think its ammo is incredible cheap and accessible early game. Personally I would never classify stones, gunpowder, and paper to be precious as they are all fairly abundant.

Even before i started producing bullets i was always on gunpowder shortage. Got any tips where to farm it en masse?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Even before i started producing bullets i was always on gunpowder shortage. Got any tips where to farm it en masse?

Just mine nitrate and coal and craft your own gunpowder. Crafting it in the inventory is not as efficient as in the chemistry station but it's enough for a start. Otherwise you can buy it cheaply from the trader.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Logged in for the first time in awhile to add my two cents - love the change to loot. Me and my entire group of friends. It creates different types of play at different stages of the game, we have used items we have literally never used except to try once and then scrap (looking at you blunderbuss). It may mean that breaking open a gun safe at LVL 5 isn't worthwhile, but that is ok! Looting weapon yielding loot will give ammo typically at lower levels - which you can stockpile for later! Finding or buying a gun of choice feels like a victory, and not just a step. For the first time in a long time it feels like the game has a real sense of progression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...