The game should become more hardcore

[gurutar]

as others have pointed out, this game is as "hardcore" as you want it to be. you can create as much difficulty as you want.

 

i remember a thread on GameFaqs or something that complained that MGS5 was too easy. but in that game you have all these magic tools to give yourself a tremendous advantage over your enemies. however, you have the option of dropping in to a mission with no buddy, no camo, no weapons, no equipment, no upgraded anything, and try to do a perfect stealth run fast enough to get an S rank. anyone who complains that that is too easy is trying to show off.

 

this game makes it even easier to create a "hardcore" experience by giving you tons of options that affect difficulty. and you can also self-impose all kinds of restrictions. no trader. limit the number of crates and safes you can open. use no light source at night. only use Q1 weapons and tools. the list goes on and on.

 

so no, this game does not need to be more "hardcore", we're folk who sit on a chair or a couch and play video games for entertainment. not actual apocalypse survivors.

[FA_Q2]

The game should absolutely be more 'hardcore' but then again I would not consider myself to be an average player and, ergo, not the target the devs are reaching for.

 

Nothing in the op has anything to do with hardcore play at all though so.....

 

 

[Esperante]

NO absolutely DO NOT make the game more hardcore its already been ruined enough because of a bunch of whinny babys that didnt like how it was altho i do appreciate the trader quests skill tree and new weapons

[myrkana]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:16 AM, Kalen said:

Semantics.... I'm pretty sure you know what I  meant.  With the current system you cannot be an expert miner and an expert with pistols without significantly more investment of points than you would to be an expert miner and an expert with a shotgun.   That was not an issue with LBD.  

Fair enough.  The interesting thing for me was the lack of limits in previous alphas.

 

but you can. The base amount of points is plenty to go down two trees with little trouble. I always pick two trees and easily go down them both and get what I want.

[Kalen]

3 hours ago, myrkana said:

but you can. The base amount of points is plenty to go down two trees with little trouble. I always pick two trees and easily go down them both and get what I want.

I never said you couldn't.... I said that the costs were not equal.  

[Roland]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:16 AM, Kalen said:

With the current system you cannot be an expert miner and an expert with pistols without significantly more investment of points than you would to be an expert miner and an expert with a shotgun

 

That seems to be a pretty good representation of how we learn things based on natural traits and abilities that we have. With my investment into my education and training it would be relatively cheap at this point to invest a bit more and become a College professor of math or become an administrator. But if I want to be doctor it would be significantly more expensive for me to do so.

 

The key here is that you CAN be an expert in mining and pistols if you want. It will take more time and you may have to make sacrifices in other areas but you can do it. The game doesn't lock you out of it.  If the added expense and time are really bothersome then simply change the number 4 in quests.xml into a 16 and buy out that second attribute. Now your extra expense is gone.

 

I know "mod it" isn't something people like to hear, but in this case the system is done and with a bit of polish is intended for gold. So....."mod it" really is the only answer if you don't like it.

[FA_Q2]

 

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

That seems to be a pretty good representation of how we learn things based on natural traits and abilities that we have. With my investment into my education and training it would be relatively cheap at this point to invest a bit more and become a College professor of math or become an administrator. But if I want to be doctor it would be significantly more expensive for me to do so.

 

The key here is that you CAN be an expert in mining and pistols if you want. It will take more time and you may have to make sacrifices in other areas but you can do it. The game doesn't lock you out of it.  If the added expense and time are really bothersome then simply change the number 4 in quests.xml into a 16 and buy out that second attribute. Now your extra expense is gone.

 

I know "mod it" isn't something people like to hear, but in this case the system is done and with a bit of polish is intended for gold. So....."mod it" really is the only answer if you don't like it.

Unfortunately.

 

I think they really screwed the pooch by joining combat styles with other base game parts but as you say the system is essentially complete so it's not going to change dramatically.

 

Stuck with strength every damn time because I am going to be doing a lot of mining

 

 

[Kalen]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

That seems to be a pretty good representation of how we learn things based on natural traits and abilities that we have. With my investment into my education and training it would be relatively cheap at this point to invest a bit more and become a College professor of math or become an administrator. But if I want to be doctor it would be significantly more expensive for me to do so.

 

The key here is that you CAN be an expert in mining and pistols if you want. It will take more time and you may have to make sacrifices in other areas but you can do it. The game doesn't lock you out of it.  If the added expense and time are really bothersome then simply change the number 4 in quests.xml into a 16 and buy out that second attribute. Now your extra expense is gone.

 

I know "mod it" isn't something people like to hear, but in this case the system is done and with a bit of polish is intended for gold. So....."mod it" really is the only answer if you don't like it.

To be honest, the current system doesn't bother me enough to mod it; its fine.   I just liked LBD better and this is just one of the reasons why.

[TWORDY]

You cant satisfy everyone as they say.... I wish more options could have been available for tweaking, so modding the game wouldnt be that much necessary. Making polished/smooth animations is a must. Finally fixing framerate and optimization for multicore/threaded CPUs. Devs should derive a little bit from other mods for the game or incorporate solutions from SMX mod etc. which is a very popular mod. Balancing and progession system is the next thing I could think of now.

[eXSe]

On 7/29/2020 at 11:42 PM, Scyris said:

Most players do, and TFP is being stuborne about bringing back the learn by doing that made A16 so memoriable, or part of the reason why it was anyway. Now I miss A18, because other than the graphical things, A18 was overall a much more fun entertaining game, and as I said, the new loot system removed most of the fun from the game for me, and apparently for quite a few others too, as most people that reply do not care for the new loot system in a19 either. They can revert it in a 19.x patch, just copy a18's loot system over (its just xml entries iirc), and add in the new things. Maybe tweak it so a bit harder to find higher technology tier things, but otherwise leave it like a18 was.

There is a modlet for that, so that's good (FAWK-LOOT-ALL).

 

For those seeking more HC experience, there are modlets for that also... 8x spawns for zambies (so, you're swimming in them), also bigger wandering hordes (like 5-6 times bigger) a sight to behold truly (WrathmaniacsMoreZombies_x8 & FAWK-WANDERING-HORDES)

[Yakov]

If you want hardcore, Ravenhearst or Darkness falls mods are good

[IDNeon]

I know this thread is played-out.

But I just want to say I restarted my Insane-Nightmare map yesterday to try a new core-base design.

I was literally screaming my head off after dying every 5 minutes just trying to get to where I wanted to build my base.

I had to delete save and restart the map each time because I am going for 0 deaths.

I'm just going to say, if you want hardcore, the DEFAULT Insane-difficulty is impossible. You'll starve to death because you won't be able to do anything until you're high enough level. Travelling 800m to finish the quest is a 5:10 chance to die running there, and another 5:10 chance to die at the traders.

I had a dammed Nightmare zombie RUN INTO THE TRADERS as I slammed the door behind me and kill me IN THE TRADERS.

I had zombies ripping-up my base. I would crouch there and just hear them wander by saying to myself "go away....just....GO AWAY" like Carl hiding from Frylock.

Then "SNARL" and dead.

I don't think Insane with zero-deaths is possible without good luck. After surviving some 50% death rolls, and you get a noob base. Good luck not starving to death without a Trader. Without a trader I'd have died even with the few chickens/eggs I found.

Going out to get a rabbit or chicken is a near death sentence.

[RipClaw]

9 minutes ago, IDNeon said:

I'm just going to say, if you want hardcore, the DEFAULT Insane-difficulty is impossible.

It is possible but you need to have a lot of experience with the game to know all the tricks and tactics that will allow you to survive.

 

I don't know if you know Jonah Birch.  He is a Twitch streamer and plays 7 Days to die at least once a week. His default settings are Insane difficulty and Nightmare speed. When he dies he starts a new game but this doesn't happen often.

 

His favorite tactic in the early game is to use the bone knife. He utilizes the bleeding damage to kill zombies and to hunt because the bleeding damage is the same regardless of the difficulty.

 

[IDNeon]

2 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

It is possible but you need to have a lot of experience with the game to know all the tricks and tactics that will allow you to survive.

 

8 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

His favorite tactic in the early game is to use the bone knife. He utilizes the bleeding damage to kill zombies and to hunt because the bleeding damage is the same regardless of the difficulty.

I only just learned about that aspect, Ironically, and here  you are mentioning it again. It does seem cool.

Sadly I already went pummel pete - again - haha. This start-up I finally got my base design I wanted so don't know if I'd reroll another character.

But I do the Insane-Nightmare and Horde Every Night...12 hour nights.

[RipClaw]

4 minutes ago, IDNeon said:

But I do the Insane-Nightmare and Horde Every Night...12 hour nights.

This is pretty much maximum hardcore. I would probably die so often that I would get all the achievements for dying

 

[IDNeon]

10 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

This is pretty much maximum hardcore. I would probably die so often that I would get all the achievements for dying

 

Well I am watching those insane-nightmare videos, Jonah and another guy.

Do zombies spawn FASTER at night? Because their experience even in A19 is DEFINITELY not my experience. But my experience night lasts until 1000.

And because I need the first day longer to complete all the quest bullshiz (OCD)....I set the day to 120min.

So if zombies spawn more at night that could explain why I was getting my Bootay kicked so hard in the beginning. It was like a minefield of zombies before I even got to the traders. Eventually I rolled a map where the conditions were right that I could get my initial base started.

[Sjustus548]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

This is pretty much maximum hardcore. I would probably die so often that I would get all the achievements for dying

 

I think an even more hardcore version would be Insane-Nightmare difficulty, 64 zombie hordes, blood moon every night, 50% night time, with 10 minute days.  Having 5 minutes of day time then 5 min of horde night would be crazy lol.  Eventually you wouldn't be able to kill the zombies fast enough before the next set would spawn.  

[Boidster]

34 minutes ago, Sjustus548 said:

I think an even more hardcore version would be Insane-Nightmare difficulty, 64 zombie hordes, blood moon every night, 50% night time, with 10 minute days.

Luxury! I have to start the horde at 2AM, two hours before the previous one ends, and LICK the corpses clean as they fall. Then I have to work 26 hours per day at the trader, for two rotten meat per day, and at the end of the day the horde would rip my head off and feast on the goo inside. IF I AM LUCKY!

 

 

[Axonius]

There are mods. And you can adjust settings as other have indicated.

 

I feel you though. I think there could be more of a sneak element.  I think of the movie Legend with Will Smith.  The game has that feel at the beginning, but then you still become a god later. Even by upping the difficulty and settings, you will still become a god, it will just take longer.  Not sure how to maintain that fear/desperation thing that they nailed early in the game - but then it gets a little boring and grindy once you get to super solider.

[IDNeon]

2 hours ago, Axonius said:

There are mods. And you can adjust settings as other have indicated.

 

I feel you though. I think there could be more of a sneak element.  I think of the movie Legend with Will Smith.  The game has that feel at the beginning, but then you still become a god later. Even by upping the difficulty and settings, you will still become a god, it will just take longer.  Not sure how to maintain that fear/desperation thing that they nailed early in the game - but then it gets a little boring and grindy once you get to super solider.

Introduce....the ninja zombie. The aZZaZZin of the living, the undead Zednobi.

 

The latest game terror...Niiiiight of the Sneaking Dead.

 

A zombie type that sneaks, is fast, doesn't alert itself when it notices you, covers behind objects to get closer, and tries to stay behind you.

[SylenThunder]

7 hours ago, IDNeon said:

I know this thread is played-out.

But I just want to say I restarted my Insane-Nightmare map yesterday to try a new core-base design.

I was literally screaming my head off after dying every 5 minutes just trying to get to where I wanted to build my base.

I had to delete save and restart the map each time because I am going for 0 deaths.

I'm just going to say, if you want hardcore, the DEFAULT Insane-difficulty is impossible. You'll starve to death because you won't be able to do anything until you're high enough level. Travelling 800m to finish the quest is a 5:10 chance to die running there, and another 5:10 chance to die at the traders.

I had a dammed Nightmare zombie RUN INTO THE TRADERS as I slammed the door behind me and kill me IN THE TRADERS.

I had zombies ripping-up my base. I would crouch there and just hear them wander by saying to myself "go away....just....GO AWAY" like Carl hiding from Frylock.

Then "SNARL" and dead.

I don't think Insane with zero-deaths is possible without good luck. After surviving some 50% death rolls, and you get a noob base. Good luck not starving to death without a Trader. Without a trader I'd have died even with the few chickens/eggs I found.

Going out to get a rabbit or chicken is a near death sentence.

Yeah, this sounds pretty close to early game in nightmare mode. Persistence is key. 

 

Our group is actually looking to spin up a new server on insane. Here's what we're going with...

• Map Size: 12k custom generated
• Max Player Count: 10 players
• Difficulty: 5-Insane
• Block Damage Player: 100
• Block Damage AI: 200
• Block Damage AI BM: 300
• Experience Multiplier: 100%
• Loot Abundance: 50%
• Loot Respawn Days: 240
• Day Length: 60 minutes
• Daylight Length: 16 hours
• Drop on Death: Nothing
• Bedroll Expiry Time: 7 days
• Claim Block Expiry Time: 7 Days
• Land Claim Size: 41
• Max Active LCB's: 1
• BloodMoon Enemy Count: 24
• Enemy Difficulty: Feral
• Zombie Move Speed: Run
• Zombie Night Speed: Sprint
• Zombie Feral Speed: Nightmare
• Zombie BloodMoon Speed: Nightmare

• Airdrop Frequency: Maybe

• Party Exp Share Distance: 25 meters

Then for mods we've got...

Trees Respawn: 10% chance for a seed when felling a tree

Insane Zombies: Multiply zombie damage and hit points by 2.5, and also multiply headshots by 2.5.  Makes head shots more meaningful.

4x Biome Spawns: Jax Teller's mod for increased roaming zeds. Vanilla has way too few.

Khaine's Bigger Bloodmoon: Because we wanted to be able to support more zeds and lower AI impact.

Snufkin's Custom Zombies: Playing around with this one.  looks hella fun. 

And some other minor mods for the UI and some fixes I wrote.
We've also decided not to reset regions or POI's on a regular basis like we do on our other servers. Make exploration a little more meaningful. When the city next to you resets regularly and you can loot it all over again, you really don't have a reason to get out and explore. And if you're not exploring, you're missing out on a lot of zeds. 

 

Running tests on it now to see how all of the mods work together, and then will be opening it up soon.

[Boidster]

15 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Drop on Death: Nothing

So, a carebear server. 😁

[IDNeon]

20 hours ago, Sjustus548 said:

Having 5 minutes of day time then 5 min of horde night would be crazy lol.

Does previous hordes count to next horde "max limit"?

Could this be a way to break the max 64 limit?

[SylenThunder]

32 minutes ago, Boidster said:

So, a carebear server. 😁

Well when you're expected to die every 3-5 minutes, we figure it will ease the frustration a little bit.

 

Server is now live. steam://connect/68.41.178.221:26980

[IDNeon]

1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

Well when you're expected to die every 3-5 minutes, we figure it will ease the frustration a little bit.

I've been running continuous insane hordes for 30 minutes straight, albeit right now I'm only GS 34 in my new base build design.

but 0 deaths so far.