The game should become more hardcore

[calebelt]

After version 16, the game became stupid and boring. Weak zombies, stupid RPG character leveling system, strange modifications for everything. On the first levels, you have several dozen muskets. No one plays with muskets, they are stupid weapons. Developers specifically force you to use it. Even so, a musket is worse than a bow. Loot in the game must be completely random and do not depend on the level of the player. You can find a rifle in the first house, or you can find ten evil zombies there.
At about level 10, it becomes uninteresting to play.
At level 30, all the boxes are full of ammo. During the Horde, you can take a machine gun and 3000 rounds of ammunition and just walk around shooting.
If you have collected, found or bought a robot gun, this gun will do everything for you. No need to aim, no need to produce bullets. For this gun, everything is metal around the bullet, why go anywhere at all?
The main weapon of a zombie fighter is a chainsaw made useless even for cutting firewood. The entire game should focus on chainsaw modifications. Who needs these strange-looking spears or electric sticks? Ash doesn't agree!!!
Zombies that disappear in the air is a huge minus for the whole game. When there were corpses left after the zombies, it was very cool and apocalyptic. The developers plan to make it so that the zombies jump on their heads and coins fly out of them?
Developers are going to meet whiners and weaklings. The game should have more fear, more surprise attacks, whole packs of mutant dogs, more ugly mutant zombies. To make the player afraid and keep looking around.
Players complain about griffins. Very difficult. I'm complaining, too. Instead of griffins, there should be flocks of mutant birds. For example, 30 zombie crows attack you from all sides. This is the Apocalypse, run, hide, fight as hard as you can. Fill up your chainsaw and look back every few seconds.

 

[Gr.o.m.]

machineguns and shotguns are for boys. Try a pure perception build. Thats the build for the real man.  🙃

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Gr.o.m. Without using any gun ofc.

 

What this game needs back again is the slider in the menu for how many zombies spawn. Other than that you can make the game pretty hardcore already.

 

I use the blunderbuss (what you call a musket, but that´s something totally different) a lot these days in A19. Like many others.

 

You wan´t it harder? Go Insane difficulty, 40min days, with 32 zombies at bloodmoon (64 if your cpu can handle this), 50% loot, no loot respawn, no air drop, don´t use the trader or vending machines and make yourself a nitrogen map with wasteland only, zombies always running and give them higher block damage. Then tell us again how much hardcore you need.

 

Focusing the game around one weapon only would make it boring af. So no thx.

[Gr.o.m.]

Bah fighting zombies with weapons. Back in my time we fought them with bare hands, since we could not afford to buy us those fancy stonethingies you juggle around today. coff, coff 🙃😉

[myrkana]

If you want a more hardcore game, go do it yourself. The base game is set so most people can have fun and learn the game. You can make a more hardcore game by doing things like setting no loot respawn, insane difficulty, 25% loot, etc... play with the settings and make the experience you want

[calebelt]

The game does not get harder if you remove loot and increase the number of zombies. You will spend more time on the extraction of resources.

I will still be able to build the cannon to get the iron and relax. I will still find, buy, and assemble 8 machine guns. I'll make a modification for them to fit more bullets. I will put these machine guns in all the fast slots and "survive". This is not survival, this is a sandbox where you sometimes have to hit a zombie with a strange electric stick. You can even remove all the zombies from this version of the game and not much will change.

[myrkana]

On 7/26/2020 at 10:09 AM, calebelt said:

The game does not get harder if you remove loot and increase the number of zombies. You will spend more time on the extraction of resources.

I will still be able to build the cannon to get the iron and relax. I will still find, buy, and assemble 8 machine guns. I'll make a modification for them to fit more bullets. I will put these machine guns in all the fast slots and "survive". This is not survival, this is a sandbox where you sometimes have to hit a zombie with a strange electric stick. You can even remove all the zombies from this version of the game and not much will change.

first: what cannon? Do you mean a forge and thats just a translation error or something?

 

so impose restrictions on yourself. Mod those things out. The game is highly customisable, use that to make the changes you want. It does get ahrer with less loot and no loot respawn. 

No respawn = having to go further to find the stuff you need if you dont get lucky early on. Especially with loot scaling by game stage. To get the higher value loot you'll have to not loot high value places like shotgun messiahs and the like early on.  Once you loot a building that is it. If you loot a bookcase and never find that miner 69er book or the last pistol pete book you will not find it unless a trader has it.

 

Combine that with 25% loot and its even harder. Considering the 3rd tier of everything needs some sort of parts this can add a large difficulty factor if your zombies get to radiated but you're still using tier 1 weapons because thats all you found.

 

Add in self inposed or modded rules like no weapon mods allowed, or no traders, etc...

[Ramethzer0]

I'm not cool with people forcing a hardcore difficulty on others that didn't opt in for it.

 

I am also against the sweaty alpha wannabe's all whinging about their hardcore entitlements and buhu this and that.

There are selectable levels of difficulty for hardcore players.  How about you take a spin in max difficulty and 15 minute

days and then come back and THEN talk about your experience.

[calebelt]

12 hours ago, myrkana said:

Add in self inposed or modded rules like no weapon mods allowed, or no traders, etc...

What for? Imagine there is a game about racing. In this game, there are few turns on the tracks and slow cars. Players are asked to add interesting tracks with obstacles and increase the speed of cars. But you say: you need to do 20 laps on a circular track at a speed of 30 km/h. And if I say that it is no more fun, Then you will offer to do 50 laps on a straight track at a speed of 10 km/h.

 

12 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

I'm not cool with people forcing a hardcore difficulty on others that didn't opt in for it.

In games, you can make settings with checkboxes. Weak players will disable all difficulties.

In early versions of the game, they survived in the desert and wilderness. The rules of the game were more complicated than you can now set in the settings. When the bridge appeared, spare parts for it could only be found in rare air conditioners and shopping carts.

[Biscoitoso]

45 minutes ago, calebelt said:

In games, you can make settings with checkboxes. Weak players will disable all difficulties.

In early versions of the game, they survived in the desert and wilderness. The rules of the game were more complicated than you can now set in the settings. When the bridge appeared, spare parts for it could only be found in rare air conditioners and shopping carts.

And whats the problem with people changing the settings to turn their games more easy? Whats the problem if they want play in creative? Or even without zombies? Or XP 300% and Loot 300%?

Its a game after all. The purpose of a game like this is to give fun to its players. If you like hardcore game, like me, just configure settings like you want, or play in servers with hard settings, if you dont, just easy the game. It is fair enough for all of us, hardcore and soft players. Dont try oblige all players play YOUR style of gameplay.

I would be very angry if someone came here and said that now, mandatorily, the maximum difficulty of the game would be easy and without bloodmoons just because there are people who hate bloodmoon. And I am sure you would be very angry just as me. So, if you dont like this idea, dont try forcer others play hardcore juts because you like.

And on top of that, there are players who dont have much time to play, they not are like me, who can play 4-8 hours in a single day and can go through a hardcore gameplaying. Some can play just 1 hour, or 30 min, but still like the game, still want play and need easy settings and easy looting to achieve high levels and high tier. Without the soft settings, these players will be locked at the stoneage forever. And no fun for all. Less players, less customers buiyng the game, and at the end: TFP droping the project and turning our beloved game abandoned.

I will stand by your side if you want TFP improve gameplay mechanics and add more hardcore OPTIONS to the game, but I will opose you if you want turn these options mandatory.

Think about that.

[RipClaw]

On 7/26/2020 at 5:09 PM, calebelt said:

The game does not get harder if you remove loot and increase the number of zombies.

If you believe that then you have never tried it.

 

I had the day 91 horde yesterday. The base I use is originally designed for 8-12 zombies at a time and I set it to 32 zombies. Other than that, I didn't change any of the difficulty settings.
The difference was huge. Instead of a handful of zombies it was like you would imagine a horde. You didn't see anything else but zombies. The base was originally built for close combat but without a shotgun, an M60 and a lot of ammo it would not have been possible to fight the zombies.

3 hours ago, calebelt said:

What for? Imagine there is a game about racing. In this game, there are few turns on the tracks and slow cars. Players are asked to add interesting tracks with obstacles and increase the speed of cars.

But that's not what you asked for. Hardcore would mean that you have an obstacle course that can only be mastered by professionals. Preferably with exploding cars and enemies shooting at you and you have to dodge while trying to win the race.

3 hours ago, calebelt said:

In games, you can make settings with checkboxes. Weak players will disable all difficulties.

The developers have already said that they do not want to clutter the menu with options. That's what mods are for. It is extremely easy to modify the game. Once the Steam Workshop is integrated you will have a lot of possibilities to customize your game.

[Gazz]

There's a lot to unwrap here.

So the OP is playing Ark and complains that griffins are too hard. (to tame?)

I can assure you that this is not the case. There have been games where a griffin had been my first tame. Just don't go for a high level one at first.

 

Other parts seem related to 7DTD where the game is way too easy with guns but the complaint is that he cannot find guns on day 1, therefore the game is too hard?

"Muskets are worse than bows" is something I can confirm because muskets are not in the game. Now a blunderbuss - a completely different thing - is in the game and can easily outperform a primitive bow... except at range.

 

Making the game "more hardcore" is not tricky. Loot abundance and enemy run speeds are probably the first things you want to change there and probably avoid doing a lot of quests because you will get a lot of cash and rewards from them.

[pApA^LeGBa]

On 7/26/2020 at 5:09 PM, calebelt said:

The game does not get harder if you remove loot and increase the number of zombies. You will spend more time on the extraction of resources.

I will still be able to build the cannon to get the iron and relax. I will still find, buy, and assemble 8 machine guns. I'll make a modification for them to fit more bullets. I will put these machine guns in all the fast slots and "survive". This is not survival, this is a sandbox where you sometimes have to hit a zombie with a strange electric stick. You can even remove all the zombies from this version of the game and not much will change.

Go and try the settings i suggested. Then tell me again how easy everything is. Please. If you can record it. It would love to see you struggle. No buying tough because no trader allowed.

[calebelt]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Go and try the settings i suggested. Then tell me again how easy everything is. Please. If you can record it. It would love to see you struggle. No buying tough because no trader allowed.

I have to make a video for You of me pumping a character with a wooden club and not picking up loot? This is very simple if you have played any dynamic game (Doom, Quake, l4d). But it's long and boring.

 

Early versions of the game were more complex and apocalyptic. Download version 15 for example and make sure.

4 hours ago, Gazz said:

Making the game "more hardcore" is not tricky. Loot abundance and enemy run speeds are probably the first things you want to change there and probably avoid doing a lot of quests because you will get a lot of cash and rewards from them.

The lack of loot does not affect the difficulty of the game.

Early versions of the game were more complex and apocalyptic. Download version 15 for example and make sure.

 

Why should developers cater to the weak players who started playing with the latest versions and forget about the strong players who have been playing with the earlier versions for many years?

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, calebelt said:

I have to make a video for You of me pumping a character with a wooden club and not picking up loot? This is very simple if you have played any dynamic game (Doom, Quake, l4d). But it's long and boring.

 

Early versions of the game were more complex and apocalyptic. Download version 15 for example and make sure.

The lack of loot does not affect the difficulty of the game.

Early versions of the game were more complex and apocalyptic. Download version 15 for example and make sure.

 

Why should developers cater to the weak players who started playing with the latest versions and forget about the strong players who have been playing with the earlier versions for many years?

Because if developers concentrate on the fewer hardcore players they would just have the money to finish a game in the size of A15 or less. So if TFP had done what you want, they would have had to publish A15 as the finished game. Now it is a nice coincidence that you like A15. Just play it, it is all TFP could afford in that other reality you want. 😃

 

 

[Gideon]

This is just a quick reply, and not intended to be snarky.

You have three options for a more hardcore game:

1) Adjusting your game settings.

2) Creating or installing an already created mod that changes parts of the game to your liking.

3) Play Project Zomboid.

 

I don't think stock 7 Days to Die is going to be the kind of game you are looking for.

[Boidster]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:05 AM, calebelt said:

The entire game should focus on chainsaw modifications.

 

 

 

[Ramethzer0]

On 7/28/2020 at 12:29 AM, calebelt said:

In games, you can make settings with checkboxes. Weak players will disable all difficulties.

In early versions of the game, they survived in the desert and wilderness. The rules of the game were more complicated than you can now set in the settings. When the bridge appeared, spare parts for it could only be found in rare air conditioners and shopping carts.

You can pine for the good old days all you want, but that's not part of the reality that is now.

[PoloPoPo]

I once thought as well that the default settings should exactly fit my demands and I posted some things here that look pretty funny to me nowadays. Was tired of hearing the same phrase over and over again about changing game settings. But it works. Basically you can set the game to a difficulty that seems unplayable to me. Besides short days, very frequent horde nights, least amount of loot etc. you can play only in more difficulty biomes like the snowy one. If that is not enough play with the rule "if you die the savegame is done" additionally.

 

There is your hardcore mode

[Ripstop]

On 7/28/2020 at 7:00 AM, calebelt said:

players who have been playing with the earlier versions for many years?

I'd say you've gotten your monies worth and it is time to move on. That you have so many hours in and are bored with the game supports this.

 

Most AAA games don't offer hundreds or thousands of hours of game play and usually charge up to triple the price for their meager experience.

[Scyris]

On 7/28/2020 at 3:13 AM, Biscoitoso said:

And whats the problem with people changing the settings to turn their games more easy? Whats the problem if they want play in creative? Or even without zombies? Or XP 300% and Loot 300%?

Its a game after all. The purpose of a game like this is to give fun to its players. If you like hardcore game, like me, just configure settings like you want, or play in servers with hard settings, if you dont, just easy the game. It is fair enough for all of us, hardcore and soft players. Dont try oblige all players play YOUR style of gameplay.

I would be very angry if someone came here and said that now, mandatorily, the maximum difficulty of the game would be easy and without bloodmoons just because there are people who hate bloodmoon. And I am sure you would be very angry just as me. So, if you dont like this idea, dont try forcer others play hardcore juts because you like.

And on top of that, there are players who dont have much time to play, they not are like me, who can play 4-8 hours in a single day and can go through a hardcore gameplaying. Some can play just 1 hour, or 30 min, but still like the game, still want play and need easy settings and easy looting to achieve high levels and high tier. Without the soft settings, these players will be locked at the stoneage forever. And no fun for all. Less players, less customers buiyng the game, and at the end: TFP droping the project and turning our beloved game abandoned.

I will stand by your side if you want TFP improve gameplay mechanics and add more hardcore OPTIONS to the game, but I will opose you if you want turn these options mandatory.

Think about that.

This is why I complained when they let zombies dig, if I wanna live in a hobo cave in the ground and avoid horde night, I should damn well be allowed to, its my gameplay, not that I did avoid the blood moons, I just dislike the SI system, most of my bases end up completly collapsing due to me placing 1 more block than I could. I really wish when that happens, it just drops the block you just placed, instead of the entire line of blocks or in some cases a cascade that takes out the entire thing. I used to make a base 25-30 blocks underground as it was more stable than trying to build my own base for me. Now zombies dig, and can swim faster than the player can, are better structural engineers than most players as they always know where the weak points of a structure is.

 

The devs keep removing choice from the player and quite frankly its pissing me off. The most recent way they removed choice was the a19 loot system, its super linear, and you are forced into a certain loot progression that quite frankly is complete garbage. Its too easy to get quality 5-6 items now, they are guarnteed once your above a certain gamestage, unlike a18 where even at high GS finding a quality 4-6 item was pretty rare. They also removed the randomness of loot, making every single game pretty much the exact same, which was a issue a17 had, since it lacked schematics, you were shoehorned into intel, or else you'd not be able to craft much of anything. They also took away learn by doing, which I would like to see come back for weapons and mining tools only, with the perks that sets what quality you can craft and the bonuses to it, based off of the skill level you have in the tool. Same perks A18/19 has, just instead of locked to stats, its locked to skill in that weapon type. I never cared for the idea of weapons being locked to stats.

 

All in all, I won't be playing a19 much unless the loot system gets reverted back to a18 with just the new items added to it, as I play dead is dead in my games, and a19 just is no fun to do this in as all the loot randomness has been removed pretty much, so every game is essentally the exact same now. 1 step forward 2-3 steps back is whats going on here pretty much.

 

 

[Dracula]

I think that a cluttered menu is an idiotic reason to not add as many adjustable features as possible.  I would like to see twice as many menu options so that people can make more choices and turn off things that they dislike so that they can best tailor the game to their preferences without mods.

 

A19 has been the Alpha that I have played the least since, apart from the graphic changes, the gated loot makes early game dull and the lack of a late game means that there's nothing to do when I have enough resources.  That's not a matter of difficulty; as I'd even gone so far as to turn up the difficulty to where it was nearly impossible; it was a challenge, but it wasn't fun.

 

It is as hardcore as you make it.

[Scyris]

3 minutes ago, Dracula said:

I think that a cluttered menu is an idiotic reason to not add as many adjustable features as possible.  I would like to see twice as many menu options so that people can make more choices and turn off things that they dislike so that they can best tailor the game to their preferences without mods.

 

A19 has been the Alpha that I have played the least since, apart from the graphic changes, the gated loot makes early game dull and the lack of a late game means that there's nothing to do when I have enough resources.  That's not a matter of difficulty; as I'd even gone so far as to turn up the difficulty to where it was nearly impossible; it was a challenge, but it wasn't fun.

 

It is as hardcore as you make it.

The graphic changes are nice, but graphics don't make a game good, a game can have the best graphics in the world and still be crap, its just crap with sprinkles and glitter on it then. Every since they announced the loot system for a19 I was worried because it sounded very limiting and very linear with no real variance what so ever. Sadly it ended up being ad bland and bad as I thought it would be, I mean the idea sounded ok on paper, but actually in game its horrible for gameplay.

[Biscoitoso]

15 minutes ago, Scyris said:

This is why I complained when they let zombies dig, if I wanna live in a hobo cave in the ground and avoid horde night, I should damn well be allowed to, its my gameplay, not that I did avoid the blood moons, I just dislike the SI system, most of my bases end up completly collapsing due to me placing 1 more block than I could. I really wish when that happens, it just drops the block you just placed, instead of the entire line of blocks or in some cases a cascade that takes out the entire thing. I used to make a base 25-30 blocks underground as it was more stable than trying to build my own base for me. Now zombies dig, and can swim faster than the player can, are better structural engineers than most players as they always know where the weak points of a structure is.

 

The devs keep removing choice from the player and quite frankly its pissing me off. The most recent way they removed choice was the a19 loot system, its super linear, and you are forced into a certain loot progression that quite frankly is complete garbage. Its too easy to get quality 5-6 items now, they are guarnteed once your above a certain gamestage, unlike a18 where even at high GS finding a quality 4-6 item was pretty rare. They also removed the randomness of loot, making every single game pretty much the exact same, which was a issue a17 had, since it lacked schematics, you were shoehorned into intel, or else you'd not be able to craft much of anything. They also took away learn by doing, which I would like to see come back for weapons and mining tools only, with the perks that sets what quality you can craft and the bonuses to it, based off of the skill level you have in the tool. Same perks A18/19 has, just instead of locked to stats, its locked to skill in that weapon type. I never cared for the item of weapons being locked to stats.

 

All in all, I won't be playing a19 much unless the loot system gets reverted back to a18 with just the new items added to it, as I play dead is dead in my games, and a19 just is no fun to do this in as all the loot randomness has been removed pretty much, so every game is essentally the exact same now. 1 step forward 2-3 steps back is whats going on here pretty much.

 

 

Man.. I totally agree with you!!! Miss the gold and old A-16.

[Scyris]

4 minutes ago, Biscoitoso said:

Man.. I totally agree with you!!! Miss the gold and old A-16.

Most players do, and TFP is being stuborne about bringing back the learn by doing that made A16 so memoriable, or part of the reason why it was anyway. Now I miss A18, because other than the graphical things, A18 was overall a much more fun entertaining game, and as I said, the new loot system removed most of the fun from the game for me, and apparently for quite a few others too, as most people that reply do not care for the new loot system in a19 either. They can revert it in a 19.x patch, just copy a18's loot system over (its just xml entries iirc), and add in the new things. Maybe tweak it so a bit harder to find higher technology tier things, but otherwise leave it like a18 was.