The eating requirement is breaking emersion

[Liesel Weppen]

2 hours ago, gurutar said:

the amount of animals is getting a huge nerf in the next patch.

That's not a nerf, that is just rolling back the exagregation they did with the last patch...

[FA_Q2]

14 hours ago, Lorca said:

So your take-away from watching that stream is that they're doing it wrong, rather than the game needs to be balanced because the common person struggles. Interesting.

More like the problem is that people go to a new alpha and think that playing the same way as the old alpha will work.  This was one of my original problems when A17 dropped and the game seemed like there were several bad things implemented.  After more introspection I discovered that a good portion of the problems I was having had nothing to do with the game or how a new player might approach it.  It had a lot to do with habits I had created over the last 1000 hours of play that I brought to A17 that simply no longer worked.

 

Being more cognoscente of that reality I now approach each new alpha as a separate game and try to actively squash old habits that may no longer work.  I find this relives a LOT of problems I may have had.  In 19, NOT eating every single can of food I find straight away is one of those habits I dropped immediately and is likely one of the reasons that I have had zero issues with the new hunger system.

 

If you play a new alpha like the last alpha there will be serious problems you run into.

13 hours ago, Boidster said:

I just tested this. From what I could tell, movement does affect food drain in a vehicle.

 

Activity	Seconds to 1st Food Point Lost
Standing Still	50
Sitting on Motorcycle (not moving)	50
Driving Motorcycle at standard speed	47
Driving Motorcycle at high speed	42

 

Thank you for actually testing this.  I stand corrected.

 

Interesting that speed effects it as well.  

[Solomon]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:06 PM, myrkana said:

I mean it is pretty realistic. If you do a labor intensive activity like mining stone and metal with a hand pickaxe you will need more calories to keep up. The game shows that by making it be points in hunger.  People who do severely labor intensive activities tend to eat huge calorie filled meals, the game just spreads that out instead of setting 2 or 3 points in the day where you're hungry.

I can work 4 hours physically intense work, eat 2 slices of grilled meat and a piece of boiled potato and be good for another 4 hours.

 

From what i see the problem here is that most food dont actually fill you up but only offer some minuscule percentage of filling. A whole can of spaghetti is usually 1 serving what can fill you in real life but here its only good for barely 30 minutes ingame time if you actively do something like mining.

[Liesel Weppen]

2 hours ago, Solomon said:

From what i see the problem here is that most food dont actually fill you up but only offer some minuscule percentage of filling. A whole can of spaghetti is usually 1 serving what can fill you in real life but here its only good for barely 30 minutes ingame time if you actively do something like mining.

Discussing in circles... that was already mentioned at least twice on every previous page. 🙄

 

7d2d is nor realistic neither an real-life-eating-simulator. Eating and food is not based on realism, it's a just a gameplay balance. If a can of spaghetti will fill you up for a whole day, what should a hobo stew than do? Fill you up for 3 days? Why even cook, if one simple can feeds for a whole day? And even if it would be like this, drops of canned food need to be drastically reduced. There SHALL be a food struggle. You have to search for food. It's meant to be low in the beginning and there needs to be a reason to improve food capabilities. If one can feeds you a whole day, you basically can remove master chef and all further cooking completely, why not even remove the food system entirely? And then be at least consequent and also remove the "survival" from the games subtitle.

 

If so many people are starving all the time, increase the droprate of cans (and eggs), or decrease food usage by stamina regen a little, but don't make one can feed you 50 food!

If you dislike the requirement of eating that much in the game, mod it. Either make one can give you food for 10 days or if possible mod out all the eating.

 

And oh yeah, again "30 minutes ingame time"... so with the default 60 minute days that's 75 seconds. I never manged to burn 15 food in 75 seconds. Not even nearly. Not even if i do mining while jumping all the time.

[Boidster]

6 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

7d2d is nor realistic neither an real-life-eating-simulator.

Best part of ARK: real-life pooping simulator.

[Solomon]

20 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

7d2d is nor realistic neither an real-life-eating-simulator. Eating and food is not based on realism, it's a just a gameplay balance. If a can of spaghetti will fill you up for a whole day, what should a hobo stew than do? Fill you up for 3 days? Why even cook, if one simple can feeds for a whole day? And even if it would be like this, drops of canned food need to be drastically reduced. There SHALL be a food struggle. You have to search for food. It's meant to be low in the beginning and there needs to be a reason to improve food capabilities. If one can feeds you a whole day, you basically can remove master chef and all further cooking completely, why not even remove the food system entirely? And then be at least consequent and also remove the "survival" from the games subtitle.

What would a hobo stew do? Well the same.

 

If we argue realism we can say that you are not making more than 1 serving of the hobo stew so eating 1 means you are full for 3-5 ingame hours. If the recipe is 3 serving that means the said stew can fill you up for a whole day ingame but thats it.

[Lorca]

23 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Discussing in circles... that was already mentioned at least twice on every previous page. 🙄

 

Maybe its mentioned so many times because its a valid argument that several people feel the same way.  Or maybe it has to be reiterated over and over because you won't let people have their opinions. 

[meganoth]

 

4 hours ago, Solomon said:

What would a hobo stew do? Well the same.

 

If we argue realism we can say that you are not making more than 1 serving of the hobo stew so eating 1 means you are full for 3-5 ingame hours. If the recipe is 3 serving that means the said stew can fill you up for a whole day ingame but thats it.

 

The devs said multiple times that Gameplay trumps realism. Try to bring up a realism arguement to Gazz and I promise you he will just make fun of your argument. Bring a gameplay reason something is not working and you actually have a change to get heard

 

Gameplay trumps realism. And that is why cans give so little food and hobo stew so much. 

 

1 hour ago, Lorca said:

Maybe its mentioned so many times because its a valid argument that several people feel the same way.  Or maybe it has to be reiterated over and over because you won't let people have their opinions. 

 

If you post on the forum you have to accept hearing others with different opinions. If you think that is reason to spam your opinion you'll only land in ignore lists.

 

By the way, are you still unaware that animals spawns are already tuned down again in the next patch? Because your post in the dev dairy makes it obvious that you seem to have missed all helpful replies and are still making points that are no longer valid.

 

[Bashtiks]

Yes new hunger system is a bit annoying, but I somehow can cope with that. Each poi offers plenty of shelves to find some food cans and if ur lucky can find some meat stew too. Early game its possible to buy some food off vending machines. 

 

As for realism, well if i where to run around irl with a axe or sledge all day then I definetly would need minimum 2 big meals a day. In game  i do that and For 24h i eat 2 meat stews .. so seams quite realistc to me ..

[Liesel Weppen]

6 hours ago, Solomon said:

If we argue realism we can say that you are not making more than 1 serving of the hobo stew so eating 1 means you are full for 3-5 ingame hours. If the recipe is 3 serving that means the said stew can fill you up for a whole day ingame but thats it.

As said, realism is not the point.

And one "serving" is already enough for 3-5 ingame hours, even just a can of spaghetti. A hobo stew will almost bring you through a whole day. If you do hard work you may need two. It's about four times the value of good cans. It is twice the value of bacon & eggs. That comes from the ingredients needed to make them. That applies to all meals. Cooking them turns out a more valuable meal than eating the raw ingredients.

 

The tuna toast gives 90 food, so one fills almost the whole hunger bar. It requires a can of tuna, a can of peas, cornmeal, cornbread and fat. That's why you should save the cans and go for cooking (or the receipes) if you don't want to eat a mini-can every 3 hours. That's a survival aspect. It's not just shooting zombies.

 

If you now say you can eat one meal equaling three servings at one time and that filles you up three times as long, where is the realism? Do you have a stomach as big as a bear? Maybe for realism they should reintroduce the vomitting if you overeat to much? 😛

[hotpoon]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

The devs said multiple times that Gameplay trumps realism. Try to bring up a realism arguement to Gazz and I promise you he will just make fun of your argument. Bring a gameplay reason something is not working and you actually have a change to get heard

 

Gameplay trumps realism. And that is why cans give so little food and hobo stew so much. 

 

 

If you post on the forum you have to accept hearing others with different opinions. If you think that is reason to spam your opinion you'll only land in ignore lists.

 

By the way, are you still unaware that animals spawns are already tuned down again in the next patch? Because your post in the dev dairy makes it obvious that you seem to have missed all helpful replies and are still making points that are no longer valid.

 

I'm with Lorca on this one.  The only person spamming their opinion is Liezel. She's been arguing the same thing with each person who has brought up the issue in this thread.  And you have been a vocal advocate of more difficult survival aspects from since before you were a mod, so I think you might have a little conflict of interest here.

 

Both of you keeping harping on about how realism isn't a factor, but we all know that is is to a point.  A game with zombies requires imagination, and of course, some aspects must be gamified to make it less tedious, but we are still on earth and nobody eats that much food in one sitting.  Well, I won't say nobody.  There's those people who eat a table full of burgers at eating competitions, and maybe Michael Phelps, but the average Joe certainly doesn't.  It is not fun at all. It is stupid in fact. And the minute I find someone who will make a mod to reduce food drainage, I'm on it.

But I'm done with this thread now. Sorry Lorca, it's up to you now.

[meganoth]

31 minutes ago, hotpoon said:

I'm with Lorca on this one.  The only person spamming their opinion is Liezel. She's been arguing the same thing with each person who has brought up the issue in this thread.  And you have been a vocal advocate of more difficult survival aspects from since before you were a mod, so I think you might have a little conflict of interest here.

 

Both of you keeping harping on about how realism isn't a factor, but we all know that is is to a point.  A game with zombies requires imagination, and of course, some aspects must be gamified to make it less tedious, but we are still on earth and nobody eats that much food in one sitting.  Well, I won't say nobody.  There's those people who eat a table full of burgers at eating competitions, and maybe Michael Phelps, but the average Joe certainly doesn't.  It is not fun at all. It is stupid in fact. And the minute I find someone who will make a mod to reduce food drainage, I'm on it.

But I'm done with this thread now. Sorry Lorca, it's up to you now.

"not fun at all" is actually a reason the devs might listen to. That is all the point I was making.

 

And I post my opinion not as a mod but as a normal user. I told him he would probably land on filter lists of indivudual users, which has nothing to do with moderation.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

And I post my opinion not as a mod but as a normal user. I told him he would probably land on filter lists of indivudual users, which has nothing to do with moderation.

You told me? Haven't seen that. But it's ok, if people put me on their filter list. That's what it is made for. I use it also.

[meganoth]

1 minute ago, Liesel Weppen said:

You told me? Haven't seen that. But it's ok, if people put me on their filter list. That's what it is made for. I use it also.

Told Lorca

[Ralathar44]

1 hour ago, hotpoon said:

I'm with Lorca on this one.  The only person spamming their opinion is Liezel. She's been arguing the same thing with each person who has brought up the issue in this thread.  And you have been a vocal advocate of more difficult survival aspects from since before you were a mod, so I think you might have a little conflict of interest here.

 

Both of you keeping harping on about how realism isn't a factor, but we all know that is is to a point.  A game with zombies requires imagination, and of course, some aspects must be gamified to make it less tedious, but we are still on earth and nobody eats that much food in one sitting.  Well, I won't say nobody.  There's those people who eat a table full of burgers at eating competitions, and maybe Michael Phelps, but the average Joe certainly doesn't.  It is not fun at all. It is stupid in fact. And the minute I find someone who will make a mod to reduce food drainage, I'm on it.

But I'm done with this thread now. Sorry Lorca, it's up to you now.

Most people on earth don't stay awake 24 hours a day, never get a cold sick, never get exhausted, carry thousands of lbs of stuff, heal broken legs in a day, etc.   So how do you explain all of these feats?  Our Player character is plainly not a normal human.  They are superhuman.  And it makes sense considering their capabilities that their metabolism would be much higher than normal.

IMO the main problem is a perceptual one, canned food went from being god tier food to being tier 1 in just a few updates and people are experiencing friction as they adjust.  It's a rather alrge gameplay adjustment that has happened fairly quickly.  Treat canned food like you do grilled meat.  You're intended to survive off of recipes.  Either skill into master chef or just survive long enough to find recipes in the wild or on the trader.  Canned food is tier 1 food when eaten on it's own, but when used in it's own recipes it becomes top tier.  There are multiple recipes that offer over 100 hunger satiation.  Your food problems should very quickly go away, especially now that we cannot throw up anymore.

[gcomerfo]

So many posts, can't read them all, but maybe some of you agree with me...

 

Yes, too much eating - exactly. You are supposed to spec into Perks to either eat less, or gain more meat, or grow more vegs, or make hardier stews to cook.  That is what perks are for.  OR... you can buy the Trader and Vendor good foods, if you don't want to spec.  I mean, that is the point of Perks!

 

You know what breaks the "immersion" for me??  people who keep whining about their "immersion" getting broke!  LOL  Use the Perks dingle-heads!

 

I have so much food that I can't eat it all!!   And I don't have any Farm Perks, and only one level of Huntsman, or the one that harvest more meat.  What are you people, like total snow-flakes??

[Boidster]

Replace the canned foods, which are all the low-level, barely surviving stuff with "handful of berries" and "four crackers with moldy cheese" and people will stop carping. This is like the great sealed crate kerfluffle. People see the in-game character eat four cans of peas and instead of understanding that the game requires a range of food quality and canned foods are low quality, they think about literally eating four cans of peas IRL and say "that isn't fun."

 

TFP needs to change the labels so people who can't see why the game acts like a game will instead see something "realistic". Like a half-finished Sham-A-Lama Ding Dong. Exact same identical game mechanics, including availability in vending machines. Just change the names so people stop complaining.

[gcomerfo]

I have an idea...

 

Instead of whining about the food, and the fact that you didn't use the Perks, Traders, etc. to your advantage...

 

Just go mod the game how you want it, and let The Fun Pimps balance the game that they want to play.  You can mod the game into Pokeman, or Easy Peasy Non-Pocalypse, Minecraft endless farm, if you want!  Try that instead!

 

Let the rest of us actually play the game that was meant to challenge your resource and time mangement, and ability to customize your Perks, and buy critical items at a Trading Post.

[gcomerfo]

Wait!  This just in...

 

Trader Joel is now offering a Food Assistance Program, where you can acquire Food Stamps for being such a Wuss, but then you have to go and fetch his coffee, do his dishes, and clean his Terlet and can't leave the compound until you work off your Trader Joel Food Stamps. 

 

After leaving the Trader compound, you will get s "Shame" Debuff for 1 game day, until you can learn to survive.  Zombies will leave you alone out of pity for your lazy @%$*#!.

[Zombie be like]

"Look.. Braiiiinnss!...mmmmmmm" 

"Wah, nooooo... Lazzzzeeee Braiiinnnssss!  No Taste as Good!"

[Jeraal]

14 minutes ago, gcomerfo said:

Wait!  This just in...

 

Trader Joel is now offering a Food Assistance Program, where you can acquire Food Stamps for being such a Wuss, but then you have to go and fetch his coffee, do his dishes, and clean his Terlet and can't leave the compound until you work off your Trader Joel Food Stamps. 

 

After leaving the Trader compound, you will get s "Shame" Debuff for 1 game day, until you can learn to survive.  Zombies will leave you alone out of pity for your lazy @%$*#!.

[Zombie be like]

"Look.. Braiiiinnss!...mmmmmmm" 

"Wah, nooooo... Lazzzzeeee Braiiinnnssss!  No Taste as Good!"

When rational thought fails, resort to childlike insults.

[FileMachete]

Ya know, for 7dtd & TFPs I think you're onto something @Boidster. The cans icons are quite misleading. The Beef/Chicken/Lamb ones in particulr; they look bigger than a 'normal' ~15oz can, which the Chili looks like.

 

Don't think I've ever eaten a can of Peas in my life, but have eaten a lot of canned chili, and a can of Dennisons at least used to be (until a few years back, now it sucks) a full meal.

---

This'll never happen in 7dtd but the one "food system" that to me could be both a real struggle and not simply a pita would be _more_ realism, not less.

Hear me out. The old real world; 3-minutes, 3-days, 30-days bit.

Would guess a lot of folks have seen a Naked & Afraid or Alone episode. The folks are usually starving the whole time.

If starving in-game took 10+ days then canned food could be -really- rare, it'd be a better find than an AK, heh.

Also then a Deer could give several days worth of food, and also be rare enough that you'd instantly stop whatever you were doing to chase it down.

Gradually lower Stamina, and Run speed as the player gets hungrier and hungrier.

Cooking Pots aka water purifier could also become the early games single most important find because dying of dehydration would be the real first few days threat.

 

Change over to that kind of long-game mechanic would/could be a lot more impactful, and for a longer period, than what I've read about a19's eating & how it seems fairly straight forward, at least for those that have either adapted or have read something like this thread.

 

Additional bonus would be that it'd be easier to explain, and, since it would match rw, should be more intuitive.

 

Just my .02 cents.

[Ralathar44]

1 hour ago, FileMachete said:

Ya know, for 7dtd & TFPs I think you're onto something @Boidster. The cans icons are quite misleading. The Beef/Chicken/Lamb ones in particulr; they look bigger than a 'normal' ~15oz can, which the Chili looks like.

 

Don't think I've ever eaten a can of Peas in my life, but have eaten a lot of canned chili, and a can of Dennisons at least used to be (until a few years back, now it sucks) a full meal.

For normal people prolly, but for the super human player character we control prolly not :P.  I'm pretty sure if I could carry literal tons at a time, operate at full efficiency without ever sleeping, fall dozens of feet to the ground and land without injury, and heal life threatening injuries with minimal medical care that I'd also have much higher caloric requirements.

People use their own real life examples of eating constantly as an example of how there is a disconnect, but I'll accept that when people share their own real life examples of all the superhuman activities our character does without a similar disconnect.

[JCrook1028]

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

Replace the canned foods, which are all the low-level, barely surviving stuff with "handful of berries" and "four crackers with moldy cheese" and people will stop carping. This is like the great sealed crate kerfluffle. People see the in-game character eat four cans of peas and instead of understanding that the game requires a range of food quality and canned foods are low quality, they think about literally eating four cans of peas IRL and say "that isn't fun."

 

TFP needs to change the labels so people who can't see why the game acts like a game will instead see something "realistic". Like a half-finished Sham-A-Lama Ding Dong. Exact same identical game mechanics, including availability in vending machines. Just change the names so people stop complaining.

But the cans are ingredients in recipes. I shudder to see the recipe that includes "four crackers with moldy cheese" . Also, we already have 2 different kinds of berries.

[Scyris]

The food is fine, stop being lazy and go loot, or use vending machines or traders, the devs caved though, you now get daily animals for poor/lazy players. Day 1 was a tad harder than normal but by day 2 in my first a19 game? I had more food than I know what to do with. Between buying off trader, vending machines, and doing tier 1 buried supplies quests. I tend to prioritize block damage and getting food as my day 1 task, get str to 3, then miner 69'er to 3 asap. So busting into things/digging for the treasures is much easier, give it a shot on a new game. You don't really need the weapon skills much till your dealing with ferals mostly, a wooden club/stone sldge or blunderbuss is enough for most normal zombies, or rather all of em. I do fear wolves though, they are FAR more dangerious than zombies and have much more hp than the 125/150 non-feral/fatties have. Which in a19, on day 16, I still don't really get ferals in poi's yet and I am level 30+. Day 7/14 horde, can be fought in pretty much any poi with a tiny bit of work removing stairs and such. I fought them inside a poi with 1 cobblestone block between me and them. I just repaired it as they damaged it, and I never got hit once standing 2-2.5 blocks away from the zombies.

 

Oh also, I have never taken the iron stomach perk or anything that reduces food or water use, never felt it was ever needed, and still is not needed in a19.

On 7/13/2020 at 4:30 PM, Maladon said:

If I stand perfectly still and just watch my food meter I lose 1 food every 130 seconds. Is that how it's supposed to work?

The body naturally uses energy just to function even if your just standing there irl. if it didn't you'd not die of starvation as you'd not need food.

Also, if the common player is having issues. the solution is to well. git gud, you can do fine in a19 with no -food/water use perks, there is so many sources of food its stupid. Catering to them and not having them learn is never going to make them, get better as a player.

[Scyris]

I also feel its kinda silly we need a perk or schematic to grill or boil meat, its not hard to boil meat in a pot, or toss it on a grill till its cooked, doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that, these recipes should be unlocked by default, same for bacon n eggs. I usually just survive on charred meat for a while, since water is never ever a problem.