The eating requirement is breaking emersion

[Liesel Weppen]

28 minutes ago, Lorca said:

I have to chug every can I find in every kitchen, and my dude has still got belly ache.  Complete overkill and not fun.

Cans are the low end food in 7d2d.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Lorca said:

Sure that mighta been true, but dammit, come up with a carrot reason to eat better, not a stick reason.

If i' demand: Pleaaaaaase make zombies weaker, because at gamestage 150 my unskilled stone spear is barely able to kill a radiated!

 

What would be your answer?

I guess something like: Dude, at gamestage 150 you should not be without skills and also not use a low end weapon anymore!

 

No apply the same to food. You stick with the low end stuff and complain that it is not that good.

[Lorca]

1 hour ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Cans are the low end food in 7d2d.

 

 

If i' demand: Pleaaaaaase make zombies weaker, because at gamestage 150 my unskilled stone spear is barely able to kill a radiated!

 

What would be your answer?

I guess something like: Dude, at gamestage 150 you should not be without skills and also not use a low end weapon anymore!

 

No apply the same to food. You stick with the low end stuff and complain that it is not that good.

Doesn't matter to me whether they are @%$*#! tier or god tier, canned food is all I got, and the ratio of what I eat to my hunger is off by a lot.  The games got zombies, so I don't expect this to be a sim, but it must be partially based in reality for any kind of immersion.  That is the point the OP is ultimately making. It's not realistic to eat that much food and not be full.  As for the other bit of your quote, it irrelevant because by the time you reach radiated zombies, you have better weapons.  I'm talking about a starting position. But whatever buddy.

[Novamourne]

My two biggest complaints with the game at the moment is that your character has to eat like a hog to survive and stamina drain, tool usage and sprinting, is completely out of control.

Early game you can do literally nothing that doesn't reward you with food because otherwise you will starve. In higher game stages you start finding the good food in POIs and it's less of an issue but hunger is definitely not balanced for game play that feels good right now.

And on the stamina note, there is just way too much "waiting" going on. You swing your axe 5-6 times and then sit there for 15 seconds. It promotes lack of focus and breaks the player off from game play too often for too long. Whoever at the Funpimps has the hard on for the extreme stamina drain needs a good stern talking to - this is definitely not a fun way to play.

[Palad1n]

The being able to break through solid rock with stone axe and iron / steel tools so easily is breaking my immersion. I mean, hunger aside, what where they thinking! /sarcasm

 

It amazes me how much complaining goes on regarding simple hunger / thirst mechanics, when you can find the right combination of foods / drinks to establish what is called "efficient digestion" for a good period of time, slowing down your hunger/thirst. 

 

Now if you are going to be doing activities such as mining, that expends a great deal of energy, and I believe the system works with this in mind. Folks need to invest some time learning how the cooking system works, how to implement it with a little effort to get through major exertion, or healing.

 

This is a game first and foremost, so stop expecting certain mechanics be made easier when the game is a walk in the part on the most challenging settings once you understand these basics, and have some time under your belt playing and learning A19.  

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Novamourne said:

My two biggest complaints with the game at the moment is that your character has to eat like a hog to survive and stamina drain, tool usage and sprinting, is completely out of control.

You clearly did not play the early versions of A17

 

Compared to A17 the stamina drain is no big issue. The biggest problems have the players who lived exclusively on canned food in A18. As soon as you know at least of the better recipes, the problem with the food is over. For example, a plate of spaghetti gives you over 120 food. Gambo Stew is also extremely nutritious.

 

My tip to everyone is to invest a point in Master Chef right at the beginning and start planting a garden as early as possible.
 

[Dracula]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

My tip to everyone is to invest a point in Master Chef right at the beginning and start planting a garden as early as possible.
 

I would like to see this made easier by the return of the garden hoe/tillable soil to produce low-yield farms so that you can plant a few things that would provide basic sustenance while you go out and raid for supplies; perhaps locking yield to a single food item per plant and require farm plots for more efficient farming so that it's not a scramble to find the materials to make a farm plot, seeds, etc.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

You clearly did not play the early versions of A17

 

Compared to A17 the stamina drain is no big issue. The biggest problems have the players who lived exclusively on canned food in A18. As soon as you know at least of the better recipes, the problem with the food is over. For example, a plate of spaghetti gives you over 120 food. Gambo Stew is also extremely nutritious.

 

My tip to everyone is to invest a point in Master Chef right at the beginning and start planting a garden as early as possible.
 

It isn't quite as easy as that since you also need the seeds, and for quantities you need the recipe itself to produce the seeds. Until that time you have to eat a lot of canned food (and soon more grilled/boiled meat as animals have been boosted). I think the critics here are talking about that early time which can easily take you more than 10 days.

 

My advice would be to invest 2 points in living of the land if you want to shorten that duration. Because many recipes use the same few ingredients (potato and corn being the most important) those two are showstoppers. One point in Master Chef will give you the important bacon and eggs and the tea recipes, they make surviving easier the first days, but don't help you with shortening that phase.

 

My advice for everyone who thinks this is too hard: You probably have been playing your very first A19 world now and were surprised by the changes and had to learn to adapt. Happened to me as well. Even if TFP had not changed anything (which they have already done-> more animals) you would not have that much problems in your next playthrough because you learned what to avoid and what is important. Even small changes (not running overburdened) can make a huge difference in the long run.

 

Survival is part of the game. If you just want a zombie shooter and nothing else, mod it or use creative menue to give you a starting boost.

55 minutes ago, Dracula said:

I would like to see this made easier by the return of the garden hoe/tillable soil to produce low-yield farms so that you can plant a few things that would provide basic sustenance while you go out and raid for supplies; perhaps locking yield to a single food item per plant and require farm plots for more efficient farming so that it's not a scramble to find the materials to make a farm plot, seeds, etc.

There were technical limits for removing tillable soil. Limits to do with the black box graphics engine they are using and improvements that were more important to TFP than tillable soil. Maybe a future update of Unity or who knows, other changes in the game lift that limit again, but until then...

 

[Maladon]

I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible to deal with the food mechanics. What people are saying is that dealing with the new adjustments isn't fun. And they're right.

[warmer]

Now on Day 21. I have leveled up a few skills related to food acquisition and efficient intake. Guess what? Food isn't an issue anymore. 

 

Early game it is certainly a pain in the @%$*#!. Now that I am level 16 and have several helpful skills related to food (don't under estimate the power of living off the land, iron gut, and master chef) I eat/drink once a day to a bit overfull and I am good almost the entire 60min day. Longer days require more food because you can exert yourself more in the same amount of "game time."

 

It is how you play the game. If don't level up your basic survival skills, and mostly focus on attack stuff your game will be much harder in regards to food and drink. I personally level up Masterchef, Iron Gut, and Living off the Land with my initial tutorial quest points EVERY TIME. If you don't do this early, the game is A LOT hard in regard to basic sustenance.

[JCrook1028]

9 hours ago, hotpoon said:

You're probably right, but again that would feel like a waste of points to me. Especially with progression slowed down, I don't want to feel forced into putting points into survival areas rather than the areas I primarily play the game for.  If it points were easy to come by, it wouldn't bother me so much.
  

 

 

A Survival game requires some Survival skills - jus sayin'

4 hours ago, Novamourne said:

 You swing your axe 5-6 times and then sit there for 15 seconds. It promotes lack of focus and breaks the player off from game play too often for too long.

Stop trying to use iron or steel tools before you are ready for them and you won't have that problem.

[hotpoon]

3 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

A Survival game requires some Survival skills - jus sayin'

I've been playing since A12, and also have literally thousands of hours in Ark, so this isn't my first rodeo, thank you.  I'm not saying those perks need to be eliminated. It's good they are there, but I shouldn't be forced to perk into them just to get by.  Perking into them should make already manageable survival easy, not unmanageable survival manageable. Food drainage needs to be toned down. This isn't JUST a survival game.  It's also crafting, shooting and looting...tower defense in a way.  It has lots of aspects which right now are being dominated by the survival angle.  Balance is what I'm asking for.

[RestInPieces]

27 minutes ago, hotpoon said:

I've been playing since A12, and also have literally thousands of hours in Ark, so this isn't my first rodeo, thank you.  I'm not saying those perks need to be eliminated. It's good they are there, but I shouldn't be forced to perk into them just to get by.  Perking into them should make already manageable survival easy, not unmanageable survival manageable. Food drainage needs to be toned down. This isn't JUST a survival game.  It's also crafting, shooting and looting...tower defense in a way.  It has lots of aspects which right now are being dominated by the survival angle.  Balance is what I'm asking for.

Dominated? Survival was always an afterthought. Temperatures? Plenty of solutions out of the box. It is more of a small annoyance anyway the way it has been implemented. Weather? What weather. Diseases/Injuries? Nothing too threatening, plenty of materials for medicine and even if there weren't the DP is almost negligible. Food? You can just get by with meat -- plenty of animals. Will be annoying but you can make it less annoying with 1 point in master chef. Balance? How much time do you spend doing each of the aspects of the game you mention VS survival preparations? I certainly find myself spending the least amount of time for it. 

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Maladon said:

I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible to deal with the food mechanics. What people are saying is that dealing with the new adjustments isn't fun. And they're right.

 

Without a challenge to overcome there is boredom. I have lots of fun with this challenge.

 

52 minutes ago, hotpoon said:

I've been playing since A12, and also have literally thousands of hours in Ark, so this isn't my first rodeo, thank you.  I'm not saying those perks need to be eliminated. It's good they are there, but I shouldn't be forced to perk into them just to get by.  Perking into them should make already manageable survival easy, not unmanageable survival manageable. Food drainage needs to be toned down. This isn't JUST a survival game.  It's also crafting, shooting and looting...tower defense in a way.  It has lots of aspects which right now are being dominated by the survival angle.  Balance is what I'm asking for.

The balance is that survival dominates your first 5-12 days, on day 25 there is no survival part anymore.

 

[Maladon]

4 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Without a challenge to overcome there is boredom. I have lots of fun with this challenge.

 

I guess the challenge I'm looking for is more zombie related.

[meganoth]

4 minutes ago, Maladon said:

I guess the challenge I'm looking for is more zombie related.

As I said, if you just want a zombie shooter and nothing else, mod it or use creative menue to give you a starting boost. Because this game is more than a zombie shooter

 

[Novamourne]

4 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Stop trying to use iron or steel tools before you are ready for them and you won't have that problem.

Why is the game awarding you things you're not supposed to be using? When is one ready for steel tools? I've got two attribute trees at 10 and I still spend too much of my time standing around waiting for my stamina to return. I think your off here and I stand by my statement.

[Maladon]

41 minutes ago, meganoth said:

As I said, if you just want a zombie shooter and nothing else, mod it or use creative menue to give you a starting boost. Because this game is more than a zombie shooter

 

Yes they've placed an emphasis on one of the most annoying parts of the game. We're playing a food service simulator with some zombies thrown in and if you're up for it you can build yourself a nice base to rez in after you starve to death 😄

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Maladon said:

Yes they've placed an emphasis on one of the most annoying parts of the game. We're playing a food service simulator with some zombies thrown in and if you're up for it you can build yourself a nice base to rez in after you starve to death 😄

Exactly. And I command you to like it 😉

 

1 hour ago, Novamourne said:

Why is the game awarding you things you're not supposed to be using? When is one ready for steel tools? I've got two attribute trees at 10 and I still spend too much of my time standing around waiting for my stamina to return. I think your off here and I stand by my statement.

Since the attribute trees don't help with digging you could have them at 20 and it wouldn't help you. How about telling us what your level is in sexrex and miner69? Are you drinking coffee or blackstrap while digging?

 

[Novamourne]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

If the attribute trees don't help with digging you could have them at 20 and it wouldn't help you. How about telling us what your level is in sexrex and miner69? Are you trinking coffee or blackstrap while digging?

Your question suggests that only one skill tree should enjoy being able to play the game and not sit and stare at their screen for half the time they are mining or using tools.

I'm not advocating for everyone to have infinite stamina, but I am saying that it's currently breaks immersion for too long and too often for anyone not spec'd into those skills. Without those skills, you will spend almost 50/50 on time you are actually using the tool and time that you're waiting for stamina to use the tool. That's way too much idle time.

[meganoth]

20 minutes ago, Novamourne said:

Your question suggests that only one skill tree should enjoy being able to play the game and not sit and stare at their screen for half the time they are mining or using tools.

I'm not advocating for everyone to have infinite stamina, but I am saying that it's currently breaks immersion for too long and too often for anyone not spec'd into those skills. Without those skills, you will spend almost 50/50 on time you are actually using the tool and time that you're waiting for stamina to use the tool. That's way too much idle time.

Big surprise that mining depends on the mining skills. Like stealth depends on the stealth skills, who are as well under one specific attribute. If a stealther doesn't learn them or uses heavy armor because that metal looks better on him he will wake up a lot of zombies too early (actually he often doesn't because zombie detection range still needs some work) and not kill them on first shot and not have the complete stealth package. For example he can't one-hit kill a sleeper with a machete because he doesn't get near enough.

 

In my current game I am on day 21 and have put one point in miner69 and sexrex. I still use a stone axe for wood and stone, don't do much digging but collect resource piles in POIs. I built a small horde base that had no problem with the day 21 horde (though I died because I f** up royally at the end). I didn't even use coffee yet. Are my mining skills enough together with buying some stuff from the trader? We'll see. But at the moment it doesn't look as if I needed to spec into STR asap in that game.

 

If you needed to go full into STR, i.e perk up to STR 10, to be good at mining I would be concerned too. But it sounds more like 6-8 points distributed in 2-3 perks already make you perfectly able to handle steel tools. And besides, there are auger and chainsaw too.

 

 

[Ralathar44]

I tunneled through a mountain with a stone axe and stone shovel with zero points in mining.  I ate food, but it was still only like once or twice a day and I mined for like a good 10+ minutes without needing to eat again easily.  I feel like there is some discrepancy causing some people to use more food than others.  I'll look into doing some testing tomorrow in a creative mode fresh game.

[Diggs]

Hunger is absolutely @%$*#!ed with this patch. Immaterial if it happens to everyone all the time. Hunger is broken. I could run and do activities with relatively no depletion then, stand still minutes later and watch it drop. It is absolutely broken in MP with this patch.     

 

* Why in the hell would the word 'b u g g e r e d' be treated like a curse word??? FFS, that's not even in the patch.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Diggs said:

Hunger is absolutely @%$*#!ed with this patch. Immaterial if it happens to everyone all the time. Hunger is broken. I could run and do activities with relatively no depletion then, stand still minutes later and watch it drop. It is absolutely broken in MP with this patch.     

 

* Why in the hell would the word 'b u g g e r e d' be treated like a curse word??? FFS, that's not even in the patch.

It is definitely possible that there is some bug involved. If it is no exxageration that you are standing still doing nothing and it drops then that is definitely a bug (as standing still should cost 0 stamina). Please make a bug report if you see that. Just hit F9 a few times (which makes a screenshot you will find in 7 Days to Die\Screenshots) and add these pictures to the bug report together with your logfile.

 

[FA_Q2]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:45 AM, hotpoon said:

You've missed the point a little bit there.  My statement doesn't negate anything.  I don't want to feel forced into putting points into certain areas of the the skill tree.  I'm sure that's not what the Fun Pimps want either. They want a variety of builds. if everyone has to spec into survival parts of the game, then why have an open skill tree at all? 

 

The food drainage needs balancing in my opinion.  Clearly not for you.  You're loving it, and loving arguing with everyone that doesn't.  Which brings me to the point that if I was the only one complaining, you could maybe pull the "playing the game wrong" card, but with so many people complaining, it's clearly a balance issue.  Nobody owes you a video or squat for that matter. You're not on the dev team, and you're not the overseer of how people should play.  Maybe just let people give feedback on balancing issues so the devs can make their own call.  You can give your own feedback to the contrary without hassling each person on the thread.

Points in those areas certainly are not necessary.  I don't speck into any of them and have no problems with food at all past day 3 at the latest.  

 

Don't eat canned food for starters - it is a wast if it can be used in any recipe.  Do the buried treasure quests to start - you will get at least one effective recipe in those chest that will take care of food for the rest of the game or at least until you find a better recipe.

 

If you are feeling that those points into survival skills are that vital then yes, that is exactly what the devs are going for.  They want point selection to be meaningful.  It is not meaningful if you put them wherever you want without feeling like you are sacrificing something.  You may not like that balance but that is what they are going for.  I feel the same about the strength attribute and mining.  Those skills are damn near mandatory for my play style and yet I really hate spending a single point in strength.

[Liesel Weppen]

22 hours ago, warmer said:

I personally level up Masterchef, Iron Gut, and Living off the Land with my initial tutorial quest points EVERY TIME.

I usually put my tutorial points into

• sex rex to reduce stamina use with weapons and tools
• Cardio for better running
• healing factor for being able to recover HP passively
• Lucky looter for better loot

The first 2-3 days are also good survivable with canned food.

Further gameplay depends. Hopefully the trader has burried supplies. They give you food and receips. Always hoping for the bacon & eggs receipe.

The first days i spend dukes to the trader and the vending machines for food. One burried supplies gives 560 dukes. The cans cost 20 dukes per 5 food, so with the first burried supplies you have enough dukes to buy for 140 food. I never needed to make boiled eggs or grilled meat. If i'm still short, i could do that additionally.

 

Next levelup point then goes into Miner 69er for duing burried supplies faster.

 

Burried supplies quests are mandatory. They don't give you anything you don't need. Cans, food receips, dukes and clay you need later anyway. And they usually are closer and you don't get overloaded.

If i get the receipe for bacon & eggs, i don't even put a point into master chef. If not master chef is the next skill at day 3 or 4. By this time i already have 10-20 eggs and more meat then needed with the eggs.

I harvest the cadavers on the streets for rotten flesh and nitrate and build farming plots asap. Lotl is not needed yet. I put points into lotl first when i have some plots, found seeds and the plants are grown. Usually not before day 4-5, maybe even later. (maybe lotl makes sense if you find a corn field or similar earlier).

Once i can cook bacon & eggs, i hold back canned food as much as possible for cooking even improved food sooner or later.

I also haven't crafted a single weapon in A19 yet. The skills points are much more usefull in other perks and i always found better weapons and tools anyway.

 

So yes, the first few days are for pumping up food supplies and improve stamina use.

Further then i put points as required

• if i find a wrench -> salvage operations
• if i find heavy armor -> heavy armor
• if i find light armor -> light armor (i prefer heavy armor and there was no game where i haven't found heavy yet...)
• depending on what weapon i use, usually the first point for the regarded special skill
• if nothing else, 1 point in pack mule
• 1 point in daring adventurer since i usually only do random looting rarely anymore
• Advanced engineer if i haven't found a forge receipe yet.

Next task is to go for a bicycle. So INT to 2 and mechanic. One point saved if i find the nerd googles.

 

It is usually day 7-10 right now and everything i skilled yet is for stamina, food and mobility. Absolutely no specilazation yet. Specialization starts NOW.

Since the gamestage raises much slower now (and also not affected by the difficulty anymore), it's also not required to increase weapons skills fast.

As many others repeatedly said: Up to like day 15-20 food is again no issue anymore.

 

It's also hard not to skill in strength and agility soon, as you find pistols or blunderbus first and there is a relatively long way to go until you are even able to find rifles, automatic rifles or junk turrets.

Up to now i haven't spent a single point into any base attribute, that one in int is the first.

 

For me it clearly looks like early game has been generalized. There are still options how to do it exactly but going fully for a weapon build from day 1 is not good anymore. And imho that is good.