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The eating requirement is breaking emersion

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1 hour ago, Ralathar44 said:

For normal people prolly, but for the super human player character we control prolly not :P.  I'm pretty sure if I could carry literal tons at a time, operate at full efficiency without ever sleeping, fall dozens of feet to the ground and land without injury, and heal life threatening injuries with minimal medical care that I'd also have much higher caloric requirements.

People use their own real life examples of eating constantly as an example of how there is a disconnect, but I'll accept that when people share their own real life examples of all the superhuman activities our character does without a similar disconnect.

I get what you're saying Ral. But as you validly point out the non-realism(?) of carrying tons of stuff, etc., there are understandable 'gameplay trumps realism' reasons for those that, if perhaps debatable, are at least generally readily apparent.

 

I didn't do a good job conveying my thought process or provide an example of what I was thinking, so here goes :)

 

I thought of the Bacon & Eggs Icon as a comparison for the can of Chili. I think the B&E is 1 or 2 sunnyside up and 1 strip of bacon? To me that alone would be a bit skimpy for breakfast. With me not being superman of course, heh. In comparison the can of Chili looks like one we can buy in a store and my experiance with such cans leads me to think that the Chili would be more filling than the Bacon & Eggs.

Talking strictly the visuals of the icons.

 

Just going off of a18.4 here but B&E provided 36 food while the Chili provided 15 (I think). So that alone can result in a, "what?" disconnect, for no readily apparent reason. Certainly could be that there were/are balancing limitations involved, or could be a work in progress or the result of kind of going 'nose blind' and simply not really seeing the icons anymore and just seeing than as "low tier cans", etc.

 

So what Boidster said made me think, "um, yeah. why not simply change names & icons of cans?" "or just add a few new ones"

Could go a couple different ways.

 

1) could go the , 'no more new items' route and just rename/re-icon some of the cans like the Chili & Beef/Chicken/Lamb rations, Salmon, etc., to more things like the can of Peas. Could be Olives or Brown Gravy. Relish, Salsa, Tomato Paste, what have you. Things that most folks would normally think of as part of a recipe but not a meal by itself. Then the lower food values would make more intuitive sense.

 

2) or, they could add a few, new, low-cal ingredient items while keeping the Chili/Beef etc. Bump the Chili/Beef/etc to a mid-tier food value but also decrease their frequency, while having the new ingredient ones be more common. (or not, whatever they need to balance the high qual food)

 

Basically just 'polish' of course, but since TFPs generally mimic reality when it doesn't hurt gameplay this bit seems pretty cheap time wise and I'd guess it might quell a few comments.

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19 hours ago, meganoth said:

The devs said multiple times that Gameplay trumps realism. Try to bring up a realism arguement to Gazz and I promise you he will just make fun of your argument. Bring a gameplay reason something is not working and you actually have a change to get heard

 

Gameplay trumps realism. And that is why cans give so little food and hobo stew so much. 

Gameplay wise it would make sense too, that big amounts of food fill you up for more.

 

It doesnt make much sense, gameplay or realism wise that you have eaten 1 kg of meat and got hungry 2 ingame hours later.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Solomon said:

Gameplay wise it would make sense too, that big amounts of food fill you up for more.

 

It doesnt make much sense, gameplay or realism wise that you have eaten 1 kg of meat and got hungry 2 ingame hours later.

Where did you get the 1kg from? There is never any indication how much a "portion" in the game is

 

Don't look at the icons, an icon of a full cake may still mean just one piece of a cake or a minitature cake. Cans of food might mean smaller cans than you are used to or just a portion of a real can. A meat stew obviously can't be a full pot of meat stew (you couldn't eat one full pot in one sitting), it is just an arbitrary portion, maybe a full plate, maybe just 3 or 5 spoons full of meat stew.

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Where did you get the 1kg from? There is never any indication how much a "portion" in the game is

 

Don't look at the icons, an icon of a full cake may still mean just one piece of a cake or a minitature cake. Cans of food might mean smaller cans than you are used to or just a portion of a real can. A meat stew obviously can't be a full pot of meat stew (you couldn't eat one full pot in one sitting), it is just an arbitrary portion, maybe a full plate, maybe just 3 or 5 spoons full of meat stew.

 

 

Yeah, people don't get that UI icons are representative because what people understand/interpret via the picture and the reality often diverge.  UI design is a tricky area because of things like this.  If they showed a few scraps of meat instead of full cuts as the icon it'd be less clear for the user what that icon represented.  Clarity of communication > realism when it comes to UI elements.

And I'm sure some folks will say "but surely anyone would realize blah blah blah".  No...they don't lol.  For example when they were designing the Fortnite Trap Icon they went through many different icons until they settled on the one that looks like a bear trap (despite not having a bear trap in game) because users just were not getting it.  When they designed their pickaxe "sparkle target" for faster mining they tried time and time again to get the user to aim for the sparkle to mine faster and nothing worked so they finally made you unlock the faster sparkle mining to force users to understand what it was and that finally worked.  There are literally THOUSANDS of examples like this in gaming we never hear about because it all happens internally.  I actually attended a full panel on the developers covering these kind of things at SXSW a year ago.

As it turns out designing a game for us is hard :P.


Oh and for folks going "but I only get like 2 meals out of a deer! I should get like 20!".  You can get 20 meals from a deer when cutting and carrying that meat has real gameplay implications.  You wanna know how that feels go play the Long Dark.  The Long Dark is a fantastic illustration of how impactful that kind of thing is when realistic and the mechanics serve the story mode well but the survival mode of that game is shallow AF and quickly gets old once you master basic survival because that's all that game is.  It IS however much more realistic :P.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

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(chuckling) come on guys you're seriously stretching on those :)

 

Don't tell me you didn't have to think for at least a few seconds to come up with the Cake icon comparison @meganoth :)  "a picture tells a tale" or "a picture is worth a thousand words". Saying, "Don't look at the icons..." 0_o ... what now? So that would apply if the icon for the M60 looked like a Ma Deuce (M2 .50cal)?

 

And TFPs/MM themselves counter the amount of meat from a deer @Ralathar44 by their actions for balancing wildlife in current patch. Fewer large game but more plentiful small game. And I'd guess the panel talk covered things like making things as intuitive as possible, within design/gameplay constraints.

 

"Perception is reality" as they say and it's just silly to challenge peoples reality without reason. (kind of like what I'm doing here to an extent lol)

There's a gameplay reason in 7dtd that deer don't provide a "realistic" amount of meat. (not a great one imo but ok)

Also gameplay reasons we can carry tons of materials, etc.

 

But there's no gameplay reason for the current confusion created by the names and icons of the canned food.

 

Yes, there could certainly be -time/dev/art-resource- constraints, no question. But do either of you seriously think that if TFPs were _just_now_ adding in canned food & recipes, knowing what niche they're intended to fill, and the supporting mechanics of recipes as schematics/perks, desire to make food scarece, etc., that things would be exactly the same? H3ll no. They're better designers than that.

 

There's also another supporting bit I thought of for #2 in my earlier post: other survivors could reasonably be expected to have picked things like Chili, cans of Meat/Salmon/Spam over things like Tomato Paste.

Like there aren't any jars of Peanut Butter in the game right? PB is super dense in calories, doesn't need cooking, eat out of the jar, no refrigeration needed etc., it'd be a highly sought after item.

 

Anyway. TFPs will do what TFPs will do. They know their goals & resources. If this gets polished in some manner then good. If not, that's up to them. And not saying that in a, "screw them!" way, not at all. I certainly have -no- idea how much is on their plates vs. timelines.

I'm just "doing my part" as a volunteer alpha player; providing feedback where I think it might be helpful.

I have no expectations of what may come from it.

 

Now I'm off to cook a really good breakfast after going shopping yesterday.

Thinking a glass of OJ, 3 eggs, 4 sausage links, potatos & gravy with a fresh toasted buttered bagel. That'll do for a few hours :biggrin1:

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

(chuckling) come on guys you're seriously stretching on those :)

 

Don't tell me you didn't have to think for at least a few seconds to come up with the Cake icon comparison @meganoth :)  "a picture tells a tale" or "a picture is worth a thousand words". Saying, "Don't look at the icons..." 0_o ... what now? So that would apply if the icon for the M60 looked like a Ma Deuce (M2 .50cal)?

 

And TFPs/MM themselves counter the amount of meat from a deer @Ralathar44 by their actions for balancing wildlife in current patch. Fewer large game but more plentiful small game. And I'd guess the panel talk covered things like making things as intuitive as possible, within design/gameplay constraints.

 

"Perception is reality" as they say and it's just silly to challenge peoples reality without reason. (kind of like what I'm doing here to an extent lol)

There's a gameplay reason in 7dtd that deer don't provide a "realistic" amount of meat. (not a great one imo but ok)

Also gameplay reasons we can carry tons of materials, etc.

 

But there's no gameplay reason for the current confusion created by the names and icons of the canned food.

 

Yes, there could certainly be -time/dev/art-resource- constraints, no question. But do either of you seriously think that if TFPs were _just_now_ adding in canned food & recipes, knowing what niche they're intended to fill, and the supporting mechanics of recipes as schematics/perks, desire to make food scarece, etc., that things would be exactly the same? H3ll no. They're better designers than that.

 

There's also another supporting bit I thought of for #2 in my earlier post: other survivors could reasonably be expected to have picked things like Chili, cans of Meat/Salmon/Spam over things like Tomato Paste.

Like there aren't any jars of Peanut Butter in the game right? PB is super dense in calories, doesn't need cooking, eat out of the jar, no refrigeration needed etc., it'd be a highly sought after item.

 

Anyway. TFPs will do what TFPs will do. They know their goals & resources. If this gets polished in some manner then good. If not, that's up to them. And not saying that in a, "screw them!" way, not at all. I certainly have -no- idea how much is on their plates vs. timelines.

I'm just "doing my part" as a volunteer alpha player; providing feedback where I think it might be helpful.

I have no expectations of what may come from it.

 

Now I'm off to cook a really good breakfast after going shopping yesterday.

Thinking a glass of OJ, 3 eggs, 4 sausage links, potatos & gravy with a fresh toasted buttered bagel. That'll do for a few hours :biggrin1:

 

 

You are completely right with assuming that the icons were probably made before they balanced the food they should contain about 3 or 4 times.

And further on there might be more balancing steps changing the values to something else and even if the icon showed the right amount now that soon would be wrong again.

 

So what do you propose, oh great Adminstrator 😉: TFP changing the icons every time they change their food value? So that players don't need to check the numbers that are there and show exactly what they get? How much useless rework do you want to finance?

 

So, in the meantime the icons are just a depiction to give you some inclination what you are eating, not how much you are eating. Which is exactly what I have been saying.

 

Maybe your confusion is that further up I said "Gameplay reasons". For gameplay reasons the food is NOT adjusted to be what the icons look like. Because of limited dev resources the icons are now also not adjusted to look like the food value the stuff gets. Result: Icon is not showing the correct amount

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Where did you get the 1kg from? There is never any indication how much a "portion" in the game is

 

Don't look at the icons, an icon of a full cake may still mean just one piece of a cake or a minitature cake. Cans of food might mean smaller cans than you are used to or just a portion of a real can. A meat stew obviously can't be a full pot of meat stew (you couldn't eat one full pot in one sitting), it is just an arbitrary portion, maybe a full plate, maybe just 3 or 5 spoons full of meat stew.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ralathar44 said:

Yeah, people don't get that UI icons are representative because what people understand/interpret via the picture and the reality often diverge.  UI design is a tricky area because of things like this.  If they showed a few scraps of meat instead of full cuts as the icon it'd be less clear for the user what that icon represented.  Clarity of communication > realism when it comes to UI elements.

 

I dont even take a look at the icons, i use the amount i loot as guidelines.

 

I kill a deer and gain 6 pieces of meat from it, if we assume that im an idiot who doesnt know how to use a full deer that means i can still scrap down atleast 2 kgs of meat from a deer. One piece of boiled meat consist of 5 raw meat pieces, so i can assume that its easily over 1kg of food.

 

 

I know that we talk realism here with gameplay related manner but it only takes some basic take on to generate an idea how much food we consume in this game in the current system.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

"Perception is reality"

Nope, reality is reality.  Perception is just how people see things and is obtained by filtering what they experience through their own biases and formed via their own limited knowledge.  If perception is reality then reality has millions of states of "reality" at a time and thus the entire concept becomes pretty irrelevant.

Gameplay feel matters and adjustments often do get made based on feel.  But perception/what people express and what makes people play more are often two different things.  If perception was really all that important then EA would have been broke a decade ago.  They won worst company in America multiple times in a row, they often release the same game over and over again with almost no changes (their sports games), this always has a huge negative reception around it.  Yet people keep buying untold millions of copies of the very games they complain about.

Here is a good example of the difference between perception and reality.  Perception was that there were too many skags in an area and the feedback was that they should remove some skags.  The developer doubled the amount of skags and people were happy.  The perceived reality of the problem was not the actual problem.  And other problems people perceived were not problems at all.  THAT is game design.  I work in QA, I've been in the game's industry before and I'm going back into it now.  I've done alot of tech support before too where perceptions often radically differed from reality there too.  I wouldn't say this is my wheelhouse, but it's close and I have significant experience in this area.

This is why gaming is so heavily metrics driven.  Metrics are much more reliable than player perception/feedback :p.


But let's give one last example, World of Warcraft's "rest" system.  Did you know it was originally an exp fatigue system where after earning too much exp they lowered the exp you gained?  Players HATED it.  So what did they do?  They changed zero mechanics and they rebranded it as bonus exp and reintroduced it later.  Players loved it.  Same exact system :P.  THAT's how perception works haha.


 

13 minutes ago, Solomon said:

 

I dont even take a look at the icons, i use the amount i loot as guidelines.

 

I kill a deer and gain 6 pieces of meat from it, if we assume that im an idiot who doesnt know how to use a full deer that means i can still scrap down atleast 2 kgs of meat from a deer. One piece of boiled meat consist of 5 raw meat pieces, so i can assume that its easily over 1kg of food.

 

 

I know that we talk realism here with gameplay related manner but it only takes some basic take on to generate an idea how much food we consume in this game in the current system.

Let me show how silly this is:  I chop down a tree and get 50 wood.  The average pine tree weighs 5,232 kg (11534.59 lbs).  I don't dry or season the wood so in game so I must be using it raw.  Let's say I'm wasteful and lose 75% of the wood (1,308 kg or 2,883.64 lbs left).  That means each piece of wood must weigh at least 78kg (171 lbs).  Even if we half that to account for properly drying the wood that's still 39kg(85.5 lbs) per piece of wood. 

And 1 piece of wood in the forge lasts about 1 minute.  So my forge is plainly burning 85lbs - 171lbs of wood an hour!

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)
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13 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

Let me show how silly this is:  I chop down a tree and get 50 wood.  The average pine tree weighs 5,232 kg (11534.59 lbs).  I don't dry or season the wood so in game so I must be using it raw.  Let's say I'm wasteful and lose 75% of the wood (1,308 kg or 2,883.64 lbs left).  That means each piece of wood must weigh at least 78kg (171 lbs).  Even if we half that to account for properly drying the wood that's still 39kg(85.5 lbs) per piece of wood. 

And 1 piece of wood in the forge lasts about 1 minute.  So my forge is plainly burning 85lbs - 171lbs of wood an hour!

Dude, if you follow my calculations i wasted away a 200kg avarage stag and got 2kg of meat out of it, thats 99% of the stag wasted!

 

If we follow my ratios that means you got approx 52kgs of raw wood after drying thats approx 40kgs so each piece of wood weights 1.25kg.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Dont get me wrong i know its silly to try to gauge in the weights of stuff ingame but i wanted to show that its entirely possible to be feeling full from eating 1 grilled meat for atleast 4 ingame hours.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Solomon said:

 

I dont even take a look at the icons, i use the amount i loot as guidelines.

 

I kill a deer and gain 6 pieces of meat from it, if we assume that im an idiot who doesnt know how to use a full deer that means i can still scrap down atleast 2 kgs of meat from a deer. One piece of boiled meat consist of 5 raw meat pieces, so i can assume that its easily over 1kg of food.

 

 

I know that we talk realism here with gameplay related manner but it only takes some basic take on to generate an idea how much food we consume in this game in the current system.

Yes, that is a good reality argument and actually was brought up a few times by forum users. And if TFP could ignore balance then it would be a good reason to immediately change the amount of meat you are getting from a deer.

 

BUT 7D2D is not a simulation and gameplay is a lot more important to the developers than simulating reality. A deer would actually feed a player for days or even weeks if he knew any preservation technique or lived in the snow biome.

 

Now there are possible solutions to this dilemma, but all are not ideal:

 

1) Make deer and other big animal really scarce or difficult to hunt. So that in the first 14 days you get at most one big animal to feed on. Disadvantage: Hunter perk becomes obsolete and hunting is an activity you do once every 10 real time hours, hardly there in the game.

2) Remove big animals completely, only have slightly starved rabbits and chicken in the game

3) Spawn a pack of cojotes immediately when the deer has been shot. They run away with 90% of the deers meat and you get 10% off it.

4) ... (I'm sure there are more ideas, but they all have disadvantages, especially in terms of developers resources to pull it off)

 

Remember, TFP is still a small indie developer. They have to pick their fights.

 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Dude, if you follow my calculations i wasted away a 200kg avarage stag and got 2kg of meat out of it, thats 99% of the stag wasted!

 

If we follow my ratios that means you got approx 52kgs of raw wood after drying thats approx 40kgs so each piece of wood weights 1.25kg.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Dont get me wrong i know its silly to try to gauge in the weights of stuff ingame but i wanted to show that its entirely possible to be feeling full from eating 1 grilled meat for atleast 4 ingame hours.

 

 

That's because everything in game is just representative, which is exactly my point.  It's all gameplay and was never intended to be realistic.  If you want realistic butchering, quartering, cooking, and eating then go play the Long Dark.  The Long Dark is a realistic survival game, 7DTD is and has always been an arcadey one.  Though in the Long dark actually carrying that meat and the calories used to harvest it and etc are also much more realistic.  It was a legitimate issue to carry the meat harvested in TLD and the calories/time spent to harvest it was also a significant consideration.  The meat also deteriorated and rotted over time...becoming more dangerous to eat.  In 7DTD you can store your meat in a box unrfrigerated indefinitely.  If you want things to be more realistic, don't cherry pick or you're just making it unrealistic in different ways.

When we have realistic carrying weights, butchering calories/time spent, food rotting, and etc I'll gladly advocate for more meat returns.  But asking for the benefits of realism without the detriments has nothing to do with realism at all.  It's a package deal or you're just asking for the game to be easier as a gameplay consideration.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, meganoth said:

So what do you propose, oh great Adminstrator 😉: TFP changing the icons every time they change their food value? So that players don't need to check the numbers that are there and show exactly what they get? How much useless rework do you want to finance?

heh, "who is that behind the curtain!?" :)

 

Nope. Nope. and none, but you'd have to define "useless" right? :)

I mean there's been quite a bit of icon/item _art_ rework that didn't have anything to do with the underlying mechanics, they just made the game look more in line with TFPs/MMs vision.

 

And remember, I said "polish". That, at least from my experiance with a few 'alpha' games, indicates near the actual end of the alpha stage (if not it's own 'stage'. definitions vary). So, to me at least, that would be when all the mechanics are in, balance is generally done, that kind of thing.

 

To be fair, I was a bit harsh regarding your earlier comment about ignoring the icons. It was/is valid.

Maybe as a, "just for now", or could be a, "yeah, those icons are misleading, just ignore them, TFPs couldn't get to them prior to Gold".

The comparison I made to a weapon icon being really 'wrong' wasn't great. I'm sure lots of folks wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an icon for an M60 vs. an M2. Was attempting to point out that there are some icons that I think we could all agree would be unlikely to survive to Gold.

Edit: clarify, if the Pistol had a tennis racket as an icon.

 

Whether canned food falls into that category is entirely up to the Pimps.

 

3 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Nope, reality is reality.

 

Yep, but Ral, you went ahead and made my point for me with the rest of your post!

The World of Warcraft debuff-to-buff is a perfect example. They just changed the packaging.

I was suggesting to change the -perception- of the canned foods, just like Blizzard did :)

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, FileMachete said:

Yep, but Ral, you went ahead and made my point for me with the rest of your post!

The World of Warcraft debuff-to-buff is a perfect example. They just changed the packaging.

I was suggesting to change the -perception- of the canned foods, just like Blizzard did

Honestly i'd be in support of that if the rest of the game ran on the same rules OR if the base argument being made was new, but neither of those is true.  The entire game runs off of that same sort of abstraction and people have been yelling about not getting enough meat from deer or food from x any time that food is less than effectively infinite early game.

So changing the packing in this case won't actually change anything because the problem is not the packaging in this case since the complaints predated that packaging.  They're just using the packaging (canned food in this case) as an excuse.  Just like they made the argument before or "I only get X meat from deers, this is the dumb!"  The problem is just people who don't want food to be a mechanic they have to worry about asking for food buffs, like they have every single time 7DTD has made food a concern for early game.  There is a small continent of people who have made these complaints since before A14 any time hunger actually becomes a concern early game.   The deer complaints largely went away because they never got any traction but they flare up here and there before quickly petering out again.  But now they are attacking canned food using the same exact song and dance because canned food used to be ridiculous good early game and now it's not anymore...but it's still ridiculously good mid and late game.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/17/2020 at 5:41 PM, gcomerfo said:

Wait!  This just in...

 

Trader Joel is now offering a Food Assistance Program, where you can acquire Food Stamps for being such a Wuss, but then you have to go and fetch his coffee, do his dishes, and clean his Terlet ;) and can't leave the compound until you work off your Trader Joel Food Stamps. 

 

After leaving the Trader compound, you will get s "Shame" Debuff for 1 game day, until you can learn to survive.  Zombies will leave you alone out of pity for your lazy @%$*#!.

[Zombie be like]

"Look.. Braiiiinnss!...mmmmmmm" 

"Wah, nooooo... Lazzzzeeee Braiiinnnssss!  No Taste as Good!"

 

Ok, they made the game tougher to survive early on, well, that was the point. Stretch out the early game. Make being someone who was held captive and suddenly dumped in the middle of nowhere and required to fend for yourself with nothing more than a backpack full of mostly useless items and a note. Oh so sad you can't survive 2 days without water, guess what, you wouldn't survive the real world two days without water either.

 

Welcome to a more realistic start of the game.  Fight for your life and enjoy it.

 

Blaster

 

 

 

 

 

 

My mistake, I probably overlooked your real issue pointed at people living off welfare, food stamps or even WIC. I wish you all the luck of anything but the Irish. 😛

Edited by Blaster_Yoda (see edit history)

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7 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Honestly i'd be in support of that if the rest of the game ran on the same rules OR if the base argument being made was new, but neither of those is true.  The entire game runs off of that same sort of abstraction and people have been yelling about not getting enough meat from deer or food from x any time that food is less than effectively infinite early game.

Ok, I get that. And have seen/participated in the '#deer-gate' discussions, heh.

 

My general thoughts on 'food' in 7dtd is that the Pimps simply don't have the tools/mechanics to make food an issue for more than a couple few days. Not a criticism, just an observation that without the game somehow being able to track individual player food consumption and then spawning animals/loot-food in response that it's simply inevitable the player/s will wind up with surplus.

 

And that's ok for me at least. I honestly wouldn't want to have to spend say half of each day, every day, dealing with food. Spending all day for the first couple few days in a new game I could deal with, but I know what the game offers further on. Not certain how I'd feel about it if food was like that as a brand new player. But that balance is up to TFPs. And as a 4+ year player I honestly don't think that TFPs will ever make food a major long term chore, that'd just be 'grind' and MMs various statements about grind over the years have been generally consistent that he doesn't view that as 'fun'.

 

On this part, "Honestly i'd be in support of that if the rest of the game ran on the same rules" could be we just view things differently or just disagree, either of which is perfectly fine of course. To me the icons are consistent in the rest of the game, they match what the 'thing' is. Except, imo, some of the canned food. Obviously I don't mean that a Beef Ration isn't beef, it's that the icon leads me to think that it's going to be a 'lot of food', when it's food value is more like a small bit of jerky. So, imo, these few cans are good candidates for a polish pass. But that's totally up to TFPs.

 

4 hours ago, Blaster_Yoda said:

Oh so sad you can't survive 2 days without water, guess what, you wouldn't survive the real world two days without water either.

Just being pedantic here but as written that's simply not true. Sure some folks might not live 48 hours out in the summer desert heat, but others have lived 4+ days in the summer desert without water. There's a long time survival phrase, "3 minutes, 3 days, 30 days" referring to how long an average person in "average" conditions can survive without Air, Water and Food. Though the Air part now a days is more likely to be stated as "1 minute".

 

Sorry, like I said, just being pedantic. :)

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On 7/17/2020 at 3:29 PM, meganoth said:

The devs said multiple times that Gameplay trumps realism. Try to bring up a realism arguement to Gazz and I promise you he will just make fun of your argument. Bring a gameplay reason something is not working and you actually have a change to get heard

 

Gameplay trumps realism. And that is why cans give so little food and hobo stew so much. 

I agree gameplay trumps realism, but eating, eating, eating is not good gameplay, at least not for me.  Someone mentioned before that this isn't just a survival game.  A thing Pimps seem to forget sometimes I think.  If you make a pure survival game, your much smaller audience will be happy with complexity and want you go all the way, but when you are catering to other markets too, then you need to balance for everyone.  

On 7/17/2020 at 3:29 PM, meganoth said:

If you post on the forum you have to accept hearing others with different opinions. If you think that is reason to spam your opinion you'll only land in ignore lists.

 

By the way, are you still unaware that animals spawns are already tuned down again in the next patch? Because your post in the dev dairy makes it obvious that you seem to have missed all helpful replies and are still making points that are no longer valid.

No, I was aware that animal spawns were going to be turned down when I wrote that comment - I was giving my 2 cents on the post that I quoted.  Thanks for the poo emote on that comment though, but I don't need it. You can have it back.

 

 

On 7/17/2020 at 5:50 PM, hotpoon said:

It is not fun at all. It is stupid in fact. 

This

On 7/18/2020 at 12:24 AM, Boidster said:

Replace the canned foods, which are all the low-level, barely surviving stuff with "handful of berries" and "four crackers with moldy cheese" and people will stop carping. This is like the great sealed crate kerfluffle. People see the in-game character eat four cans of peas and instead of understanding that the game requires a range of food quality and canned foods are low quality, they think about literally eating four cans of peas IRL and say "that isn't fun."

 

TFP needs to change the labels so people who can't see why the game acts like a game will instead see something "realistic". Like a half-finished Sham-A-Lama Ding Dong. Exact same identical game mechanics, including availability in vending machines. Just change the names so people stop complaining.

Not going to lie, man. That makes sense.  Same reason I get triggered having to use 5 meats to make 1 steak. Unless you are using meat glue, that isn't the way you make a steak. 😄 If you use 5 pieces of meat to make a kebab, sure.

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