Farming Plots vs. Hoes DEATHMATCH

[Roland]

I mean, the reason for their appearance is in this - and it means that they appeared as a result of some problems and not an improvement of anything.

 

So this is a forced measure, not an improvement on something that was worse.

And all.

 

Sometimes something can be implemented due to necessity but also wind up better. Whether you believe that to be the case in this instance depends on your preferences. Farming has always been an afterthought since the beginning. The devs don't care about making this a robust farming game. In their minds farming is not one of the pillars next to crafting, scavenging, exploring, building, and defending. So whether it was the old way or the new way it was always going to be superficial and just enough to list as a feature.

 

I think there are some cool things that could be done with farming but it will almost certainly be modders that do it because as far as TFP is concerned farming is good enough for the type of game they are creating. I still think that the current system is better overall than the old system. The one thing the old system had was the immersive action-oriented process of actually hoeing the ground and tilling the soil. That is what most people miss in my opinion.

[doughphunghus]

I voted for the old way because it was just more fun, and had a whole "this is going to be a lot of work to set up a farm, better be ready to actually do it" vibe. However, I like the concept of plots. I don't know why there can't be both. You farm the old way, then once you get more resources, you can decide to make some nice plots. In fact, I'd like it more if the plots were semi buried in the ground (like upgrading to a plot changed the dirt block to a plot block. Yes I know you could just dig it out and bury it) so they were still sort of at ground level. Then the "plot" would just be an upgrade to the ground once you had maxed out the fertilizing/watering of the ground. Maybe once it was upgraded to a plot, you got maximal yield (or just growth rate or some property to make it worth doing) or you just didn't have to water anymore. Or maybe anything that walks over crops (or shot them, burned them) destroyed them and with a plot upgrade the "trample to destroy chance" was cut in half.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@doughphunghus That´s not gonna work look at post #17. But it could be so that we have plots that need hoeing and fertilizer, also reseeding should be possible then. Just not with the horrible hitboxes with the hoe and when reseeding.

 

I don´t get how people complain about the current hitboxes when it was way worse with the old way. In the current system you have a text on the screen, you can´t miss if you pay a bit of attention.

[FileMachete]

My opinion, they both sucketh!

I'd rather see something where one ear of corn gave ~40 seeds, plant anywhere for x% time&yield, plant into hoed ground = better yield, add fertilizer = less time to grow.

Say at least a couple full in-game weeks to grow, but those 40 corn plants would yield more than enough corn to provide say ~half of calories a player burns during a grow season.

 

Adjust wild plants so they're a more viable food source, possibly set them to slowly regrow. Change hunting so a deer provides a couple weeks protien, rabbit only a meal worth.

Add chicken coops so later game could choose to farm chickens instead of deer hunting.

[Hollowprime]

I'd vote for both to be honest. And then I'd add an irrigation system alongside a led/blue LED system so that we can finally have underground farms without sun light.

[theFlu]

Heh, looks like I'm a lil pessimist about this.. voted for the old way, not that it really matters, both have their pros and cons..

 

Voted for hoes, just because the new farm plot is a piece in the "looks like they're not willing to fix the terrain texturing issues" - puzzle. If we can't change the look of the terrain, let's get rid of all the features that require that. Farming change, removal of asphalt, etc. Which kills any hopes I had for a terrain smoothing tool.. there's no point in making a road and smoothing it out if you can't make the damn road in the first place. And now it's about two steps away from "umm, why would we actually use block based terrain anymore, it looks and behaves terrible, would be better off making it just permanent." And at some point I might as well agree, if you keep removing the feature bit by bit, you'll end up not having a reason for it.

 

On the other hand, the farm plot system seems like it could be expanded easier.. box quality, different farming boxes like hydroponics, different needs for different plants. But "we're going gold, so we won't be doing that".. oh well.

 

Curious to see where we'll end up.

[Jarod_Silverstar]

I am in the middle on this as well, both systems have their good and bad points. As it is, farming is not much of challenge; if in single player once you get a 5x5 plot with corn, potato, mushrooms, aloe and something for making drinks with, you have all you need to keep you going for the rest of the game. So either way to me it doesn't make much difference.

 

However, there are some improvements that I would like to see.The first step is making most of the plants biome specific, as in they can only grow in certain biomes or conditions with the farm plot boxes being a way for us to plant those crops in other areas. So if you are setting up in the forest and want to grow corn and potato you can plant them directly in the ground, but if you want to grow yucca and aloe, you need to create a farm box with sandy soil to grow in.

 

Further expansions could include hydroponics, greenhouses for climate control and things like that.

[SuperNinja55]

what if we just had the option to have both? best of both worlds I say.

[doughphunghus]

The two big problems with the old method was balance and incompatibility with the new method of generating terrain

what if we just had the option to have both? best of both worlds I say.

the farm plot system seems like it could be expanded easier.. box quality, different farming boxes like hydroponics, different needs for different plants.

 

Maybe.....there could be a "low level tier" of farm plot and a "high level tier" of farm plot.

 

low level tier: 1/2 or 1/4 the height of a farm plot. When you put it down, it looks like... good ol' dirt Or maybe a plot made from a single layer of rustic 2x4's. Something you can walk over easily.

Its would literally be a visual change + some debuffs to growth speed (or whatever needed to make it easier to craft, less useful for food). Make this plot is less "set and forget" like it is today and maybe require more work to maintain (or interact with).

 

You then upgrade the plot to the current "hi tier" plot with more wood/fertilizer/dirt. Make it quite hard to upgrade. This plot is more "set and forget" like it is today.

 

Or maybe add a mechanic to make plots only harvestable X times before your plant dies/disappears. Then you have to replant with seeds. Obviously high tier plot would be harvestable more times than lower level ones. It would give you a reason for needing to keep crafting seed.

 

Then throw in using the hoe/watering/whatever on the low level plot as a requirement for something (yay! I'm a farmer!) and make using the hoe on the regular farm plot less of a requirement. or....this is a stretch ..make a "hand spade" that can replace the hoe and can also be used as a knife ;0

 

Additionally: having more plot block types would give modders/TFP some more ammo to make more realistic POI's. It would be cool to have a colored ceramic pot one for herbs (maybe like the current generic potted plant in the game). Yeah I know this is overkill and something that could be modded in as a new block ...but that's over my skill set and no ones done it yet to my knowledge

 

Someone above said this was not a farming simulator?! sigh I agree though but I see it as kinda like fishing. Something almost silly to do to but not really necessary (if you like looting for food all the time) so you can take your mind off the apocalypse, and make a fully functional base....dare I say it...."home sweet home"

[pApA^LeGBa]

I am all for something else if it makes sense. Just nothing too fancy, keep the plots and bring back the hoe and reseeding with hitboxes that don´t suck balls, like they did before the plots and it´s good imo. The old "i can farm on day one" method has to stay dead tough. Some work and skill should be needed to start a farm. More than just finding a hoe.

 

This game has so much other, more importnant things that need work. So keep it simple.

 

[Iceburg71]

I just created a modlet for another recipe for Farm Plots using potted plants before seeing this thread.. I like the farm plots a little better than the old way. I do wish for the hoe back to possibly make an improvement to the farm plot, though. I had also started looking into the tiered approach to farm plots. So I may do that also and bring back the hoe as to how to increase the level of the farm plot.

[Ripflex]

I liked the farm plot, but not as a Cube. It would be nice to layout a flat block where it mark that area for crops to grow on instead, as if you marked the ground with the hoe to plant.

 

Also would be nice to add a sickle tool to harvest crops without punching them (also be used to gather grass fibers to).

 

[Scyris]

Save the horses!

 

Ok that made me giggle, I'd say neither matters, there is more than enough food in the world and more than enough sources that I never need to even start a farm. Trader, vending machines, lots of it in loot. I never understood how anyone could starve or dehydrate to death in this game, when food is so easy, as is water. Even when I was a new player back in a10 I never had any food or water issues.. ever, and it was harder back then than it is now to get food. Main issue back then was finding that damn forge ahead book, my record is going to day 25 before I finally found it lol. Thankfully zombies were stupid back then, and all you had to do on horde night was be on the 2nd floor of a random poi and knock the stairs out to be safe. This still works in A18 but you need to pay much more attention because they WILL eventually make a path to you, takes them a while though depend what the poi is made of, you'll have to kill some to prevent em from getting to you compared to a16 where you could sit on that 2nd floor and just go afk and be 100% safe.

[Boidster]

I never understood how anyone could starve or dehydrate to death in this game, when food is so easy, as is water.

 

Creating a farm is not about avoiding starvation or dehydration. Therein lies your misunderstanding.

[Scyris]

 

Creating a farm is not about avoiding starvation or dehydration. Therein lies your misunderstanding.

 

Well, about the only thing I do farm often is aloe vera for first aid bandages, maybe some corn for grain booze, but, the corn is not really needed as you can find grain booze in medical piles like crazy. So I get what you mean, but the farms main purpose is supposed to be a food source, but as I said, food is so stupidly common as is water that you really have no need of food production. My point still stands, I don't get how anyone has managed to starve or dehydrate to death in 7dtd with how easy it is to get food and water.

[Ti2xGr]

On our current map, we are using a modlet that brings back the old method. I've used both on the current server. I prefer the old method better, but use both methods - One style on each of our two bases.

[Boidster]

On 4/27/2020 at 1:48 PM, Scyris said:

 

My point still stands, I don't get how anyone has managed to starve or dehydrate to death in 7dtd with how easy it is to get food and water.

Okay, well I agree with you as far as that goes I guess. We use the farm for advanced foods like Sham Chowder and Pumpkin Cheesecake, purified mineral water and the like. Having a steady supply of high-quality 'normal' foods like meat stew or hobo stew is a bonus. If your goal is just to stay fed and watered, canned food and boiled water or teas from vending machines will work; there is indeed no reason to start a farm. Even Aloe is abundant in the desert.

The game does need more advanced recipes which give temporary stat bonuses and which use farmed products.

[Morloc]

 

Ramblings of the Mad Farmer:

 

Bah. Reduce the amount of stuff that grows in the wild, but make it grow back (a la Elder Scrolls). Those plants you find out there survived reason...perfect soil, etc.

 

Keep farming in general, but make it subject to all kinds of lousy things...seedlings die as often as they thrive. Plants produce random yield from 0-2 (mitigated by perks, but 0 still always a possibility).  Make crops subject to trampling like in earlier 7D2D versions. Plants also just randomly die. Realistic farming that helps the "too much food" problem, but with perks and a lot of effort becomes a meager means to live off of.

 

If nothing else, bring back trampling!....nothing more ominous than the sound of a pack of zombies you can't see directly cutting their way through a cornfield. You're like "I ain't goin' in there!...but...the corn!!"

 

 

-Morloc

[meganoth]

Anecdote: My friends and I still build our farm plots in secure places on top of our crafting base even though there is no danger to plants anymore (the last time there was a danger was in A15 I think).

 

Just force of habit

[Roland]

For those who do farms up above or construct greenhouses, the new farm plots look so much better than the old globules of terrain it isn’t even a close race. 
 

I wonder if the difference in preference is simply whether people plant farms in greenhouses and rooftops vs simply farm a field out in the open on the ground. 

[n2n1]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

For those who do farms up above or construct greenhouses, the new farm plots look so much better than the old globules of terrain it isn’t even a close race. 
..... 

Yes, it's better for this type of use. But those who prefer ground and fresh air - it looks wrong.

If both options were present it would be a victory for everyone...

 

But we know that the reason for the absence of the old way is only that there are some technical difficulties that are the true reason,  but not "improved design"  

The only thing that really pisses me off is that it's being presented as if it's not just a plug for unsolved problems.