Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Blake_]

2 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

Ok, i will try to explain why a companion in the form of a modern drone does not look "cool" during the zombie Apocalypse.

This is a cinematic technique: - it uses contrasts.

So, a man with a stone axe breaking a super-modern robot looks cool, but a helicopter shooting homing missiles at mountain Bedouins on donkeys looks - suck...

You catching my drift ?

The satellite should correspond not to the epoch that has passed but to the one that has come. For example, a Dog,wolf or Cat would be better suited for this role .

7 days to die is a Horror game in a Postapocalyptic /Science Fiction setting. Your argument is not valid at all. It's akin to saying that The Lord of the Rings movies should not have White dressed magicians because "ew" and "I said so".

[FileMachete]

On 6/25/2020 at 7:27 AM, Visigoth said:

Watch Dev stream number 6 about 2:20 mins in, I got it was your opinion np

Found it starting at 2:16:25  https://youtu.be/IQoGeSsikrk?t=8185

Thanks for info @Visigoth , really helped in locating this!

 

Really good news from Rick aka TheFunPimp, "we're not collecting anything personal",

"looking into keeping compliance in both the United States and Europe"

 

1) They're using a hash rather than trackable ids, and the hash is created for that session.

{my read is that hash will be overwritten each time a player is selected to be analyzed}

{{ sry Snowdog, no mention if you can opt-in to this...}}

 

2) not collecting IP, SteamID, MAC address

3) not collecting game play data from everyone, roughly 1 out of 10 and luck of the draw if your play will be metric'd

 

[caveat: if I understood things correctly]

 

(worth noting that all Unity games do collect IPs and unique Advertisement IDs and send them back to Unity)

 

( gamesparks data analytics metrics collect collected player information personal <-- for searches )

Edit: adding a couple search terms; game sparks spark telemetry micro transactions tin foil hat

[Mechanimal]

6 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

how? its not like it fires lasers!

 

at first when Madmole described the drone! i was kinda on the same boat cuz i thought it was going to be a hovering piece of metal and it would be OP! but with the way it looks! (granted it needs 2 more fans to stay up in the air realistically! but) its much better then i though!   

 

plus its not really a Fighter! its a helper! and plus i think Madmole said it can talk! so i can finial play with someone without talking to my can of sham! 

i like to put saw blades on it and fly them at road!

Drone assessment from a roboticist:
(most of my bots are next-gen/cutting-edge, R&D, and usually ruggedized for outside and hazardous environments. Also space, sometimes. There is a big difference between these and consumer or factory robots. Like, huge dif.)

Forgivable:

- Battery life: The only drones that can fly that long and reliably are tethered, however I have seen crazy thin tethers for power. Regardless making this realistic would suck. Plus long-life, solid state, batteries and super caps do exist, and more are always on the way, so it's not a big stretch or immersion breaking to just have it fly with no worries. I would have recommended it the way they have it for gameplay reasons.

- Talking: Well, put simply, this AI is in it's own native territory. Plus it plays from a finite set of pre-recorded responses, and thus is just as simple as AI going back decades. Easy pass. In fact if they managed some kind of highly interactive customized AI system where you could wax poetic and talk philosophy I'd be impressed, maybe.

- Navigation: Sure, and no it does not require a ton of fancy sensors. Even the Tesla cars use little more than their cameras, which is impressive tbh. I have worked on many bots with fancy lasers, sonar, and more. It often tends to be more of a burden than an advantage, so this bot having only cams is a definite thumbs up. As for navigation AI and whatnot, again sure I'll buy it. Plus what they are dealing with for real now to get it working is not all that different, in ways, very dif in others, but it's believable.. if/when they get it working anyway;)

- Storage: Hard to criticize while standing next to it with 500 reinforced concrete blocks in my pocket, taking up a single slot at that. But they did help it feel more capable by putting large bladed fans. It would need more IRL, but it's enough for a pass in a video game. Plus they could have a double motor/blade set up in each, that would help.) If I changed anything here I would mainly add a 3rd blade/housing and make sure they are all doubled up. If a thing like this existed IRL it would likely have 6, 8 or more rotors. 

Um, no.. but fine ok whatev:

- 2x fully articulated arms: Ha, hahahhaha, nope! This is by far where most sci-fi designs fail, hard. This and legs, anything articulated. At most I would put a 2 axis pan/tilt joint, and then mount whatever onto that. I am working on a 6 axis arm right now and there is no @%$*#!ing way, like all kinds of no for those arms. People tend to think all you need is a joint, like a pivot point, and you're good to go... ffs I wish. Motor, transmission, torque sensor, position sensor, and "transmissions" can get all kinds of whacky with belts, weird-@%$*#! gear setups and linkages, and so on. Plus wiring through all that is so difficult most give up and it all just hangs out, I fight this irl, constantly. Anyway, since this principle is SO poorly understood in sci-fi games and film, exhaustively so, I tend to give up and just say "ok, whatever", and keep playing with my eyes half rolled. Fix it or leave, I consider this a personal nitpick, few to none would notice or care tbh. But you'd get major thumbs up from anyone whose even toyed with robotics irl.

Needs work fo sure:

- Healing and Attacking: Not done yet, so I'll wait, but please no magic flying symbols or heal rays, etc. Slap a shocker, like the handheld one, on a pan/tilt on one side, and I dunno, have it hold a syringe or pull out a bandage, on the healy side, make a bandage noise, no magical floating healy fog or whatever, please. Just having them do this, mainly the healing, is a stretch enough, but works for a game, so ok. Just think you CAN pull this off in a much more believable/passable way. The shocky thing should just have a bolt or something, not some kind of plasma ray or whatever tf that was. Again I know they're placeholders, we'll see what ends up in game.

Conclusion: Yes, please, gimme.

[Trankitas]

19 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

Ok, i will try to explain why a companion in the form of a modern drone does not look "cool" during the zombie Apocalypse.

This is a cinematic technique: - it uses contrasts.

So, a man with a stone axe breaking a super-modern robot looks cool, but a helicopter shooting homing missiles at mountain Bedouins on donkeys looks - suck...

You catching my drift ?

The satellite should correspond not to the epoch that has passed but to the one that has come. For example, a Dog,wolf or Cat would be better suited for this role .

There's a couple of design flaws in your idea.
What is the drone? The most powerful range weapon/robotic-automatic weapon for INT players.

Cat or wolf:

-Don't provide ranged attacks

-Don't provide an explanation of why would a INT player be able to have them and everyone else don't.

-Can't be crafted

-Don't provide the Tier 3 special weapon that INT tree needs
-They can fall, drones fly.

-Wouldn't be able to heal you in any way.
-Only the wolf could realistically hurt a Zed.

I'm sure I can come out with a couple more, but i already made my point

 

Spoiler

8 minutes ago, Mechanimal said:

Drone assessment from a roboticist:
(most of my bots are next-gen/cutting-edge, R&D, and usually ruggedized for outside and hazardous environments. Also space, sometimes. There is a big difference between these and consumer or factory robots. Like, huge dif.)

Forgivable:

- Battery life: The only drones that can fly that long and reliably are tethered, however I have seen crazy thin tethers for power. Regardless making this realistic would suck. Plus long-life, solid state, batteries and super caps do exist, and more are always on the way, so it's not a big stretch or immersion breaking to just have it fly with no worries. I would have recommended it the way they have it for gameplay reasons.

- Talking: Well, put simply, this AI is in it's own native territory. Plus it plays from a finite set of pre-recorded responses, and thus is just as simple as AI going back decades. Easy pass. In fact if they managed some kind of highly interactive customized AI system where you could wax poetic and talk philosophy I'd be impressed, maybe.

- Navigation: Sure, and no it does not require a ton of fancy sensors. Even the Tesla cars use little more than their cameras, which is impressive tbh. I have worked on many bots with fancy lasers, sonar, and more. It often tends to be more of a burden than an advantage, so this bot having only cams is a definite thumbs up. As for navigation AI and whatnot, again sure I'll buy it. Plus what they are dealing with for real now to get it working is not all that different, in ways, very dif in others, but it's believable.. if/when they get it working anyway;)

- Storage: Hard to criticize while standing next to it with 500 reinforced concrete blocks in my pocket, taking up a single slot at that. But they did help it feel more capable by putting large bladed fans. It would need more IRL, but it's enough for a pass in a video game. Plus they could have a double motor/blade set up in each, that would help.) If I changed anything here I would mainly add a 3rd blade/housing and make sure they are all doubled up. If a thing like this existed IRL it would likely have 6, 8 or more rotors. 

Um, no.. but fine ok whatev:

- 2x fully articulated arms: Ha, hahahhaha, nope! This is by far where most sci-fi designs fail, hard. This and legs, anything articulated. At most I would put a 2 axis pan/tilt joint, and then mount whatever onto that. I am working on a 6 axis arm right now and there is no @%$*#!ing way, like all kinds of no for those arms. People tend to think all you need is a joint, like a pivot point, and you're good to go... ffs I wish. Motor, transmission, torque sensor, position sensor, and "transmissions" can get all kinds of whacky with belts, weird-@%$*#! gear setups and linkages, and so on. Plus wiring through all that is so difficult most give up and it all just hangs out, I fight this irl, constantly. Anyway, since this principle is SO poorly understood in sci-fi games and film, exhaustively so, I tend to give up and just say "ok, whatever", and keep playing with my eyes half rolled. Fix it or leave, I consider this a personal nitpick, few to none would notice or care tbh. But you'd get major thumbs up from anyone whose even toyed with robotics irl.

Needs work fo sure:

- Healing and Attacking: Not done yet, so I'll wait, but please no magic flying symbols or heal rays, etc. Slap a shocker, like the handheld one, on a pan/tilt on one side, and I dunno, have it hold a syringe or pull out a bandage, on the healy side, make a bandage noise, no magical floating healy fog or whatever, please. Just having them do this, mainly the healing, is a stretch enough, but works for a game, so ok. Just think you CAN pull this off in a much more believable/passable way. The shocky thing should just have a bolt or something, not some kind of plasma ray or whatever tf that was. Again I know they're placeholders, we'll see what ends up in game.

Conclusion: Yes, please, gimme.

 

The name MechAnimal is explained now. 

That was an amazing post... didn't knew you were an engineer!

[n2n1]

If we talk about realism, in any case - You will not be able to create such a thing in that situation. You just can't. Whatever you're trying to prove. 

 

But this is not a problem.... - a lot is allowed in games for the sake of gameplay. I believe that there are no problems with this at all. If you need a drone - it can be in spite of logical arguments. No matter how it is justified, if it is good in the gameplay - you can create any absurdity in the game, as long as the game does not suffer from it.

 

But with this drone - it's not necessary. No need for gameplay. And so this absurdity climbs out and shows only its negative characteristic.

[Trankitas]

2 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

If we talk about realism - in any case: You will not be able to create such a thing in that situation. You just can't.

Whatever you're trying to prove. 

But this is not a problem - a lot is allowed in games for the sake of gameplay. I believe that there are no problems with this at all. If you need a drone - it can be in spite of logical arguments. No matter how it is justified, if it is good in the gameplay - you can create any absurdity in the game, as long as the game does not suffer from it.

Yeah, i'm not talking about realism at all. I said "there is a couple of DESIGN flaws". Maybe @Mechanimal can answer the question if you could realistically build one in the apocalypse

[n2n1]

29 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

There's a couple of design flaws in your idea.
Whats is the drone? The most powerful range weapon for INT players.

Cat or wolf:

-Don't provide ranged attacks

-Don't provide a explanation of why would a INT player be able to have them and everyone else don't.

-Can't be crafted

-Don't provide the Tier 3 special weapon that INT tree needs
-They can fall, drones fly.

-Wouldn't be able to heal you in any way.
-Only the wolf could realistically hurt a Zed.

I'm sure I can come out with a couple more, but i already made my point

 

Yes, of course... but why do you need it?

can't you kill a zombie or heal yourself?

 

9 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

Yeah, i'm not talking about realism at all. I said "there is a couple of DESIGN flaws". Maybe @Mechanimal can answer the question if you could realistically build one in the apocalypse

if we were in the Apocalypse , we wouldn't be doing this nonsense, even if we could theoretically make a drone. Well, isn't it?  ...but this is a different issue.

Here i talk only about the feasibility of it in a particular game. And it wouldn't be a problem if it just didn't ruin atmosphere... what goes next.

What "fun" will come up next?  I hate to see left-wing streamers ridicule my favorite game. But they are right...

[Trankitas]

29 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

 

Yes, of course... but why do you need it?

can't you kill a zombie or heal yourself?

Can't you kill a zombie with the fists? Why do you need guns?
Can't you heal with the body's natural healing abilities? Why do you need bandages?

Can't you cook meat by putting it on a metal sheet on a sunny day? Why do you need a campfire?
 

Humans are known for trying to make their life easier.

[n2n1]

14 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

Can't you kill a zombie with the fists? Why do you need guns?
Can't you heal with the body's natural healing abilities? Why do you need bandages?

Can't you cook meat by putting it on a metal sheet on a sunny day? We do you need a campfire?
 

Humans are known for trying to make their life easier.

Need to keep a balance between difficulties and solutions .

Well, then following your path - why you play when you reach 6 tier? A drone will play in your place.

 

[Trankitas]

11 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

Need to keep a balance between difficulties and interest.

Well, then following your path - you should stop playing when you reach 6 tier, instead of you will play a drone?

Yes, bye.

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, MajorMunchy said:

I am suprised. He DID claim every waepon has a tier 1-3...so stun baton is  an exception? or is it the red headed step child?

probably a WIP

[MechanicalLens]

3 hours ago, madmole said:

5 isn't enough?

It's not that. I'm more so concerned about their what I assume to be unscripted distribution in RWG. It would be unfortunate if for example 4/5 of your traders happened to be in the forest biome and 1 was in the heart of the desert, and you wanted to settle in the burnt biome.

[Adam the Waster]

14 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

Can't you kill a zombie with the fists? Why do you need guns?
Can't you heal with the body's natural healing abilities? Why do you need bandages?

Can't you cook meat by putting it on a metal sheet on a sunny day? We do you need a campfire?
 

Can't you Breath air? why do you need Gas mask? lol

jk lol

[MechanicalLens]

3 hours ago, madmole said:

They can provide endless sustenance without effort so no they need to be locked behind something. They are also a key ingredient to some other power foods.

Awesome, I'm glad it has become your main hobby. So few games can do that these days, for me at least.

And I'm glad that 7D2D is a thing in this world.  Other than 7D2D and maybe Terraria, I suppose I wouldn't even consider myself much of a gamer, other than a few RTS and story-based games I play on and off, particularly the former since I procrastinate with the latter.

[Laz Man]

32 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

If we talk about realism, in any case - You will not be able to create such a thing in that situation. You just can't. Whatever you're trying to prove. 

 

But this is not a problem.... - a lot is allowed in games for the sake of gameplay. I believe that there are no problems with this at all. If you need a drone - it can be in spite of logical arguments. No matter how it is justified, if it is good in the gameplay - you can create any absurdity in the game, as long as the game does not suffer from it.

 

But with this drone - it's not necessary. No need for gameplay. And so this absurdity climbs out and shows only its negative characteristic.

Yeah, heard you the first time but try to keep an open mind to the concept at least.  Its essentially a companion.  If they get it working right, it adds more depth.  Just would need balancing and possibly something to make it more immersive.

[Mechanimal]

26 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

Yeah, i'm not talking about realism at all. I said "there is a couple of DESIGN flaws". Maybe @Mechanimal can answer the question if you could realistically build one in the apocalypse

Well more than enough exist now, find one of those, could find many, around this size and more, if this apocalypse happened today. The realm of drones has exploded over the past 20 years, there are TONS of them now, all kinds of anatomies and abilities. This drone may have been a stretch in the 80's, but not now, trust me I know. A drone like this, with a few minor exceptions(see my too-long post about it), would actually be a realistic thing to find and/or build. 

[n2n1]

6 minutes ago, Trankitas said:

Yes, bye.

Aaaahhh ;) .....so you don't know  ......I will tell you a secret, friend  - that you can play further. It was possible before, when there were no drones

[Trankitas]

10 minutes ago, Mechanimal said:

Well more than enough exist now, find one of those, could find many, around this size and more, if this apocalypse happened today. The realm of drones has exploded over the past 20 years, there are TONS of them now, all kinds of anatomies and abilities. This drone may have been a stretch in the 80's, but not now, trust me I know. A drone like this, with a few minor exceptions(see my too-long post about it), would actually be a realistic thing to find and/or build. 

Thanks Mech. That settles it i guess

[madmole]

1 hour ago, Guppys Fur said:

I honestly believe its comparable to cell phones.

In the 90s it was a rare thing, some even thought it was a Trend thing and would go away again. And over time it reached the whole world and everyone uses a smartphone daylie and that for multiple Purposes like calls, gaming, Source of info etc.

 

Same might apply with Drones in the next 10-20 years.

Robots and tech to enhance our lives will definitely continue. Basically Alexa with an arm and way to move around and do even more for you should happen in our lifetimes. I already have a roomba that vacuums, and a little robot that cleans the pool for me, this is nearly a reality.

[Kosmic Kerman]

10 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

It's not that. I'm more so concerned about their what I assume to be unscripted distribution in RWG. It would be unfortunate if for example 4/5 of your traders happened to be in the forest biome and 1 was in the heart of the desert, and you wanted to settle in the burnt biome.

Lathan spoke about the find Trader quests on the last stream. He said that the number of trader quests was linked to the number of Quest Tiers NOT the number of traders in RWG. He thought that there would still be more than 5 traders in RWG but he wasn't 100% certain.

[Mechanimal]

As far as whether a drone could be realistically built? Yes, that is an easy one to settle.

In fact you could just find one of like hundreds of irl models I can think of off the top of my head that exist for real, now, in much higher numbers than you could guess. The population, and variety, explosion of drones is akin to the Cambrian Explosion, it's nuts, and I have followed this tech evolution obsessively most of my life(44 sun revs thus far).

[madmole]

1 hour ago, Aldranon said:

You a badass, so that doesn't count. 

To be honest, I'm a bit nervous about my first play though of A19.  Its been a LONG time since I felt that feeling!

Blunderbuss is GOOD... but that long reload makes you very vulnerable when there are 2 plus zombies in close quarters. Stamina is so weak early game you can't do a lot of power attacks... its pretty good on Warrior now, I'm struggling. Day 4 no cooking pot yet, so I still can't craft glue for my forge to make iron tools.

[n2n1]

5 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Yeah, heard you the first time but try to keep an open mind to the concept at least.  Its essentially a companion.  If they get it working right, it adds more depth.  Just would need balancing and possibly something to make it more immersive.

No, no, it's not a companion. This is a first aid kit with a propeller and a loot bag. Companion - this is something like a dog, that can be petted as in "Blair witch".

(I love cats)

[madmole]

45 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

If we talk about realism, in any case - You will not be able to create such a thing in that situation. You just can't. Whatever you're trying to prove. 

 

But this is not a problem.... - a lot is allowed in games for the sake of gameplay. I believe that there are no problems with this at all. If you need a drone - it can be in spite of logical arguments. No matter how it is justified, if it is good in the gameplay - you can create any absurdity in the game, as long as the game does not suffer from it.

 

But with this drone - it's not necessary. No need for gameplay. And so this absurdity climbs out and shows only its negative characteristic.

The last I checked I didn't have enough inventory space, so a robotic pack mule will be much welcomed.

[Mechanimal]

2 minutes ago, madmole said:

Robots and tech to enhance our lives will definitely continue. Basically Alexa with an arm and way to move around and do even more for you should happen in our lifetimes. I already have a roomba that vacuums, and a little robot that cleans the pool for me, this is nearly a reality.

Ah, Roomba, the only robobusiness success story, year after year, for what seemed like forever... but that was in the mid 2000s. And that is consumer level, a very important aspect. Outside of consumer stuff robots are much, much, more capable and hard-core.

Drones are a special niche, and aside from factory arms is one of the largest and most diverse niches of robot that exist, functionally, in high numbers, all over the planet. Now. They honestly chose one of the most believable options available for robotics.